Dancing in the Rain - OU RMT

[Legacy Raider]

Some of you might have read my recent warstory which features my rain dance team. You've been entertained by it, watched its highs and lows. So now I'm asking you, smogon, to help me improve my team and have it reach its best.

In my opinion Platinum's metagame is the best yet to run a rain dance team in OU. All three perma-weather inducers in OU have had their fair share of negatives in the generation shift:

-> Scizor's Bullet Punch has reduced Tyranitar and Abomasnow usage.

-> The many pokemon with Trick and Shaymin-S have made Hippowdon and Stall very uncommon.

These factors combine to make Rain one of the most effective strategies available in Platinum. In such an offensive metagame, the ability to outspeed all of your opponents pokemon and having double STAB on as good an attacking type as water is invaluable. But enough ranting about rain's greatness, on with the RMT.
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At a glance: (in order of normal appearance in battle)

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Basic Strategy

This team is all out offense. No single pokemon on my team is 'dead weight' - each one can pull its own load and contribute to the rest of the team as well as having the ability of taking down at least one opposing pokemon. Once I have set up Rain Dance, I use my heavy hitting Swift Swimmers to tear holes in my opponent's team with their dual STAB water attacks. I use my primary Rain set uppers - Azelf and Bronzong - to set up 7 turns of downpour, set up some extra team support (SR, screens), and then Explode, hopefully bringing an enemy down with them. Once I have blasted through the opposing team with my other five pokemon, Scizor comes out and does his dance. He finishes my sweep, ties up any loose ends, and hopefully ends the game.
Now for the team itself:

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In Depth
Changes in Red
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Azelf @ Damp Rock
Levitate
Jolly (+Spe, -SpA)
252 HP, 252 Spe, 4 Atk

- Stealth Rock
- Rain Dance
- U-turn
- Explosion

Description: Azelf makes an excellent lead and is one of my personal favourites. I needed my lead to set up both Stealth Rock and Rain Dance, and be fast enough to not be Taunted by many opposing leads. Azelf fit the bill nicely. I also like running Explosion on a lot of my pokemon. Explosion is an excellent move - it easily takes down most opposing pokemon and it doesn't cost me any extra turns, so the sweeper coming in should be able to enjoy 6 turns of rain.

EVs: Since Stealth Rock, Rain Dance and Explosion were a must in Azelf's movepool, it made sense to not use a Special Attack in the last slot and be forced to use 252 SpA EVs just for that one attack. Instead I have used U-turn in the last slot, which allows me to scout out an enemy switch, and moved all the SpA EVs to HP. Azelf is actually surprisingly bulky with max HP, being able to survive things like an Adamant non-boosted Meteor Mash from Metagross and an unboosted Outrage from Salamence, among other things.

Team Support: Rain Dance, Stealth Rock
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Kingdra @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
180 HP, 252 SpA, 76 Spe

- Surf
- Dragon Pulse
- Signal Beam
- Rain Dance

Description: Kingdra is the reason I love rain dance teams. This thing is an absolute monster in the rain. Teams without a water resist or a Blissey can easily be taken down by this thing alone. Surf does excellent damage in the rain - OHKOing most bulky sweepers such as Scizor and Machamp after SR damage. Dragon Pulse is Kingdra's most reliable Dragon STAB, and together with Surf provides almost unresisted coverage. Signal Beam might seem like an odd move, but it easily OHKOs most Celebis, and hits harder than Dragon Pulse and Surf (without Rain) to things weak to it.

EVs: 252 SpA is a given, maximising Kingdra's special attacking capabilities. The Spe EVs are designed to hit 225 speed, which in the rain outruns Adamant Salamence after a DD by 2 points. The rest of the EVs go into HP, making Kingdra an pretty bulky sweeper. With its base 95 defenses, it can take most neutral hits well - just think of it as a max HP Deoxys-E with 32 extra HP.

Team Support: Rain Dance
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Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Swift Swim
Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
60 HP, 252 SpA, 196 Spe

- Surf
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Rain Dance

Description: With a base SpA only 5 points below Kingdra's, Ludicolo can hit things plenty hard with Surf. Energy Ball completes its STAB, and does tons of damage to Tyranitar, Suicune and Gyarados among others. Ice Beam allows it the quick finish on Salamence and co, and completes its attacking combination for almost perfect coverage. Ludicolo has really good resists (Ground, Water, Steel) and a decent base 100 SpD, allowing it to take a beating as well as dish one out.

