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Conkeldurr [All-Out Attacker] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Vertex, May 14, 2013.

  1. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Ready for GP


    Reasoning (open)
    Why this set deserves to be on-site:

    • Extra Coverage
    • Strong
    • Avoids residual damage form status and lack of coverage for BU
    • Longetivity greatly appreciated in this metagame
    • Physical BoltBeam coverage
    • No recoil

    Conkeldurr (All-Out Attacker)

    Code:
    [LIST]
    [*]Avoid QC Rejection [[COLOR=Blue]✓[/COLOR]]
    [*]QC Approved 2/3 [[COLOR=Blue]✓[/COLOR]]
    [*]Written [[COLOR=Blue]✓[/COLOR]]
    [*]QC Approved 3/3 
    [*]GP Approved 2/2 
    [*]Upload [Check]
    [/LIST]
    
    [​IMG]
    Gamefreak, give me Dragon Dance, or else...
    Skeleton (open)
    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Drain Punch
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: ThunderPunch
    move 4: Mach Punch / Fire Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • Extra Coverage, doesn't have to worry setting up like BU Conk. or lose precious HP from Status Orb
    • Drain Punch is still really powerful STAB, even with out Sheer Force, and recovers damage, mandatory for bulky attackers
    • Ice Punch and Thunderpunch gain the Sheer Force boost (Physical BoltBeam coeverage), both hitting 98 Base Power and having excellent range of coverage complementing Drain Punch
    • Mach Punch is useful priority to defeat weakened foes without the need to tank a hit
    • Stronger than Iron Fist Conk
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • 0 IVs with Brave Nature for Payback, if used
    • Choice Scarf or Choice Band Tyranitar eliminates many of its checks
    • Removing Physical walls: Infernape + Choice Band Terrakion
    • Chansey and Blissey sponge special attacks
    • Fire Punch
    • Rock Slide
    • Stone Edge isn't worth 2 BP for accuracy
    • Can trick opponents into thinking burn is counterproductive
    • Trick Room
    • Wish Support
    • Iron Fist
    • May bluff CB
    • Stealth Rock gets Conkeldurr many notable OHKOes




    [SET]
    name: All-Out Attacker
    move 1: Drain Punch
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: ThunderPunch
    move 4: Mach Punch / Fire Punch
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Sheer Force
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 116 SpD / 20 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Although this set might seem inferior to the status orb set, it has a couple advantages in stronger coverage moves and lack of recoil. While it is true that its STAB attacks are not boosted by Sheer Force and thus cause Life Orb damage, Drain Punch actually heals said damage; Mach Punch will be used sparingly. The presence of Team Preview also helps, discouraging the opponent from using status inflicting moves, such as Toxic and Scald; however, Conkeldurr shouldn't be switching into those moves regardless. This version of Conkeldurr specializes in wallbreaking and can function as an excellent partner for or beneficiary of Trick Room teams. Stall teams will usually have trouble when facing Conkeldurr, especially if it is paired with Reuniclus.</p>

    <p>Drain Punch is this set's primary attack, being backed by STAB and a Life Orb boost while recovering its HP. However, you must be wary that using it may give away that Conkeldurr is not running Guts. ThunderPunch and Ice Punch are Conkeldurr's coverage moves; the former is particularly useful against bulky Water-types, such as Jellicent, while Ice Punch is handy versus bulky Ground- and Grass-types&mdash;most Hippowdon and Landorus-T (after Intimidate) are 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. Mach Punch is used to chip off the last portion of the foe's health without having to take a hit. It also comes in handy when facing Pokemon such as Kyurem-B, Tyranitar, and Weavile. Fire Punch is an alternative to defeat Jirachi, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Metagross much more easily; for this it is the best option on Trick Room teams.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>20 Speed EVs are used to outpace Hippowdon so that Conkeldurr can 2HKO it before it can use Slack Off. Reuniclus and Tyranitar pair up great with Conkeldurr as well; Tyranitar can remove many of Conkeldurr's checks, such as Gengar and Latias, while Reuniclus can set up Trick Room and has good synergy with Conkeldurr. Note that 0 IVs and a Brave nature should be used if there is Trick Room support and that Hammer Arm is a great option if Conkeldurr is used on a Trick Room team to outspeed more enemies. This set is slow like the others, so Pokemon that can eliminate faster threats are good teammates. Conkeldurr struggles to defeat Pokemon such as Skarmory, who can retaliate with Brave Bird, so it is ideal to have a Pokemon that can remove these counters. Infernape is a decent choice for this, as it can hit hard both physically and specially, as are Choice Scarf Terrakion and Keldeo. Conkeldurr has poor special bulk, so Chansey and Blissey are good teammates; they can also pass Wishes to Conkeldurr, which will increase its longevity.</p>

