Cresselia (QC 0/3) [fyi I'm still alive, July 10]

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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QC APPROVED:
GP APPROVED:
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Overview
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  • Bulkiest overall Pokemon in the tier
  • Humongous mixed defenses allow it to wall and tank a variety of attacks, and unlike other defensive Pokemon, isn't vulnerable on a single defense (lookin at you florges).
  • Huge movepool compliments bulk, despite missing a few key attacks.
  • Moonlight, though unreliable, is much more welcome in a generation and tier with limited sandstorm.
  • Decent Speed gives Cresselia a degree flexibility; it can recover or set up without being outrun by usually slow threats.
  • Can't hit very hard.
  • Lacks Heal Bell / Aromatherapy and Taunt, giving it competition with other threats as a defensive Pokemon.
  • Psychic typing makes it vulnerable to common Dark- and Bug-types.

Defensive
########
name: Defensive
move 1: Moonlight
move 2: Psychic / Psyshock
move 3: Moonblast
move 4: Thunder Wave / Toxic
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Bold

Moves
========
  • Moonlight instantly recovers health, making it a required option.
  • Psychic-type move hits stuff so Cresselia can't be Taunt bait. Both Psychic (more overall powerful) and Psyshock (hit Assault Vest users) also hits the majority of Fighting-, Poison-, and specially frail Pokemon pretty hard.
  • Moonblast is great because it prevents Cresselia from being walled completely by Dark-types, and gives it a surprisingly decent fighting chance against common threats.
      • Cress pretty much walls Flygon forever and can wear it down with Moonblast instead of getting stalled by Roost if it uses Psychic or Psyshock.
      • Cress no longer has to switch out of Sharpedo and can KO it while tanking Crunch.
      • Mega Absol can't set up on it and takes a crapload.
      • OHKOes Naive Hydreigon after SR while surviving LO Dark Pulse.
      • Is guaranteed to break 56 HP Kyurem's Substitute, which none of its other moves can do. It's generally not recommended to spam it since Kyurem can pressure stall, but it wastes turns using Roost, giving Cresselia opportunities to fish for Thunder Wave or Toxic chances.
  • Thunder Wave slows down common switch-ins such as Hydreigon, while Toxic is a more reliable option against bulky walls such as Florges, Umbreon, and Lanturn.
  • Ice Beam (Moonblast is generally better b/c it also hits Flygon which isn't that big of a thread but also hits Hydreigon which kinda warrants the OHKO/2HKO)
  • Safeguard
  • Light Screen and Reflect can be used to make Cresselia basically unpenetrable temporarily, but Cresselia generally likes using Thunder Wave better.
  • Calm Mind (is different from Substitute + Calm Mind because it has recovery instead of Substitute and has two coverage moves, but is ultimately more vulnerable to status)
Set Details
========
  • 252 HP / 252 Def for maximum physical bulk.
  • Leftovers for more recovery
  • Discuss a mixed defensive spread.

Usage Tips
========
  • Try not to waste Moonlight PP
  • Operates as a tank/pivot.
  • If using Thunder Wave, use it first against a target to ease prediction (recover or attack a paralyzed target?)
  • Use a status move if you know you can force a Pokemon out.
  • For the love of god don't status Umbreon unless you want to eat a Synchronize status / a free turn for it to use Heal Bell.

Team Options
========
  • Best on balanced and defensive teams
  • Pairs well with Florges due to Florges's Dark- and Bug-type resistance and access to Aromatherapy to heal off status.
  • Umbreon has Heal Bell and okay defensive synergy (Cress can switch into Fighting-types), but compounds a Bug-type weakness.
  • Fits teams that prefer status support rather than Heal Bell support (Florges and Umbreon don't have all the time in the world to run Toxic). Also notable that Cress can use Thunder Wave, slowing the other team's momentum down.

Substitute + Calm Mind
########
name: Substitute + Calm Mind
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Calm Mind
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Moonlight / Moonblast
item: Leftovers
evs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 144 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk
nature: Bold / Timid

Moves
========
  • Substitute prevents status and revenge killing.
  • Calm Mind gives Cresselia a chance to sweep, and sometimes allows it to wall special attackers.
  • Psyshock is the main STAB move that hits opposing CM users, and is its best move against Florges which can otherwise stall out other +6 special moves.
  • Moonlight provides instant recovery from taking damage and using Substitute, giving it an easier chance of setting up and walling threats if it can't CM.
  • Moonblast provides coverage against Dark-types so they can't wall Cresselia. It also 2HKOes Slowbro and MEw at +5-6, otherwise they both can PP stall Psyshock by healing.
  • You can use Moonblast instead of Psyshock alongside Moonlight, though this makes this set incredibly weak.

