Celebi

[Liquidocelot]

Overview
########

• Good bulk
• Good ability in natural cure
• Acess to heal bell and other supporting moves
• Instant recovery
• Weakness to common threats such as t-tar sucks
• Weakness to common new threats such as talonflame and greninja sucks
• decent defensive typing with ressistances to grass water fighting and ground and weaknesses to fire bug dark and ice
• pursuit weak

SET NAME
########
name: Bulky Cleric
move 1: Recover
move 2: Heal bell
move 3: Psychic/giga drain
move 4: Thunder wave
ability:Natural cure
item:Leftover's
evs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Spa
nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Recover is good for instant recovery
• heal bell helps support the team
• psychic for fighting types and poison types
• Giga drain for stab recovery
• Thunder wave for crippling common switch ins

Set Details
========

• Ev's so you can survive non banded pursuits from tyranitar
• Nature to max physical bulk
• Leftovers for extra recovery

Usage Tips
========

• Keep away from dark and from bug types such as scizor or tyranitar
• use against fighting types and water types such as rotom-w or terrakion

Team Options
========

• Goos with pokemon that hate status such as dragonite or garchomp.
• Good defensive synergy with pokemon weak to water grass or fighting type attacks such as terrakion rhyperior and heatran
• good defensive synergy with pokemon that resist bug ice dark and fire attacks such as terrakion rotom-w and heatran.

SET NAME
########
name: Offensive Pivot
move 1: Leaf storm
move 2: recover
move 3: Psychic/earth power
move 4: Hp fire/rock
ability: Natural cure
item: Life orb/Leftovers
evs: 252 Spa 252 Spe 4 Def
nature: timid

Moves
========

• Leaf torm high powered stab move
• Recover for recovery
• psychic for hitting fighting types such as terrakion
• Earth power for coverage
• Hidden power fire for steel and grass types
• hidden power rock for flying and fire types
• use either earth power and hp rock or psychic and hp fire

Set Details
========

• Leftovers for increased longetivity
• The ev's are there so you can be as fast and hit as hard as possible.
• The nature is there so you can have the max speed possible.
• Life orb is there to give you power and being able to switch item's
• Ev's are for max speed and power while preventing genesect from getting the attack boost

Usage Tips
========

• celebi likes to be brought in against bulky water tyes and ground types such as swampert or rotom-w

Team Options
========

• Celebi likes to be partnered with pokemon that hate water and ground types
• Celebi likes fighting types that can ko tyranitar

Other Options
########

• Sub seed outclassed by mega venusaur and whismicott
• offensive cleric cant find move slot and outclassed by other set's
• baton pass outclassed by mew who has better movepool and smeargle same reason

Checks & Counters
########

• Tyranitar can take any hit and can trap celebi with pursuit.
• Scizor counters any celebi set lacking HP fire and like tyranitar can pursuit trap celebi.
• Heatran can easily take any attack celebii throws at it thanks to its colosal bulk and great typing an retaliate with a stab Fire blast.

 

[Alter]

Your analyses are meant to be in bullet point form (not full sentences and such) before they receive QC checks. GL.

 

[Ash Borer]

Celebi's "quick pass" sets are interesting dumping a +2 attack or special attack onto a teammate is nice, baton pass beats pursuit users too, and can act as a pseudo u-turn for momentum. It functions like the offensive pivot but in general forfeits momentum for a boost. Something like this:

name: Baton Pass
move 1: Giga Drain / Seed Bomb
move 2: Baton Pass
move 3: Nasty Plot / Swords Dance
move 4: Recover
ability: Natural cure
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 SpA / 252 Spd / 4 hp
nature: Timid / Jolly

Cant say whether or not a coverage move is preferred over Recover, but I like recover a lot because celebi has some pretty nice defensive attributes that even with just 4/0 invesment you can take advantage of, like for example persistently absorbing status throughout the match. With an offensive spread you can do some pretty solid damage too.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Not QC, but here are my thoughts:

Personally, I would change the name of the "Bulky Cleric" set to just "Defensive," and suggest a 252 HP / 4 Def / 252+ SpD spread in the set details, seeing as Celebi can run a Specially Defensive set to great effect too.