EVs: Pretty straightforward. Once again the SpA is maxed, and the Spe EVs net it 225. The rest are dumped in HP.

Team Support: Rain Dance
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Bronzong @ Damp Rock
Levitate
Impish (+Def, -SpA)
252 HP, 128 Def, 128 Atk

- Rain Dance
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion

Description: Like I said in my warstory, Bronzong has to be the best transition pokemon in the game. Without a doubt. I don't worry about losing as long as I have Bronzong and a rain abuser left. This set takes advantage of Bronzong's amazing support movepool and allows me a second onslaught after my initial rain has died out. Reflect and Light Screen make turn my already bulky sweepers (Kingdra, Ludicolo and Scizor) into strong tanks. Also, with Rain Dance in play, Bronzong has no weakness, which is always a plus! When I'm done - simple explode.

EVs: Max HP for durability and Def EVs for good physical defense. Atk EVs let it do more damage with Explosion.

Team Support: Rain Dance, Reflect, Light Screen
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Kabutops @ Life Orb *Testing Qwilfish
Swift Swim
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
28 HP, 252 Atk, 228 Spe

- Waterfall
- Stone Edge
- X-Scissor
- Aqua Jet

Description: As a physical rain sweeper, Kabutops is top of the bench. With an excellent double Rock and Water STAB, very few things can safely switch into it without taking a hurting. Waterfall and Stone Edge are the basic STAB attacks. X-Scissor does a number on Celebi, Starmie, etc. Aqua Jet is handy on the team as I have no other priority attacks, and if my rain runs out I can still surprise the KO on things like Infernape. Also has helped me to deal with things like Scarf Dugtrio.

EVs: For Kabutops I decided to deviate from my standard rain sweeper spread. Max Atk is obvious, but I've given it enough speed to outrun Deoxys-E in the rain. I find this to be more helpful than pumping Kabutops' defenses, which unlike Kingdra and Ludicolo's, are rather lackluster.

Team Support: Nothing! Selfish little bugger.
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Scizor @ Damp Rock
Technician
Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Spe

- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Rain Dance

Description: Scizor is my late came sweeper, and boy does he do a good job. +2 Bullet Punches take out half the metagame, and in the end game it is pretty much unstoppable. Superpower gets the OHKO on Heatran switch ins, and is a pretty powerful attack against things like Vaporeon. Scizor can also use Rain Dance to further support the team and with a Damp Rock it will last for 7 turns. It has excellent synergy with Kingdra.

EVs: I choose a bulkier spread at the cost of speed. Its primary attack is Bullet Punch so it shouldn't matter too much, and this way Scizor is slower than Skarmory and can catch it with a Superpower as it Roosts. The 4 EVs in Spe ensure I outspeed other base 65s such as Vaporeon.

Team Support: Rain Dance


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Threat List

- Vaporeon
- Milotic
- Suicune
- Blissey
- Tentacruel
- Empoleon

These pokemon tend to cause my team a lot of trouble. Suggestions on how to deal with them are most welcome =).

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Indecisive

If you can't find any obvious faults with my team, then please give me a comment about the following things that I am unsure of in my team:

- Azelf's EV spread - more Atk less HP perhaps

- Rain Dance or Leech Seed on Ludicolo - Leech Seed would help with Blissey, but it will slow down my team.

- Bronzong's Item and EV spread - I was thinking of maybe replacing Damp Rock with Light Clay. Also, I really need an EV spread with more offense.

- Scizor's Item and move choice - Should I have Life Orb over Damp Rock, and Brick Break over Superpower?

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That's it for the team. If you want a better idea of how it works, I urge you to read my warstory, which showcases the team in the exact way it is meant to work.

Thanks for taking the time to read through this. Please leave tons of comments and criticisms and help me pimp my team =).

LR.

