1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Croagunk [Late BW2 Revamp] [QC: 3/3] [GP: 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by mikel, Jun 10, 2013.

  1. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    redoing/rewriting/reemphasising stuff because onsite analysis is incredibly unreadable + metagame has shifted (also macleapproved)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    GUNK
    cute

    [Overview]

    <p>One of the many Fighting-types in Little Cup, Croagunk is the preeminent utility Pokemon. It has an amazing typing and ability, giving it an immunity to Water and resistances to key attacking types in Fighting and Rock. That Fighting resistance lets it check the dominant Fighting-types in the metagame, such as Mienfoo, Scraggy, Riolu, and Timburr, and hard counter Tirtouga. Croagunk can also beat many common Pokemon on balanced teams, including Chinchou, Lileep, and most Staryu. With its huge movepool, it can act as a solid revenge killer, a general utility check, and even as a bulky setup sweeper, potentially all in one set. However, Croagunk's weakness to Flying is a huge drawback with Murkrow as the best Pokemon in the metagame. It also does poorly against Ghost-types like Drifloon and bulky Ground-types, such as Hippopotas and Sandshrew. Additionally, its attacking stats aren't overly impressive so it can lack some power. Overall, Croagunk excels as the glue for a team, filling gaps and acting as a fail-safe, but can not carry the team on its own.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Drain Punch
    move 2: Vacuum Wave
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Knock Off / Fake Out
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Croagunk makes for a fantastic check to Fighting- and Water-types, most importantly to Scraggy, whose two STABs Croagunk resists. Drain Punch is a reliable STAB attack, has reasonable power behind it, and provides some healing. Vacuum Wave is a secondary Fighting STAB and is exceptionally useful; it allows Croagunk to reliably revenge kill Scraggy, Snover, Tirtouga, Omanyte, Shellder, and Pawniard. Sucker Punch is a decent option here to hit Misdreavus more powerfully, but it is unreliable and Misdreavus can use Will-O-Wisp or Substitute, switch out, or even just take the hit, as it almost always does only 45%. Shadow Ball gives perfect coverage along with Croagunk's Fighting STAB and lets it hit Ghost- and Psychic-types hard on the switch. It's also handy in mirror matches against other Croagunk with its chance to drop Special Defense. Dark Pulse has a handy flinch chance, but Croagunk is so slow that it will rarely outspeed anything it wants to flinch. Knock Off is the primary move in the last slot, as it is the premier support move in Little Cup, where removing an Eviolite or a Choice Scarf is very often the difference between a win and a loss. However, Fake Out is also viable, assisting Croagunk in revenge killing, but it is quite weak and quite predictable.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Croagunk's bulk while giving Special Attack a nice boost and dumping the rest into Attack. Dry Skin is by far the best ability to use, making Croagunk immune to Water and making Pokemon such as RestTalk Chinchou a source of healing, but Poison Touch is somewhat viable as Dry Skin is often assumed to be its ability and opponents are wary of spamming Water-type moves. The last slot is really open to preference. Hidden Power Psychic (remember to adjust EVs by 4 to make up for the IV reductions) is very viable as it can rarely OHKO opposing Croagunk, always 2HKO Mienfoo and Riolu, and do 40% minimum to Careful Timburr. Ice Punch is also a good option here, as it can deal a hefty amount to Shroomish, Foonguss, and Murkrow on the switch. Rock Slide can also be used to hit Larvesta, Murkrow, and Ponyta hard.</p>

    <p>Croagunk is scared to death of Murkrow so Porygon and Archen make great teammates. Porygon also serves to deal with Misdreavus, Drifloon, and other Ghost-types which can check Croagunk, although Shadow Ball often serves to deter them from switching in with impunity. Abra threatens Croagunk with its Psychic STAB; Murkrow can switch in on Abra, force it out, and set up a Substitute or simply fire off a powerful Brave Bird. Croagunk really isn't too hard to fit onto a team as glue, but make sure it's used in its niches; otherwise, a Pokemon such as Mienfoo is probably better.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Payback / Knock Off / Vacuum Wave
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Bulk Up set, Croagunk can function as a setup sweeper, and this set highlights many of Croagunk's draws in Little Cup, including the ability to set up on the ubiquitous Fighting- and Water-types. It even beats Bulk Up Timburr without resorting to a low-utility move like Hidden Power Psychic. Bulk Up is required to increase Croagunk's Attack and Defense, letting it serve as a threat after a boost or two. Drain Punch gives good healing to a slow setup Pokemon. It's a pretty powerful STAB with an excellent offensive typing. Sucker Punch gives Croagunk a priority attack and with Drain Punch, gives neutral coverage on everything but opposing Croagunk. It has high power for a priority attack and prevents Croagunk from being revenge killed by frail Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Snover and Drifloon. Payback is a solid option in the last slot for hitting Ghosts using status moves, like Substitute Misdreavus, or Ghosts switching in. Knock Off can be used over Payback purely for its incredibly utility, but should only be used if you have a way to deal with Misdreavus with Taunt or Substitute. Vacuum Wave is very much in the same boat as Knock Off, but isn't all that powerful without significant investment, so it should only be used if absolutely required.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Croagunk's bulk while dumping leftover EVs into Attack and Speed. A considerably more offensive spread can be used but will make Croagunk far harder to set up. If using Vacuum Wave, a Brave nature can be used, with Speed EVs moved to Special Attack if desired. Poison Touch is unviable on a Bulk Up set, as being able to be burned by Scald is unacceptable on a Pokemon that sets up on Water-types. Sucker Punch is much less able than a heavily invested Vacuum Wave to revenge kill many threats Croagunk could otherwise check, so keep that in mind. It sets up best on Pokemon that can do little-to-nothing in return, such as Lileep, Chinchou, and Tirtouga. Just remember it's sometimes better mid-game to soften up checks with Drain Punch a little first than to immediately set up. Bulk Up Croagunk can be used as both a mid-game utility Pokemon that beats Chinchou so as to allow MixKrow to wreak havoc or as a late-game sweeper once Misdreavus and Murkrow are removed.</p>

