[COMPLETED] Gourgeist-S

alexwolf

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After some more testing with Gourgeist-S i think that it should be faster. I am using a 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spe with Jolly spread, with enough Speed to outrun Adamant Mega Kangaskhan, Timid Rotom-W, and Jolly Excadrill. One of the biggest pros of Gourgeist-S over Gourgeist-H is the ability to outspeed Mega Kangaskhan and burn it before it can 2HKO you with Crunch, and not using enough Speed to outrun it is a waste. Also, i didn't really like Phantom Force on such a fast Pokemon, as the opponent will often bring in something slower on the charge turn and will manage to hit you on the turn that Phantom Force connects. Seed Bomb, Shadow Sneak, and Sub have all been better options on the last slot, but Sub is better left for AC as having no attacking moves hurts a lot in many cases. Seed Bomb / Shadow Sneak should be the moves on the last slot, as having a fast Seed Bomb is very useful against Rotom-W, which almost always stays in to either burn Gourgeist or to use Volt Switch.
 

Super Mario Bro

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After some more testing with Gourgeist-S i think that it should be faster. I am using a 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 Spe with Jolly spread
I prefer the spread 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spd, which lets it beat Jolly Lucario and Kangaskhan before they mega evolve. The bulk it gives up is negligible, so I don't see why not.
 
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GatoDelFuego

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Shroomisaur

REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Gourgeist is a great spinblocker with a useful Ghost / Grass typing.</li>
<li>It possesses solid physical bulk and useful resistances to common physical moves.</li>
<li>Gourgeist-Small is surprisingly fast, able to land a fast Will-O-Wisp on common physical attackers such as max Speed Jolly Scizor, Breloom, Adamant Mamoswine, (AC) and Dragonite.</li>
<li>The Small forme makes efficient use of Leech Seed and Pain Split for healing.</li>
<li>Frisk allows Gourgeist to scout opponent's sets.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Gourgeist-S has poor special bulk.</li>
<li>It's weak to common special attacks and Pursuit.<li>
<li>Gourgeist-S has low offensive stats.</li>
<li>Fast Taunt or Substitute users ruin Gourgeist-S.</li>
<li>It faces obvious competition for a teamslot from Gourgeist-H, which is bulkier overall.</li>
<li>Gourgeist also faces heavy competition from Trevenant, which has more reliable recovery with Harvest.</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>Spinblocker<br />
move 1: Will-O-Wisp<br />
move 2: Leech Seed<br />
move 3: Pain Split / Protect<br />
move 4: Phantom Force / Seed Bomb<br />
ability: Frisk<br />
item: Leftovers<br />
evs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 116 Spe<br />
nature: Impish</p>

<p>Is bigger always better? The Small forme of Gourgeist functions as a surprisingly fast spinblocker with solid physical bulk and many tools to harass the opponent. With base 99 Speed and 116 Speed EVs, Gourgeist-S can outspeed many common threats such as Jolly Scizor and Breloom, as well as Adamant Dragonite and Mamoswine. This allows Gourgeist-S to land a Will-O-Wisp and cripple the opponent before they get a chance to strike, whereas larger Gourgeist formes would take a full-powered hit. Combined with defensive investment and multiple ways to restore its HP, Gourgeist-S makes an excellent check to many physical attackers, (AC) including popular Rapid Spin users Donphan and Excadrill.</p>

<p>With solid Speed, high Defense, and low HP, Gourgeist-S makes excellent use of Leech Seed, which inflicts additional passive damage to the opponent while restoring Gourgeist's health. Combined with Pain Split, Gourgeist has solid sustainability and can quickly sap the strength of a healthy opponent. Protect can be used for scouting and stalling against opponents faster than Gourgeist. Substitute is also an option that helps protect Gourgeist from status. The final moveslot is Gourgeist's source of direct damage. STAB Phantom Force is Gourgeist's most powerful move and also allows it to stall for an extra turn of Leftovers recovery, Leech Seed healing, or burn damage before striking. However, it is a two-turn attack that locks Gourgeist in, allowing the opponent a free switch to a counter. This is especially bad if the opponent switches in a Pursuit user. Seed Bomb is a more reliable option, but has poor coverage and leaves Gourgeist walled by opposing Grass-types. Fire Blast with a Bold nature is a unique option to hit opposing Grass- or Steel-types, but with base 58 Special Attack its damage is pitiful against anything that isn't weak to Fire.</p>

