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Carnivine (Analysis) (GP 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by SilentVerse, Jan 31, 2012.

  1. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Why do I keep doing such outclassed mons.

    [​IMG]

    Carnivine

    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to see why Carnivine is, well, never used. Though he may seem decent at first glance, with a movepool including Swords Dance, Power Whip, and Sleep Powder, as well as a decent Attack stat to back it up, Carnivine has some key flaws which toss him into the depths of NU. An utterly pathetic Speed stat ensures that Carnivine will never sweep and limits him to wallbreaking, and Carnivine's offensive stats aren't quite good enough for that either. Furthermore, Carnivine has a difficult time differentiating himself from his fellow Grass-types; access to both STAB Power Whip and Sleep Powder is something to brag about, but other Grass-types such as Leafeon, Victreebel, and Torterra all have much better stats and are generally better; Leafeon has that blistering Speed and a significantly better Defense stat, Victreebel also has better Speed in addition to a Poison typing and similar movepool, and Torterra possesses much better defenses and an awesome secondary Ground typing. Frankly, Carnivine's only advantage over these Pokemon is his access to Sleep Powder and Levitate, which admittedly do make it easier for him to set up, but are not enough to really make Carnivine a premier choice. That being said, Carnivine is not truly bad, as a Swords Dance-boosted Power Whip is nothing to laugh about, but in the end, Carnivine is so outclassed in most cases that there is almost no reason to use him over other, mostly superior Grass-types. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set utilizes Carnivine's few redeeming traits—access to Sleep Powder and his ability, Levitate—over Leafeon and other physical Grass-types to set up and attempt to sweep. Though Carnivine is slow and not very powerful, he has just enough Speed to beat most common walls in the NU metagame, and after a Swords Dance, he hits extremely hard with STAB Power Whip. In fact, because of Power Whip, Carnivine actually hits slightly harder than Leafeon overall, though he must deal with Power Whip's unreliable accuracy. Though Carnivine is not that bulky, Levitate and Sleep Powder make it much easier to set up, and Sleep Powder ensures that Carnivine will be able to do something most of the time, even if it is just putting a Pokemon to sleep. Levitate also prevents Carnivine from being worn down too quickly from Spikes and Toxic Spikes. To round off the set, Return gives Carnivine a strong coverage move to hit Pokemon who resist Grass-type moves, and since Carnivine lacks a large movepool, it really is his best option to do so. However, Crunch can be used to hit Misdreavus and Haunter harder, though Return hits harder most of the time; Substitute can be used instead of Return if you feel that Return isn't doing enough.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment and a Jolly nature, Carnivine actually outspeeds a decent amount of Pokemon—everything up to minimum Speed Rotom formes. Alternatively, an Adamant nature is viable to give Carnivine some much-needed power; in this case, maximum Speed is unnecessary for the most part, so feel free to use a spread of 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe to allow Carnivine to outspeed minimum Speed base 65s, including Alomomola and Flareon, while giving him some extra bulk. A Life Orb is the recommended item, as Carnivine really needs the power it provides, but Leftovers gives Carnivine more longevity, which complements Levitate nicely.</p>