 

[Valantaro]

Rain Dance teams =D Putting aside my love for them, this team, on paper, seems to have a bit of trouble with Gyarados. Your Ludicolo takes 100.66%-118.60%
from +1 LO Stone Edge. In the rain, +1 LO Waterfall does 77.51%-91.42% to even Max/Max Bronzong

I strongly reccomend Vaporeon somewhere, as it can counter Gyara and soak up those water abusers trying to use RD to their advantage. Porygon2 is also sufficient, although Waterfall in the rain will likely 2HKO it.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks for the tip Valantaro, but I think you have some of your calculations a bit muddled up.

+1 Life Orb Gyarados Stone Edge vs 60/0 Ludicolo - 95.8 - 112.9%

+1 Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall in Rain vs 60/0 Ludicolo - 38.3 - 45.2%
Remember Ludicolo 4x resists Water.

In the rain, my Ludicolo outspeeds Gyarados, and does 65.5 - 77.3% with Grass Knot.

Ludicolo is also my physically weakest pokemon (after Azelf), so I should be able to take a beating from it. If the worst comes to the worst, I can always explode Bronzong on it.

But thanks for the Vaporeon and P2 suggestions. I'll keep them in mind.

 

[Sixonesix]

iirc it was common to use Energy Ball over Grass Knot on Ludicolo in order to hit Vaporeon harder. Just something to consider.

 

[RaikouLover]

Cool Team Legacy Rider... I'm going to steal it later!!! (no, I will test it though). My recommendations:

Ludicolo wants Energy Ball... Grass Knot is fucking shit. No just kidding, but Energy Ball will do 80% to Vaporeon and still 2HKO Suicune, Gyarados, and Milotic.

Kingdra is win, but if you want to help out with Blissey and Bulky Waters use my dangerous Mixdra set:

Mixdra @ Life Orb
Nature: Naughty
EVs: 252 Atk / 16 Spe / 240 SpAtk
*Waterfall
*Hydro Pump
*Draco Meteor
*Rain Dance

Hydro Pump is sex... Hydro Pump + Draco Meteor + Stealth Rock has a decent chance to beat Milotic and Suicune (they must switch in on Hydro!). Waterfall 2HKOs Tentacruel with Stealth Rock guarenteed, and will 3HKO Empoleon easily.


Kabutops.... sucks dick IMO. I personally like Qwilfish. It will give you a an outlet against those annoying pokemon allowing you to blow up on them. It will also absorb Toxic and Toxic Spikes for your team (which by the warstory... doesn't like too much).

Qwilfish @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / enough speed to hit 262 (Gyarados before Rain), and the rest in HP
*Waterfall
*Poison Jab (2HKOs Celebi easily, OHKOs Breloom and Skymin)
*Rain Dance
*Asplode!

Otherwise... this team is uber-cool!

Originally Posted by Fat Valantro

Rain Dance teams =D Putting aside my love for them, this team, on paper, seems to have a bit of trouble with Gyarados. Your Ludicolo takes 100.66%-118.60%
from +1 LO Stone Edge. In the rain, +1 LO Waterfall does 77.51%-91.42% to even Max/Max Bronzong

Rain Dance teams never get swept by Gyarados. It can't set up on anything... They ALL are faster even if it does DD.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Also, with Rain Dance in play, Bronzong has no weakness, which is always a plus! When I'm done - simple explode.

Is that really true? I suppose it is, if you consider the fire weakness neutralized by the rain. However, if you count that, then you have to say that he's got a new weakness to Water. I was surprised in your warstory how many Surfs he could take from Milotic, though.
What if your opponent were to pull out a Suicune with Rain Dance set up? Surf would at least 2HKO. Although, I suppose since you've got two double water resists on your team, I guess it's fine. The question is, can either Ludicolo or Kingdra really threaten Suicune? Suicune might be able to sit around and set up Calm Minds. I'm not sure, you'll have to do some damage calcs there.

Apart from that, great team! If possible, try to get a Vaporeon, for a more reliable Gyrados counter and the ability to absorb attacks from your opponents when then try to take advantage of your rain. Not to mention all the other amazing things Vaporeon can do, like Phaze, Baton Pass Wishes or Acid Armor.

 

[RaikouLover]

If Suicune starts Calm Minding Bronzong can just blow up on it. Ludicolo's Energy Ball / Grass Knot should KO from there.