    <p>Rock Slide can be used, but it has less useful coverage than ThunderPunch and Ice Punch; if you choose to run Rock-type coverage, be sure to run it over Stone Edge, as the power difference is negligible factoring in Sheer Force and is not worth a 10% drop in accuracy. Iron Fist is an interesting alternative ability for this set because it boosts all of Conkeldurr's attacks, but it causes Conkeldurr to suffer from recoil. Spikes support is almost need if you run Iron Fist because it allows Conkeldurr to nab crucial OHKOs on Pokemon such as Jellicent, Celebi, Politoed, and non-physically defensive Hippowdon.</p>
  2. Masterclass

    Masterclass

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    I keep seeing this set and I still have one question, why rock slide? Ok we get it it's cool to have a stone edge that doesn't miss but really what's the point in having it? What are the possible pokemon that are weak to rock slide besides Volcarona in OU?

    That said, I prefer Thunder Punch that'll allow you to hit Jellicent, Starmie, Gyarados (water types basically), and it'll have the same base power as rock slide vs things like gengar which is a OHKO after SR. Ice punch Is for stuff like thundurus-t who otherwise absorbs tpunch, and ofcourse the obvious Gliscor and Lando-T.

    but yeah i think his moves should be Drain Punch/Ice Punch/Thunder Punch/Mach Punch I also think you should slash Hammer arm with drain punch
  3. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I think ThunderPunch should be slashed before Rock Slide IMO. What exactly does Rock Slide hit that ThunderPunch doesn't? ThunderPunch has the advantage of always 2HKOing Skarmory after Stealth Rock, while still hitting Gyarados. Rock Slide is only really useful for Volcarona, whom isn't that much of a problem anyway if Stealth Rock is up.

    EDIT: And there goes the ninja...
  4. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I don't see why this set deserves a spot in the analysis, when it's essentially the status orb set, with poorer coverage moves. Flame Orb only has 2.5% more recoil on average, but offers Conkeldurr significantly more power, the ability to avoid beat Pokemon that rely on Will-o-Wisp and access to boosted Facade. I'm not sure I like your move slashes either; I would never give up the ability to beat ghost types with Payback for Mach Punch.
  5. Box

    Box

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    We're looking at a Conkeldurr which is hitting much harder with a physical BoltBeam combination while taking no recoil at all when using these attacks. Granted, Drain Punch and Payback lose power over the Status Orb sets, but we have to keep in mind that Conkeldurr's longevity is greatly prolonged when using LO Sheer Force.

    Of course, you lose status immunity, but having a Conkeldurr that stays alive much longer and hits harder with coverage moves is a considerable benefit over the Orb set.
  6. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Did testing with it, and Thunderpunch works better. Recoil is a huge issue and limits Conkeldurr's longetivity and its coverage isn't poor. It has physical BoltBeam coverage and hits harder than status as status gets a 50% boost, while this gets a 60% boost.
  7. Masterclass

    Masterclass

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    Actually you're wrong, this set is different from the status orb set. You don't lose passive damage because Sheer force negates life orb recoil where as in the status orb you will lose 12.5% from flame orb each turn. Sheer force can also bluff a choice item, and it significantly powers thunder punch for example:

    252+ Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Conkeldurr ThunderPunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 302-356 (74.93 - 88.33%)

    252+ Atk Choice Band Conkeldurr ThunderPunch vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 266-314 (66 - 77.91%)
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Oh right, my mistake. On second thought, this set actually seems better than the vanilla Status Orb set.
  9. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    Although this set is very similar to the status Orb set, Conk really appreciates the zero recoil from Life Orb as well as extremely hard hitting elemental punches without having to use a Choice Band or a Status Orb. I would agree in saying that this set is similar to the Status Orb set, but Conk is perfectly capable of running an all-out attacking Sheer Force set. Many overlook Sheer Force on Conk, when it fact it is perfectly viable, and quite effective.
  10. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs Rule 51
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    Why would a Choice Band Conkeldurr be using ThunderPunch on Jellicent when it could be using Payback? Let me show you a more relevant calculation, this one regarding the Status Orb set.