    <p>Carnivine tends to have major issues with walls such as Weezing, physically defensive Grass- and Fire-types, and Steel-types in general. Because of this, Magmortar makes a good partner, as he can deal with all of these Pokemon with his strong STAB Fire Blasts and exceptional coverage. Carnivine also happens to work well with Leafeon, oddly enough; Carnivine lures out similar counters to Leafeon and can put them to sleep, which makes it substantially easier for Leafeon to sweep. Carnivine also appreciates entry hazard support, as it allows him to obtain some OHKOes and 2HKOes he wouldn't normally be able to achieve, making it much easier for him to do damage to the opposing team. For example, with Stealth Rock on the field, Carnivine has a good chance of 2HKOing standard Vileplume with Return after a Swords Dance, while without Stealth Rock, he can't do so. Golem and Regirock are excellent choices to set up Stealth Rock, as they can also switch into the likes of Braviary and Swellow who may attempt to switch into Carnivine and set up. Unfortunately, NU lacks viable Spikes users, but Garbodor deserves a mention for his ability to set up both Toxic Spikes and Spikes, both of which Carnivine appreciates; moreover, unlike Cacturne, Garbodor does not share a Grass typing with Carnivine, giving him arguably better synergy alongside Carnivine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Grass-types are not known for their wide movepools, and Carnivine is no exception. However, Carnivine does have other somewhat viable options he can potentially use. He has the option of going specially based or mixed with his good base 90 Special Attack stat, but his only viable special moves are Giga Drain and Hidden Power; he does get Growth to help him with mixed attacking, though. Carnivine also has a few alternative physical attacks in Seed Bomb and Secret Power. Seed Bomb is a more reliable, albeit weaker, STAB move than Power Whip, while Secret Power has the potential to paralyze at the cost of power. Despite his poor defensive stats, Carnivine actually has quite a few decent support moves at his disposal; Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Knock Off are all great options, making a support set a viable choice, though do note that Carnivine's poor defensive stats will make this set mediocre at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Carnivine is mostly threatening due to Sleep Powder; once Sleep Clause is activated, Carnivine is usually easy to deal with. To deal with Sleep Powder, using a Pokemon with Sleep Talk on your team is advised, as it can absorb the sleep without worry. Alternatively, using a bulky Pokemon to take the sleep is also a decent strategy, as it will usually be bulky enough to outlive the sleep turns. Once Sleep Powder has been used, Carnivine becomes much easier to beat. Faster Fire- and Flying-types do a wonderful job of revenge killing Carnivine, and they fear nothing bar a +2 Return; Swellow, Braviary, Magmortar, and Rapidash are excellent examples of this. Furthermore, Carnivine is not particularly hard to wall, and defensive Grass-, Fire-, Poison-, and Steel-types such as Tangela, Vileplume, Amoonguss, Torkoal, Lampent, and Weezing can easily sponge his attacks. All of these Pokemon bar Tangela are also able to retaliate with a super effective STAB move, which will seriously maim Carnivine. Carnivine's low Speed and poor defenses are his main weaknesses; just continuously putting pressure on him and preventing him from setting up a Swords Dance will make it difficult for him to do much.</p>
  2. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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    What exactly is the second set... doing? It's pretty outclassed by Cacturne, which can set up Spikes and use Sub + Sucker Punch (or Focus Punch). Idk I feel like if I'm going to be using Carnivine, I'd use SD 100% of the time. In addition, you already mention Sub in the AC of the first set, you could just add a line that says "You can use Sub over SD but then you don't get a lot of power" or something, and add the EV spread to the AC.

    Also mention the birds in Checks/Counters.
  3. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Ok, changes made. The main reason I dumped the Substitute set there was for double status, which was ok when I used it, but I'll agree that it isn't great enough or different enough to deserve it's own set and could easily just go into AC.
  4. tennisace

    tennisace
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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  5. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Well done. Carnivine so cute!!

    [​IMG]

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  6. Steamroll

    Steamroll resident zombie
    is a Smogon IRC AOp Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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  7. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Yeah, this took a while, but this is ready for GP checks. Writer's block sucks when you have deadlines to meet.
  8. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    MINE komodo don't ninja me please D:
    c/p (open)
    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to see why Carnivine is, well, never used. Though he may seem decent at first glance, with a movepool including Swords Dance, Power Whip, and Sleep Powder, as well as a decent Attack stat to back it up, Carnivine has some key flaws which toss him into the depths of NU. An utterly pathetic Speed stat ensures that Carnivine will never sweep and limits him to wallbreaking, and Carnivine's offensive stats aren't quite good enough for that either. Furthermore, Carnivine has a difficult time differentiating himself from his fellow Grass-types; access to both STAB Power Whip and Sleep Powder is something to brag about, but other Grass-types such as Leafeon, Victreebel, and Torterra all have much better stats and are generally better; Leafeon has that blistering Speed and a significantly better Defense stat, Victreebel also has better Speed in addition to a Poiton typing and similar movepool, and Torterra possesses much better defenses and an awesome secondary Ground typing. Frankly, Carnivine's only advantages over these Pokemon are his access to Sleep Powder and Levitate, which admittedly do make it somewhat easier for him to set up, but are not enough to really make Carnivine a premier choice. That being said, Carnivine is not truly bad, since a Swords Dance-boosted Power Whip is nothing to laugh about, but in the end, Carnivine is just so outclassed in most cases that there is almost no reason to use him over other, mostly superior Grass-types. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set utilizes Carnivine's few redeeming traits—access to Sleep Powder and his ability, Levitate—over Leafeon and other physical Grass-types to set up and attempt to sweep. Though Carnivine is slow and not very powerful, Carnivine has just enough Speed to beat most common walls in the NU metagame, and after a Swords Dance, he hits extremely hard with STAB Power Whip. In fact, because of Power Whip, Carnivine actually hits slightly harder than Leafeon overall, though he must deal with Power Whip's unreliable accuracy. Though Carnivine is not that bulky, Levitate and Sleep Powder make it much easier to set up, and Sleep Powder ensures that Carnivine will be able to do something most of the time, even if it is just putting a Pokemon to sleep. Levitate also prevents Carnivine from being worn down too quickly from Spikes and Toxic Spikes. To round off the set, Return is used to give Carnivine a strong coverage move to hit Pokemon who resist Grass-type moves with, and since Carnivine lacks a large movepool, it really is his best option to do so. However, Crunch can be used to hit Misdreavus and Haunter harder, though Return hits harder most of the time; Substitute can be used instead of Return if you feel that Return isn't doing enough.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment and a Jolly nature, Carnivine actually outspeeds a decent amount of Pokemon—everything up to minimum Speed Rotom formes. Alternatively, an Adamant nature is viable to give Carnivine some much-needed power; in this case, max Speed is unnecessary for the most part, so feel free to use a spread of 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe to just allow Carnivine to outspeed minimum Speed base 65s <examples> and give him some excess bulk. A Life Orb is the recommended item, as Carnivine really needs the power it provides, but Leftovers gives Carnivine more longevity, which complements Levitate nicely.</p>

