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Pokémon Charizard

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by X5Dragon, Oct 14, 2013.

?

Which one these MEvos will be OU in your opinion?

  1. CharX

    21.5%
  2. CharY

    18.9%
  3. Both

    51.5%
  4. Neither

    8.1%
  1. Valentine

    Valentine バレンタイン
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    Hey guys :]

    I'm sure everyone here has seen it by now, but since you're on the topic of Zard-Y, go ahead and check out my recently completed Zard-Y guide here. If you're going to use Zard-Y at all, please read my last post in that thread to get an idea of what Zard-Y teams still work in this metagame.
    Jaiho likes this.
  2. Arikado

    Arikado What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
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    You can't just use CharY and 5 sun abusers, a sun team can't work that way. 4 turns of sun is just not enough.
  3. Vengeance417

    Vengeance417

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    I have to agree. Weather in general isn't what it used to be ever since Drought, Drizzle and Sand Stream were given a limited timeframe. The main role of Char Y's sun is to boost itself, but with the small bonus of helping its team out against water types for a short time. If Char Y was in Gen 5, it would have EASILY usurped Ninetales as the premier Drought setter for sun teams.
  4. shahrukhraza

    shahrukhraza

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    Umm... Are the Charizards legitimately being suspected? Or is this just an idea of an April Fools joke?
  5. ShootingStarmie

    ShootingStarmie
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  6. KlefkiHolder

    KlefkiHolder

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    Of course this isn't a joke. Suspects, especially one as huge as this, are not to be taken lightly.
    scotti, sims796, shahrukhraza and 2 others like this.
  7. Haunter

    Haunter 100% avocado
    is an official Team Rateris a Battle Server Administratoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris an Administratoris a Tutor Alumnus
    Líder máximo

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    lol guys don't worry, we're not going to suspect test Charizard. It was just a well organized april fool we put on in the Overused room on PS!.
    X5Dragon, scotti, rdjacobian and 2 others like this.
  8. shahrukhraza

    shahrukhraza

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    OF course, how could I make such a stupid mistake. Sorry guys for the misunderstanding.


    carry on carry on...
  9. Shadow2684

    Shadow2684

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    You guys should have kept it going. Gfaqs was going crazy xD.
    Arikado likes this.
  10. KlefkiHolder

    KlefkiHolder

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  11. Vengeance417

    Vengeance417

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    Who would have thought? Only a generation ago, everyone hated on our beloved Charizard, calling him overrated and terrible. Now, on April 1st, 2014, everyone's worried sick about a possible suspect test for the draconic fire lizard.

    We have come a long way, guys ;u;

    [​IMG]
  12. Xallista

    Xallista

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    Is there an alternative, bulkier EV spread for a Dragon Claw/Flare Blitz/Roost/Dragon Dance CharX set compared to the standard 252 atk/252 Spe/4 def one?

    I'm asking since CharX with +1 is still out-sped by scarf jolly Garchomp (or any other 101+ speed scarfers), so I was considering a set that puts more into HP to set up +2.

    Perhaps something like:

    Charizard@Charizardite X
    Blaze->Tough Claws
    Jolly
    248 HP / 252 Def / 8 atk
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Roost
    -Dragon Dance

    Or should you just switch out against such checks as a CharX?
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2014
  13. Vengeance417

    Vengeance417

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    In all honesty, if you're ever going to run a physically bulky X-Zard, it works best with Will-o-Wisp and Roost. It cripples Attackers, and combining with the bulk invested, it can take hits very well and Roost stall as the burn slowly eats away at the opponent's health, eventually forcing a switch.
  14. Xallista

    Xallista

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    Well, the WoW set is totally helpless against Heatran and just plays differently in general (I'm trying to do a bulkier version of DDance/Roost set).

    After playing around with the spreads in the showdown calculator:

    Charizard@Charizardite X
    Blaze->Tough Claws
    Jolly
    144 HP / 96 Atk / 252 Def / 16 Spe
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Roost
    -Dragon Dance

    Double DDance with 16 speed EVs Jolly puts you ahead of scarfers up to 110 base (Gengar, Latias, Latios, Espeon)
    Calculations (open)

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 144-170 (37.3 - 44%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 280-330 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 273-321 (67.5 - 79.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 286-337 (94 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 331-390 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 331-390 (102.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO


    Increased bulk vs standard 252 Atk / 252 Spe DDance/Roost set to withstand priorities better.
    Doesn't get OHKO'ed by a scarf Chomp while being able to OHKO back.

    More adjustments could be made I believe.
  15. Vengeance417

    Vengeance417

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    Your set is still hard walled by Heatran even at +2, which will most likely carry Earth Power to do serious damage to you. For the WoW set in general, you could substitute Flare Blitz for Earthquake like PokeaimMD does, or just simply have someone on the team to deal with Heatran before sending X-Zard out (which also works for your set too).

