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Cawmodore (Analysis) [QC 2/3] Writing in Progress...

Discussion in 'Create-A-Pokémon Project' started by srk1214, Jan 26, 2014.

  1. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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    QC: 1/3 - PttP
    GP: 0/2

    I've copied the script format from the Malaconda analysis PttP did, to save some time later. Hopefully by spacing it out a bit, it's still readable for QC purposes.

    [​IMG]
    <h2>Overview</h2>

    <p>
    Pros:
    Great speed tier
    Quite powerful after BD
    Flying/Fighting great coverage + STAB priority
    Drain Punch even heals
    Unprepared teams more or less flat out lose
    To some degree can pick and choose its threats with its ability

    Cons:
    Can be tricky to set up
    Frail on the special side
    Even on physical side, still kinda frail because BD sacrifices 50%
    Often can be deadweight until late game
    </p>





    <script type="text/javascript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Fast Sweeper";
    set.move[1] = "Belly Drum";
    set.move[2] = ["Acrobatics", "Drill Peck"];
    set.move[3] = "Drain Punch";
    set.move[4] = "Bullet Punch";
    set.item = ["Flying Gem", "Sitrus Berry"];
    set.ability = ["Volt Absorb", "Intimidate"];
    set.nature = "Jolly";
    set.evs.HP = 4;
    set.evs.Atk = 252;
    set.evs.Spe = 252;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>
    By far most common sweeper set
    Flying Gem is preferred because it keeps Cawmodore from being handicapped until its item is used
    So it can be used more freely early on in the game, as opposed to solely late game
    It also makes it somewhat useable even without a Belly Drum
    AcroGem may be able to pick off a kill on something that didn't want to allow you to set up for free, such as a Conkeldurr
    Sitrus Berry is a more cautious option, better if you're not providing Cawmodore with lots of support as the sweeping centerpiece of the team, since it supports itself somewhat
    If using Sitrus Berry, consider Drill Peck over Acrobatics so that Cawmodore isn't totally useless prior to consuming its item.
    Volt Absorb is considerably better than Intimidate on this set, since it is very useful in guarding against Scarfed electric attacks or Thunder Wave
    No investment in bulk means Intimidate just doesn't benefit this Cawmodore set as much

    Teammates: Terrakion, CB Tyranitar, Wobbufett/Gothitelle, Memento, Screens</p>





    <script type="text/javascript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Sub Salac";
    set.move[1] = "Belly Drum";
    set.move[2] = "Substitute";
    set.move[3] = ["Acrobatics", "Drill Peck"];
    set.move[4] = "Drain Punch";
    set.item = "Salac Berry";
    set.ability = ["Intimidate", "Volt Absorb"];
    set.nature = "Jolly";
    set.evs.HP = 12;
    set.evs.Atk = 252;
    set.evs.SpD = 12;
    set.evs.Spe = 232;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>
    232 Speed EVs outspeed Choice Scarf Starmie after getting Salac
    12 HP EVs gives the necessary HP total that is divisible by 4, for easy Salac activiation, remaining 12 in SpD for most marginal benefit
    Rather than BD immediately, Sub on the predicted switch to their Scarfer
    Then BD, activate Salac, KO next turn
    If possible to KO with Drain Punch, you will heal up a lot of the 75% you sacrificed
    Sub is also very useful so you can set up on things like Ferrothorn
    You can use Intimidate and lure Ferrothorn into using T-Wave, which you instead block with a free sub
    Then BD and have +6 Atk, +1 Speed and a Sub up still, since Ferro can't break it
    (-1 4 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 12 HP / 0 Def Cawmodore: 41-48 (16.8 - 19.6%)
    Notably, Volt Absorb Cawmodore's sub is broken by Ferrothorn, so Intimidate really does provide an easier set up opportunity in this case.
    However, the lack of Bullet Punch is very noticeable at times, making sweeping harder
    Once it is weakened first, this set is revengeable by priority
    And it's not always easy to accurately predict your opponent's damage output so you can get Salac boost safely

    Teammates: Terrakion, Wobbufett/Gothitelle</p>





    <h2>Other Options</h2>

    <p>
    Lum/Chesto Rest
    Quick Attack
    Tailwind?
    There's really not much...
    </p>