 

[IceTime]

actually when i look at your threat list you should be able to play around most of the threats. i have been doing RD teams lately so maybe i'll try to give some feedback on what i've been doing while testing them.

- Vaporeon
Well Energy Ball on Ludicolo is almost a direct 'fuck you' to the little water dog, easily doing about 70-80% (i didn't do damage calc, it happened in battle) to most physically defensive vappys. meanwhile it can't do much back but toxic, but if you wanna predict that qwilfish comes in and cleansup with poison jab, so no problem there.

- Milotic
Energy Ball manages a 2HKO on all of the Milotic sets on Smogon, and likewise it can't do much in return to Ludicolo. The Light Screen set might actually require something else, like Qwilfish coming in and whacking it until it dies, or just blowing up. Either way Milotic doesn't look like much of a threat to you.

- Suicune
Energy Ball manages to dent Suicune so much before a CM, and after CM too. Bold ones, btw. The most Suicune can muster is a +1 Ice Beam, which does 157/316 at most to Ludicolo, and if Ludi switches in, it'll take approximately 3 energy balls to KO, assuming average damage, and assuming 252/0 spread for suicune. That way, Suicune always loses to Ludicolo as the only version of cune that can take Ludi is offensive, and offensive cune dies to Energy Ball even faster.

- Blissey
With Qwilfish to absorb toxic and snuff, 2HKOing blissey with waterfall, or just blowing up on it, i doubt its a problem. Scizor especially, since you have him on your team.

- Tentacruel
Yeah okay this ones a bit of a problem, but i don't see why MixDra is unable to take it. At most, Kabutops revenges it, and Tentacruel cant do jack except lay toxic spikes. if he tries to stall you, its an invitation for someone to go boom to blow the spikeys away.

- Empoleon
Empoleon cannot harm Ludicolo, while Ludicolo can drastically reduce its health turn after turn with Energy Ball. It can't do anything to MixDra too, so tough. I haven't been seeing Empoleon on the ladder lately, but when i do, normally powerful STAB water moves in the rain take it out just as simple as HP electric.

Also, the stuff you were indecisive about.

- Azelf's EV spread - more Atk less HP perhaps

You survive Salamence's Outrage with about 3-4 HP, at most, so assuming it doesnt do max damage, its definitely viable as a bomb to stop salamence. removing HP evs will not guarantee its survival, and whats the use of the few evs in attack anyway, explosion still does a hell lot of damage, and the evs aren't going to change whether its an OHKO or not. I say no to less hp.

- Rain Dance or Leech Seed on Ludicolo - Leech Seed would help with Blissey, but it will slow down my team.

Keep Rain Dance, Ludicolo is sturdy enough to set up and sweep with it. Blissey problems are steadily handled by qwilfish, kabutops and mixdra if you want to use it, and having more Rain Dancers is always good insurance against other weather teams.

- Bronzong's Item and EV spread - I was thinking of maybe replacing Damp Rock with Light Clay. Also, I really need an EV spread with more offense.

Damp Rock is better IMO, and your team is generally offensive with no setup like most RD teams, so the screens aren't really needed (actually your opponent needs them more than you with this kind of offense). They are very helpful though, dont remove them but Damp Rock>Light Clay. With Ev spread why not go with the Standard Torrential Zong spread? 128 attack 128 defense. with rain neutralizing zong's fire weakness, too much spdef investment isnt needed, and you could use the attack against things like suicune anyway.

- Scizor's Item and move choice - Should I have Life Orb over Damp Rock, and Brick Break over Superpower?

I really think life orb, to go along with the offensive tempo of your team, but damp rock could help as Scizor is sturdy. Plus too many life orb users means you really need to get done with the battle fast. Superpower>Brick Break even though with SD its redundant, but it helps greatly against blissey.