    Not saying your set is bad at all. It looks awesome, actually c:
  16. Arikado

    Arikado What is a man? A miserable little pile of secrets!
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    iirc, the typical WoW/Roost CharX does carry Earthquake. WoW/Roost/EQ/Dragon Claw
  17. Xallista

    Xallista

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    Well, the set can win that matchup if you are already set up at +2 and you predict a switch in to Heatran correctly (and he doesn't sacrifice a mon to bring him in safely), since:

    +2 96 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 144-170 (37.3 - 44%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    4 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 136 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 186-220 (56.1 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Predict switch in > Dragon Claw. (1/3)
    CharX > Dragon Claw. (2/3)
    Heatran > Earth Power (55.8-66/100)
    CharX > Dragon Claw (3/3, dead Heatran)

    Either that, or you could spam Roost to try and stall out his Earth Power PP (10 vs 10). A single crit will more or less screw you over, however.

    Yea, having EQ replace Flareblitz works well if your main concern is Heatran, but you also lose out on OHKOs against many targets (mainly fairies). There aren't any Fire/Fairy dual types yet so a WoW set like the one mentioned by Arikado would work very well.

    Alternatively, I COULD just forget about roost and throw in EQ:
    +1 0 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 516-608 (133.6 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    If I lead with CharX, the bulk (increasing it to 240 HP / 252 Def) more or less guarantees that a switched in Scarf-Chomp won't be able to OHKO me without a crit with Dragon Claw OR Outrage, while I get to sweep right afterwards.

    Set A:
    Charizard@Charizardite X
    Blaze->Tough Claws
    Jolly
    144 HP / 96 Atk / 252 Def / 16 Spe
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Roost
    -Dragon Dance


    Set B:
    Charizard@Charizardite X
    Blaze->Tough Claws
    Jolly
    240 232 HP / 252 Def / 16 24 Spe
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake
    -Dragon Dance


    EDIT: Turns out that 0 Atk / 120 Spe Adamant would provide 5 more attack compared to 96 Atk / 24 Spe Jolly for the Set A.

    Adjusted speed for 2 more points (264->266) to out-speed Jolly 252 Mega Tyranitar at +0, from reading the analysis thread.

    Set A: (Bulky Roost/DDance)
    Charizard@Charizardite X
    Blaze->Tough Claws
    Adamant
    136 HP / 252 Def / 120 Spe
    -Flare Blitz
    -Dragon Claw
    -Roost
    -Dragon Dance

    Set B: (Bulky DDance)
    Charizard@Charizardite X
    Blaze->Tough Claws
    Jolly
    232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
    -Flare Blitz / Fire Punch
    -Dragon Claw
    -Earthquake / Roost
    -Dragon Dance

    Stat Differences:
    Set A: 331 HP, 325 Atk, 266 Spe
    Set B: 355 HP, 296 Atk, 266 Spe

    calculations for Set B (open)

    252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 232 HP / 252 Def Mega Charizard X: 194-230 (54.6 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 232 HP / 252 Def Mega Charizard X: 240-284 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 232 HP / 252 Def Mega Charizard X: 288-342 (81.1 - 96.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    +1 0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 440-518 (122.9 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +1 0 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 516-608 (133.6 - 157.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    +1 0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 199-235 (65.4 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    +2 0 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 252-297 (62.3 - 73.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    +1 0 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 294-348 (91 - 107.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO


    Heatran@Air Balloon is definitely less of a problem with Set B, while Set A has better lasting ability.

    Set B is also able to tackle Aegislash better due to EQ avoiding the contact debuff from King's Shield.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  18. jmcdavid

    jmcdavid

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    It all comes down to if you want to have more attacking power or be able to last longer. You should go with whichever style you prefer, in my opinion.
  19. Life

    Life

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    That EV spread is beyond terrible.

    170/124/216 Adamant nets you 6 extra HP with same stats all around. If you go Jolly Charizard X, make sure you hit 300 speed, otherwise it is a waste of Nature. Adamant will always be more efficient in terms of EV spread.
  20. Thunderorange

    Thunderorange

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    At the moment in OU mega y is more common. My one is this:
    Abillity: Drought
    Solar Beam
    Fire blast
    Roost
    Focus blast/flamethrower
    As you can see the sun boosts its already awesome special fire moves and allows for awesome coverage with the one turn solar beam (killing water and rock types is great for it) as well as getting a recovery move so it can prolong its rampage.
  21. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs

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    Um, both of the EV spreads in the post you quoted have an Adamant nature. They're also running max Atk, so I'm not sure how you can claim that a spread with only 124 Atk EVs has the same stats all around (bar HP) as a spread with 252 Atk EVs and the same nature.
    Arikado likes this.
  22. Amaan

    Amaan

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    I recommend that you go with Focus Blast to deal with Heatran/Tyranitar, who would otherwise wall you.
    Jaguar360 likes this.
  23. Vengeance417

    Vengeance417

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    Earthquake is also a viable option, but Focus Blast hits T-Tar harder. It ultimately depends on what you have on your team and what kind of coverage you want.
    Jaguar360 likes this.
  24. Amaan

    Amaan

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    He can even run Dragon Pulse to avoid being walled by the Latis and Charizard X, but Focus Blast is overall better coverage.
  25. Thunderorange

    Thunderorange

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    Also focus blast is a special move and charizard y is a special attacker whereas earthquake is physical.

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