    <h2>Checks and Counters</h2>

    <p>
    Unaware Quagsire
    Physically Defensive Skarmory because Whirlwind
    If Cawmodore is using Drill Peck rather than Acrobatics, Hippowdown because Whirlwind too
    Phys Def Zapdos
    Checking Cawmodore offensively will be easier
    Choice Scarf users that don't mind Bullet Punch
    Keldeo, Politoed, Rotom-W, Starmie, and Heatran (watch out for Rain!)
    Choice Scarf users need to fear SubSalac Cawmodore
    Don't let it set up freely in the first place
    Choice Scarf Garchomp's Earthquake or a Choice Scarf Latios at -2 after a Draco Meteor are liabilities
    Some bulky things like Ferrothorn, need to be prepared to deal with Cawmodore as it tries to set up
    More offensive teams in general will make it harder for Cawmodore to set up and sweep
    </p>
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  2. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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    And here's the playtest ladder results (open)
    [​IMG]
    Elevator Music is our analysis coordinator and will say who can provide QC.
  3. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
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  4. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    Sorry I looked at this once and couldn't find any thing wrong or left out so I just forgot about it. You did a really nice job covering all the aspects of Cawmodore including its checks and counters so props to you. However, I would like to see more of a mention as to what Pokemon pair well with Cawmodore. You could mention Pokemon weak to Gliscor such as Terrakion as a good teammate to Cawmodore as once Terrakion dies, Cawmodore has free set up on Gliscor. Pokemon that can lure in Rotom-W and KO it is also a great teammate, so Pokemon like max Speed Adamant Swords Dance Scizor can clear way for the birdie. Pokemon that can lure out Scarf Keldeo are also cool, but that's a bit harder to do than the previous examples. Just stuff like that would be good for the analysis.

    For the structure of the analysis, I would like to see SubSalac above the bulky Belly Drum because in my opinion, SubSalac was much more lethal due to the different way you have to react to it. Bulky Belly Drum wasn't even that good in my opinion, but that's another story.

    So yeah overall good job!
  5. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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    Thanks, based dodrio.

    I definitely appreciate the insight on teammates and agree that Terrakion is a great example. I don't know if I'll go with the Speedy Scizor, since it's kinda overly specific imo and it might just as easily bring in a Skarmory which Cawmodore won't be able to deal with. But I'll think of something to suggest for Rotom-W. I'll also make a special mention of something like CB Tar for Pursuit heavily denting Politoed, Starmie, and Rotom-W, though it's not helpful for Keldeo or Heatran.

    I was initially going to put SubSalac second too, but I felt it flowed better to list the two more "standard" Belly Drum sets first. I agree that Bulky Belly Drum isn't particularly good, but I included it for completeness. If someone has another suggestion on the placement of that set, or even an alternate EV spread that is more pleasing, I'm all ears. Would 252 Speed / 252 HP be worth it?
  6. HeaLnDeaL

    HeaLnDeaL
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    I don't know if I'm the best person to reply since I missed the actual Cawmodore playtest, but on the current CAP ladder I run 252 Speed / 252 HP Jolly Cawmodore (Belly Drum, Acrobatics, Drain Punch, and Bullet Punch with Sitrus Berry and Volt Absorb) and I've been #1 on the ladder for a fair bit. Of course, there are notable differences between the CAP ladder and the playtest... This iteration of EVs plays quite similarly to how your first set works, but set up I found to be easier (at the cost of power, of course).

    And more of as a sidenote, Blissey as a partner I found to be quite helpful. If you end up setting up a drum and have to retreat afterward, the wish support can be nice to get a second chance. Not to mention the off chance of Blissey using wish, immediately dying, you being able to bring Cawmodore in, drum, and get to full HP at the end of the turn. And to top it off, Blissey sponges the special attacks that Cawmodore fears.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2014
  7. Vryheid

    Vryheid fudge jelly

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    The CAP ladder does not play like Gen 5 does when dealing with Cawmodore. In CAP we have Cyclohm with Flamethrower or Aegislash to deal with it, in Gen 5 most people used rain boosted hits from the likes of Wash Rotom or Keldeo. Weather in general is a huge pain for Cawmodore in Gen 5, as suddenly 100% accurate moves like HP Fire and Surf can do the magic 75% damage they need to take it down after a Sitrus Berry/Belly Drum combo. Teams in the playtest tended to be overprepared for it, which is why these rain boosted attacks made it so frustrating to use at times. Also, a lot of random super bulky Pokemon like Vaporeon could tank a hit and just barely manage to KO Cawmodore thanks to the weather boost. Go figure.

    In terms of a straight up defensive counter, Quagsire (as already mentioned) is probably the best defensive counter in CAP, as it can get that Unaware boost and then try to burn Cawmodore with Scald. On a sun team Zapdos is a good option, being able to easily tank a +6 hit and nuke Cawmodore with Heat Wave or Thunderbolt. I saw Zapdos quite a bit during the playtest so I think it deserves a mention. I don't think Skarmory should be considered a premier counter, because Cawmodore can set up more than once thanks to Drain Punch and Whirlwind fails against last-mon Cawmodore sweeps (an unfortunately common occurrence).

