Checking / Countering the New LC Threats

[Vix]

Our mascot is win

Koffing (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP / 236 Def / 76 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Pain Split
- Clear Smog
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp

I haven't tested this but Koffing seems really good. Deals with all non-acrobatics Gligar, Scraggy, and has Thunderbolt for Murkrow. Pain Split for recovery, Clear Smog for set up, Thunderbolt for Murkrow, and Will-O-Wisp for physically sweepers. What could go wrong?!

I use this but replace t-bolt with fire blast for more SE hits against common threats like bronzor without psychic and ferroseed. Koffing is fun to send out against dd scraggy to watch your opponent's horror as they lose all of thier stat ups. It also halts all mienfoo with it's boss like 30 def.

 

[San_Pellegrino]

koffing however does have a limited scope in terms of checking mons, since all it is really built to do is beat Fighting types - which I would assume will become less used with the addition of Gligar and Murkrow.

still a good, underrated mon atm though

 

[danilo]

I use this but replace t-bolt with fire blast for more SE hits against common threats like bronzor without psychic and ferroseed. Koffing is fun to send out against dd scraggy to watch your opponent's horror as they lose all of thier stat ups. It also halts all mienfoo with it's boss like 30 def.

Tbolt is to beat Murkrow. I haven't seen any TormentKrow, but it looks like Koffing losses to that. This set beats all non-acro gligar, which is nice. I tested this a little and I'm happy with it, as it beats some gligar variants, some murkrow and fighting types. It's main advantage over Bronzor is it's ability to repeatedly take fighting type attacks, as well as t-bolt for krow.

 

[Ray Jay]

A set to beat Misdreavus:


Mienfoo (M) @ Eviolite
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 156 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Payback
- Drain Punch
- U-turn

Al's set. With minimal investment, Mienfoo is capable of always living 2 Shadow Balls from Timid Misdreavus, and always will 2hko with Payback. Also notable for beating Scraggy, as most aren't running HJK these days so Mienfoo only needs to run Drain Punch to beat it. Taunt is useful as Jolly Mienfoo outspeeds and shuts down opposing Dwebble and Bronzor, which in turn allows it to come in later in the game with no entry hazard damage and thus be able to take the 2 Shadow Balls from Missy. Also notable with Snover and Murkrow, who hate taking residual damage and thus love the support from Taunt.

 

[San_Pellegrino]

also, rayjay, it is worth mentioning that taunt prevents misdreavus from using perish song.

 

[Furai]

I don't really see how Mienfoo counters Misdreavus when most carry Will-O-Wisp S:
He's not like Stunky who traps Missy to death, Missy can switch out whenever she can and is faster than Mienfoo, so Taunt will fail to prevent the WoW.

 

[KingTorterraXIV]

An Underratted that counters Gligar, Murkrow, and Misdreavus (especially ones that are bawlsy enough to go a sub)

SeaShells (Shellder) (F) @ Eviolite/Focus Sash
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 236 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Shell Smash
- Ice Shard
- Icicle Spear
- Rock Blast

It's kinda funny, nobody talks about Smash Shellder anymore, but it's still super strongth. Especially with dealign with the unbanned pokes. After a shell smash, shellder becomes abosuletly deadly. Substitue pokes like Gligar, Misdreavus and Murkrow. Icicle Spear deals with them. Rock Blast makes it aweosme when dealing with bulky pokes that resist Icicle Spear. Ice Shard, and the items are the crux of this set. Ice Shard basically makes this inmune to Sucker Punch, since after a Shell Smash, Shellder is almost always faster. Eviolite makes Shellder's unboosted DEF to 24. That's pretty good. Focus Sash ensures a Shell Smash, and with Ice Shard, it makes for ensured damage, usually doing alot of damage. Shellder has a bit of trouble getting around steels, but there usually pretty easy to check and counter.

 

[Crux]

Scarf Shellder does it better than that set, Eviolite / Sash Shellder is kinda dumb.

 

[spuds4ever]

I agree with crux. Shell-smash shellder can't really come in on murkrow or anything else. He can easily take an EQ from gligar but not another one at -1 possibly or even followed by a quick attack. Misdreavus can burn it. Offensive murkrow can easily shut him down with either taunt, or BB it when he sets-up and the kills with a sucker punch

 

[Methmite]

Well Its worth noting that when priority is tied, it goes back to highest speed wins. In otherwords, Gligar and Murkrow will both be out sped and OHKO'd by a +2 SE ice shard; even when using their own priority.