    252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Payback (100 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 354-418 (87.84 - 103.72%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

    We also have to keep in mind that Sheer Force will only affect ThunderPunch and Ice Punch, and so if Conkeldurr uses either of its STAB moves, it still takes Life Orb recoil. That said, there are several advantages that I see with the Status Orb set. For one thing, it has a definite power advantage since Guts offers a 1.5 boost as opposed to a 1.3 Life Orb boost (not to mention that Stone Edge and a last-move Payback are still stronger than Sheer Force boosted Ice Punch and ThunderPunch). This extra power means that with stronger Drain Punch damage, the Guts set will actually be taking less net damage during that turn than the Life Orb set. In addition, when burned by the Flame Orb, you gain an immunity to any other forms of status. With Sheer Force, Conkeldurr not only loses this immunity, but it now becomes crippled by burns. The only real advantage I see with the Sheer Force set is that it takes less net passive damage every turn (although, again, it still loses HP from the Life Orb if it uses Drain Punch or Mach Punch). Sure, you can bluff a Choice set provided you only use one of the elemental punches, but that "mystery" can easily be solved with damage calculations.

    I'm just not seeing how this is so much better than the on-site set. Heck, I'd probably rather just use Iron Fist on this set and at least get a power boost for Drain Punch and Mach Punch too.
  11. tehy

    tehy

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    the problem with this set is that if I'm aware that you're running Sheer Force (And if it's the standard, I WILL be aware, because it's either lefties or this), it's so much easier to just status and stomp you. Especially so for burn.
  12. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn the hidden heart of the ocean
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    nobody actively tries to burn conkeldurr because 80% of them still run guts...the only way conk is getting burned is from a stray jellicent/starmie scald or whatever and you've gotta take that risk imo for all the added power that sheer force brings. maybe once this set becomes more standard (and it will) then people will be less averse to shooting w-o-w at conk but until then the surprise value and power boost outweigh the detriments of lacking guts.

    you need hammer arm in ac for those who dgf about hp. other than that looks pretty good
  13. tehy

    tehy

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    Nobody actively tries to burn conkeldurr...NOW.

    What if this set becomes the standard? as far as I recall, Conkeldurr is usually either lefties or Status orb and you can tell as soon as he comes in (Not that you try to status a Status orb mon, lol).If it's the standard and I see no lefties, i'm going to go ahead and burn. Worst-case scenario is usually Band, which i can play around and is in OO, or i statused before Orb activates. The only way to hide it is with no weather/hazards, or with a death switch-in. Not only that, but i'll be able to tell as soon as it attacks, so at best it's hiding itself for one turn. (Either from LO recoil or superstrong Sheer Force attacks).


    And i don't think it makes sense to approve a set if it'll be much less effective once everyone knows it exists. I don't even think it's a question of, like, say, expert belt Keldeo, which I might know exists but it could easily still be scarf until it hits se, etc. Once this is standard, I will always be able to figure it out. More to the point, I think most of us here will, and most good/medium players will.
  14. BKC

    BKC
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    i really like this set.

    qc approved 1/3
  15. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Maybe just slash Guts with Sheer Force, or give it an AC mention? I mean, you can run this set perfectly fine without Sheer Force, IMO.
  16. Box

    Box

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    IMO the unique qualities of this set are 1) it's ability to bluff Band and 2) the longevity it offers Conkeldurr. As such, Sheer Force should be the only ability listed.

    Guts LO plays differently because it turns Conkeldurr into a time bomb, much like Staraptor, but with immunity to status.

    As mentioned before a physical pseudo BoltBeam coming off 140 Base Attack, boosted by 56 (?) percent is formidable, more so than on the Choice set as you bait things like Gliscor with TPunch or Drain Punch before crushing his physically defensive bottom with Ice Punch. Indeed, Guts Payback, Drain Punch and SE do more, but calcs show that after SR and one layer of spikes, you still beat things like Jellicent.

    Derpmon here misses his extra 20% on DP and SE too, but lower recoil overall is a trade off. SE probably does less on average anyway thanks to shaky Accuracy.

    The main argument against this set should really be lack of status immunity rather than lack of power. Still, nobody is going to go right for the WoW on this guy, given the prospect of ridiculously powerful banded attacks it threatens.
  17. Masterclass

    Masterclass

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    If you paid like an ounce of attention to my post, you'd realize i was comparing guts to sheer force, nothing has to do with a choice band. I only added choice band because i didn't know how to add ''guts'' in the damage calculator. I personally don't think a Jellicent would ever stay in on a Conkeldurr if it sees status orb. But like we all said this set is completely different it offers longer life force for conkeldurr + powerful attacks. If you want to compare status orb with it then your only arguement should be facade and the fact it absorbs status.
  18. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    I doubt this, since your main attacks are still Drain Punch and Mach Punch, both of which take Life Orb recoil. You're only using Thunderpunch and Ice Punch for coverage, and they naturally would be less spammable than your STABs.
  19. ElectivireRocks

    ElectivireRocks Banned deucer.

