Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]

Okay, so I had to wrangle some penises to get at least 12 votes for this round. Hopefully, for this last round we'll get a last erection of activity. In the mean time, here are the results.

  • Scarf Latios: 1
  • Ferrothorn: 1
  • Infernape: 1
  • Scarf Jirachi: 1
  • CB Metagross: 1
  • Scarf Tyranitar: 3
  • Scizor: 4
  • Total votes: 12 ;_;





(Enguarde was ScarfTar and Neko CB Meta)


So Scizor is the final teammate for Team 2, hopefully this was the right one.


Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 120 Atk / 248 HP / 140 SDef
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Quick Attack
- Superpower

So now we are going to go through this discussion phase one last time and discuss the final member for Team 1. I'm curious as to what you guys will come up with.
 
I'm going to post a Salamence set shortly, but I'd like community consensus on which of the following sets would be most effective(right now I'm leaning towards ScarfMence, although I personally love MixMence and would like to see it here)
1) Dragon Dance
2) MixMence
3) ScarfMence
4) Banded Salamence
Thanks in advance!
Vyomov
 
If we add Mence it should be scarf. Bad idea in general though since Team 1 can't fight SR and Scizor will block them as well.

Also, I forgot to announce something earlier. Lavos Spawn will be playing for Team 1 while alexwolf will be playing for Team 2 in the final battle after this round.
 

Volcarona@Life Orb
EV's: 224 HP/252 SpA/32 Spe
Trait: Flame Body
Modest Nature
-Quiver Dance
-Fire Blast
-Giga Drain
-HP Ice

My, my, this is an awfully awkward suggestion. Let's go over the EV's first: because Volc is outsped by Terrakion and Garchomp no matter what, and is faster than Zapdos, Blastoise, and Rotom-Wash with 32 Speed EV's, so it only makes sense to give it 224 EV's in HP. Volcarona also outspeeds GarAkion at +1 with a Modest nature, therefore giving it any more speed EV's does nothing for it. The moves are fairly obvious; FB hits Scizor hard as fuck and Zapdos gets 2HKO'd. Giga Drain hits Terrakion, Blastoise, and Rotom-W like a truck and HP Ice nails chomp for the OHKO. Life Orb is there to help Volc pack some extra punch, especially since it can afford to run a Modest Nature.

Of course, Team 1 not having a Rapid Spinner hurts since this would stack the SR weak pokemon on Team 1 to two and Volcarona losses half its health just by switching in when SR is on the field. Aside from that, Volcarona rapes.
 

blitzlefan

shake it off!

Starmie @ Life Orb
Trait: Analytic
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

Though it definitely does create some type-stacking issues, Starmie poses a major threat to Team 2. With its high speed and formidable coverage, it is a one-Pokemon wrecking crew that can easily strip huge chunks of health from the opposing team members. Life Orb Starmie serves to take advantage of Team 2's lack of a Choice Scarf user, as all opponents will fail to outspeed Starmie, and therefore will be crippled with the appropriate coverage move. Although Starmie's lack of power will prevent it from securing OHKOs (as both teams are defensively-oriented and fairly bulky), its ability to force switches and rack up entry hazard damage is nonetheless crucial, and it can hit all switch-ins for decent damage, making it a decent contender for Team 1's last spot. Starmie also completely counters Blastoise, being immune to status and resisting its only attacking move. Starmie also cleanly KO's Garchomp and forces Terrakion to lock onto Quick Attack (which is pathetic), switch out, or risk being cleaning KO'd, allowing Starmie to 2HKO the switch-in.

Calculations:
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 226+ SpD Zapdos: 177-211 (46.09 - 54.94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 463-546 (143.34 - 169.04%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 134-160 (44.22 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 515-608 (143.85 - 169.83%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Blastoise: 216-255 (59.83 - 70.63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 140 SpD Scizor: 218-257 (63.55 - 74.92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Options:
~ Blastoise can't really do anything in return, so Starmie could run Recover > Thunderbolt, or Rapid Spin > Thunderbolt.
~ As nothing is faster, we could run a spread of 56 HP / 252 SAtk / 200 Spd to take advantage of Starmie's naturally high speed for a little extra bulk.
 