    <p>Using Substitute in the last slot helps to scout counters and essentially force them to attack next turn, making Sucker Punch that much more effective. Ice Punch is also usable to hit Grass-types and Murkrow harder. Without Ice Punch, Murkrow can easily switch in on Croagunk and force it out with the threat of Brave Bird, making Archen and Porygon excellent teammates. Burn is particularly crippling for Bulk Up Croagunk, making checking Misdreavus a top priority. Porygon again handles it very well. Foonguss and Larvesta resist Croagunk's Fighting-type STAB. Insomnia Murkrow and Early Bird Houndour deal with the former with ease while Larvesta is best beaten with Stealth Rock support and a bulky Water-type such as Chinchou.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Croagunk has one of the widest effective movepools in Little Cup. First and foremost, Croagunk can run a Nasty Plot set with Vacuum Wave, Shadow Ball, and Sludge Bomb, using Focus Blast over Sludge Bomb if preferred. Ice Punch is always a solid choice to hit Murkrow, Foonguss, and Shroomish effectively at the cost of flexibility. Rock Slide is again handy to hit Murkrow, but it also hits Larvesta and Ponyta meaning Croagunk needs to rely less on a bulky Water-type teammate to handle them. Earthquake can be used for its neutral coverage but it's redundant alongside Croagunk's Fighting STAB and you'd be losing a lot of utility. Pursuit is hilariously weak but it can checkmate highly weakened Misdreavus. Taunt can be a decent option to attempt to prevent setup, but with such low Speed, the opponent is almost always guaranteed at least one turn of setup. Focus Punch can be used with Substitute as a very powerful STAB attack but running it has a huge opportunity cost. Finally, Croagunk's Poison-type STAB in the form of Poison Jab and Gunk Shot can be used, as they're pretty powerful, but they have mediocre-at-best coverage and Gunk Shot is depressingly inaccurate.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ironically, Croagunk's best counter is itself (unless it's running Hidden Power Psychic), resisting its own STAB. Psychic-type attacks are its bane. Abra in particular almost always runs Protect to block Fake Out and will easily KO with Psychic. Shadow Ball will deal a great deal of damage to Abra, however, and some Croagunk run Sucker Punch, so Abra users must be cautious. Staryu with Psychic makes an excellent lure for Croagunk. Flying-types including Murkrow, Drifloon, Vullaby, and Mantyke will deal huge damage with their STAB attacks and take a pittance from Drain Punch. Misdreavus and Drifloon are immune to Drain Punch and can burn Croagunk or KO with Acrobatics, respectively, but must beware of Shadow Ball, Payback, and Sucker Punch. Frillish can burn it and just heal repeatedly with Recover.</p>

    <p>Larvesta is an excellent counter to Croagunk as it resists Fighting, takes a puny amount of damage from Sucker Punch, and threatens to retaliate with Will-O-Wisp or Flare Blitz. Ponyta can't switch in as easily nor stay in as easily, but again can burn it or smack it with a powerful attack. Ground-types, such as Hippopotas, Drilbur, and Sandshrew, threaten Croagunk immensely with Earthquake and are quite bulky. Bulk Up Timburr can set up on and beat Croagunk lacking Bulk Up or Hidden Power Psychic. Residual damage will wear down Croagunk, and switching in on powerful attacks such as Snover's Blizzard cuts down its lifespan greatly.</p>

    skelangtun (open)
    [Overview]
    • strong utility pokemon
    • amazing typing and ability, immune to water and resisting key offensive types: fighting and rock
    • checks the dominant fighting types in the metagame (foo, scraggy, riolu, timburr)
    • hard counter to tirtouga gg
    • hard check to pokemon such as chinchou, lileep, non-psychic staryu (top water types and other utility pokemon)
    • has a really good movepool letting it act as a revenge killer, utility check to everything, or even bulky setup sweeper
    • weak to flying sucks when murkrow is the best pokemon in the metagame
    • also weak to ghost-types (drifloon !) and bulky ground types (hippo)
    • not really all that strong