Next, I would only include one attacking slot, which means slash Psychic and Giga Drain, and move HP Fire to AC. Celebi has a ton of other moves it would love to run, such as Perish Song, Thunder Wave, and Stealth Rock, and imo most of the time Celebi would rather have that slot for one of those moves as opposed to a weak STAB. Thunder Wave in particular, as Celebi is a terrific lure for Charizard X/Y, Genesect, and Talonflame, all who can effectively be neutered by paralysis.

Lastly, on the offensive set, I would mention Leftovers in the set details. Although it sacrifices some of Celebi's power, it dramatically increases Celebi's longevity since it becomes that much harder to wear down with stuff like Volt Switch spam from Rotom-W. I would also make the move order this:

move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Earth Power / Psychic
move 3: Hidden Power Rock / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Recover

The way this works is that Leaf Storm / Earth Power / HP Rock gets really great coverage, and Leaf Storm / Psychic / HP Fire also gets really great coverage. Basically, this lets Celebi choose its own counters. The first combination is walled by Skarmory and doesn't do much to wear down Scizor/Genesect (particularly Mega Scizor). The second combination is walled by Heatran, lets Dragonite set up, and doesn't wear down Charizard X/Y or Talonflame as efficiently, but it hits everything that the first combination cannot, and vice versa. Both are really great move combos, though.

Lastly, I would make EVs 132 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 120 Spe. That (a) outspeeds everything up to Jolly Mega Tyranitar (which includes Adamant 252 Spe Mega Scizor), and (b) gives a SpA boost to Genesect to make it easier for a teammate to sponge the imminent U-turn.

Again, not QC, so take what I say with a grain of salt, if necessary. However, I've played with Celebi substantially this Gen and I do think these are its best options.

Also, definitely add the set Ash Borer mentioned. It can be seriously game-changing.

 

[lurkingSombres]

A scarf set can take on weakened genesect with hidden power fire.

 

[Liquidocelot]

A scarf set can take on weakened genesect with hidden power fire.

while this is true celebi really appreciates switching moves as one of the best reason's celebi is its goos stats combined with its great movepool

 

[CyclicCompound]

I've noticed you decided to use the offensive set I provided, but make sure you stress that the reader should be using EITHER Psychic + HP Fire OR Earth Power + HP Rock. This is because using Psychic + HP Rock together leaves you completely walled by Steel-types, whereas Earth Power + HP Fire leaves you completely walled by most Dragon-types and quite more than enough Flying-types. Also, make mention of the specific counters to each set. For example, HP Fire + Psychic leaves you walled by Heatran, whereas Earth Power + HP Rock leaves you walled by Skarmory. It's important to note this information, because it lets the reader decide which set fits their team better.

Also, if I were you, I'd elaborate on some of the following points. I'm not QC, so again, take this with a grain of salt, but I feel like there are some things that could be substantially added to.

Horrible typing

It's not horrible, it just has some commonly found weaknesses. However, at the same time, it has some very valuable resistances that shouldn't be underplayed.

psychic strong stab

You say this several times throughout the analysis, but keep in mind that Psychic isn't really a great STAB to have. Instead, maybe mention some of the things it can hit hard, such as "the Fighting-types Celebi is sent in to counter."

good defesnive synergy with pokemon that resist bug ice dark and fire attacks

Like? In general, your entire analysis is quite vague on specific teammates and/or counters. I would definitely beef up these sections, especially considering that one of Celebi's main selling points is that it has extremely great synergy with certain Pokemon.

Spam u-turn if you see tyranitar on other team so you dont get trapped

U-turn's no longer on the set, so remove this point.

I'll talk to QC later about the EVs for the offensive set, so that I can get back to you with a definite spread.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Alright, I talked to Fuzznip and Jukain a little bit on IRC and 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature seems good to go. Basically, that means all you have to do is move the 4 Attack EVs to Defense. Mention that the 4 Defense EVs are so that Genesect doesn't get an Attack boost.