Set Details
========
  • Investment in Speed and HP gives Cresselia bulk and speed, allowing it to set up more easily, have a better chance of setting up and beating some threats for free, such as Modest Rotom-H, Nidoking, Heracross, speedy Suicune, Meloetta, and Mega Blastoise. It also outspeeds common Taunters like Mew.
  • HP / Def EVs allow Cresselia's Substitute to survive Jolly 252 Atk Jirachi's Iron Head, and Mew's Knock Off 70% of the time.
  • Speed outruns Adamant Krow.
  • Leftovers alleviates Cresselia's reliance on Moonlight, and is its only form of recovery if lacking said move.
  • 252 HP / 252 Spe with Timid
  • 252 HP / 252 Def is cool for more physical bulk, but being poisoned/taunted by faster defensive threat kinda isn't cool.
  • In fact Cresselia is just so naturally bulky that investment outside of HP doesn't even matter.

Usage Tips
========
  • Only attempt to sweep after counters (Dark-types and Taunt users) are gone.
  • Operates as a surprisingly good win condition.
  • Can set up on a wide variety of special attackers and walls, such as Mega Blastoise (Dark Pulse fails to break Sub after +3), Mega Ampharos, Flygon, Jirachi, Florges, Goodra, Infernape, Suicune, Nidoking, Starmie, Porygon2, Roserade, Shaymin, and many others. It's not too hard.
  • Don't switch into Toxic or burn.
  • Again, don't be too greedy with Moonlight PP.
  • Cresselia can also wall + pivot when needed, but its physical bulk is not as good without investment.

Team Options
========
  • If you're using mono-Psyshock, you better have a way to get rid of Dark-types, especially Umbreon, which can't be taken care of by Toxic Spikes thanks to Heal Bell. Fighting-types are good at this, and can also take care of Steel-types; Toxicroak and Cobalion, for example, are immune to Toxic and resist Foul Play. Machamp also puts a ton of pressure on switch-ins thanks to its bulk and Dynamic Punch.
  • Scarf Gardevoir and Heracross can lure in and beat faster Dark-types. The latter can also use Healing Wish in case Cresselia contracts status or needs a second chance at sweeping.
  • Pairs well with other sweepers to keep up pressure and to sweep after stuff has been worn down.

Dual Screens
########
name: Dual Screens
move 1: Reflect
move 2: Light Screen
move 3: Lunar Dance
move 4: Thunder Wave / Psychic
item: Light Clay
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
nature: Timid

Moves
========
  • The combination of Light Screen and Reflect halves all attacks, giving Cresselia and its teammates opportunities to set up.
  • Lunar Dance is basically a 1-Up mushroom that completely heals a sweeper that has taken too much damage/status.
  • Thunder Wave gives Cresselia and its teammates better leverage against faster opponents.
  • Psychic is still a useful option to wear down Heracross and other Fighting- and Poison-types, and doesn't make Cresselia completely destroyed by Taunt.
  • Moonblast is a weaker attacking alternative that hits most things Psychic does, but also lures in and KOes some Dark-types. Luring things in like Absol and Hydreigon is only made easier thanks to the screens.

Set Details
========
  • Max Speed is used to obtain a higher chance of using Lunar Dance before dying (note: in testing, one problem 252 HP / 252 Def Cresselia has is that it's too slow to use Lunar Dance once it's severe weakened. IMO Max HP still gives it a load of survivability, and screens only further help). Max HP gives Cresselia more overall bulk.
  • Light Clay is required to increase the amount of Light Screen/Reflect turns.

Usage Tips
========
  • Best early- to mid-game, where it can throw opponents off guard with Reflect and Light Screen and gives fellow sweepers a chance to set up. It can also set up screens multiple times due to its bulk.
  • Use Thunder Wave first to fish for Taunt users and other counters, if applicable.
  • Don't leave Cresselia in too long since this wastes turns.
  • Use Cresselia ONLY if you value Lunar Dance and/or Cresselia's bulk, or else you'd be better off with faster alternative. But unlike CERTAIN other faster screen users, it doesn't faint to a single Scarf U-turn or Flare Blitz from lead Victini or Darmanitan.

Team Options
========
  • Works well on hyper offensive teams with fast and powerful setup sweepers.
  • Mega Absol is notable since it doesn't care about incoming status or phasing moves.
  • Cobalion, Toxicroak, and Kingdra are notable physical sweepers.
  • Celebi, Houndoom, Vivillon, and Porygon-Z are notable special sweepers.
  • Sweepers that can force out / cripple / lure in phazers like Hippowdon are preferred.