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Drain Punch
    move 2: Vacuum Wave
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Knock Off / Fake Out
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • check to fighting- and water-types in general (hard counters scraggy in particular due to metagame moving to using knock off > zen headbutt)
    • drain punch is reliable stab, reasonably powerful, provides some healing. hits scraggy super effectively (big deal !)
    • vacuum wave is another stab attack, very useful priority. revenge kills scraggy, snover, weakened mixkrow, omanyte, TIRTOUGA, shellder, pawniard
    • can use sucker punch to hit missy i guess but it's super unreliable and missy can just burn you / run away / sub / laugh at weak sucker punch
    • shadow ball gives perfect coverage w/ fighting-stab. kinda strongish, hits missy super effectively, stops ghosts from switching in w/ impunity
    • dark pulse has flinch chance and can be used, but croagunk is a lardass and isn't really outrunning anything.
    • knock off is the best move ever. removing eviolite is such a boon in lc, and removing scarf can be just as crippling.
    • fake out is ok and lets you revenge kill better i suppose but lol is it weak and predictable

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • ev spread gives max defenses, some power, 9 speed. stolen from jukain's last revamp and i still find this ev spread fine so i don't see any reason to change it.
    • dry skin makes you immune to water and more importantly heal from it so that resttalk chinchou just became a source of healing
    • poison touch can be used as a bluff i guess as people are wary of spamming water-type attacks when there's a gunk but there's such an opportunity cost and poisoning the opponent isn't that big a deal really
    • the last slot is really open to preference. croagunk has a plethora of options: hp psychic [note: i fucking love hp psychic on gunk so if i overhype it please rein me in] is excellent as it can 2HKO mienfoo and riolu, sometimes OHKO opposing croagunk, and do 40% minimum to timburr
    • otherwise there's ice punch for shroomish and foonguss and i guess murkrow on the switch; rock slide for larvesta, murkrow, ponyta.
    • scared to death of murkrow so you need something that can take it on. porygon is a good teammate, as it can counter 95% of variants. archen is also cool.
    • forced out by ghost-types so again porygon makes a good teammate. note that shadow ball or knock out on the switch can cripple ghost-types so they're not a huge deal
    • psychic attacks destroy gunk so use like murkrow or something to take advantage of them (main user of psychic in lc is abra really so yea)
    • this set really provides glue to a team in knock off support and generally revenge killing or checking stuff so it's pretty easy to fit into a team

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Payback / Knock Off / Vacuum Wave
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    • bulky late game sweeper
    • highlights many of gunk's main attributes such as setting up on fighting- and water-types
    • beats BU timburr w/o needing HP psychic which is cool (a top reason to use this set btw)
    • BU is obvious i don't want to need to explain why you should use this
    • drain punch gives healing to a slow setup mon. reasonably powerful, stab, good typing in lc. need i say more?
    • sucker punch is priority and gives perfect coverage barring gunk. decently powerful and stops you getting revenged by frail scarfers and missy w/o wisp/bond/sub and i suppose drifloon
    • payback is the best option hitting sub missy and stuff like that. doesn't double in power on the switch but is nice when they taunt you or something and you KO with payback
    • knock off is just generally cool and if you have no missy troubles you can shove it in here
    • vacuum wave is like knock off; cool utility but leaves you open to missy and is kinda weak w/o investment and adamant (idk if this should get a slash or just AC it)

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    • maximise bulk with dumped EVs in attack and speed. you can run more attack and take EVs out of defense and sp. defense but it hurts croagunk's setup ability
    • don't run poison touch on this. w/o dry skin it can get burned by scald which sucks balls on a slow BU mon
    • this set can't really act as a utility pokemon so much as it lacks a powerful attack to revenge kill with
    • use its typing and ability to set up on shit that can't do anything back: lileep, chinchou, tirtouga, etc. just remember that sometimes it's better to scout w/ drain punch and wear those checks down
    • substitute is a cool option in the last slot to scout out switch ins and basically guarantee they'll attack that turn (relevant for abra, misdreavus, and co)
    • ice punch is viable sorta to hit grass-types and murkrow on the switch in the last slot.
    • speaking of checks, slightly less vulnerable to krow but is basically ruined by burn from stuff like missy which is immune to drain punch and giggles at sucker punch. run like porygon to beat missy.
    • foonguss and shroomish basically troll croagunk forever with spore and great bulk. use insomnia mixkrow or early bird houndour to beat them.
    • run BU croagunk as either a mid-game utility pokemon which beats chinchou so as to let stuff like mixkrow wreak havoc, or as a late-game sweeper once misdreavus and murkrow are removed (pair with porygon, archen)

    [Other Options]

