Celebi (Calm Mind)

[NightShadow]

I'm agreeing with supermarth64 here. A mention that it can survive good Special Attacks could be okay, but otherwise its generally more inefficient than the Bulky Nasty Plot Celebi. Also, the type coverage really sucks, and so does the damage with these EVs. +1 SpA just isn't enough for a bulky set, and plus the typing sucks too :(

 

[panamaxis]

well defensive CM celebi has always been great for me, NP can't set up multiple times, especially on stuff such as rotom and vaporeon so i don't really believe it's outclassed. Unless someone can think up a better EV spread then what has been proposed in the OP I'm just gonna go ahead and approve this.

QC Approved (1/3)

 

[Megan_Fox]

I definitely feel Defensive Calm Mind Celebi should get on site, but I'm not 100% sure if it should have a separate analysis. My idea was to merge this set with Defensive NP and make some sort of Defensive booster set. They are rather similar sets and the differences can be easily outlined on the writeup IMO, in fact, doing this could actually make it easier for users to pick between the two sets as the differences would be straight up explained. However, if the rest of QC does not like this idea, then I'm completely fine stamping this and giving it a set. Note that if QC does like this idea, the same can be done for Offensive CM and NP which undergoes a similar situation.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Actually, I want the original offensive CM set removed and replaced with this. It's obvious that if you're going an attacking route, Celebi really, really needs the power of Nasty Plot (it's been emphasized in this thread that base 100 special attack isn't all that great), so a defensively oriented set plays significantly more to Calm Mind's strengths.

While we're at it, I want to bring up merging the Nasty Plot sets into the following set:

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Psychic / Recover
move 3: Grass Knot / Recover
move 4: Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb / Leftovers
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

AC would mention moving 116 Speed EVs to HP along with Recover and Leftovers for a bulkier version of the set. It'd also mention Occa Berry alongside Earth Power for toasting Heatran. Energy Ball would also be mentioned as a more "reliable" attack, since there are Pokemon like Vaporeon and the Pixies that can fuck up a set using only Grass Knot.

The end result is that instead of having:

Offensive NP
Defensive NP (?)
Offensive CM
Defensive CM

We'd just have:

Nasty Plot (offensive, bulkier "balanced" version in ac)
Calm Mind (defensive)

Makes sense to me, and also tends to reduce the clutter in the analysis (celebi has a fuckton of sets).

 

[Megan_Fox]

I change my position to agree with the sentiments of SDS's post, Offensive CM should get removed while defensive CM should be added.

Also, being the writer of the NP sets, I was unsure if the two sets should be split right from the start; im still a bit unsure but SDS is right, they aren't that different and could be merged with a little effort. In that case ill side with what the rest of qc decides as both seem reasonable but i probably lean towards the merge

 

[panamaxis]

What SDS said is fine by me

 

[Kevin Garrett]

I talked with Setsuna about it and agree that Defensive Nasty Plot and Offensive Calm Mind should be removed. Furthermore, I would like to suggest an alternative EV spread for Defensive Calm Mind. As defensive as your spread is, the fact that Flygon's U-turn almost kills it shows how frail it is. When I have used CM Celebi, I used the Physically Defensive spread. This allows it to set up on a lot more things and have more durability over the course of a match. It isn't completely destroyed by Tyranitar as it can live a hit to scout what its move set is and if it Pursuits you get more additional turns. It will also OHKO Scizor after one boost if it has come in on SR a few times. This should be added to Additional Comments at the very least.

 

[Nenloth]

Thanks, I'm gonna add it quickly. Unfortunately, too few Speed is there. But OK, never mind.

 

[alex 67]

I mean absolutely no offense on this but you may want to have an extra grammar prose guy go over this when you're done as judging by this:

Unfortunately, too few Speed is there

,this:

- Every Hazer and Taunter ruin your Calm Minds and Recovers (Taunt), but also a very powerful physical attacker kill you, for instance Infernape with Flare Blitz, Gyarados with Ice Fang, Jirachi with Ice/Fire Punch, and of course an U-turn from Scizor

english doesn't seem to be your first language however it's still pretty good.

 

[Nenloth]

Yup, you're right. English isn't my best language. Polish forever. :P

Could you tell me how to correct it?

 

[Aeron Ee1]

Don't worry about it. The GP Team will see fit how many checks are needed. =] Just make sure you give it your best.

 

[Setsuna]

This is what we're gonna do with Celebi:

1. Both Nasty Plot sets will be merged into the set Seven Deadly Sins suggested a few posts above. This new set will most likely need a new write-up, so I'll assign someone to do it when the time is right.

2. Defensive Calm Mind is going to be removed. Instead, the set that's been presented in this thread — plus some additional changes determined by QC — is the one that's going to go onsite.

I'm gonna go and make these changes in a while. On with the OP, I'd like to see Kevin's recommendations being implemented as soon as possible. The end result should look like this:

[SET]
name: Defensive Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Grass Knot / Energy Ball
move 3: Recover
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Earth Power
item: Leftovers
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 220 Def / 36 Spe

 

[Nenloth]

Why? We have the Physical Defensive Celebi already. I suggest to leave this set as it was written. I think there're no necessary changes. If somebody wants to have a more physically defensive spread then he can make it after reading the optional changes.

 

[Demoness]

Why? We have the Physical Defensive Celebi already. I suggest to leave this set as it was written. I think there're no necessary changes. If somebody wants to have a more physically defensive spread then he can make it after reading the optional changes.

Flygon's U-Turn smashes the spread in your OP, and Scizor's KO's no matter what. Using the EVs the standard defensive Celebi uses, Flygon's U-Turns don't instantly rape you, and you can survive a Scarf Scizor's U-Turn.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

I thought about adding Calm Mind to the Physically Defensive set on site, but that already has so many options. This is better explained in its own set.

 

[Setsuna]

OP could you please implement the changes that we recommended so that we can get this moving? Thanks!

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I thought about adding Calm Mind to the Physically Defensive set on site, but that already has so many options. This is better explained in its own set.

Another thing to note is that the Physically Defensive set is more of a "team player", whereas Defensive Calm Mind is more of a selfish set. The two sets have different aims, and very different playstyles.

 

[Nenloth]

...

It may sound very strange, but who is OP? Me?

 

[shrang]

OP = Original Poster, so yes, you.

 

[Nenloth]

I may've missed something, but your comments were added.

 

[deinosaur]

It looks a lot better. But I'm still not sure I would use it over CM Jirachi.

 

[alex 67]

In the thread you have 36 Spd, this should be 36 spe. Spd represents Special Defense and Spe represents Speed.

 

[Nenloth]

Ok, my fault. I use another abbreviations.

 

[Kevin Garrett]

QC Approved (2/3)

 

[Setsuna]

QC APPROVED (3/3)