Chansey


Chansey

Since Blissey was released as an evolutionary form of Chansey, it has always taken the glory of being the greatest Special Wall in game. With a base HP of 255 and SpD of 135, it is one of the few Pokemons in the game that can take a neutral Kyogre's full-HP Water Spout.

The 5th generation, however, changed this once again, as an item called Pre-Evolution Stone made Chansey much more of a wall than its elder sister, Blissey.

It is important to compare the stats between Chansey and Blissey by their base stats:
Blissey: 255 / 10 / 10 / 75 / 135 / 55
Chansey @ Pre-Evolution Stone: 250 / 5 / 37 / 35 / 215 / 50
The values are calculated by zee-brah on post #5.

*Note: This is only a comparison of the stats using the Base Stats. The Pre-Evolution Stone actually make changes to the actual stat (1.5x the stat normally for Def/SpD). You can look at it like a free Cosmic Power.

The most important aspect of using Chansey is, of course, special walling, therefore, the 157 SpD triumphs Blissey's 135 by quite a stretch. As it still has certain downsides from Blissey, such as not being able to fully utilize its SpA and cannot carry Leftovers, Blissey still very much has its usefulnesses. Its ineptability to effectly wall Ghosts other than statuses in such a way Blissey can also gives some people a doubt, but I do not foresee Chansey ending up in the UU tier again with such powerful stats unless there is an item ban. However, it is not a matter for me to discuss this issue.

Possibly Chansey set:
Chansey @ Pre-Evolution Stone
Nature Cure | Bold / Calm
4 HP / 252 DEF / 252 SpD [There may be better spreads]
- Thunder Wave
- Toxic / Stealth Rock
- Softboiled
- Seismic Toss

Summary: Rather than saying Chansey is superior than Blissey, we can actually just conclude that it can be used different and very effectively. Both Chansey and Blissey have their pros and cons, but in term of Special Defense, the younger fatty wins.
 
The way you compare the stats is wrong, the pre evo stone effects the actual stats, not the base stats.
 
Assuming all of its stats can be maxed out, it would look like this:
704/119/339
Boosted by prevo stone, this becomes:
704/189/508. Looking at this, its actual base stats are:
250/(approx.)37/(approx.) 215
I used Smeargle's Base Attack Stat for the Defense stat of Chansey. and Regice and Shuckle's base Sp.D for the Sp.D stat of Chansey. This is not exactly right, since you cannot boost them all at the same time, and when not boosted, the boost of the prevo stone also gets less, so then the base stats would be a little bit less.
I could've made some mistakes, though.

EDIT: I failed at these calculations.... look at the post below me
 
The EBS (Equivalent Base Stats) depend on the final stat (That is, Level, Nature, IVs and EV Spread)

For Example, let's suppose a 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD spread with a Bold nature, these would be the Base Stats:

Blissey: 255 / 10 / 10 / 75 / 135 / 55
Chansey WITHOUT Stone: 250 / 5 / 5 / 35 / 105 / 50
Chansey WITH Stone*: 250 / 5 / 31 / 35 / 166 / 50

*Defense and Special Defense 'base stats' were rounded down. 32 and 167 are also appropiate values since they're higher than 31.5 and 166.5

And these are the final stats (With the same spread as above)

Blissey: 714 / 50 / 130 / 186 / 307 / 146
Chansey WITHOUT Stone: 704 / 41 / 119 / 106 / 247 / 136
Chansey WITH Stone*: 704 / 41 / 178 / 106 / 370 / 136

*Defense and Special Defense stats are rounded down

Stoned Chansey is, without any doubt, better than Blissey by raw stats. Whether you need Chansey or Blissey as your special wall, it depends in how are you using one for
 
Chansey mostly outclasses Blissey.

However, Blissey is superior in situations when your team needs someone that can do what Chansey does, but is able to hold Leftovers and attack outside of Seismic Toss.

So this means that you should only use Blissey if you're taking advantage of her Special Attack and her Leftovers.
 