    • croagunk learns just about every move ever lol
    • nasty plot set with vacuum wave, shadow ball, and sludge bomb. can use focus blast i guess over sludge bomb but have fun missing all the time
    • ice punch is a pretty cool option to hit murkrow, foonguss, and shroomish, but you lose utility.
    • pursuit is pretty pathetically weak but it "traps" misdreavus (into just WoWing or 2HKOing with shadow ball lol) and gastly (see misdreavus for why not to do this)
    • gets access to rock slide and earthquake which aren't too weak and hit some of its checks pretty hard, but gunk already has superb coverage and its main moves have excellent secondary effects.
    • taunt is kinda cool but you're slow so you can't prevent entry hazards really nor prevent getting burned
    • poison-type stab is awful coverage-wise but they're pretty powerful so gunk shot and/or poison jab can be used

    [Checks and Counters]

    • croagunk is walled to death by itself (unless you're running hp psychic !) so it's basically waiting for a crit and/or whoever has more hp to start with
    • anything with a psychic attack is basically guaranteed to ko gunk: abra in particular. watch out for shadow ball on the switch and some gunk run sucker punch.
    • don't be hasty to switch gunk into staryu as psychic staryu is a common lure
    • flying-types such as murkrow, drifloon, vullaby, and MANTYKE give croagunk fits, KOing with their stab attacks and scaring gunk out.
    • ghost-types can burn croagunk and are immune to fighting, but payback or shadow ball can really hurt if you mispredict. frillish solidly beats croagunk even though shadow ball does a bit b/c it can burn then just heal with recover.
    • larvesta solidly checks it as it does other fighting-types and threatens to burn or deal a hefty amount with flare blitz
    • ponyta is a lesser larvesta in effect: can't switch in as easily, doesn't resist fighting, but can burn and hit it with flare blitz.
    • being weak to ground sucks when sand rush teams are so popular. any of hippopotas, drilbur, and sandshrew threaten to smack gunk with earthquake.
    • gunk in general hates residual damage and switching in on powerful attacks so just keeping offensive pressure with strong attacks helps wear it down.
  2. iss

    iss happily ever after
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,093
    Hmm... little antsy about the lack of a Sucker Punch slash, but your reasoning is pretty solid. Mention Sub in Bulk Up's AC.

    [qc]1/2[/qc]
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,022
    In the overview, I would just mention Croagunk's unique typing which gives it all of those resistances and its extremely useful ability. Those two together are what allow a 48 / 40 / 40 Pokemon run a bulky utility set.

    "this set can't really act as a utility pokemon so much as it lacks a powerful attack to revenge kill with"
    Then what is sucker punch for? SPunch hits even harder than Vacuum Wave. I would suggest you remove that line entirely, as it is quite unneeded

    -Checks and Counters-
    -Don't forget Vullaby!
    -Psychic types have to be wary of SBall on the switch in or SPunch as they attack; both deal a hefty amount of damage
    -If Larvesta is being mentioned (as it should) why not Ponyta? It can hit just as hard with Flare Blitz, it just doesn't resist Fighting

    Good job so far.
  4. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,742
    what he said I guess

    [qc]2/2[/qc]
  5. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    my reasoning was that of the list of relevant threats croagunk is best able to revenge kill:

    scraggy, murkrow, and pawniard resist dark; snover, omanyte, tirtouga, and shellder are all hit considerably harder by vacuum wave. i really don't rate a fairly weak sucker punch as worth a considerable mention for revenge killing, but i can reduce the tone of that point in my write up.

    also qc checks implemented. i'll write this up tomorrow.
  6. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    966
    i'm sorry if this has already been checked and i'm late to talk about it, but Focus Punch definitely deserves OO. It's a decent set to use on it with SubPunch.
  7. Rowan

    Rowan not a professor
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,566
    Mention an alternate EV spread on the Bulk Up set if you're using Vacuum Wave?
  8. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    ok i wrote this way too fast

    qc me then gp me please

    OK I ADDRESSED YOU TWO TOO <3 (missed you as i was writing this up)
  9. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Unplug me from this fantasy
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Messages:
    791
    Mention in the Checks and Counters section that Bulk Up Timburr is capable of beating the Utility set after a few Bulk Ups. You alluded to that in the Bulk Up set, but it would be better if it were outright stated.

    Otherwise, this is awesome!

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  10. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    cheers hawkstar

    on to gp then
  11. relaunched

    relaunched

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2012
    Messages:
    299
    old new why