Team Rate

Well Azelf lead is really fantastic, its fast, gets the job done, and sorta gives you an offensive headstart with explosion. I have no qualms with most of your team, they hit hard, and hit fast, and you're actually countering other threats by being a bigger threat to the opponent's sweepers yourself. Qwilfish would be a fantastic addition to your team, giving you an unexpectedly solid physical sweeper, (its stronger than most people think it is) and another bomb to work with if things don't go in your favour. To absorb poison too of course. Scizor/MixDra/Qwilfish are a really strong attacking combo, and so is MixDra/Ludicolo. With a team that can damage so well on both sides of the spectrum, the opponent will be really hard pressed to stop your sweep, and will probably play incredibly defensively right off the bat. (well unless he also has a hyper offensive RD team)

Ludicolo is really underrated huh? =D its one of my faves. Great team, see its so cool that i typed so much. rate my RD team too! i posted it here not long ago.

My RD team!

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks for the rates, especially RaikouLover and IceTime for their extremely thorough ones. I'm going to incorporate in some of the minor changes that have been suggested, and I'll start testing MixDra and Qwilfish straightaway.

EDIT: Raikou, MixDra just isn't working for me. I'm gonna stick with Special attacking Kingdra. But Qwilfish works a dream!

 

[LordKotsu]

Solid Team

A very solid team, I like it over all, here are a few thoughts I had over all about this team.


Azelf

A perfect lead for this team. As you said perfectly bulky with that HP, I say keep it just like it since it works for you, sure a little more Atk would be nice, but if you die how much would that Atk help? So I have no changes for this guy, good set.


Kingdra

I have to agree with earlier posters, having a Mixdra would be best, having at least one Mix user on a team is a great idea. Can't say much more than this.

Ludicolo

I really like this guy, and your set looks good, but maybe a little less speed, for more bulkyness, might be good IMO. Like split it 128 in speed and health, I'll test it before making a final say on this.

Bronzong

Don't know what to say with him, I rarely use Zong, but from what I've seen about Zong this set is very good, and helps a low defense team have high defense, and offense.

Kabutops

I agree that Fish will work better here, as the typing is better, and can explode is always a plus. Nothing more I can say here.

Scizor

This set surprised when I looked at it, but I started thinking about it, and it's a very good set, but since he is your late game sweeper, I say put Life Orb on him since who is going to be using the Damp Rock Rain at that point, your opponent more and likely.

Final thoughts

Over all a very solid team, keep up the good work, and should win you many matches, keep up the good work.

 

[Valantaro]

Thanks for the tip Valantaro, but I think you have some of your calculations a bit muddled up.

+1 Life Orb Gyarados Stone Edge vs 60/0 Ludicolo - 95.8 - 112.9%

+1 Life Orb Gyarados Waterfall in Rain vs 60/0 Ludicolo - 38.3 - 45.2%
Remember Ludicolo 4x resists Water.

In the rain, my Ludicolo outspeeds Gyarados, and does 65.5 - 77.3% with Grass Knot.

Ludicolo is also my physically weakest pokemon (after Azelf), so I should be able to take a beating from it. If the worst comes to the worst, I can always explode Bronzong on it.

But thanks for the Vaporeon and P2 suggestions. I'll keep them in mind.

Where did I mention Ludicolo gets OHKO'd from Waterfall ._. ?

 

[garchompnoubber]

I have a rain dance team too but I put vaporeon and dewgong.With the rain dewgong will do the combo known as rain rest thanks to his hidratation ability he can use rest and wake up instantly.vaporeon trow surf(stab+95basepower+raindance=lot of damage)but it is your desition Im only suggesting some pokes for a rain dance team

 

[gec]

I love me a good Rain Team :). Nice one.

I just took a glimse at what gives you trouble. One pokemon stands out for me that both functions well on a Rain Team and of course beats those threats; Electivire. While you may be reluctant to replace anything for it due to the great synergy here, I suggest you do. It can absorb Thunderbolts aimed at Kabutops, can use Thunder because of the rain (though I still think TPunch is better), and with the standard Physical set, it can beats everything on your threat list:

Vaporeon, Milotic, Tentacruel and Empoleon

-Of course ThunderPunch significantly hurts all of these bulky waters here.

Blissey

-Absorbs Thunder Waves which your team absolutely hates. You know if Bliss switches in on your Kingdra (really should go mixed here) or Ludicolo, and uses TWave, something will be hindered greatly. You can get the speed boost here and Cross Chop it to hell.

Suicune

-The Problem with using Ludicolo is that if Suicune builds up a substantial amount of Calm Minds it is unscathed by Energy Ball. Using a Physical SE attack on a CMCune is better since you will always deal constant damage to it. Therefore using a Physical Electivire here will be great so you can 2HKO any Suicune.