There's also the fact she is less vulnerable to knock off and more importantly trick, and could potentially utilize a specs tricked to her. She could even run mail to be immune to trick altogether. Chansey may have statistically superior defenses, Blissey has higher sp atk, and more importantly an item- leftovers to negate sandstorm/heal (very valuable on wish/protect) or other niche items, such as mail.
 
There's also the fact she is less vulnerable to knock off and more importantly trick, and could potentially utilize a specs tricked to her. She could even run mail to be immune to trick altogether. Chansey may have statistically superior defenses, Blissey has higher sp atk, and more importantly an item- leftovers to negate sandstorm/heal (very valuable on wish/protect) or other niche items, such as mail.
Well, a Pokemon that tricks Chansey gets an item that will be useless for them, whilst if they trick Blissey they get Leftovers. So there's that aspect to think about too.

And even without Evolution Stone, Chansey still has the 2nd best special walling capabilities in OU, I believe. It's not like it's dreadful, it's just if it gets tricked you'll be wishing it was a Blissey. :D

I think Blissey is better overall, due to Leftovers and special attacks. Chansey could be better on certain teams though.

Chansey could also be useful if there's ever such a metagame where it's beneficial to have two normal-type special walls on the same team, as you can have Chansey and Blissey without breaking species clause. I can't see this ever happening to be honest.
 
Well, a Pokemon that tricks Chansey gets an item that will be useless for them,
Except that they still have Trick, meaning that they are able to give one of your Pokemon a useless item and you don't have the option of getting rid of it. Sorta like the reason people don't use Black Sludge - it may hurt the Trick user if they don't get rid of it for whatever reason, but as soon as they do, you're the one who's stuck with it.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure the Blissey vs. Chansey argument has already been beaten to death.
 
Considering Chansey's defenses now have that boost from the Pre-Evo Stone, wouldn't it be better to just give it an EV spread that's something like 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef? I mean, I think it can afford to focus more EVs on HP now more than before.
 
Considering Chansey's defenses now have that boost from the Pre-Evo Stone, wouldn't it be better to just give it an EV spread that's something like 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpDef? I mean, I think it can afford to focus more EVs on HP now more than before.
On the other hand, wouldn't you want to invest in the defenses, and not in the HP, in order to maximize the effects of the Evo Stone? There must be some ideal formulation in there for maximized bulkiness.
 
Wasn't there a thread before?

Anyway, for me I prefer Blissey, if only because for Leftovers negating SS/Hail passive damage, as I'm a balanced/stallish player, and those really wrack up if you don't have Leftovers.
 

Engineer Pikachu

Good morning, you bastards!
is a Contributor Alumnus
On the other hand, wouldn't you want to invest in the defenses, and not in the HP, in order to maximize the effects of the Evo Stone? There must be some ideal formulation in there for maximized bulkiness.
If I remember correctly, physical/special bulkiness was calculated by HP * Defense. Let's compare a spread of 252/252+/4 and 4/252+/252 for HP, Defense, and Sp. D, respectively. I'll throw in Blissey as well.

The format will be:
HP / Def / Sp.D; Def * HP / Sp.D * HP; Def * Sp.D * HP^2
Also known as...Phy. Bulkiness/Spc. Bulkiness; Phy * Spc Bulkiness

Chansey (Set 1)
704/119/247 before Evo Stone
704/179/370 after; 126016 / 260480; 32824647680
Blissey (Set 1)
714/130/306; 92820 / 218484; 20279684880 / 21547165185
Chansey (Set 2)
641/119/301 before Evo Stone
641/179/451 after; 114739 / 289091; 33170012249
Blissey (Set 2)
651/130/369; 84630 / 240219; 20329733970 / 21600342343
Chansey (44/216+/248)
652/110/308 before Evo Stone
652/165/462 after; 107580 / 301224; 32405677920

It's pretty clear that Chansey is superior to Blissey stat-wise, even if you multiply Blissey's overall bulkiness by 17/16 for Leftovers. Something interesting to note is that maximizing your defenses is more worth it than maximizing HP, regardless of Blissey/Chansey. Blissey with Set 2 is 0.2% bulkier than Blissey with Set 1 (it is also more balanced), and Chansey with Set 2 is 1.05% bulkier than Chansey with Set 1.