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>One of the many Fighting-types in Little Cup, Croagunk is the preeminent utility Pokemon. It has an amazing typing and ability, giving it an immunity to Water and resistances to the key (or are these the two biggest attacking types in LC? if so how about "the most popular" over "the key") attacking types in Fighting and Rock. That same Fighting resistance lets it check the dominant Fighting-types in the metagame, such as Mienfoo, Scraggy, Riolu, and Timburr, as well as and hard counter Tirtouga. It Croagunk can also beat many common Pokemon on balanced teams, including Chinchou, Lileep, and most Staryu. With its huge movepool, it can act as a solid revenge killer, a general utility check, and even as a bulky setup sweeper, potentially all in the one set. (I sort of want you to use an exclamation mark here, but that may just be because I love exclamation marks. Use one if you agree!) However, Croagunk's weakness to Flying is a huge drawback with Murkrow as the best Pokemon in the metagame. It's also weak to It also does poorly against Ghost-types like Drifloon and bulkier bulky Ground-types, such as Hippopotas and Sandshrew. Additionally, its attacking stats aren't overly impressive so it can lack some power. Overall, Croagunk excels as the glue for a team, filling gaps and making failsafes acting as a fail-safe, (Well, "fail-safe" has to be hyphenated. Also "making fail-safes" doesn't make a lot of sense. If you don't like my wording, what about "assisting in fail-safes"?) but can not carry the team on its own.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Drain Punch
    move 2: Vacuum Wave
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Knock Off / Fake Out
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Croagunk makes for a fantastic check to Fighting- and Water-types, most importantly to Scraggy, whose two STABs Croagunk resists. Drain Punch is a reliable STAB attack, has reasonable power behind it, and provides some healing. Vacuum Wave is a secondary Fighting STAB and is exceptionally useful; it allows Croagunk to reliably revenge kill Scraggy, Snover, Tirtouga, Omanyte, Shellder, and Pawniard. Sucker Punch is a decent option here to hit Misdreavus more powerfully, but it is unreliable and Misdreavus can use Will-O-Wisp or Substitute, switch out, or even just take the hit, as it almost always does only 45%. Shadow Ball gives perfect coverage along with Croagunk's Fighting STAB and lets it hit Ghost- and Psychic-types hard on the switch. It's also handy in mirror matches against other Croagunk with its chance to drop Special Defense. Dark Pulse has a handy flinch chance but Croagunk is so slow that it will almost never rarely outspeed anything it would want wants to flinch. Knock Off is the primary move in the last slot, as it is the premier support move in Little Cup, where removing an Eviolite or a Choice Scarf is very often the difference between a win and a loss. However, Fake Out is also viable, assisting Croagunk in revenge killing, (AC) but it is exceptionally quite weak and quite predictable. (I wouldn't say this -- if used correctly Fake Out can be unpredictable.)</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Croagunk's bulk while giving Special Attack a nice boost and dumping the rest into Attack. Dry Skin is by far the best ability to use, making Croagunk immune to Water and making Pokemon such as RestTalk Chinchou a source of healing, but Poison Touch is somewhat viable as Dry Skin is often assumed to be its ability and opponents are wary of spamming Water-type moves. The last slot is really open to preference. Hidden Power Psychic (remember to adjust EVs by 4 to make up for the IV reductions) is very viable as it can rarely OHKO opposing Croagunk, always 2HKO Mienfoo and Riolu, and do 40% minimum to Careful Timburr. Ice Punch is also a good option here, as it can deal a hefty amount to Shroomish, Foonguss, and Murkrow on the switch. Rock Slide can also be used to hit Larvesta, Murkrow, and Ponyta hard.</p>

    <p>Croagunk is scared to death of Murkrow so Porygon and Archen make great teammates. Porygon also serves to deal with Misdreavus, Drifloon, and other Ghost-types which can check Croagunk, although Shadow Ball serves to deter them from switching in with impunity. (seems unneeded, as you've already explained Shadow Ball) Abra threatens Croagunk with its Psychic STAB; Murkrow can switch in on Abra, force it out, and set up a Substitute or simply fire off a powerful Brave Bird. Croagunk really isn't too hard to fit on a team as glue but make sure its used for in its niches; otherwise, a Pokemon such as Mienfoo is probably better.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Payback / Knock Off / Vacuum Wave
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Bulk Up set, Croagunk can function as a setup sweeper, (AC) and this set highlight highlights many of Croagunk's draws in Little Cup including setting up the ability to set up on the ubiquitous Fighting- and Water-types. It even beats Bulk Up Timburr without needing resorting to a low-utility move like Hidden Power Psychic. Bulk Up is required to boost increase (to remove "boost" redundancy) Croagunk's Attack and Defense, letting it serve as a threat after a boost or two. Drain Punch gives good healing to a slow setup Pokemon. It's pretty powerful with STAB and has an excellent offensive typing. Sucker Punch gives Croagunk a priority attack and near-perfect coverage barring against opposing Croagunk , (AC) with Drain Punch, gives neutral coverage on everything but opposing Croagunk. It has high power for a priority attack and prevents it Croagunk from being revenge killed by frail Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Snover and Drifloon. Payback is a solid option in the last slot for hitting Substitute Misdreavus and the like, giving Croagunk a reliable attack to hit any Pokemon in the metagame. Although it doesn't double in power when hitting on the switch-in, it's handy to have a way of hitting Ghost-types using Taunt or Substitute. (The part about not hitting on the switch-in seems useless (some people may not know about gen IV), and I feel the uses of Payback extend far behind just hitting stuff with Taunt or Substitute. My change explains the benefits of this move more clearly.) Knock Off can be used over Payback purely for its incredibly utility, but should only be used if you have a way to deal with Misdreavus with Taunt of Substitute. Vacuum Wave is in much the same boat as Knock Off, but isn't all that powerful without significant investment, so should only be used if absolutely required.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Croagunk's bulk while dumping leftover EVs into Attack and Speed. A considerably more offensive spread can be used but it makes it will make Croagunk far harder to set up. If using Vacuum Wave, a Brave nature can be used, with Speed EVs moved to Special Attack if desired. Poison Touch is unviable on a Bulk Up set, as being able to be burned by Scald is unacceptable on a Pokemon that sets up switches in on Water-types. (This is more reasonable, as a Water-type probably won't try to burn Croagunk, as it has Dry Skin. However, they might try to hit you with a Water attack if you switch in.) Sucker Punch is much less able to revenge kill many threats Croagunk could otherwise check, so keep that in mind. (What does the preceding sentence even mean? Much less able than what? What does otherwise mean? I have no idea what you're comparing to. Change.) It sets up best on Pokemon that can do little-to-nothing in return, such as Lileep, Chinchou, and Tirtouga. Just remember it's sometimes better mid-game to soften up checks with Drain Punch a little first than to immediately set up. Bulk Up Croagunk can be used as both a mid-game utility Pokemon that beats Chinchou so as to allow MixKrow to wreak havok or as a late-game sweeper once Misdreavus and Murkrow are removed.</p>