 

[Ray Jay]

I don't really see how Mienfoo counters Misdreavus when most carry Will-O-Wisp S:
He's not like Stunky who traps Missy to death, Missy can switch out whenever she can and is faster than Mienfoo, so Taunt will fail to prevent the WoW.

First of all, I don't know that you can say "most" carry it when in reality I'd say it's maybe half. Also, let's consider the fact that if Misdreavus carries Will-O-Wisp, it likely is the opponents switch in to Mienfoo. In other words, they come in and eat a Payback (or more likely, a Taunt) while you can then switch out on the next turn to something that doesn't mind WoW. Also, Stunky does trap Missy but Stunky's usefulness really ends there. Sure, it can explode; Mienfoo acts as a switch in late game with some actual utility beyond three Dark-type moves.

 

[iss]

Tirtouga @ Splash Plate
Sturdy | Jolly
84 HP / 212 Atk / 12 Def / 180 Spe
- Shell Smash
- Stone Edge
- Aqua Tail
- Aqua Jet

Murkrow can't even come close to touching this set outside of FeatherDance, which you use other Pokemon to deal with. If your opponent lacks Croagunk or a fast Choice Scarfer not weak to Aqua Jet, it's pretty much GG. Stone Edge OHKOes Misdreavus and Murkrow, Aqua Tail OHKOes Gligar, Mienfoo, and Scraggy. Gligar is a great partner for being a great switchin into Croagunk as well as setting up Stealth Rock. Staryu is useful for Rapid Spin, as if you can keep hazards off the field you can do things like turn a +2/+2 Scraggy sweep into your own sweep by Shell Smashing on the Sturdy. Overall an excellent Pokemon for this metagame and definitely excellent.

 

[Furai]

First of all, I don't know that you can say "most" carry it when in reality I'd say it's maybe half. Also, let's consider the fact that if Misdreavus carries Will-O-Wisp, it likely is the opponents switch in to Mienfoo. In other words, they come in and eat a Payback (or more likely, a Taunt) while you can then switch out on the next turn to something that doesn't mind WoW. Also, Stunky does trap Missy but Stunky's usefulness really ends there. Sure, it can explode; Mienfoo acts as a switch in late game with some actual utility beyond three Dark-type moves.

Ah, so this Mienfoo is designed to kill Misdreavus on the switch, am I right?

Still a bit shaky though, but who knows how effective it is since I didn't test it. I probably should..!!

 

[spuds4ever]

@ iss, I don't see how that really counters murkrow. Anyone who knows what they're doing will taunt it and kill with a couple of sucker punches and he'll often have to break his sub if he's switching in. And, as mentioned, feather dance really breaks him. I think there are much better counters to murkrow myself, like defensive gligar with hypercutter.

 

[Ray Jay]

@ iss, I don't see how that really counters murkrow. Anyone who knows what they're doing will taunt it and kill with a couple of sucker punches and he'll often have to break his sub if he's switching in. And, as mentioned, feather dance really breaks him. I think there are much better counters to murkrow myself, like defensive gligar with hypercutter.

A vast, vast majority of Murkrows are not running Taunt at this point. Drill Peck is resisted. Substitute is perhaps the best point of your argument, but the FeatherDance Calm Mind sets are often not running Substitute. Defensive Gligar is not a counter to MixKrow or ScarfKrow (which commonly run Icy Wind), while this set is a counter to offensive SubRoost and MixKrow. It's a trade off.

 

[prem]

tirtouga does not resist sucker punch.

also tirtouga is a great mon in this meta, but i dont really think of it as a counter or check because it can only beat them AFTER a shell smash. all of them also have priority (though gligar really never does use quick attack lol) and a se attack to use to get it to sturdy then priorty to finish off the tirtouga.

 

[iss]

Anyone who knows what they're doing will taunt it and kill with a couple of sucker punches and he'll often have to break his sub if he's switching in.

Like Ray Jay said, not many Murkrow use Taunt. Even less use it in conjunction with Sucker Punch. "Anyone who knows what they're doing" will obviously Aqua Jet on the Sucker Punch, which is a 2HKO on physical SubKrow.

And, as mentioned, feather dance really breaks him.

Murkrow still doesn't enjoy a STAB Stone Edge.

212 -2 Atk Tirtouga Stone Edge vs 196 HP/100 Def Eviolite Murkrow: 48% - 60%

Find me a common physical attacker that can do that much. If your counter to Tirtouga is switching in FeatherDance Murkrow, you're dead. In addition, say Murkrow is weakened from, say, Stealth Rock and is forced to Roost. If Tirtouga Shell Smashes on the Roost, a +0 Stone Edge is often an OHKO (always when followed up by Aqua Jet, which should be used).