 

[Bunnelby]

Warning, incoming grammar Nazi! Corrections and suggestions in bold.
(Sorry if anything is incorrect, I'm still new)

Overview
########

• Good bulk (How? Stats? Immunities? Resistances? Few weaknesses?)
  
• Good (Needs different word- just used good in last sentence) ability in natural cure
• Access to Heal Bell and other supporting moves
• Instant recovery (With what move?)
  
• Weakness to common threats such as Tyranitar sucks
• Weakness to common new threats such as Talonflame and Greninja sucks (again, use different word(s)- is problematic, perhaps?)
  
• Decent defensive typing, with resistances to Grass, Water, Fighting and ground and weaknesses to fire bug dark and ice
• pursuit weak

SET NAME
########
Name: Bulky Cleric
Move 1: Recover
Move 2: Heal Bell
Move 3: Psychic/Giga Drain
Move 4: Thunder Wave
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Leftovers (no apostrephie [sp?])
EVs: 252 HP 252 Def 4 Spa
Nature: Bold

Moves
========

• Recover is good for instant recovery (different word- try healing)
  
• Heal Bell helps support the team (by removing status)
  
• Psychic (typing) (is helpful) for Fighting-types (and Poison types- types twice is unnecessary) types and poison types
• Giga Drain for STAB recovery
• Thunder Wave for crippling common switch ins (such as...)

Set Details
========

• EVs are so you can survive non banded pursuits from Tyranitar
• Nature to max physical bulk
• Leftovers for extra recovery

Usage Tips
========

• Keep away from Dark and from (not needed) Bug types such as Scizor or Tyranitar
• Use against (common may be used here) fighting types and water types such as rotom-w or terrakion

Team Options
========

• Good (offensive? defensive? synergy) with Pokemon that hate status such as Dragonite or Garchomp.
• Good defensive synergy with pokemon weak to Water, Grass, or Fighting type attacks such as Terrakion, Rhyperior and Heatran
  
• Good defensive synergy with pokemon that resist Bug, Ice, Dark, and Fire type attacks such as Terrakion, Rotom-W, or Heatran.

SET NAME
########
name: Offensive Pivot
Move 1: Leaf Storm
Move 2: Recover
Move 3: Psychic/Earth power
Move 4: HP Fire/Rock
Ability: Natural Cure
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
EVs: 252 Spa 252 Spe 4 Def
nature: Timid

Moves
========

• Leaf Storm is a high powered STAB move
• Recover for (reliable) recovery
• Psychic for a easy STAB hitting fighting types such as terrakion
• Earth Power for coverage (against what?)
  
• Hidden Power Fire for Steel and Grass types
• Hidden Power Rock for Flying and Fire types
• Use either Earth Power and HP Rock or Psychic and HP Fire (What??? No. You can't use 2 HPs at the same time, and HP Psychic is outclassed by normal Psychic.)

Set Details
========

• Leftovers for increased longevity
  
• The EVs are there so you can be as fast and hit as hard as possible.
• The nature is there so you can have the max speed possible.
• Life Orb is there to give you power and being able to switch items (something about Recover being an option to help with the recoil?)
  
• EVs are for max speed and power, while preventing Genesect from getting the attack boost (with Download)

Usage Tips
========

• Celebi likes to be brought in against bulky water tyes and ground types such as Swampert or Rotom-W (Used Rotom-W- maybe Landy?)

Team Options
========

• Celebi likes to be partnered with Pokemon that hate water and ground types
• Celebi likes (used likes- try enjoys) Fighting types that can KO Tyranitar

Other Options
########

• SubSeed (?) is outclassed by Mega Venusaur and Whismicott
• Offensive Cleric cant find move slot (Has 4MSS?) and is outclassed by other sets
• Baton Pass is outclassed by Mew, who has a better movepool and Smeargle, for the same reason

Checks & Counters
########

• Tyranitar can take any hit and can trap Celebi with Pursuit.
• Scizor counters any Celebi set lacking HP Fire and like Tyranitar, can pursuit trap Celebi.
• Heatran can easily take any attack Celebi throws at it, thanks to its colossal bulk and great typing while retaliating with a STAB Fire Blast, Lava Plume, or Magma Storm.