So I did a bunch of "research" on team 2, and this is what I have:

As of right now, the only type team 2 has failed to even out resistances to weaknesses is Grass with 3 weak to 2 resists. Something like Starmie could do huge damage right now- but is weak to Scizor. I'm really struggling to find something that works out, good job teambuilding on Team 2's part. Tbh Gravity Landorus might have worked, but it's too late now. Gengar/Alakazam with HP Fire, maybe. Lati@s could work with Draco Meteor/Psyshock/HP Fire/Thunderbolt (or Energy Ball). A defensive/utility pick might be necessary this round, I like Amoonguss to deal with Slowbro's problems right now (Rotom-W/Zapdos) and spread Sleep/Toxic, which could easily wear down Team 2.

Stats-wise, Team 2 is hugely Physically oriented, with 129/130/130 attack stats coming from team 2. Another physical wall to reinforce Slowbro could work, but it'd also have to be able to deal with Zapdos/Rotom-W accordingly (Gastrodon? It's farfetched tbh)

Team 2 also lacks a reliable revenge killer seeing as Scizor only really has Bullet Punch to get rid of what it wants to, so a set-up sweeper that can stop Scizor would work. I'd vote Volcarona, but we can't guarantee SR isn't down, unless Volc wants to set-up from the start. Dragon Dancers might also work, but Dragonite would be my favorite DD'er at this point.

I went through and looked at all the attacking types Team 2 had, and this is what I tallied up (this is purely types, not BP/PP and such)
Normal: 2
Fire: 1
Water: 2
Grass: 1
Electric: 2 (Both are Volt Switch)
Flying: 0
Fighting: 2
Psychic: 0
Steel: 1
Rock: 1
Ground: 1
Dark: 0
Poison: 0
Dragon: 1
Ice: 1 (Hidden Power)
Ghost: 0
Bug: 3


So you probably noticed I bolded some types. I bolded them because it shows Breloom can come in and have a Field Day on Team 2, as it 4x resists SR and there's no legitimate typing Team 2 has on it except Zapdos' Heat Wave and maybe it's HP Ice. If we take out Zapdos, Breloom can come in (most likely a Techniloom Set) And use Mach Punch on Terrakion and take it out, and Bullet Seed on Rotom-W/Blastoise. I haven't done calcs, but I'm sure a +2 Techniloom can do some serious damage to the other team.

That's all I have, I'd like to hear some feedback on Techniloom at least, because I think it has potential, but unfortunately suffers from 4MSS because it needs SD/Low Sweep/Mach Punch/Bullet Seed to function properly but it would love Spore against everything and Rock Slide/Stone Edge against Zapdos.

Edit: Since I got ninja'd by a lot of people, criticism below:
Mence: I don't like Salamence in general, as it is actually extremely bothered by it's SR weakness and can't roost it off effectively like Dragonite can. To be useful, Salamence usually has to be choice-locked, which is a terrible idea against team 2 because they've got a very good type coverage defensively, and Salamence isn't bulky enough to keep switching in with SR damage + it's need to keep switching moves. I'd say post Dragonite's DD Roost set if anything, but still, Dragons don't seem really useful right now (though I like Hydreigon).

Starmie: 120+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 392-464 (149.61 - 177.09%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Don't switch in at the wrong time. Also why I wanted Scarf Scizor or Pursuit.
252+ SpA Expert Belt Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie: 298-353 (113.74 - 134.73%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Thunderbolt vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 107-126 (35.31 - 41.58%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Zapdos is similar, just saying. I ran calcs for Starmie earlier, it's a questionable pick. Sorry. If nothing else comes forth, I may vote for it, but it's got serious bulk issues.

Volcarona (edit): My mistake, I should rush less. Don't like it as a lead, I'll post later.
 
Volcarona: Like it, but SR will be its downfall along with Zapdos. If it's not the lead, it would be a wasted pick that doesn't do much of anything, basically compounding the SR weakness and putting way too much pressure on Kyurem-B to stop Garchomp.
120+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 140-165 (45.01 - 53.05%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Not helping your cause of being useful outside a lead.
Too bad Scizor doesn't have Pursuit for this match and I decided on a somewhat bulky Volc.
 
Too bad Scizor doesn't have Pursuit for this match and I decided on a somewhat bulky Volc.
Whoops, accidentally got the Pursuit one. Nice catch. I'll wait for you to post the set then just post then, I'm just saying you're going to have to choose EV's very carefully to outspeed Terrakion at +1, just saying now.