    <p>Using Substitute in the last slot helps to scout counters and essentially force them to attack next turn making Sucker Punch that much more effective. Ice Punch is also usable to hit Grass-types and Murkrow harder. Without Ice Punch, Murkrow can easily switch in on Croagunk and force it out with the threat of Brave Bird, making Archen and Porygon excellent teammates. Burn is particularly crippling for Bulk Up Croagunk, making checking Misdreavus a top priority. Porygon again handles it very well. Foonguss, Shroomish, (huh?) and Larvesta resist its Croagunk's Fighting-type STAB. Insomnia Murkrow and Early Bird Houndour deal with the former two with ease while Larvesta is best beaten with Stealth Rock support and a bulky Water-type such as Chinchou.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Croagunk has one of the widest effective movepools in Little Cup. First and foremost, Croagunk can run a Nasty Plot set with Vacuum Wave, Shadow Ball, and Sludge Bomb, using Focus Blast over Sludge Bomb if preferred. Ice Punch is always a solid choice to hit Murkrow, Foonguss, and Shroomish effectively at the cost of flexibility. Rock Slide is again handy to hit Murkrow, but it also hits Larvesta and Ponyta meaning Croagunk needs to rely less on a bulky Water-type teammate to handle them. Earthquake can be used for its neutral coverage but it's redundant alongside Croagunk's Fighting STAB and you'd be losing a lot dropping a move like Knock Off. Pursuit is hilariously weak but it can checkmate highly weakened Misdreavus. Taunt can be a decent option to attempt to prevent setup, but with such low Speed, the opponent is almost guaranteed at least one turn of setup. Focus Punch can be used with Substitute as a very powerful STAB attack but running it has a huge opportunity cost. Finally, Croagunk's Poison-type STAB in the form of Poison Jab and Gunk Shot can be used, as they're pretty powerful, but they have mediocre-at-best coverage and Gunk Shot is depressingly inaccurate.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ironically, Croagunk's best counter is itself (unless it's running Hidden Power Psychic!), (ironically, I feel that exclamation mark is unneeded) resisting its own STAB. Psychic-type attacks are its bane. Abra in particular typically runs Protect to block Fake Out and will easily KO with Psychic. Shadow Ball will deal a great deal of damage to Abra, however, and some Croagunk run Sucker Punch, so the Abra user Abra users must be cautious. Staryu with Psychic makes an excellent lure for Croagunk. Flying-types including Murkrow, Drifloon, Vullaby, and Mantyke will deal huge damage with their STAB attacks and take a pittance from Drain Punch. Misdreavus and Drifloon are immune to Drain Punch and can burn Croagunk or KO with Acrobatics, respectively, but must beware of Shadow Ball, Payback, and Sucker Punch. Frillish can burn it and just heal repeatedly with Recover.</p>

    <p>Larvesta is an excellent counter to Croagunk as it resists Fighting, (AC) and takes a puny amount of damage from Sucker Punch and threatens to retaliate with Will-O-Wisp or Flare Blitz. Ponyta can't switch in as easily nor stay in as easily, but again can burn it or smack it with a powerful attack. Ground-types, such as Hippopotas, Drilbur, and Sandshrew, threaten Croagunk immensely with Earthquake and are quite bulky. Bulk Up Timburr can set up on and beat Croagunk lacking Bulk Up or Hidden Power Psychic. Residual damage will wear down Croagunk, and switching in on powerful attacks such as Snover's Blizzard cuts down its lifespan greatly.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  12. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    implemented, barring a few changes which altered gameplay-relevant wording which i tidied up where necessary.