    <p>Carnivine tends to have major issues with walls such as Weezing, physically defensive Grass- and Fire-types, and Steel-types in general. Because of this, Magmortar makes a good partner, as he can deal with all of these Pokemon with his strong STAB Fire Blasts and exceptional coverage. Carnivine also happens to work well with Leafeon, oddly enough; Carnivine lures out similar counters to Leafeon and can put them to sleep, which makes it substantially easier for Leafeon to sweep. Carnivine also appreciates entry hazard support, as they allow him to obtain some OHKOes and 2HKOes he wouldn't normally be able to achieve <examples>, making it much easier for Carnivine to do damage to the opposing team. Golem and Regirock are excellent choices to set up Stealth Rock, as they can also switch into the likes of Braviary and Swellow who may attempt to switch into Carnivine and set up. Unfortunately, NU lacks viable Spike users, but Garbodor deserves a mention for his ability to set up both Toxic Spikes and Spikes, both of which Carnivine appreciates; moreover, unlike Cacturne, Garbodor does not share a Grass typing with Carnivine, giving him arguably better synergy alongside Carnivine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Grass-types are not known for their wide movepools, and Carnivine is no exception. However, Carnivine does at least have some other somewhat viable options he can potentially use. He has the option of going specially based or mixed with Carnivine's good base 90 Special Attack stat, but his only viable special moves are Giga Drain and Hidden Power; he does get Growth to help him with mixed attacking, though. Carnivine also has a few alternative physical attacks in Seed Bomb and Secret Power. Seed Bomb is a more reliable, albeit weaker, STAB than Power Whip, while Secret Power has the potential to paralyze at the cost of power. Despite his poor defensive stats, Carnivine actually has quite a few decent support moves at his disposal; Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Knock Off are all great options, making a support set a viable choice, though do note that Carnivine's poor defensive stats will make this set mediocre at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Carnivine is mostly threatening due to Sleep Powder; once Sleep Clause is activated, Carnivine is usually easy to deal with. To deal with Sleep Powder, using a Sleep Talk user on your team is advised, since it can absorb the sleep without worry. Alternatively, using a bulky Pokemon to take the sleep is also a decent strategy, since they will usually be bulky enough to outlive the sleep turns. Once Sleep Powder has been used, Carnivine becomes much easier to beat. Faster Fire- and Flying-types do a wonderful job of revenge killing Carnivine, and they fear nothing bar a +2 Return; Swellow, Braviary, Magmortar, and Rapidash are excellent examples of this. Furthermore, Carnivine is not particularly hard to wall either, and defensive Grass-, Fire-, Poison-, and Steel-types such as Tangela, Vileplume, Amoonguss, Torkoal, Lampent, and Weezing can easily sponge his attacks. All of these Pokemon bar Tangela are also able to retaliate with a super effective STAB move, which will seriously maim Carnivine. Carnivine's low Speed and poor defenses are his main weaknesses; just continuously putting pressure on him and preventing him from setting up a Swords Dance will make it difficult for him to do much.</p>