Edit: Derp.

I'm not good at Speed Tiers, but I'm assuming you outspeed everything at +1, which is good. I thought Volc was a lot slower than what it really is. You know my main issue with the set, and I can't stress it enough: it compounds the SR weakness badly. That's all I really have to say, I don't have time for calcs right now.
 
If we add Mence it should be scarf. Bad idea in general though since Team 1 can't fight SR and Scizor will block them as well.
Not necessarily: I can always run Fire Blast on MixMence which beats team 1's main obstacle to Cube, allowing Cube to sweep later.
Have exams today so will post the set later :)
 
Whoops, accidentally got the Pursuit one. Nice catch. I'll wait for you to post the set then just post then, I'm just saying you're going to have to choose EV's very carefully to outspeed Terrakion at +1, just saying now.

Edit: Derp.

I'm not good at Speed Tiers, but I'm assuming you outspeed everything at +1, which is good. I thought Volc was a lot slower than what it really is. You know my main issue with the set, and I can't stress it enough: it compounds the SR weakness badly. That's all I really have to say, I don't have time for calcs right now.
It's all good. Yea I figured that regardless of what it's speed EV's were Volc wasn't going to outspeed or get outsped by anything at +0, but outspeed everything without any investment so I just went with that to maximize it's bulk. The SR-weakness is huge and bothers me, too, but it just needs one late game switch in so finish things off.
 
Scizor may not have Pursuit but it has Quick Attack and so does Terrakion. Also, you would need to speed creep Volcarona a tad bit since Zappy has some speed investment.

Starmie is interesting, although you'll want to assume there isn't SR up (since Blastoise spins on the setter) which means Zapdos can switch into it and Rotom-W, too. (probably not all the time though) It also struggles to find those free opportunities since there's an awful lot of Volt-Turn going on. Analytic would make it a lot more dangerous once it is in although you wouldn't be able to use Rapid Spin since then Blastiose can cripple you with Toxic.
 
OK, this is my set!
Salamence@Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate/Moxie(upon discussion).
EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 SpA
Naive Nature
- Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
The idea of the set is simple: force out Scizor with the threat of Fire Blast, Dance on the switch and sweep.
At +1, Salamence is outspeeding the whole of Team 2, meaning he is hitting HARD. Even the "wall" on Team 2 does not like taking +1 Salamence:
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 282-333 (78.11 - 92.24%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 370-437 (122.11 - 144.22%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 450-530 (117.18 - 138.02%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 478-564 (147.98 - 174.61%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Life Orb Salamence Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 819-967 (228.77 - 270.11%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Right now Salamence is OHKOing the majority of team 2 with the exception of Blastoise(who is easily dealt with by Jirachi and Cube). Along with Scarf Kyurem-B, Dragon Dance Salamence will be too much for team 2 to deal with: Salamence will kill 2-3 mons with Moxie, can switch out and sweep or try to outrage and then let Kyurem-B clean up the remainders.
 

alexwolf

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@ DD Salamence

While it is true that it has potential against team 2, it is hard checked by Scizor, meaning it can't do as much work as a last pick would be expected. Furthermore, it is SR weak and will be with 75% when coming in as team 1 has no spinner, is slower than Terrakion and Garchomp, and can't OHKO anything in team 2 that it outspeeds other than Scizor, meaning that team 2 can play around it not so difficult. For example if it attempts to set-up on Rotom-W and Rotom-W goes for Volt Switch, then Scizor comes in and revenge kills with BP, and the same goes for Zapdos. Blastoise can either use Roar or Scald in order to bring it to OHKO range from Scizor's BP. I know that the Pokemon that is against Mence will be weakened a lot if not OHKOed by Mence if it stays in and attacks, but the point is that Mence won't have succeded in removing Scizor from the game, and will die after being locked into Outrage (it needs to lock itself into Outrage to do any damage to any of the Pokemon it outspeeds other than Scizor) from Scizor. So, overall, while Mence is not a bad pick, it's not a good one either.

