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Claw Sharpen
- Thread starter Banryu
- Start date
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...no. Everything that would use Dragon Rush gets either Swords Dance or Dragon Dance, both of which are far superior to Claw Sharpen. :\
No.
...well, maybe. Special Dark and Physical Fitghting would be better. :0 This is thought out perhaps a little better than the last suggestion, but Zoroark doesn't really have the movepool for it.
I'm getting really tired of telling people... do NOT suggest a Claw Sharpen set if the Pokemon using it already gets a better boosting move (namely, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Bulk Up, or anything that boosts Attack + something more useful than accuracy). Claw Sharpen on any Dragon Pokemon is a perfect example, with the possible exception of Flygon, who still doesn't use it well.
Togekiss learns Extremespeed at Lv00; i.e., via Heart Scale.
dragon rush with swords dance is pretty much a 200 BP move, with a 25% chance to miss thats an average of 150 BP
with claw sharpen its pretty much 150 BP with 100% accuracy, same average damage but more reliable
while swords dance and dragon dance would help your other moves more, you can still not say they are 'far superior' because its not true
though in my opinion its just a shame there was no SpAtk version of it, that would have been significantly more useful(zap cannon, purgatory, blizzard, focus blast, hydro pump etc.)
Dragon Claw, after a Swords Dance, has 160 BP and 100% accuracy. Outrage reaches 240/100%. I'd call that superior to 200/75% and 150/100%.
Added CS Reciever Hustlekiss and HypnoSharpen Persian to the OP and removed Washibon, as it wasn't very interesting.
I was referring to Claw Sharpen when I said that Togekiss 'doesn't learn the move'. :0 Sorry for the confusion.
Actually, I pretty much can. :0 It's kind of hard to deny that a +2 boost in Attack or a +1 boost in both Attack and Speed are far better for sweeping than a +1 boost to Attack and Accuracy. :\ If you don't have the bulk to tank (why Bulk Up is better than CS too, BTW) or the speed to sweep, then you're going to have to switch out a lot, basically making Claw Sharpen a waste of a turn and a waste of a moveslot. As for the dragon moves:
Entirely true, but the flinch chance still interests me. Particularly using Garchomp under sandstorm - the 20% flinch rate coupled with the 20% evasion rate just strikes me as something that would be tonnes of fun to play around with, even if it (probably) wouldn't be as usable as SD Outrage's outright power. *shrugs*
It would patch up Stone Edge's crappy accuracy, too, though.
Are you people kidding me? Claw sharpen is HUGE for flygon!
I'm still disappointed that he doesn't get dragon dance, but I really feel like game freak threw him a bone here. IIRC claw sharpen is flygons first and only boosting move.
With salamence, garchomp and latias in ubers, flygon is the fastest dragon in OU.
Life orbed STAB outrage and EQ off 448 attack are going to hurt.
Flygon @ Life orb
4HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly
- Claw Sharpen
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack/Stone Edge
I'm still disappointed that he doesn't get dragon dance, but I really feel like game freak threw him a bone here. IIRC claw sharpen is flygons first and only boosting move.
With salamence, garchomp and latias in ubers, flygon is the fastest dragon in OU.
Life orbed STAB outrage and EQ off 448 attack are going to hurt.
Flygon @ Life orb
4HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Jolly
- Claw Sharpen
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack/Stone Edge
If Latias, Salamence, and Garchomp were still Ubers, then CS Flygon might stand a chance of being useful, yes. :0 However as it is, the policy for 5th Gen analyses/discussion is to treat everything as being in one big standard tier... Even if we assume that the obviously-Uber dragons are to be banned, Flygon has a poor time competing with all the new and returning Dragon-type threats: SD Garchomp thoroughly outclasses CS Flygon in all stat categories, as well as the boost... Dragonite gets DD and a far better priority attack, and Sazandora/Landlos are Flygon's competition for Choice Scarf and Band sets respectively. If Flygon stays OU, it's really gonna have a hard time fitting in... I can see Claw Sharpen possibly being useful in lower tiers if it gets dropped to them, but even then it might be outclassed by DD Altaria, who can outspeed Flygon after one boost. :\ It's really not all it's cracked up to be, unfortunately...
If a Serene Grace Pokemon got it, I might be interested. :0 It might be fun as a gimmick, I suppose, sort of like using Muddy Water over Surf on Swampert... though it's not really in the same family, as anything coming off of Claw Sharpen isn't going to hurt nearly as much as Chomp's attacks coming off of an SD.