A set for it such as:

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Adamant - 252 Attack/252 Speed/6HP
-ThunderPunch
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Cross Chop

Now the dilemna of what you replace it with. I say you Scizor for it. I don't see Scizor doing well with that set and on rain teams pretty much all your Pokemon are "late game sweepers". Therefore I must question it's usage on this team. Don't worry about adding another Ground weakness; Bronzong and to an extent Ludicolo can take those.

Thats all I have to say. Great team (Y).

 

[DiglettX3]

I see Zapdos giving this team a serious problem (especially those with Toxic). For this reason alone, I would reccomend keeping him over Quilfish, because you could be pretty screwed unless you sent him in and Stone Edged him. The Surf's from you're team's sweepers might be enough to take him out, but I haven't done calcs yet. If SR is set up I guess you could wear it down with repeated switches, but just looking makes it seam like he may be a problem. Good team btw, haven't seen a decent Rain Dance (or Sunny Day for that matter) in a while.

EDIT: Shouldn't have spoken before I did calcs. Kingdra and even Ludicolo can 2hko with Surf if the rain is up. May need to worry about the rare scarf versions though.

 

[McGrrr]

Nevermind anything else; opposing swift swim Kingdra are your largest threat, although most dragon dancing ones currently run sniper. Explosion is not beating any substitute variants in rain so you will have to lure it into outrage lock first, but that could cost you two Pokemon. Therefore, Empoleon seems like the prudent option over either Ludicolo or Kabutops. You lose Starmie insurance if you ditch the former, so I would recommend the swords dance/aqua jet version over the latter.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Where did I mention Ludicolo gets OHKO'd from Waterfall ._. ?

Woops, my bad. But I've faced many Gyarados before and they haven't been a problem. All my guys except Scizor can either OHKO or 2HKO Gyarados, and aren't weak to any of its attacks.

I love me a good Rain Team :). Nice one.

I just took a glimse at what gives you trouble. One pokemon stands out for me that both functions well on a Rain Team and of course beats those threats; Electivire. While you may be reluctant to replace anything for it due to the great synergy here, I suggest you do. It can absorb Thunderbolts aimed at Kabutops, can use Thunder because of the rain (though I still think TPunch is better), and with the standard Physical set, it can beats everything on your threat list:


-Of course ThunderPunch significantly hurts all of these bulky waters here.

-Absorbs Thunder Waves which your team absolutely hates. You know if Bliss switches in on your Kingdra (really should go mixed here) or Ludicolo, and uses TWave, something will be hindered greatly. You can get the speed boost here and Cross Chop it to hell.

-The Problem with using Ludicolo is that if Suicune builds up a substantial amount of Calm Minds it is unscathed by Energy Ball. Using a Physical SE attack on a CMCune is better since you will always deal constant damage to it. Therefore using a Physical Electivire here will be great so you can 2HKO any Suicune.

A set for it such as:

Electivire @ Expert Belt
Adamant - 252 Attack/252 Speed/6HP
-ThunderPunch
-Earthquake
-Ice Punch
-Cross Chop

Now the dilemna of what you replace it with. I say you Scizor for it. I don't see Scizor doing well with that set and on rain teams pretty much all your Pokemon are "late game sweepers". Therefore I must question it's usage on this team. Don't worry about adding another Ground weakness; Bronzong and to an extent Ludicolo can take those.

Thats all I have to say. Great team (Y).

Great rate, thanks. Electivire does seem really promising, but Scizor has been working excellently for me. I don't think I really want to replace him. My most questionable pokemon has to be the last slot - Kabutops/Qwilfish. I'll test Electivire there for a while. But then the problem is that I only have two Swift Swimmers.... I'll test combinations of Evire with the rest of my team.
I've tried MixDra, but I just find its not powerful or bulky enough - rather a compromise between the two. I realise it would help my team and for that reason I'm willing to give him another shot, but I really do prefer the special sweeping one.