@Bulky LO Volcarona

This is very risky. It has the potential to outright sweep team 2 or do absolutely nothing. If team 1 manages to keep SR off the field long enough for Volcarona to find a switch-in opoortunity, then team 1 wins (Blastoise can take 1 hit from +1 Rona, but this means that we lose our spinner and Rona can still come back later, while our Zapdos gets fucked by Lando). However, should team 2 manage to get up SR fast enough, then Volcarona will hardly do anything. At 50% health Volcarona cannot setup against any of Terrakion (CC OHKOes), Rotom0W (Hydro Pump), Zapdos (Volt Switch + Scizor's priority), Garchomp (both STABs), Blastoise (Roar), and Scizor (both priority moves 2HKO after SR, assuming we don't get unlucky with Flame Body), so unless it is played really godamn well it won't manage to set-up, and even if it does, it will kill one Pokemon at most before getting revenge killed by Scizor. For this reason (unreliability), i don't like Volcarona.

@ LO Starmie

While it is true that Starmie outspeeds and threatens a lot of stuff on team 2, it is also true that team 2 has two really good checks to it. Starmie is forced to predict correctly everytime Rotom-W and Zapdos come in (especially Zapdos, which can only be 2HKOed by Ice Beam 44% of the time from full health), otherwise it will just handle the momentum to team 2, which will start their annoying Volt-turn games. Also Starmie really struggles to find switch-in chances which limits its ability to deal damage against team 2. It can't come in against Terrakion and Terrakion won't be killing anything any time soon against team 1, it can't come in against the 2 electric-types, it can't come into Scizor unless it kills something first, it can't come into Garchomp unless it uses SR, leaving Blastoise as the only Pokemon it can comfortably switch into. We could give Starmie Analytic, which would make it impossible for team 2 to switch into (Psyshock + coverage move 2HKOes everything on team 2, assuming Psyshock is boosted by Analytic), but this would mean that Starmie will have a harder time switching into the only Pokemon it could before, Blastoise. And if Starmie gets statused by Blastoise it will only be a matter of time for Starmie to get into Scizor's Quick Attack killing range (2 or 3 turns). But it is true that 'till Starmie gets taken out it can seriously weaken team 2, and for this reason i think it's a good pick, provided you give it Analytic.

So for now my support goes for LO Starmie, provided you give it Analytic.

A Pokemon i would like to see discussed is Raikou. The SubCM Raikou can get a ton of set-up chances and butcher team 2 with the right game plan, while the LO set can become a vicious attacker akin to Starmie, but much harder to revenge kill and wall and easier to bring in. The LO set also needs zero prediction, as the only Pokemon that can switch into Thunderbolt is outsped and OHKOed by HP Ice.

EDIT: Also about Starmie. Ice Beam is not really needed if we go with Analytic, as Zapdos is 2HKOed by Psyshock on the switch, and Garchomp can be forced to use Outrage and get killed by Kyu-B after. This means that we can easily give Starmie Rapid Spin to make Kyu-B's life easier.
 

blitzlefan

shake it off!
I changed Starmie's ability from Natural Cure to Analytic, but I'm sort of unsure about replacing Ice Beam with Rapid Spin. If we force Garchomp to Outrage in order to kill it with Kyurem-B, doesn't that require we sack Starmie? I see your point, but I'm still sort of unsure if we can depend on Analytic that much to get the KOs (I haven't gotten around to testing it, to be honest).
 

ganj4lF

Nobody is safe from the power of science!
is a Team Rater Alumnus
Sorry, I was unable to connect to Smogon since, well, before May 1st I guess (since I lost Melee Mewtwo's tally) thanks to DDoSes and whatever. The last submission phase will last three days from this post, to allow everyone to see, post, and comment. I edited the first post with the updated teams, if anyone needs a reference. May post later on the suggestions already made, still thinking about a good poke to submit.
 

alexwolf

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I changed Starmie's ability from Natural Cure to Analytic, but I'm sort of unsure about replacing Ice Beam with Rapid Spin. If we force Garchomp to Outrage in order to kill it with Kyurem-B, doesn't that require we sack Starmie? I see your point, but I'm still sort of unsure if we can depend on Analytic that much to get the KOs (I haven't gotten around to testing it, to be honest).
No we would sacrifice Azelf, in order to force Garchomp to lock itself into Outrage so we can revenge it with Kyu-B, and clean easier after with Starmie.
 
So I did some Calcs. I like Breloom.