While I wouldn't call Tirtouga a counter to FeatherDance Murkrow, I wouldn't call FeatherDance Murkrow anything remotely close to a check to Tirtouga.

I think there are much better counters to murkrow myself, like defensive gligar with hypercutter.

Defensive Gligar cannot touch Murkrow at all aside from Toxic. Your best bet is probably Swords Dance Acrobatics, but MixKrow and even physical SubKrow walk all over that. Gligar is a Murkrow check, not a Murkrow counter.

 

[spuds4ever]

Some fair points, iss. With the featherdance drop though, murkrow can just spam roost fishing for the miss, which shouldn't be too hard to get. Or if you get a lowish roll, he can still featherdance you again and roost it off.

Though I agree that he would be a good counter to offensive murkrow not running taunt because the sucker punch will still hit before aqua jet without the smash boost.


Anyway, I was thinking of this as a misdreavus counter.

Taillow @choice scarf
EVs: 236 atk, 236 spd
Guts
Jolly
Brave Bird
Pursuit
U-turn
Return

This can switch in on a shadow ball or even better, a will-o-wisp. Pursuit is a 3HKO on defensive forms or a 2HKO on offensive forms, both of which he'll outspeed, he will also survive a 2HKO from HP fighting courtsey of his flying type on defensive forms so with a bit of careful pivoting, you can check-mate misdreavus pretty well. He also dosen't have to rely on sucker punch like stunky so she dosen't get a chance to get a nasty plot/will-o-wisp/substitute.

 

[Crux]

That is a terrible Misdreavus counter, can we actually test stuff before we post it please. Some sets including but not limited to the Taillow set are pretty pathetic...

 

[spuds4ever]

That is a terrible Misdreavus counter, can we actually test stuff before we post it please. Some sets including but not limited to the Taillow set are pretty pathetic...

I would appreciate it if you would give a reason why. As to me, it just seems like brainless criticism for the sake of criticism. I understand if it's poor, but if you could give me some input on how to improve it, I would be much obliged. I have tested it a little, and it did do pretty well.

 

[Crux]

It is frail as fuck and offensive Misdreavus rapes it, it is not strong enough to do anything to defensive Misdrevus sets as Pursuit is apparently a 3HKO (in which time you are dead since you failed to take into account Stealth Rocks) and it is set up bait for Misdreavus because it can switch in on choice locked normal moves unless you run scrappy and if you run scrappy you are crushed by will-o-wisp.

So basically every Misdreavus set doesnt care about your Taillow set at all that is why it is not a counter?

 

[spuds4ever]

It is frail as fuck and offensive Misdreavus rapes it, it is not strong enough to do anything to defensive Misdrevus sets as Pursuit is apparently a 3HKO (in which time you are dead since you failed to take into account Stealth Rocks) and it is set up bait for Misdreavus because it can switch in on choice locked normal moves unless you run scrappy and if you run scrappy you are crushed by will-o-wisp.

So basically every Misdreavus set doesnt care about your Taillow set at all that is why it is not a counter?

Ok, so defensive misdreavus 3hkoes it with HP fighting and offensive misdreavus 2hkoes it. Taillow does the same but out-speeds it with the scarf, if you keep rocks down and have something that can easily bait a shadow ball (like natu who also pretty much guarentees sr down for a good while). Also, if you use normal moves on a choice pokemon while they have a ghost around, frankly, you're not so clever. But misdreavus is a very difficult pokemon to counter and I'm merely suggesting my humble opinion for a counter other than stunky. But if you have a better suggestion. Please share.

 

[Crux]

If it has trouble beating every Misdreavus set ever invented, than it is not a counter as it poses no immediate threat "oops i set up a nasty plot you are now dead swept gg" Taillow is set up bait for Misdreavus and since Taillow can not safely switch in most of the time if the player you are up against is any good, nor can it pose any threat to MisD at all, it is not a counter.

 

[spuds4ever]

If it has trouble beating every Misdreavus set ever invented, than it is not a counter as it poses no immediate threat "oops i set up a nasty plot you are now dead swept gg" Taillow is set up bait for Misdreavus and since Taillow can not safely switch in most of the time if the player you are up against is any good, nor can it pose any threat to MisD at all, it is not a counter.

It doesn't though. It's just a matter of baiting the will-o-wisp or shadowball. Yes, there's prediction, but that can be argued for every counter to anything pretty much. If being able to switch in on everything (or the vast majority) MisD can throw at it and come out on top is your definition of a previously banned pokemon is your idea of a counter, I'd like to hear your idea.

 

[macle]

so you get the switch in but then you die from icy wind or a thunderbolt. That's a really great check......