It is clear that Chansey is better stat-wise than Blissey, but I find myself gravitating towards Blissey more. One reason is that I hate being unable to negate weather damage, considering the fact that Chan/Bliss takes damage from both SS and Hail. Another reason is that it gives me reason to use Protect besides scouting and Toxic-stalling, both of which are relatively poor choices if there's detrimental weather.

Onto addressing the quote now. I tried making a non max/max Chansey spread, and it turned out worse than both of the max/max ones by a fair bit (up to 2.3%). 216 EVs with a +Nature gave Chansey the bonus stat point, and 248 Sp.D EVs made the Sp.D an even number, which means it wouldn't get wasted by the Evo Stone boost. The rest of the EVs went into HP. As you can see, it didn't really work out. The only reason you should be using 252/252/4 on Chansey is if you're Wish-passing with the new mechanics. Otherwise, 4/252/252 is better. However, I personally feel that Blissey is better at Wish-passing because of the benefits of Leftovers that I previously stated. Therefore, this is my stance:

Wish-passing --> Blissey
Cleric, Special Wall --> Chansey
 
Which is totally why Azumarill's base 50 attack, which is doubled by its ability, makes it almost equivalent to 150 base attack. It doesn't work like that.
Well, that's because his attack EVs are doubled.

Without EVs and neutral nature, 50 attack is 94 and 100 attack is 184, which is 4 short of actually being the double.

So technically, those base stats are correct, it's just that the evolution stone and Huge Power also increases EVs by 50/100% because it is applied to the number after EVs and nature, not before.

Meaning that Azumaril's attack is only the equivalent of 150 if he has full EV investment, otherwise it's the equal to having anywhere between base 100 and 150 depending on the EV investment.
 

lmitchell0012

Wi-Fi Blacklisted
Question. If I started using a wish Chansey/Blissey on wifi that was generated using an "alternate method" for lack of a better word, do you think people would make a big deal about it (as long as it's legit)??
 

voodoo pimp

marco pimp
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Question. If I started using a wish Chansey/Blissey on wifi that was generated using an "alternate method" for lack of a better word, do you think people would make a big deal about it (as long as it's legit)??
General rule is to let people know in advance that you're using a legal hack. Whether they care or not depends on the individual.
Holy-
That gives me some scary ideas.
Such as? Chances are most of them have been thought of already, but I'm curious.
 
In this gen whenever I've used chansey I coupled it with counter.

Chansey bold
252 hp/252 def 4 spd
bold-natural cure
counter
siesmic toss/toxic
softboiled/wish
heal bell/stealth rock/toxic

with its improved bulk compared to blissey it can survive some pretty powerful physical attacks and in return ko, and maybe, just maybe have enough health left over to survive to heal again. Set does tend to be walled by ghosts, but so few actually use physical attacks so chansey walls then in return. Can be a horrible blunder if they use a stat boosting move, but the surprise kos are worth it imho.
 

lmitchell0012

Wi-Fi Blacklisted
In this gen whenever I've used chansey I coupled it with counter.

Chansey bold
252 hp/252 def 4 spd
bold-natural cure
counter
siesmic toss/toxic
softboiled/wish
heal bell/stealth rock/toxic

with its improved bulk compared to blissey it can survive some pretty powerful physical attacks and in return ko, and maybe, just maybe have enough health left over to survive to heal again. Set does tend to be walled by ghosts, but so few actually use physical attacks so chansey walls then in return. Can be a horrible blunder if they use a stat boosting move, but the surprise kos are worth it imho.
IMO counter isn't the best move choice for chansey. She's a little bit bulkier than chansey, but she can't take a beating like the physical walls can. Protect is probably a better option, as it allows you to stall for more toxic damage.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top