Breloom @ Life Orb
Trait: Technician
EVs: 70 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spore
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Stone Edge

I decided we need Spore to set up.
Anyways, I'll start off by saying the EV's give us as much bulk as possible and lets Breloom outspeed Rotom-W by one, which is the closest mon it can reach (Edit: Just kidding I outspeed Zapdos now, thanks alex). The idea here is to come in on a Choice-Locked Scizor, Blastoise, or Rotom-W, Spore, set up, then spam Mach Punch bar the two water types. It's also plausible to come in on Terrakion after it has killed something, but not switch in immediately. Not sure what else to say here, Breloom spreads sleep and has priority, stops Blastoise cold, allows for SR to be up theoretically then.
Edit: While I don't entirely like Stone Edge or Jolly Nature on Breloom now, it's probably for the best I added it so I did. Outspeeds Zapdos by 1 and hits it with (the unreliable) Stone Edge.

Yay calcs
Edit: You could probably ignore half these now
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 297-351 (77.34 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Zapdos Heat Wave vs. 124 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 264-312 (90.41 - 106.84%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Like I said, we don't like Zapdos. It shouldn't be a problem, however. We've got plenty of ways to deal with him, and it can't switch in on an attack at +2.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 307-361 (94.75 - 111.41%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Bullet Seed is actually better even with 2 hits, but I posted this anyways to show we can outright beat Terrakion w/o Spore or Swords Dance, and taking out a Terrakion always helps.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 492-585 (162.37 - 193.06%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I've EV'd to make Breloom outspeed, so Spore/SD isn't needed. I'm assuming 2 hits should be enough, either way we can Spore the switch if needed.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 146-173 (40.78 - 48.32%) -- 9.38% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 292-344 (81.56 - 96.08%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Outrage vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 308-363 (105.47 - 124.31%) -- guaranteed OHKO
We don't outspeed, so I posted Mach Punch calcs. Pretty seld explanatory, Garchomp OHKO's but with some prior damage Breloom might be able to deal with him.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 381-453 (105.54 - 125.48%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 124 HP / 0 SpD Breloom: 67-80 (22.94 - 27.39%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock
We're faster, but I'm posting the Surf calc in case we get only 2 hits on bullet seed.

252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 142-168 (41.39 - 48.97%) -- 71.88% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 281-331 (81.92 - 96.5%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
120+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Superpower vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 236-278 (80.82 - 95.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Hopefully Breloom will be at +2 at this point. For anyone wondering, BP does about 60-71%, and QA does about 40-47%.
 

alexwolf

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Yeah Breloom is a good idea, but there are a few ways you can improve your set. The things you should take into consideration right now are:

1. SR will not be up, so Zapdos, Scizor, and Garchomp will all survive your assaults at +2.
2. Zapdos outspeeds and OHKOes with Heat Wave if you go with Adamant
3. It's not a problem that Chomp survives a hit at +2, as Azelf makes it kind of useless

I think Breloom really needs Stone Edge to get past Zapdos or at least a Jolly nature to outspeed it and hit it with a +2 Bullet Seed, weakening it so that Landorus can have an easier way. Still, giving up our last slot to weaken Landorus's counter doesn't seem as the best idea, as Landorus is hardly a win condition for team 1. Jolly Breloom with Stone Edge, Spore, Bullet Seed, and Mach Punch can fuck up big time team 2, as every time it comes in it will get a kill. However, getting in is not the easiest thing for Breloom, and Scizor is still left unchecked, so this could bite us in the ass.
 

LilOu

PO poopyhead
So I revived.


Breloom @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 70 HP / 252 Atk / 188 Spe
Jolly nature
- Mach Punch
- Stone Edge
- Bullet Seed
- Low Sweep


I like this set a lot. It helps the team incredibly, outspeeding every pokemon bar Garchomp (we have Azelf for that) and Terrakion (OHKO'ed by Mach Punch and walled by Slowbro). As I said before, with Jolly and 188 Speed EVs, Loom outspeeds Zapdos by 1 point. This allows it to destroy it with Stone Edge, as well as, with some prediction, kill other pokemon. Also, Low Sweep allows it to lower Garchomp's speed and score the 2HKO.