<p>Gourgeist does an excellent job of blocking Rapid Spin for your team, so it pairs well with entry hazard users. Gourgeist also suffers from poor Special Defense, so specially defensive teammates make good partners for Gourgeist. Tyranitar is a perfect match, combining excellent type synergy, incredible Special Defense, and access to Stealth Rock. Greninja is a more offensive teammate and can set up Spikes. Pokemon such as Blissey, Florges, (AC) or Sylveon also have good synergy with Gourgeist, handling special attacks with ease while providing Cleric or Wish support. Since Because Gourgeist relies on passive damage to wear down opponents, it is easily set up on by fast Substitute users. Reliable teammates with phazing moves, such as Mandibuzz, are a great choices to pair with Gourgeist, (RC) because they can prevent Pokemon from setting up behind substitutes as well as rack up entry hazard damage. </p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While Gourgeist has excellent physical bulk, it is frail on the special side and has several common weaknesses. Special attackers such as Gengar, Greninja, Noivern, and Mega Charizard Y can easily defeat Gourgeist with their super effective STABs. Volcarona and Talonflame can boost in Gourgeist's face, only fearing the rare Rock Slide. Gourgeist also struggles against Grass-types with reliable recovery, such as Roserade or Venusaur. Since As Gourgeist-S relies on passive damage, any fast Pokemon with Taunt can shut it down. Crobat is an excellent example of a fast Taunter user that also threatens with a STAB Brave Bird. Finally, any fast Substitute user can block Gourgeist's Will-O-Wisp and Leech Seed attempts and force it out.</p>

1/1
Remember stuff like "super effective" instead of "super effective" and serial commas for the future :)
 
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Shroomisaur

Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Hey there guys, sorry for being away for a few days. Let me give my thoughts on a few things.
Shroomisaur

1/1
Remember stuff like "super effective" instead of "super effective" and serial commas for the future :)
First of all, thank you for the check Gato. This was my first C&C work so I'm not surprised it had a few more problems! All changes have been implemented.

I prefer the spread 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spd, which lets it beat Jolly Lucario and Kangaskhan before they mega evolve. The bulk it gives up is negligible, so I don't see why not.
I saw your post in the Gourgeist discussion so thanks for posting your thoughts here as well! Since my original set is over a month old I'm not surprised it could use an updated spread; no one realized what a monster Kanga is at first. I agree that beating Adamant Kahn, and Jolly Luke/Kahn before mega evolution, is a huge bonus. I haven't had a chance to test it myself but it looks like an excellent spread, so I'll go ahead and update it now.

The added speed will help you do a lot of other cool things too, my personal favorite is WoW-ing Jolly Gyarados before it can Taunt. It will also outspeed all non-scarf Rotom-W, allowing it to use Seed Bomb before the WoW.

Speaking of Seed Bomb, I'm going to go ahead and make that the primary slash in the final slot since Rotom-W is ubiquitous and fast STAB Grass-type attacks are rare in OU.
0 Atk Gourgeist-Small Seed Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 144-170 (59.5 - 70.2%)
0 Atk Gourgeist-Small Seed Bomb vs. 248 HP / 240+ Def Rotom-W: 104-126 (34.3 - 41.5%)
 

Super Mario Bro

All we ever look for
I would go ahead and make Protect the primary move in the 3rd slot as well. Gourgeist is a fantastic scout due to Frisk, and Pain Split is a pretty crappy method of recovery anyway.
 

Shroomisaur

Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Well, I've been testing out the faster spread, and I love it. Just had a match where my opponent's Kangaskahn predicted my switch and used Scrappy PuP, but it didn't matter because Gourgeist-S then outspeeds even Jolly ones and can land the WoW before the next turn.
I would go ahead and make Protect the primary move in the 3rd slot as well. Gourgeist is a fantastic scout due to Frisk, and Pain Split is a pretty crappy method of recovery anyway.
That's a good thought SMB, thanks for the feedback! The passive damage usually makes Pain Split difficult to use effectively. 90% of the time, it's simply WoW/Leech Seed. On that note, I don't find myself using the final moveslot much at all either... Seed Bomb is the best choice for hitting Rotom-W and finishing off TTar/Mamo, but could Substitute work there? alexwolf I know you hate having no attacks, but Gourgeist-S outspeeds Taunters like Gliscor, Gyarados, and Skarmory (and couldn't hurt them anyway). Faster Taunters like Crobat or Gengar already beat Gourgeist too, so I don't really think having no attacks is a big issue. Sub against Rotom-W is as nice as Seed Bomb since it blocks WoW and Volt Switch can't break it.

I don't see much use for Shadow Sneak in the final slot. A 60 BP move from uninvested base 85 Attack is pitifully weak... it's weaker than 0 SpA Fire Blast. What do you say to Seed Bomb alone (or slashed with Sub) in the final slot, with AC mentions of Sneak/Phantom Force? Although this is technically "done", I want to get your thoughts & approval on the 3rd/4th moveslots before I make any changes or mark it as complete.
 

alexwolf

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Yeah you are right Shroomisaur, and after testing SubSeed a bit more and talking with SMB, i agree with slashing Sub. Make the moveset like this:

move 1: Will-O-Wisp<br />
move 2: Leech Seed<br />
move 3: Protect / Pain Split<br />
move 4: Seed Bomb / Substitute<br />
 
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Shroomisaur

Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Yeah you are right Shroomisaur, and after testing SubSeed a bit more and talking with SMB, i agree with slashing Sub. Make the moveset like this:

move 1: Will-O-Wisp<br />
move 2: Leech Seed<br />
move 3: Protect / Pain Split<br />
move 4: Seed Bomb / Substitute<br />
Ok, everything has been updated and this looks good. Thanks Alex.

Our favorite small squash is Complete!
 

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