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    Nobody tries to burn Conkeldurr? Say what?
    If Conk is running the standard BU set with Ice Punch as coverage then I'm more than happy of burning it with Jellicent's Scald (though it's debatale whether one would consider Scald's 30% burn chance a deliberate attempt to burn something or not) because even with a Guts boost Ice Punch will do pathetic damage and burn damage will only kill it faster.
  20. Agent Gibbs

    Agent Gibbs Rule 51
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    And if you had paid an ounce of attention to mine, you'd get my point. If you want to compare the two sets, do it realistically. Flame Orb Conkeldurr generally runs Payback for Jellicent, not Thunderpunch, and Payback is doing considerably more damage.

    I really think this longevity argument is being blown way out of proportion. As I mentioned earlier, Guts Conkeldurr will often have more net gain each turn from using Drain Punch (in my experience, its most spammable move) than LO Conkeldurr would. This particular Conkeldurr spread has 381 HP, and so burn damage is 47 while LO recoil is 38. Since the difference here is 9, as long as the Guts set is doing at least 20 more HP points of damage, it is coming out as more health efficient. As for Mach Punch, the difference here is minimal, since the passive damage is 12.5% vs 10%. The only significant difference in lifespan is when LO Conkeldurr is using ThunderPunch and Ice Punch, its two coverage moves.

    There are other arguments, such as the greater power (1.5 boost vs 1.3 is pretty significant). But let me turn this around and ask you, what advantages does this set have, exactly? You mention longevity, but the only significant difference here is when Conkeldurr is using its coverage moves (Guts Conkeldurr can even have more longevity when spamming Drain Punch).

    Oh, and there's also this argument about feigning a Choice Band set, but may I ask why exactly we're so concerned with doing that? This isn't like Expert Keldeo faking a Choice Scarf set. Choice Scarf sets alone make up nearly half of all Keldeo, and since it is a very common and powerful threat, faking such a set can reap great rewards. Choice Band Conkeldurr, on the other hand, only consists of about 3.6% of all Conkeldurr as of last month. Sheer Force was used almost as much as Choice Band was. So this is not some really common set whose usage we could abuse to throw people off.

    Not only that, but as mentioned before, there are ways of easily discerning whether or not this is a Choice Band set. If you use either coverage move, a simple damage calculation can tell you whether this was a Choice Band set, a Sheer Force Life Orb set, or otherwise. If you use either of your STABs at any point in the match, it will become obvious that you are running a Life Orb set. Even worse, if your opponent calculates the damage and finds out you are running Sheer Force, or if they see the Life Orb recoil come and go as you go from STAB to coverage move, they will know that it is safe to burn your Conkeldurr and cripple it for the rest of the match since you're obviously not using Guts.
  21. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

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    I think we should just keep that set in OO it is really not that great and the fact that your Stabs don't get a Sheer Force boost and take LO recoil makes it painfully obvious you are not using Guts unless you predict a switch-in. It is cool to nail Skarmory, Jellicent and Gyarados with T-Punch but outside of that i don't see much advantage compared to the Guts Flame Orb set that not only boosts up all your moves, but also grants you an immunity to status.
  22. Neliel

    Neliel Sacred Sword

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    imo this set really needs trick room to work. maybe mention reuniclus as a partner? so you can put something else over mach punch ..
  23. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn the hidden heart of the ocean
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    qc approved 2/3

    you can all take your bad arguments elsewhere
  24. BKC

    BKC
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    thunderpunch & ice punch have secondary effects, therefore are boosted by sheer force, therefore do not take LO recoil :toast:

    went and tested this set out for a bit. it is monstrous. pairs really well with otr reun and cbtar!
  25. Vertex

    Vertex

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    Lol, how did this go from 8 - 24 posts in a day and 2 QC Aprrovals? Okay, LO Conkeldurr is actually seen a lot WITH Guts. I think people forget that as BU Conkeldurr has excellent bulk and can afford LO and Guts + LO is common especially the Mach Punch checking variants. In early BW1, it's easier to tell because it is much more common. I will get this typed up by Tuesday and one paragraph will be dedicated to the differences and similarities to the Status Orb set. Well, see ya!

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