Other Options
########
  • Speedy SubToxic with Moonlight kills lots of things, but can easily be stopped by Steels, poisons, and clerics, and struggles without Taunt.
  • Trick Room, though Cresselia doesn't have much offensive presence to make use of it herself.
  • Rain Dance and Sunny Day are also options; the latter boosts Moonlight's healing, making the lack of Leftovers a trivial problem when running Heat Rock. Same can't be said for rain, though.
  • RestTalk
  • Flame Orb + Psycho Shift is done way better by Sigilyph, Reuniclus, and Rotom-H (uses Trick instead).
  • Cresselia really doesn't have free moveslots for time for Magic Coat, but it's mentionable because it blocks Taunt as well as Toxic.

Checks & Counters
########
  • Heracross can outrun and hit / KO with Megahorn, but hates taking Thunder Wave / Psychic / Psyshock / Moonblast to the face. CM may also outspeed.
  • Bug Buzz is kind of a bastard, especially against sets with Substitute. Vivillon and Volcarona are notable users that can set up Quiver Dance and hit hard.
  • Dark-types are immune to Psychic and can hit hard with STAB. Most can't switch in freely thanks to Thunder Wave and/or Moonblast. Can also hard counter mono-Psyshock CM.
  • Cress kinda hates being worn down burn, poison, and Leech Seed.
  • Taunt and Encore.
  • Xatu doesn't care about anything defensive Cress does, but can be set up on by SubCM.
  • Bulky Steel-types.
  • Florges and Umbreon can heal off damage and status, but are also set up on by SubCM.
 
Last edited:

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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A good spread for Sub CM is 252 HP / 84 Def / 116 SpA / 56 spe with a timid nature. This is the set:

Sub/Calm Mind
########
name: Sub/CM
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Moonblast / Signal Beam / Moonlight
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 116 SpA / 56 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk
nature: Timid

The given EVs and IVs ensure that no Foul Play will break Cressellia's sub, leaving it at 1 HP (the sub, that is: not Cressellia) and enable you to oupace most walls in the tier and adamant Honchkrow while also tying with bulky Mew. Timid is chosen over higher speed investment and modest as you end up with a higher special attack stat like this. The fourth move is down to preference/team requirements: Moonblast hits Sableye and Spiritomb super effectively and has a higher base power. However, Signal Beam gives you a way to break through stuff like Victini and the rare Ferroseed and Delphox, as well as hitting non-neutral Psychic- and Grass-types super effectively. Both moves hit Dark-types super effectively. Finally, if you want to give Cresselia more longevity, you can run Moonlight, but, after a calm mind or two, Cresselia has pleanty of longevity as it is, so it is only recommended if you really need Cresselia to stick around for a very long time. Ice Beam can go in moves for giving an even better way of dealing with Flygon than Moonblast, but it doesn't do much useful outside of that.

Please note that this isn't my set, but rather it is Blame Truth's Cresselia, as showcased in this video, although it was me who decided to slash Moonlight in there. I take no credit for this set.

Lunar Dance should get a moves mention on the defensive set.
 
I'm shocked that there is no mention of magic coat anywhere, bounces back toxics and taunts to not make cress as vulnerable to said moves.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
A good spread for Sub CM is 252 HP / 84 Def / 116 SpA / 56 spe with a timid nature. This is the set:

Sub/Calm Mind
########
name: Sub/CM
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Psyshock
move 4: Moonblast / Signal Beam / Moonlight
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 116 SpA / 56 Spe
ivs: 0 Atk
nature: Timid

The given EVs and IVs ensure that no Foul Play will break Cressellia's sub, leaving it at 1 HP (the sub, that is: not Cressellia) and enable you to oupace most walls in the tier and adamant Honchkrow while also tying with bulky Mew. Timid is chosen over higher speed investment and modest as you end up with a higher special attack stat like this. The fourth move is down to preference/team requirements: Moonblast hits Sableye and Spiritomb super effectively and has a higher base power. However, Signal Beam gives you a way to break through stuff like Victini and the rare Ferroseed and Delphox, as well as hitting non-neutral Psychic- and Grass-types super effectively. Both moves hit Dark-types super effectively. Finally, if you want to give Cresselia more longevity, you can run Moonlight, but, after a calm mind or two, Cresselia has pleanty of longevity as it is, so it is only recommended if you really need Cresselia to stick around for a very long time. Ice Beam can go in moves for giving an even better way of dealing with Flygon than Moonblast, but it doesn't do much useful outside of that.