    [​IMG]

    GP [1/2]

    There are two parts (bolded in the c/p version) that would be much stronger if you could provide examples. Other than that, everything is great!
  9. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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    Alright, thanks! This should now be ready for GP check #2.
  10. Stalfos

    Stalfos
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    [​IMG]

    (placeholder)

    Show Hide

    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to see why Carnivine is, well, never used. Though he may seem decent at first glance, with a movepool including Swords Dance, Power Whip, and Sleep Powder, as well as a decent Attack stat to back it up, Carnivine has some key flaws which toss him into the depths of NU. An utterly pathetic Speed stat ensures that Carnivine will never sweep and limits him to wallbreaking, and Carnivine's offensive stats aren't quite good enough for that either. Furthermore, Carnivine has a difficult time differentiating himself from his fellow Grass-types; access to both STAB Power Whip and Sleep Powder is something to brag about, but other Grass-types such as Leafeon, Victreebel, and Torterra all have much better stats and are generally better; Leafeon has that blistering Speed and a significantly better Defense stat, Victreebel also has better Speed in addition to a Poitson typing and similar movepool, and Torterra possesses much better defenses and an awesome secondary Ground typing. Frankly, Carnivine's only advantages over these Pokemon areis his access to Sleep Powder and Levitate, which admittedly do make it somewhat easier for him to set up, but are not enough to really make Carnivine a premier choice. That being said, Carnivine is not truly bad, sinceas a Swords Dance-boosted Power Whip is nothing to laugh about, but in the end, Carnivine is just so outclassed in most cases that there is almost no reason to use him over other, mostly superior Grass-types. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set utilizes Carnivine's few redeeming traits—access to Sleep Powder and his ability, Levitate—over Leafeon and other physical Grass-types to set up and attempt to sweep. Though Carnivine is slow and not very powerful, Carnivinhe has just enough Speed to beat most common walls in the NU metagame, and after a Swords Dance, he hits extremely hard with STAB Power Whip. In fact, because of Power Whip, Carnivine actually hits slightly harder than Leafeon overall, though he must deal with Power Whip's unreliable accuracy. Though Carnivine is not that bulky, Levitate and Sleep Powder make it much easier to set up, and Sleep Powder ensures that Carnivine will be able to do something most of the time, even if it is just putting a Pokemon to sleep. Levitate also prevents Carnivine from being worn down too quickly from Spikes and Toxic Spikes. To round off the set, Return is used to gives Carnivine a strong coverage move to hit Pokemon who resist Grass-type moves with, and since Carnivine lacks a large movepool, it really is his best option to do so. However, Crunch can be used to hit Misdreavus and Haunter harder, though Return hits harder most of the time; Substitute can be used instead of Return if you feel that Return isn't doing enough.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment and a Jolly nature, Carnivine actually outspeeds a decent amount of Pokemon—everything up to minimum Speed Rotom formes. Alternatively, an Adamant nature is viable to give Carnivine some much-needed power; in this case, maximum Speed is unnecessary for the most part, so feel free to use a spread of 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe to just allow Carnivine to outspeed minimum Speed base 65s, including Alomomola and Flareon, while giving him some excesstra bulk. A Life Orb is the recommended item, as Carnivine really needs the power it provides, but Leftovers gives Carnivine more longevity, which complements Levitate nicely.</p>