Phew, that took awhile.

 

[CyclicCompound]

Warning, incoming grammar Nazi! Corrections and suggestions in bold.
(Sorry if anything is incorrect, I'm still new)


Phew, that took awhile.

Ummm... I'm terribly sorry to inform you, since it looks like you put a lot of work into this, but this is simply a skeleton for Celebi's analysis which will later be written up and grammar/prose checked after all QC checks have been made. Just for future reference, threads with the green tag [Copyediting] in front of them are open fodder for amateur GP checks.

 

[Bunnelby]

Ack, I should have known that. Super sorry- I'm still trying to find my way around.
Once this gets to Copy-Editing, maybe I'll post it again, idk.
Welp, off to lurk more.

 

[Uvood]

Have not tried it yet, and it probably struggles with gene in the meta, but some mention should be made of a Nasty plot set. Would look somewhat like the offensive set, with giga drain and nasty plot over leaf storm and recover. Will do some playtesting myself later, but would like to hear what people think :).

 

[alexwolf]

The first set is messed up. Here is how it should be:

Physically Defensive
########
name: Physically Defensive
move 1: Giga Drain / Psychic
move 2: Stealth Rock / Thunder Wave
move 3: U-turn / Baton Pass
move 4: Recover
ability: Natural cure
item: Leftover's
evs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
nature: Bold

Giga Drain goes first because you need it to deal with Azumarill, which otherwise could beat you with Belly Drum, as you can't OHKO with Psychic and it OHKOes with +6 Play Rough. It is also great for Mega Gyarados, a Pokemon that rarely carries Bite and which you wall. Finally, being able to do something to Rotom-W instead of being Pain Split bait is incredibly useful and allows Celebi to truly counter Rotom-W and not just give it infinite Volt Turn opportunities. However, Psychic is also very useful for Conkeldurr, Thundurus, and Breloom (all Pokemon that you wall), and a lot of Pokemon that like to switch into Celebi, such as Mega Venusaur, Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, and the Mega Charizards. Next, we have the important utility move, which is one of the big pros of Celebi over Mega Venusaur. SR is great as Celebi finds a ton of chances to set it up, while also beating some Defog and Rapid Spin users, such as Starmie, Lati@s, and Excadrill, but Thunder Wave is also very useful and catches many of Celebi's switch-ins by surprise, not to mention that Celebi is one of the best Thunder Wave users, as most Ground-types don't want to switch into Celebi, the most common Electric-type (Rotom-W) doesn't either, and Thundurus usually doesn't either. Then, we have a pivoting move, another thing Celebi has over Mega Venusaur and a great way to give free switches to offensive Pokemon. Use Baton Pass if you fear Bisharp and Tyranitar, otherwise go with U-turn. Finally, Recover recovers.

About the EV spread i am not sure, but both physically defensive and specially defensive have merit. Physically defensive deals with Terrakion, Excadrill, Azumarill, and Conkeldurr, and fares great vs sand teams, while specially defensive deals with Manaphy, Mega Garchomp, Lati@s, and Specs Keldeo, and fares better vs rain teams (specific Pokemon were taken only out of S and A ranks from the viability ranking thread). Honestly, i think we should make two defensive sets. 16 Spe outruns Adamant Breloom and Bisharp.

Other than the defensive sets, Celebi should have an offensive set, which you already have, and a Nasty Plot / Calm Mind + Baton Pass set, which you don't have, so please include one. The moveset would be the moves mentioned above, and Giga Drain / Psychic + Recover (for regular teams) / Sub (for full Baton Pass teams). Not sure about the ev spread, but make it specially defensive for now.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

If it isn't too much trouble, also add a specially defensive set on top of the set Alexwolf just posted, with an emphasis towards special bulk with 252 HP / 240 SpD / 16 Spe with a Calm nature. For now, the moves should also be the same as physically defensive, and differentiate it from the other by saying that Celebi's typing allows it to also take a multitude of special attacks.