    have at you, gp !
  13. Hollywood

    Hollywood she's thin, she's blonde, she says "wow" a lot
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,845
    amcheck '<'

    add
    delete
    comments

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>One of the many Fighting-types in Little Cup, Croagunk is the preeminent utility Pokemon. It has an amazing typing and ability, giving it an immunity to Water and resistances to key attacking types in Fighting and Rock. That Fighting resistance lets it check the dominant Fighting-types in the metagame, such as Mienfoo, Scraggy, Riolu, and Timburr, and hard counter Tirtouga. Croagunk can also beat many common Pokemon on balanced teams, including Chinchou, Lileep, and most Staryu. With its huge movepool, it can act as a solid revenge killer, a general utility check, and even as a bulky setup sweeper, potentially all in one set. However, Croagunk's weakness to Flying is a huge drawback with Murkrow as the best Pokemon in the metagame. It also does poorly against Ghost-types like Drifloon and bulky Ground-types, such as Hippopotas and Sandshrew. Additionally, its attacking stats aren't overly impressive so it can lack some power. Overall, Croagunk excels as the glue for a team, filling gaps and acting as a fail-safe, but can not carry the team on its own.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility
    move 1: Drain Punch
    move 2: Vacuum Wave
    move 3: Shadow Ball
    move 4: Knock Off / Fake Out
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Quiet
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 36 Def / 108 SpA / 116 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Croagunk makes for a fantastic check to Fighting- and Water-types, most importantly to Scraggy, whose two STABs Croagunk resists. Drain Punch is a reliable STAB attack, has reasonable power behind it, and provides some healing. Vacuum Wave is a secondary Fighting STAB and is exceptionally useful; it allows Croagunk to reliably revenge kill Scraggy, Snover, Tirtouga, Omanyte, Shellder, and Pawniard. Sucker Punch is a decent option here to hit Misdreavus more powerfully, but it is unreliable and Misdreavus can use Will-O-Wisp or Substitute, switch out, or even just take the hit, as it almost always does only 45%. Shadow Ball gives perfect coverage along with Croagunk's Fighting STAB and lets it hit Ghost- and Psychic-types hard on the switch. It's also handy in mirror matches against other Croagunk with its chance to drop Special Defense. Dark Pulse has a handy flinch chance,(AC) but Croagunk is so slow that it will rarely outspeed anything it wants to flinch. Knock Off is the primary move in the last slot, as it is the premier support move in Little Cup, where removing an Eviolite or a Choice Scarf is very often the difference between a win and a loss. However, Fake Out is also viable, assisting Croagunk in revenge killing, but it is quite weak and quite predictable.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EV spread maximizes Croagunk's bulk while giving Special Attack a nice boost and dumping the rest into Attack. Dry Skin is by far the best ability to use, making Croagunk immune to Water and making Pokemon such as RestTalk Chinchou a source of healing, but Poison Touch is somewhat viable as Dry Skin is often assumed to be its ability and opponents are wary of spamming Water-type moves. The last slot is really open to preference. Hidden Power Psychic (remember to adjust EVs by 4 to make up for the IV reductions) is very viable as it can rarely OHKO opposing Croagunk, always 2HKO Mienfoo and Riolu, and do 40% minimum to Careful Timburr. Ice Punch is also a good option here, as it can deal a hefty amount to Shroomish, Foonguss, and Murkrow on the switch. Rock Slide can also be used to hit Larvesta, Murkrow, and Ponyta hard.</p>

    <p>Croagunk is scared to death of Murkrow so Porygon and Archen make great teammates. Porygon also serves to deal with Misdreavus, Drifloon, and other Ghost-types which can check Croagunk, although Shadow Ball often serves to deter them from switching in with impunity. Abra threatens Croagunk with its Psychic STAB; Murkrow can switch in on Abra, force it out, and set up a Substitute or simply fire off a powerful Brave Bird. Croagunk really isn't too hard to fit onto a team as glue,(AC) but make sure it'(add apostrophe)s used in its niches; otherwise, a Pokemon such as Mienfoo is probably better.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulk Up
    move 1: Bulk Up
    move 2: Drain Punch
    move 3: Sucker Punch
    move 4: Payback / Knock Off / Vacuum Wave
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Dry Skin
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 212 HP / 28 Atk / 116 Def / 116 SpD / 36 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Bulk Up set, Croagunk can function as a setup sweeper, and this set highlights many of Croagunk's draws in Little Cup,(AC) including the ability to set up on the ubiquitous Fighting- and Water-types. It even beats Bulk Up Timburr without resorting to a low-utility move like Hidden Power Psychic. Bulk Up is required to increase Croagunk's Attack and Defense, letting it serve as a threat after a boost or two. Drain Punch gives good healing to a slow setup Pokemon. It's a pretty powerful with STAB and haswith an excellent offensive typing. Sucker Punch gives Croagunk a priority attack and with Drain Punch, gives neutral coverage on everything but opposing Croagunk. It has high power for a priority attack and prevents Croagunk from being revenge killed by frail Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Snover and Drifloon. Payback is a solid option in the last slot for hitting Ghosts using status moves, like Substitute Misdreavus, or Ghosts switching in. Knock Off can be used over Payback purely for its incredibly utility, but should only be used if you have a way to deal with Misdreavus with Taunt ofr(?? pretty sure that's what you meant here) Substitute. Vacuum Wave is invery much in the same boat as Knock Off, but isn't all that powerful without significant investment, so it should only be used if absolutely required.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Croagunk's bulk while dumping leftover EVs into Attack and Speed. A considerably more offensive spread can be used but will make Croagunk far harder to set up. If using Vacuum Wave, a Brave nature can be used, with Speed EVs moved to Special Attack if desired. Poison Touch is unviable on a Bulk Up set, as being able to be burned by Scald is unacceptable on a Pokemon that sets up on Water-types. Sucker Punch is much less able than a heavily invested Vacuum Wave to revenge kill many threats Croagunk could otherwise check, so keep that in mind.(This sentence sounds a little awkward to me, but I'm not sure how to fix that without changing its meaning. Something to keep in mind. You may just want to keep it as is.) It sets up best on Pokemon that can do little-to-nothing in return, such as Lileep, Chinchou, and Tirtouga. Just remember it's sometimes better mid-game to soften up checks with Drain Punch a little first than to immediately set up. Bulk Up Croagunk can be used as both either a mid-game utility Pokemon that beats Chinchou so as to allow MixKrow to wreak havokc or as a late-game sweeper once Misdreavus and Murkrow are removed.</p>