So pretty much, Claw Sharpen is useless on anyone with a different boosting move. :0 I've repeatedly said this and will continue to do so as long as people aren't getting it. >____o Even with guys whose only boosting move is Claw Sharpen, it STILL might not be an effective way to go, as Flygon and Aggron, among others, demonstrate.
Garchomp @ Life Orb
Jolly Nature
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Claw Sharpen
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
it may be inferior to ScarfChomp or SD-Chomp but it can use dragon rush and stone edge without worring about their shaky accuracy.
Flygon can also run this set but is outclassed in every way by garchomp, flygon's only niche over it (U-turn) is pointless since it needs to set up
Hell, I can see flygon dropping to BL/UU sooner or later with the arival of sazandora (they can scout and sweep better then flygon), not to mention salamence and garchomp. I doubt flygon is too good for BL/UU anyway and will fit in just fine.
How flygon even joined OU, I will never know
Jolly Nature
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed
- Claw Sharpen
- Dragon Rush
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
it may be inferior to ScarfChomp or SD-Chomp but it can use dragon rush and stone edge without worring about their shaky accuracy.
Flygon can also run this set but is outclassed in every way by garchomp, flygon's only niche over it (U-turn) is pointless since it needs to set up
Hell, I can see flygon dropping to BL/UU sooner or later with the arival of sazandora (they can scout and sweep better then flygon), not to mention salamence and garchomp. I doubt flygon is too good for BL/UU anyway and will fit in just fine.
How flygon even joined OU, I will never know
Keep in mind that this is not a tiering discussion (although yes, I fear that as well. :\ FYI: Flygon was OU before Garchomp existed. -___-').
Also, it has been stated umpteen times that Claw Sharpen is inferior in every way to Swords Dance. FYI, +2 Dragon Claw does more than +1 Dragon Rush does. >___>
I've come a long way from my boundless hatred of this move, please do not bring it back by suggesting stupid/gimmicky (and not even fun-gimmicky!) Claw Sharpen sets.
Also, it has been stated umpteen times that Claw Sharpen is inferior in every way to Swords Dance. FYI, +2 Dragon Claw does more than +1 Dragon Rush does. >___>
I've come a long way from my boundless hatred of this move, please do not bring it back by suggesting stupid/gimmicky (and not even fun-gimmicky!) Claw Sharpen sets.
he definitely is allowed to state facts. If you use a move to boost only ONE move, it is vastly inferior to using a move to boost EVERY move. It's all because of this little thing called coverage
Chillachino:wow,a move that boost accuracy and attack!? I'll be awsome!!!
Game(troll)freak: Foolish mammal, no claw sharpen for u!!! But u can learn it Meloetta!
Chillachino: ;-;
Game(troll)freak: Foolish mammal, no claw sharpen for u!!! But u can learn it Meloetta!
Chillachino: ;-;
Can Empoleon be a good user of Hone Claws?
Empoleon-Leftovers (Torrent/Competitiveness) Not sure which to use.
Brave (Atk+, Spd-)
4 HP/160 Atk/200 SpAtk/80 Def/64 SpDef
Aqua Jet
Hone Claws
Blizzard
Earthquake/Brick Break/Rock Tomb
Aqua Jet for priority & STAB, also great w/ Hone Claws. Blizzard gets 93% accuracy after 1 use of Hone Claws & takes care of Dragon, Ground, & Grass threats. Earthquake is a given, but I also thought Brick Break would be useful for those floating Steels that Earthquake hates to miss. Rock Tomb might seem strange, but I like the Speed drop it gives to opponents. This however, leaves me susceptible to those same Steels. Anything I can do to improve Empoleon's chances of using this move?
Empoleon-Leftovers (Torrent/Competitiveness) Not sure which to use.
Brave (Atk+, Spd-)
4 HP/160 Atk/200 SpAtk/80 Def/64 SpDef
Aqua Jet
Hone Claws
Blizzard
Earthquake/Brick Break/Rock Tomb
Aqua Jet for priority & STAB, also great w/ Hone Claws. Blizzard gets 93% accuracy after 1 use of Hone Claws & takes care of Dragon, Ground, & Grass threats. Earthquake is a given, but I also thought Brick Break would be useful for those floating Steels that Earthquake hates to miss. Rock Tomb might seem strange, but I like the Speed drop it gives to opponents. This however, leaves me susceptible to those same Steels. Anything I can do to improve Empoleon's chances of using this move?