    <p>Carnivine tends to have major issues with walls such as Weezing, physically defensive Grass- and Fire-types, and Steel-types in general. Because of this, Magmortar makes a good partner, as he can deal with all of these Pokemon with his strong STAB Fire Blasts and exceptional coverage. Carnivine also happens to work well with Leafeon, oddly enough; Carnivine lures out similar counters to Leafeon and can put them to sleep, which makes it substantially easier for Leafeon to sweep. Carnivine also appreciates entry hazard support, as theyit allows him to obtain some OHKOes and 2HKOes he wouldn't normally be able to achieve, making it much easier for Carnivinehim to do damage to the opposing team. For example, with Stealth Rock on the field, Carnivine has a good chance of 2HKOing standard Vileplume with Return after a Swords Dance, while without Stealth Rock, he can't do so. Golem and Regirock are excellent choices to set up Stealth Rock, as they can also switch into the likes of Braviary and Swellow who may attempt to switch into Carnivine and set up. Unfortunately, NU lacks viable Spikes users, but Garbodor deserves a mention for his ability to set up both Toxic Spikes and Spikes, both of which Carnivine appreciates; moreover, unlike Cacturne, Garbodor does not share a Grass typing with Carnivine, giving him arguably better synergy alongside Carnivine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Grass-types are not known for their wide movepools, and Carnivine is no exception. However, Carnivine does at least have somhave other somewhat viable options he can potentially use. He has the option of going specially based or mixed with Carnivine'his good base 90 Special Attack stat, but his only viable special moves are Giga Drain and Hidden Power; he does get Growth to help him with mixed attacking, though. Carnivine also has a few alternative physical attacks in Seed Bomb and Secret Power. Seed Bomb is a more reliable, albeit weaker, STAB move than Power Whip, while Secret Power has the potential to paralyze at the cost of power. Despite his poor defensive stats, Carnivine actually has quite a few decent support moves at his disposal; Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Knock Off are all great options, making a support set a viable choice, though do note that Carnivine's poor defensive stats will make this set mediocre at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Carnivine is mostly threatening due to Sleep Powder; once Sleep Clause is activated, Carnivine is usually easy to deal with. To deal with Sleep Powder, using a Pokemon with Sleep Talk user on your team is advised, sinceas it can absorb the sleep without worry. Alternatively, using a bulky Pokemon to take the sleep is also a decent strategy, since theyas it will usually be bulky enough to outlive the sleep turns. Once Sleep Powder has been used, Carnivine becomes much easier to beat. Faster Fire- and Flying-types do a wonderful job of revenge killing Carnivine, and they fear nothing bar a +2 Return; Swellow, Braviary, Magmortar, and Rapidash are excellent examples of this. Furthermore, Carnivine is not particularly hard to wall either, and defensive Grass-, Fire-, Poison-, and Steel-types such as Tangela, Vileplume, Amoonguss, Torkoal, Lampent, and Weezing can easily sponge his attacks. All of these Pokemon bar Tangela are also able to retaliate with a super effective STAB move, which will seriously maim Carnivine. Carnivine's low Speed and poor defenses are his main weaknesses; just continuously putting pressure on him and preventing him from setting up a Swords Dance will make it difficult for him to do much.</p>


    c/pable (open)

    [Overview]

    <p>It's not difficult to see why Carnivine is, well, never used. Though he may seem decent at first glance, with a movepool including Swords Dance, Power Whip, and Sleep Powder, as well as a decent Attack stat to back it up, Carnivine has some key flaws which toss him into the depths of NU. An utterly pathetic Speed stat ensures that Carnivine will never sweep and limits him to wallbreaking, and Carnivine's offensive stats aren't quite good enough for that either. Furthermore, Carnivine has a difficult time differentiating himself from his fellow Grass-types; access to both STAB Power Whip and Sleep Powder is something to brag about, but other Grass-types such as Leafeon, Victreebel, and Torterra all have much better stats and are generally better; Leafeon has that blistering Speed and a significantly better Defense stat, Victreebel also has better Speed in addition to a Poison typing and similar movepool, and Torterra possesses much better defenses and an awesome secondary Ground typing. Frankly, Carnivine's only advantage over these Pokemon is his access to Sleep Powder and Levitate, which admittedly do make it easier for him to set up, but are not enough to really make Carnivine a premier choice. That being said, Carnivine is not truly bad, as a Swords Dance-boosted Power Whip is nothing to laugh about, but in the end, Carnivine is so outclassed in most cases that there is almost no reason to use him over other, mostly superior Grass-types. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Swords Dance
    move 1: Swords Dance
    move 2: Power Whip
    move 3: Return
    move 4: Sleep Powder
    item: Life Orb / Leftovers
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set utilizes Carnivine's few redeeming traits—access to Sleep Powder and his ability, Levitate—over Leafeon and other physical Grass-types to set up and attempt to sweep. Though Carnivine is slow and not very powerful, he has just enough Speed to beat most common walls in the NU metagame, and after a Swords Dance, he hits extremely hard with STAB Power Whip. In fact, because of Power Whip, Carnivine actually hits slightly harder than Leafeon overall, though he must deal with Power Whip's unreliable accuracy. Though Carnivine is not that bulky, Levitate and Sleep Powder make it much easier to set up, and Sleep Powder ensures that Carnivine will be able to do something most of the time, even if it is just putting a Pokemon to sleep. Levitate also prevents Carnivine from being worn down too quickly from Spikes and Toxic Spikes. To round off the set, Return gives Carnivine a strong coverage move to hit Pokemon who resist Grass-type moves, and since Carnivine lacks a large movepool, it really is his best option to do so. However, Crunch can be used to hit Misdreavus and Haunter harder, though Return hits harder most of the time; Substitute can be used instead of Return if you feel that Return isn't doing enough.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With maximum Speed investment and a Jolly nature, Carnivine actually outspeeds a decent amount of Pokemon—everything up to minimum Speed Rotom formes. Alternatively, an Adamant nature is viable to give Carnivine some much-needed power; in this case, maximum Speed is unnecessary for the most part, so feel free to use a spread of 60 HP / 252 Atk / 196 Spe to allow Carnivine to outspeed minimum Speed base 65s, including Alomomola and Flareon, while giving him some extra bulk. A Life Orb is the recommended item, as Carnivine really needs the power it provides, but Leftovers gives Carnivine more longevity, which complements Levitate nicely.</p>