    <p>Using Substitute in the last slot helps to scout counters and essentially force them to attack next turn,(AC) making Sucker Punch that much more effective. Ice Punch is also usable to hit Grass-types and Murkrow harder. Without Ice Punch, Murkrow can easily switch in on Croagunk and force it out with the threat of Brave Bird, making Archen and Porygon excellent teammates. Burn is particularly crippling for Bulk Up Croagunk, making checking Misdreavus a top priority. Porygon again handles it very well. Foonguss and Larvesta resist Croagunk's Fighting-type STAB. Insomnia Murkrow and Early Bird Houndour deal with the former with ease while Larvesta is best beaten with Stealth Rock support and a bulky Water-type such as Chinchou.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Croagunk has one of the widest effective movepools in Little Cup. First and foremost, Croagunk can run a Nasty Plot set with Vacuum Wave, Shadow Ball, and Sludge Bomb, using Focus Blast over Sludge Bomb if preferred. Ice Punch is always a solid choice to hit Murkrow, Foonguss, and Shroomish effectively at the cost of flexibility. Rock Slide is again handy to hit Murkrow, but it also hits Larvesta and Ponyta meaning Croagunk needs to rely less on a bulky Water-type teammate to handle them. Earthquake can be used for its neutral coverage but it's redundant alongside Croagunk's Fighting STAB and you'd be losing a lot of utility dropping a move like Knock Off. Pursuit is hilariously weak but it can checkmate highly weakened Misdreavus. Taunt can be a decent option to attempt to prevent setup, but with such low Speed, the opponent is almost always guaranteed at least one turn of setup. Focus Punch can be used with Substitute as a very powerful STAB attack but running it has a huge opportunity cost. Finally, Croagunk's Poison-type STAB in the form of Poison Jab and Gunk Shot can be used, as they're pretty powerful, but they have mediocre-at-best coverage and Gunk Shot is depressingly inaccurate.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Ironically, Croagunk's best counter is itself (unless it's running Hidden Power Psychic), resisting its own STAB. Psychic-type attacks are its bane. Abra in particular almost always runs Protect to block Fake Out and will easily KO with Psychic. Shadow Ball will deal a great deal of damage to Abra, however, and some Croagunk run Sucker Punch, so Abra users must be cautious. Staryu with Psychic makes an excellent lure for Croagunk. Flying-types including Murkrow, Drifloon, Vullaby, and Mantyke will deal huge damage with their STAB attacks and take a pittance from Drain Punch. Misdreavus and Drifloon are immune to Drain Punch and can burn Croagunk or KO with Acrobatics, respectively, but must beware of Shadow Ball, Payback, and Sucker Punch. Frillish can burn it and just heal repeatedly with Recover.</p>

    <p>Larvesta is an excellent counter to Croagunk as it resists Fighting, takes a puny amount of damage from Sucker Punch,(AC) and threatens to retaliate with Will-O-Wisp or Flare Blitz. Ponyta can't switch in as easily nor stay in as easily, but again can burn it or smack it with a powerful attack. Ground-types, such as Hippopotas, Drilbur, and Sandshrew, threaten Croagunk immensely with Earthquake and are quite bulky. Bulk Up Timburr can set up on and beat Croagunk lacking Bulk Up or Hidden Power Psychic. Residual damage will wear down Croagunk, and switching in on powerful attacks such as Snover's Blizzard cuts down its lifespan greatly.</p>


    most of my changes were minor things to help with the flow. good stuff.
  14. Jukain

    Jukain .leaf
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,017
    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  15. mikel

    mikel frizy will carry ocn
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2011
    Messages:
    972
    we are done here 28 hours from start to finish

    emma upload me please
  16. Elevator Music

    Elevator Music
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2008
    Messages:
    7,742
    dont tell me what to do

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)