I see Zapdos giving this team a serious problem (especially those with Toxic). For this reason alone, I would reccomend keeping him over Quilfish, because you could be pretty screwed unless you sent him in and Stone Edged him. The Surf's from you're team's sweepers might be enough to take him out, but I haven't done calcs yet. If SR is set up I guess you could wear it down with repeated switches, but just looking makes it seam like he may be a problem. Good team btw, haven't seen a decent Rain Dance (or Sunny Day for that matter) in a while.

EDIT: Shouldn't have spoken before I did calcs. Kingdra and even Ludicolo can 2hko with Surf if the rain is up. May need to worry about the rare scarf versions though.

If there is no rain, Zapdos can take out at least 2 of my guys. Thunderbolt + Heat Wave do a number to this team. In my battles I try to make sure I avoid a situation like that if I don't have Light Screen.

Nevermind anything else; opposing swift swim Kingdra are your largest threat, although most dragon dancing ones currently run sniper. Explosion is not beating any substitute variants in rain so you will have to lure it into outrage lock first, but that could cost you two Pokemon. Therefore, Empoleon seems like the prudent option over either Ludicolo or Kabutops. You lose Starmie insurance if you ditch the former, so I would recommend the swords dance/aqua jet version over the latter.

I've been testing a max speed Qwilfish in the last slot, who has the same base speed as Kingdra. I should be able to outspeed and OHKO with Explosion, but yeah, other Kingdra abusing my rain can be quite a problem.

Thanks.

 

[Vincent_Valentine_4]

So I see a SD Luke running over you if you let him get that SD in. That is if you aren't using Kabutops over Qwilfish and a lot of zapdos use defensive sets so you can just have bronzong screen then explode and revenge kill the zapdos.

 

[RaikouLover]

Good to see your team is doing well Legacy Rider. Mixdra doesn't work for everyone so special Kingdra is fine... any Kingdra is fine!

threats people keep mentioning:

Zapdos - I seriously don't see this thing being a threat. Kingdra's Surf OHKOs.... Ludicolo's comes awfully close too IIRC (I think its just a matter of random damage)... and you can explode on it with Qwil if things get ugly.

Bulky Waters - I presume Energy Ball solved the Vaporeon problem well. I'm tying to convince Stellar in his Ludicolo rate that Energy Ball > Grass Knot for this reason alone, while still 2HKOing all the other ones.

Swords Dance Luke - Are you serious? Swords Dance Luke is a minor threat to Rain Dance teams and well never sweep one. Adding Zapdos to counter this is foolish... why? Luke will probably only have 1 time in the match where he can get a Swords Dance off, and that is if your opponent PERFECTLY counts the rain to the point where Luke comes in when the rain stops against one of your sweepers. In that situation, all you have to do is whack it with your Life Orb Waterfall / Surf rather than rain dancing and you just claimed 80% of his HP... netting him AT MOST... 2 kills. Oh yeah, Kingdra eats Life Orb Extremespeed... doesn't even come close to OHKOing.

Swift Swim DD Kingdra - Send out your own Kingdra and lure an outrage to bronzong / scizor. Case closed.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks for the help everyone. My rain team has been working amazingly - easily got my rating up and past 1600. I win almost all my matches against other offensive teams, but I tend to struggle quite a bit with stall teams.

Recently I've been having lots of trouble with a friend of mine who has Hippowdon, Vaporeon, Blissey and Rotom-H on the same team. The Bliss/Rotom combination I find particularly hard to take down. Blissey can take all my special attacks, while Rotom can take all my Explosions, counter my Scizor and Qwilfish, and whenever I bring in Kingdra or Ludicolo to finish it off in comes Blissey and gets off a Wish. I'm pretty sure it's not bad play on my part - I think I've almost perfected the strategy with this team. Rather, it's just that I literally cannot take that combo down.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[RaikouLover]

Thats a tough combination man, I hear yeah. Thats one of the cases where Mixdra or Mixed Floatzel would help you. But if your team is working like a charm why fix it? You just have to try to tough those out. They are almost like anti-rain teams. I once fought someon with a Rain Dance team they had Tyranitar, Vaporeon, Blissey, AND Celebi. I had just replaced my Dugtrio too, so the combination of Tyranitar + Vaporeon annoyed the hell out of me.. and I was using Mixdra so beat the Blissey but couldnt get by Vappy or Celebi.