    In terms of dedicated teammates, Wobbufett should be near the top of the list, especially for the sub salac set. Not only can it kill off potential Scarf counters (of which most teams only have one), it can easily lead to a free setup by Encoring a Pokemon into something Cawmodore can resist. Even if Wobbuffett dies in the process, that one turn of setup may be all the Cawmodore user needs for an easy sweep.
  8. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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    Just to clear this up again, since it happens on most every analysis, CAP analyses at present are written about the meta in which they were created. Aegislash or Cyclohm are irrelevant to this analysis. That may change with new policy in the future, but for now keep the talk to things that existed in the playtest meta.

    Quagsire is indeed the only true counter to all sets, though it's a mediocre Pokemon in BW OU in general. It is certainly viable. Zapdos is a good option too, though it gets clobbered pretty hard and minds Stealth Rock. Phys Def Zapdos however is one of the better defensive options. Skarmory is indeed limited, though it isn't bad under most circumstances. The last mon sweep is indeed a problem for Skarm.

    And I'll be sure to make a mention of Wobb. It does its job as well as ever, helping to get a setup opportunity for Cawmodore or maybe to remove the opponent's scarfer.
  9. Fuzzie

    Fuzzie

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    If I may add my opinion on the analysis, I believe that there should be a section describing some possible allies that Cawmodore can rely on to set up. I remember seeing Latias on a lot of teams, providing both Light Screen and Reflect, as well as an extra push with Memento, preventing the opponent from doing anything to Cawmodore as it sets up. I also found that Spore users such as Breloom were capable at shutting down anything that was considered a threat to Cawmodore (and anyone foolish enough to not switch out at the sight of them.) Finally, a strategy that I used (Post-Playtest) was stalling a Speed Boost with Substitutes and a Ganlon/Salac Berry using a Pokemon like Ninjask. Cawmodore was able to use the extra speed to outrun scarfers like Rotom, while also providing a defensive boost and - if they are lucky enough - a free Substitute to eat up any damage that comes its way. These were just three of the ways I have used and seen support for Cawmodore throughout the playtest, and past it. Some may not be as viable as I see them, but I still feel that there should be some mention of what steps can be taken to help Cawmodore set up his sweep.
  10. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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    OK I've gone and done some cleaning.

    I've removed the "bulky" set seen here, but I could add it back in, or some variation if it's seen as useful. I was on the fence, since it's not even close to the best Cawmodore can do:
    Show Hide
    <script type="text/javascript">
    var set = new CAPSet();
    set.name = "Bulky Sweeper";
    set.move[1] = "Belly Drum";
    set.move[2] = ["Acrobatics", "Drill Peck"];
    set.move[3] = "Drain Punch";
    set.move[4] = "Bullet Punch";
    set.item = ["Sitrus Berry", "Flying Gem"];
    set.ability = ["Intimidate", "Volt Absorb"];
    set.nature = "Adamant";
    set.evs.HP = 204;
    set.evs.Atk = 252;
    set.evs.Spe = 52;
    document.write(composeSet(set));
    </script>

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>
    (spread shamelessly stolen from alexwolf)
    This bulkier set tries to stay useful prior to the Belly Drum by offering decent bulk and Drain Punch early on in the match prior to an attempt at a sweep later
    Intimidate is generally preferred for that reason, accentuating Cawmodore's great physical bulk
    While a faster set really benefits from Jolly, this bulkier set can afford Adamant, which lets a +6 Bullet Punch always OHKO Latios after Rocks (43.8% chance without them), for example
    The speed investment outruns Adamant Lucario, Timid Heatran, Modest Rotom-W, and Jolly Mamoswine
    Speed could be boosted to 108 EVs in order to outrun Timid Rotom-W or 140 for Jolly Lucario if so desired
    Since this set is more susceptible to fast threats than the fast sweeper set is, it's important to weaken the speedy opponents first, so that Bullet Punch can more easily pick them off
    </p>
  11. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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  12. PttP

    PttP Shoutout to the sidewalk for keeping me off the streets
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    Since I already basically QC this and you added teammates and whatnot, I approve.

    [QC 1/3]
  13. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

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    I am Full Metal Dragon on PS (Number 15 on the final ladder, but I was 5 when I stopped playing it halfway through. Should I provide input for this or do you only want the aforementioned users to comment?
  14. jas61292

    jas61292 used substitute
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    The list of people above is just for QC approval. Even if you are not on it you can still give comments if you think you have something to add.
  15. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

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    Alright, thank you Jas.