    <p>Carnivine tends to have major issues with walls such as Weezing, physically defensive Grass- and Fire-types, and Steel-types in general. Because of this, Magmortar makes a good partner, as he can deal with all of these Pokemon with his strong STAB Fire Blasts and exceptional coverage. Carnivine also happens to work well with Leafeon, oddly enough; Carnivine lures out similar counters to Leafeon and can put them to sleep, which makes it substantially easier for Leafeon to sweep. Carnivine also appreciates entry hazard support, as it allows him to obtain some OHKOes and 2HKOes he wouldn't normally be able to achieve, making it much easier for him to do damage to the opposing team. For example, with Stealth Rock on the field, Carnivine has a good chance of 2HKOing standard Vileplume with Return after a Swords Dance, while without Stealth Rock, he can't do so. Golem and Regirock are excellent choices to set up Stealth Rock, as they can also switch into the likes of Braviary and Swellow who may attempt to switch into Carnivine and set up. Unfortunately, NU lacks viable Spikes users, but Garbodor deserves a mention for his ability to set up both Toxic Spikes and Spikes, both of which Carnivine appreciates; moreover, unlike Cacturne, Garbodor does not share a Grass typing with Carnivine, giving him arguably better synergy alongside Carnivine.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Unfortunately, Grass-types are not known for their wide movepools, and Carnivine is no exception. However, Carnivine does have other somewhat viable options he can potentially use. He has the option of going specially based or mixed with his good base 90 Special Attack stat, but his only viable special moves are Giga Drain and Hidden Power; he does get Growth to help him with mixed attacking, though. Carnivine also has a few alternative physical attacks in Seed Bomb and Secret Power. Seed Bomb is a more reliable, albeit weaker, STAB move than Power Whip, while Secret Power has the potential to paralyze at the cost of power. Despite his poor defensive stats, Carnivine actually has quite a few decent support moves at his disposal; Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Synthesis, and Knock Off are all great options, making a support set a viable choice, though do note that Carnivine's poor defensive stats will make this set mediocre at best.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Carnivine is mostly threatening due to Sleep Powder; once Sleep Clause is activated, Carnivine is usually easy to deal with. To deal with Sleep Powder, using a Pokemon with Sleep Talk on your team is advised, as it can absorb the sleep without worry. Alternatively, using a bulky Pokemon to take the sleep is also a decent strategy, as it will usually be bulky enough to outlive the sleep turns. Once Sleep Powder has been used, Carnivine becomes much easier to beat. Faster Fire- and Flying-types do a wonderful job of revenge killing Carnivine, and they fear nothing bar a +2 Return; Swellow, Braviary, Magmortar, and Rapidash are excellent examples of this. Furthermore, Carnivine is not particularly hard to wall, and defensive Grass-, Fire-, Poison-, and Steel-types such as Tangela, Vileplume, Amoonguss, Torkoal, Lampent, and Weezing can easily sponge his attacks. All of these Pokemon bar Tangela are also able to retaliate with a super effective STAB move, which will seriously maim Carnivine. Carnivine's low Speed and poor defenses are his main weaknesses; just continuously putting pressure on him and preventing him from setting up a Swords Dance will make it difficult for him to do much.</p>


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  11. SilentVerse

    SilentVerse Into the New World
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  12. Zebraiken

    Zebraiken is it true what they say, that words are weapons?
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    Looking over, shouldn't take long.

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