Please note that this isn't my set, but rather it is Blame Truth's Cresselia, as showcased in this video, although it was me who decided to slash Moonlight in there. I take no credit for this set.

Lunar Dance should get a moves mention on the defensive set.
Great find. I'll consider it and test it out when I have time, though Signal Beam definitely isn't getting in at the moment.

I'm shocked that there is no mention of magic coat anywhere, bounces back toxics and taunts to not make cress as vulnerable to said moves.
Not included because Cresselia doesn't have free moveslots to use it, and typically tank Pokemon don't utilize it unless it's leading (in which case you should consider other faster Psychic-types). I'll include it in OO, though.
 
I think it would be worth noting how Cresselia's large support movepool complements its great bulk nicely.

Also is Substitute necessary for the Calm Mind set? I've never used or seen it in UU, but I feel like being able to run both Moonlight and Moonblast would be very helpful, especially with the large amount of Dark-types in the tier.

Other than that looks good, though I'm not the most experienced with Cresselia :O
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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I think it would be worth noting how Cresselia's large support movepool complements its great bulk nicely.

Also is Substitute necessary for the Calm Mind set? I've never used or seen it in UU, but I feel like being able to run both Moonlight and Moonblast would be very helpful, especially with the large amount of Dark-types in the tier.

Other than that looks good, though I'm not the most experienced with Cresselia :O
Good point, done.

And Calm Mind + Moonblast + Moonlight is actually mentioned in the support set under "moves;" main reason it isn't standard is because that set's primary function is to tank attacks and spread status. Lacking Substitute also makes Cresselia extremely vulnerable to a lot of things, such as incoming Scarf Megahorns, STAB Dark-type moves that it can stall out, status, Trick, and critical hits. But yeah, I do understand that there's a multitude of Dark-types in the tier, and that Cresselia has to somehow work around them. After CM, its Subs are pretty much bulky enough to withstand most special attacks as well as weaker physical ones.
 

horyzhnz

[10:02:17 AM] flcl: its hory xD
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I think Infiltrator users should be worth mentioning in C+C. Crobat goes through subs + screens unless you're running psychic, while noivern generally does the same unless you run moonblast. I think Trick / Switcheroo users like the aforementioned Noivern should also be mentioned; a Cresselia locked into one move isn't going to be as useful and the lack of lefties is pretty detrimental. I mean, they're both situational, but just something to consider.
 
Just gonna say that Timid nature prolly isn't the way to go unless you run max Speed, since the difference between Defense and Speed stats is big enough that Bold should almost always be preferred (you end up winning more points). So if you were to use the spread mentioned by gamer boy (I dunno what the Special Attacks EVs are for, though), just use 144 Spe Bold and take 16 EVs from Special Attack at least to have 248 HP / 16 Def / 100 SpA / 144 Spe Bold (if you find the Special Attack EVs aren't needed, just keep your spread lol). That way you end up with the same Speed stat, while having 11 more points in Defense at the cost of 4 points in Special Attack.
 

Martin

A monoid in the category of endofunctors
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Just gonna say that Timid nature prolly isn't the way to go unless you run max Speed, since the difference between Defense and Speed stats is big enough that Bold should almost always be preferred (you end up winning more points). So if you were to use the spread mentioned by gamer boy (I dunno what the Special Attacks EVs are for, though), just use 144 Spe Bold and take 16 EVs from Special Attack at least to have 248 HP / 16 Def / 100 SpA / 144 Spe Bold (if you find the Special Attack EVs aren't needed, just keep your spread lol). That way you end up with the same Speed stat, while having 11 more points in Defense at the cost of 4 points in Special Attack.
Remember, those EVs are very specialised, designed to let sub survive foul play with 1 'hit point' (exc. crits). In the end, though, it is down to Accidental Greed to decide upon the spread that will be used.
 
I don't really get what you mean, since the spread I posted is basically a more efficient version of the one you gave him.

Also 0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 84 Def Cresselia: 112-132 (25.2 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery, so that is kind of a turnoff

Edit: and with my spread 0 Atk Mew Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Cresselia: 108-128 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery yea, not much better

Frankly I'd just keep the one we came up with on IRC because it's a much smaller chance of Umbreon's FP (without 0 Atk IVs) and Mew's Knock Off breaking your Subs, unless like I said, the Special Attack EVs actually accomplish something useful.
 

AccidentalGreed

Sweet and bitter as chocolate.
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Yea I'll just keep the one on IRC as the main spread, and Timid's there to stay because it works and I mentioned a speedy spread in the Set Details.
 

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