    Show Hide
    I myself used a variant of bulky Cawmodore to great effect. Out of 52 matches, I only lost 3 (two of which were to Jas's damn SpAtk Cawmodore). I used Volt Absorb, Sitrus Berry, Acrobatics, Belly Drum, Bullet Punch and Drain Punch. IVs were 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpDef with a Careful nature. This was very much a counter-meta build designed to soak up the hits of the predominant weather based SpAtk Pokemon. Where an average Cawmodore would fall to a Rain boosted Surf or a Heat Wave in the Sun, this build's maximized special bulk allowed it to take the hits and retaliate, but not with too much safety. This would allow, if fresh into the battle, Cawmodore to trigger the Sitrus Berry and hit with an unexpected Acrobatics followed up with a Bullet Punch when your opponent was expecting to either force a switch or KO Cawmodore. Due to Cawmodore's naturally high Base Speed, it would outspeed all other Pokemon not invested in Speed. This helped greatly reduce the value of the opponent's attempts at speed creeping as well as Scarf users and allowed Cawmodore to shore up its rather unimpressive 50/75 special bulk, the target or a majority of the meta's efforts.

    Like all Cawmodore builds, this one was invariably walled and countered by defensive Zapdos, but its added bulk mitigated the threat that Rotom Wash, and many other bulky special attackers, posed. On the other hand, this build was completely obliterated when confronted with any of the more common Cawmodore builds. Due to its focus on survival and long term gain, it would be outsped and outdamaged by any other Cawmodore it faced. Due to the lesser focus on Atk, this build would be even more so walled by Unaware Quagsire. The primary advantage to Specially Defensive Cawmodore can be seen in the difficulty with which most Pokemon would find in removing it. In neutral weather and at full health, this build could (just barely) absorb a Timid Heatran's Flamethrower (252 SpA Heatran Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cawmoddore: 254-302 (83.5 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). Assuming the Belly Drum boost has already taken affect, this Cawmodore would be able to strike back with a lethal Drain Punch, healing it back to over 50% HP. Even when forced to flee from battle, this build can switch in on a predicted Electric move (very common in the meta), regain a sizable amount of health with Volt Absorb and attempt to regain momentum.

    One of the best Pokemon to pair this, and really any, Cawmodore with would be Mold Breaker, Dragon Dance Haxorus. It resists both of Haxorus's weaknesses and checks virtually every counter to Cawmodore. Mold Breaker Earthquake takes out Rotom, any good Rock move will get rid of Zapdos and your choice of Fire Fang to take out Cawmodore and Skarmory or Brick Break to get rid of screens and Heatran. Despite this, Haxorus invariably shares Cawmodore's weakness to Quagsire and Burn. Another feasible partner would be Serene Grace Togekiss. Sadly, we all know what that does in any meta.


    I hope my input can help validate the bulky versions of Cawmodore. :/
  16. Redwolf

    Redwolf

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    (Skarmory's stat's set to Cawmodore's)
    +6 0 Atk Skarmory Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4+ Def Chandelure: 80-94 (30.6 - 36%) -- 47.4% chance to 3HKO
    +6 252 Atk Skarmory Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4+ Def Chandelure: 102-120 (39 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Bold scarfed Chandelure can switch in on bullet punch or drain punch and then outspeed and 1HKO with a flamethrower or fireblast
    252 SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 408-480 (169.2 - 199.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 494-584 (162.5 - 192.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252 SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Skarmory: 372-438 (122.3 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    In my experience It was easy enough to bait a bullet or drain punch.
  17. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

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    That Chandelure is quite powerful and seems like a perfect counter to my build and in fact all Cawmodores. At the very least it could force a switch and make Cawmodore lose his Belly Drum boost. Powerful Flash Fire Pokemon would be a reasonable way to counter Chandelure, but they would be dead weight if not a liability when facing an opponent in the rain. The same can not be said for Pokemon such as Storm Drain Gastrodon that can play a pivotal role regardless of the weather or the opponent's team. Although rain may have been the more predominant weather in the Cawmodore ladder, a Sun team was far harder to counter without completely falling prey to Rain teams.
  18. Base Speed

    Base Speed What a load of BS!
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    I have been called here... What exactly is it you want me to do?
  19. Dragonblaze052

    Dragonblaze052

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    I believe you are here to help with quality control.
  20. MQJinx

    MQJinx

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    I think we should mention in OO that Skarmory outclasses any attempt on a support set, as Skarm does everything support Cawmodore can do as well as set up hazards, Taunt, phaze with Whirlwind, and Roost to recover.
  21. Base Speed

    Base Speed What a load of BS!
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    Right. Ok...
    Is there a guide to helping with quality control or someone willing to talk me through it? This'll be the first time I've done this.
  22. So I read through this. And thought about it. And thought some more. And ignored it for a few days. And gave it a bit more thought.

    And I didn't come up with anything I wanted to change. This looks great.

    [QC 2/3]

    I can actually do this? This is real?
  23. srk1214

    srk1214 Goddess of Light
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    Thanks BoH. I'll get this written up now best I can.

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