As a solely physical set up move it's outclassed by SD on anything that isn't running 2+ moves with 85% acc or less, like Megahorn and Stone Edge. High BP Special moves tend give better coverage but have crap acc., whereas high BP Physical moves have stat drops, recoil etc. Essentially, the Acc boost benefits special moves more whereas the Atk boost, well...
Ultimately, I think Sharpen....er..Hone Claws best utility lies in Special sweepers who have a useble attack stat and have access to special moves with shitty acc. such as Focus Miss, Blizzard, Thunder etc outside of weather, essentially becoming mixed sweepers.
Ultimately, I think Sharpen....er..Hone Claws best utility lies in Special sweepers who have a useble attack stat and have access to special moves with shitty acc. such as Focus Miss, Blizzard, Thunder etc outside of weather, essentially becoming mixed sweepers.
Makes sense. So would sets like these be viable?
Empoleon-Leftovers (Torrent/Competitiveness) Not sure which to use.
Brave (Atk+, Spd-)
4 HP/160 Atk/200 SpAtk/80 Def/64 SpDef
Hydro Pump
Hone Claws
Blizzard
Earthquake/Brick Break
Zoroark-Life Orb/Leftovers (Illusion)
Mild (SpAtk+, Def-)
96 Atk/160 SpAtk/252 Spd
Night Slash
Hone Claws
Fire Blast
Focus Blast
Sceptile-Life Orb (Overgrow)
Mild (SpAtk+, Def-)
96 Atk/160 SpAtk/252 Spd
Giga Drain
Focus Blast
Hone Claws
Rock Slide
Blaziken-Life Orb/Leftovers (Blaze/Speed Boost) Not sure which to use.
Naughty (Atk+, SpDef-)/Rash (SpAtk+, SpDef-)
100 Atk/208 SpAtk/200 Spd
Blaze Kick/Fire Blast
Hone Claws
Sky Uppercut/Focus Blast/Stone Edge
Hidden Power (Ice)/(Grass)/(Electric)
I have personally found Aianto to be an absolute beast when paired with an encore user. encore something it resists, come in and claw sharpen. Then you get like 3 kills with a life orb attached and it's fast as shit. Obviously using hustle.
What a fantastic little sweeper this guy is!
Blaziken should really be using swords dance instead of hone claws.
What a fantastic little sweeper this guy is!
Blaziken should really be using swords dance instead of hone claws.
This. I have experimented with Aianto and, while my team needs some work, he himself always does really well.
Also, no to Claw Sharpen Blaziken and Sceptile, the former is better with just Swords Danc, and the latter doesn't really have the stats to go mixed except in special circumstances (IE, Special with EQ for Heatran). I have similar concerns about the Empoleon set, although the Zoroark set is pretty interesting.
Imo, Aerodactyl is actually an amazing Hone Claws abuser. With it it can fully abuse Stone Edge, as well as Aqua Tail and the elemental fangs.
That actually isn't a bad idea, I can't believe I didn't think of that.
It's a shame it's neutral to Mach Punch(deadly with its paper defense) and weak to Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet. It does bring a resistance to Extremespeed, which is great but I don't think it'll help much.
The only elemental fang I'd find useful would be fire, though, 4x effective against some of his best counters, like Scizor and Nattorei. Now the question is, can a +1 fire fang OHKO nattorei?
i've been considering trick room attackers, and dragonite caught my eye
Dragonite / miracle scale
Brave @ Macho brace
252 att/ 252 hp
hone claws
dragon rush
earthquake
stone edge/ fire blast
its a bit gimmicky, but i once read that we are not using a pokemon to optmize its usage; we are looking for pokemon x for role y and i wanted a dragon type trick room sweeper. i was stuck using dragon claw back in gen 4 (and no set up move)
Dragonite / miracle scale
Brave @ Macho brace
252 att/ 252 hp
hone claws
dragon rush
earthquake
stone edge/ fire blast
its a bit gimmicky, but i once read that we are not using a pokemon to optmize its usage; we are looking for pokemon x for role y and i wanted a dragon type trick room sweeper. i was stuck using dragon claw back in gen 4 (and no set up move)
The reason why aero sucks as a claw sharpener is its defenses. Aianto has so many resistances and a great defense (shit sp def though). It's not hard to find a hole to throw down a claw sharpen, especially with choicers around or an encore user on your team. Not to mention Hustle, his attack, his speed and his decent coverage. If ONLY he got Earthquake.
Well, Aero did have some success with a LO set last generation despite his horrid defenses. He's really fast and has great coverage in QuakeEdge, and now he has the option of boosting up if he can force something out.
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