 

[Pancham]

After using the original set CyclicCompound posted, I find that is highly effective. Perhaps you could mention those EVs in OO, but mention how you miss the speed tie with MegaZards, lose to Genesect that has a Bug-type move, U-turn or Bug Buzz, and all that fun stuff. Also agree with SpDefensive Celebi being the first set, just as it was last gen, due to Celebi most liking to switch into specially-based mons more than physically-based mons, like Rotom-w.

As for the set alexwolf posted, I feel like Thunder Wave should be the first slash because Celebi likes to cripple switch-ins, which are commonly sweepers/wallbreakers/cleaners, like Talonflame, MegaZards and Mega Pinsir, and they hate Thunder Wave and such. I would also mention other support moves which Celebi's move pool is accumulated with, like Heal Bell, Perish Song, and the like, other things Celebi can do that Mega Venusaur and other common Grass-types in OU cannot.

I also feel like a Choice Scarf set for Celebi could have merit, as it beats other comon scarfers, Genesect and the lulzy Rotom-w's, it also has the chance to speed tie with pokemon at +1, if not outspeed them, like Dragonite, MegaZard X and Salamence, and can KO them after some prior damage is made with HPRock, or Eath Power if it's MegaZard X, if you opt for Earth Power + HPRock over HPFire+Psychic. However, if you do this, then you can't beat Genesect, though it may be banned anyway. Same moves as the current LO set, as well as a Timid nature. With U-turn/Trick over Recover. However, this could probably be better suited for other sets Celebi can run, without getting a main set in the analysis.

As for the overview, I would probably mention/cite Celebi as being the best Rotom-w counter in the tier, which definitely has merit, and boosts its viability.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I also feel like a Choice Scarf set for Celebi could have merit, as it beats other comon scarfers, Genesect and the lulzy Rotom-w's, it also has the chance to speed tie with pokemon at +1, if not outspeed them, like Dragonite, MegaZard X and Salamence, and can KO them after some prior damage is made with HPRock, or Eath Power if it's MegaZard X, if you opt for Earth Power + HPRock over HPFire+Psychic. However, if you do this, then you can't beat Genesect, though it may be banned anyway. Same moves as the current LO set, as well as a Timid nature. With U-turn/Trick over Recover. However, this could probably be better suited for other sets Celebi can run, without getting a main set in the analysis.

My main problem with a Choice Scarf set is that Celebi lacks two things that most scarfers need: an abundance of power, and STABs that aren't very bad to be locked into. Base 100 Special Attack isn't taking Celebi anywhere notable, and although its coverage is great, it becomes the ultimate setup bait if the opponent predicts correctly and sends out something to tank the hit. I'd say it's adequate for the first strike, since it definitely comes as a surprise, but a Choice-locked Celebi is rather bad after that. I'd OO it at best, unless QC has another opinion.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Baton pass is definitely not outclassed by mew... Celebi has far more useful resistances, as well as a second STAB. Celebi actually has specific foes it can set up (Rotom-W, Ferrothorn, Trevenac), and Natural Cure is awesome with Baton Pass. Baton Pass also gets around Scizor and Tyranitar-- Celebi's biggest threats-- and with Pokemon like Manaphy, Landorus-I, Lucario, Charizard, and even Genesect, there are REALLY good pass targets.

I would say that Baton Pass is Celebi's BEST and more viable set, rivaled only potentially by the status healer.

 

[Fuzznip]

Liquidocelot

Are you still working on this? You have 24 hours to respond.

 

[Liquidocelot]

Liquidocelot

Are you still working on this? You have 24 hours to respond.

I apologize i went on vacation and i dont think i can do this once again i apologize