Some calcs to prove the effectiveness:

  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 252HP/0Def Lightningrod Zapdos (Neutral): 97% - 115% (374 - 442 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 85% chance to OHKO.
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Mach Punch vs 4HP/0Def Terrakion (Neutral): 98% - 117% (320 - 380 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 93% chance to OHKO.
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/0Def Levitate Rotom (Neutral): 111% - 134% (340 - 408 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. (Hitting 2 seeds)
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Bullet Seed vs 4HP/0Def Garchomp (Neutral): 105% - 125% (376 - 448 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. (Hitting 4 seeds)
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Bullet Seed vs 252HP/252Def Leftovers Blastoise (+Def): 109% - 129% (396 - 468 HP). Guaranteed OHKO. (Hitting 3 seeds)

Against Scizor it becomes difficult:

  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Mach Punch vs 248HP/0Def Scizor (Neutral): 42% - 50% (147 - 174 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 2% chance to 2HKO
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Stone Edge vs 248HP/0Def Scizor (Neutral): 47% - 56% (164 - 193 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO. 19% chance to 2HKO.

However, with some prediction:
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Low Sweep vs 252HP/0Def Scizor (Neutral): 63% - 75% (220 - 261 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.

Oh, and I almost forgot. In case that Garchomp comes in trying to take a Stone Edge here are the results:
  • 252Atk Choice Band Technician Breloom (Neutral) Low Sweep vs 4HP/0Def Garchomp (Neutral): 63% - 75% (229 - 271 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO.



Raikou @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 58 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
Timid nature
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Volt Switch


Damn it. This set ups on almost everything and is unstoppable. The only thing that can creep it is a Toxic from Blastoise. But, hell, Blastoise is OHKO'ed by Thunderbolt. Raikou can come in against Zapdos, Rotom-W, Scizor locked into Bullet Punch, Garchomp locked into Outrage and Blastoise (being careful with the Toxic or Scald Burn). It sets up CM and then sweeps (team 2 has no scarfer).

Zapdos and Rotom-W are completely set up fodder. Even if they go for Volt-Switch, Team 2 can only go for Terrakion or Scizor to force Raikou out because they can take a hit and kill second then (only if it has not enough CM boosts, otherwise, gg).

Alexwolf said:
A Pokemon i would like to see discussed is Raikou. The SubCM Raikou can get a ton of set-up chances and butcher team 2 with the right game plan, while the LO set can become a vicious attacker akin to Starmie, but much harder to revenge kill and wall and easier to bring in. The LO set also needs zero prediction, as the only Pokemon that can switch into Thunderbolt is outsped and OHKOed by HP Ice.
"

I don't think that Raikou needs Subsitute because CM just does all the work. In the other hand, Volt Switch helps team 1 to keep the momentum and to force team 1 to go to something that prevents Raikou from setting up CMs. This gives us a lot of advantage in terms of match-up.
 
Did anyone think about Rotom-H? I won't post it, but it gets STAB against Team 2's last two picks and forces Zapdos to use Volt Switch. I haven't really looked at anything else, but as long as it outspeeds and OHKO's Blastoise, Scizor and Zapdos both can't do much to it, forcing them out/threatening them for an OHKO (maybe, no calcs so no clue, I'm assuming so on Scizor w/ Overheat) which pretty much opens up Landorus to do whatever it wants. Thoughts on it? I probably won't post it unless it proves to be overwhelmingly good against the other team.
 

ginganinja

It's all coming back to me now
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus

Lilligant @ Leftovers
136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
-Sleep Powder
-Giga Drain
-HP Fire
-Quiver Dance

IDK like this doesn't 6-0 Team 2 since you need Zapdos asleep or to be at like +3 or something so that you can Giga Drain off damage or something. Its going to be hell for Team 2 to switch into, as after +1 its killing like everything except Garchomp and Zapdos, and its still got Sleep Powder for one of them.

Worth a shot or something idk, just throwing it out as a possible option.
 
The dancing pineapple duck would like to be nominated, so I shall nominate him.



Ludicolo @ life orb
72 HP, 252 SpA, 52 SDef, 132 Spe
Modest Nature
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Giga Drain
-Rain Dance
-Synthesis (This slot is open to debate)

Basically, I feel we need something that can not only threaten team 2, but also something that has at least some chance of safely switching into Rotom-W, who is an absolute pest for team 1 right now. I think rain dance ludicolo can do quite a good job for our team in this regard. After some prior damage (about 20% to the bulkier pokemon of team 2), Only zapdos can dare stand in the way of the deadly fruit duck under rain (takes about 79% max from hydro pump), which is unfortunate for zapdos as it can't really do anything to ludicolo in return. (though pressure stalling may mean we should use surf over hydro pump)

EV's

Basically maximum power, being able to outspeed Rotom-W, and dumping the rest into Defenses while achieving a LO number for HP were the considerations here. Would be willing to redo EV's if people feel a bulkier ludicolo over a sweeper would help.

Synthesis and Rain Dance

Rain won't always be up for us, and we do need to be able to take repeated hits as ludicolo does require the bulky waters to take some prior damage before being KO'd, hence my decision to have synthesis, so we can consistently switch into Rotom-W (short of signal beam scoring a crit, we take 65% max from signal beam)

That last move slot

A few options. Toxic would cause any poke bar scizor a headache in regards to walling us. HP fire if scizor is enough of a concern to our team.

Additional benefits of rain.

While team 2 does get a decent boost from rain, Rotom-W will lose to ludicolo 1 on 1, which cancels out the advantage of their rain boost. Ditto for blastoise. As for our team, slowbro gets a more powerful scald I guess, but we also benefit jirachi who can, under rain, deal with zapdos more effectively, while screwing over everything not named garchomp with a 100% accurate, 60% paralysis rate thunder. That is a huge benefit for our team to have, since everything else is not getting in ludicolo's way when rain is up.

Also, if nothing else, I find the thought of an NU pokemon performing so well in an OU project rather amusing.
 
Rotom-H isn't that appealing a choice since it is also SR weak and being unable to break Zapdos doesn't help it much either. Some of these other picks can work too although I feel a lot of them try to rush a 6-0 instead of actually supporting the team. This can, of course, always work but if it doesn't (nothing seems quite as threatening as Infernape was last CtP) then Team 1 will quickly fall apart. (Since, Team 1 technically still lacks good switch-ins to Rotom/Scizor and they have the hazards advantage.)
 

Lavos

Banned deucer.
Well, I found the perfect fit.


Scrafty @ Leftovers
Trait: Shed Skin
EVs: 20 HP / 252 Atk / 236 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch

I honestly do not see how this thing can lose. At +1, it outspeeds everything on Team 2 and OHKOs 4 of the 6 team members, leaving only Zapdos (who can't touch it) and Blastoise (who can only Roar it or try to Toxic stall, hence Shed Skin). It can DD up on Zapdos, Rotom-W, and Terrakion locked into anything not named Close Combat, plus it scares out Garchomp and Scizor with Ice Punch and Fire Punch, respectively, and has nothing to fear from Blastoise. It's the perfect sweeper for this particular team. Coincidentally, the two Pokemon that Scrafty has the easiest time setting up on are also the two knee-jerk switches for U-Turn Landorus, meaning getting it in shouldn't be any trouble at all. I have scoured the depths of knowledge, and as far as I am aware, this is the single best Pokemon that Team 1 could pick.
 
+1 252 Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 135-160 (44.55 - 52.8%) -- 23.83% chance to 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 218-258 (56.77 - 67.18%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 312-368 (96.29 - 113.58%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO

+1 252 Atk Scrafty Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 400-472 (111.73 - 131.84%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blastoise: 103-123 (28.45 - 33.97%) -- possible 4HKO

+1 252 Atk Scrafty Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 384-452 (111.95 - 131.77%) -- guaranteed OHKO


120+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 20 HP / 0 Def Scrafty: 130-154 (47.1 - 55.79%) -- 76.17% chance to 2HKO

252+ SpA Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 165-195 (59.78 - 70.65%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Rotom-W Volt Switch vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 96-114 (34.78 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 SpA Zapdos Volt Switch vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 82-97 (29.71 - 35.14%) -- 18.21% chance to 3HKO

0 SpA Blastoise Surf vs. 20 HP / 0 SpD Scrafty: 79-94 (28.62 - 34.05%) -- 1.66% chance to 3HKO


I'm not sure if you forgot to switch High Jump Kick to Drain punch in your calcs because there are quite a few things that can tank a boosted Drain Punch. Once Scarfty gets knocked down to 50% (not too hard, but it'll be work that's true) Scizor's Bullet Punch cuts it off from actually sweeping. It's not a bad pick but I feel like it ends up in the same sort of situation most of these other suggestions. (I was worried for a second that you found something fatal there)
 

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