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Darwinian Theory: UU Edition Round 3.5

Discussion in 'BW UU' started by Ace Emerald, Feb 5, 2013.

?

Who would you like to see play?

Poll closed Feb 25, 2013.
  1. Ace Emerald

    7 vote(s)
    43.8%
  2. Pocket

    4 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. RT.

    5 vote(s)
    31.3%
  4. reachzero

    8 vote(s)
    50.0%
  5. kd24

    3 vote(s)
    18.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Horsing around
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    Credit for DTC for the idea and OP.

    What is This?

    Welcome to UU Survival of the Fittest. In this interactive project, there are two teams pitted against each other. You have to try to figure out which team has a better chance of winning against the other team. There are multiple factors you should consider when trying to figure out which team has a better chance of winning, including but not limited to weaknesses to opposing Pokemon, ease in prediction, and dependency on luck factors.

    This will also work like a BOTW of sorts. While the rounds are taking place, people may nominate players to battle against each other with one of the two teams. Post which player you would like to see battle in this thread, but that post must have other content otherwise it is null and void. If you do not have a chance to make a post with sufficient content, you may VM me your nomination. A week after the last set of teams was posted, a poll that will last two days will be put up with the nominated players. After that ends, the two teams will battle and then the cycle will repeat.

    Point System

    There will be a point system involved in this. Whoever has the most points whenever I (or a UU mod) decide to close or suspend this project wins. If you win, you will earn a spot in the Hall of Fame. There may be some other goodies down the line for you as well.

    How to get points:
    • Predict which team is going to win right.
    • Be one of the battlers and win the battle.
    • Win the subjective "master debater" award.

    All of those reward you one point each.

    If you consistently get jipped out of points because of luck, you know who to complain to.

    Master Debater Award

    Whoever makes the most convincing arguments in any given week will win the best debater award. If you win this award, you will be granted a point. Do note that this award is subjective, and that kokoloko, RT, and I will decide on the winner.


    leaderboard (open)

    kokoloko: 3
    TPO3: 2
    Metal Sonic: 2
    Ernesto: 2
    Queen of Randoms: 2
    Pocket: 1
    Silenced: 1
    Bad Ass: 1
    Santuga: 1
    JabbaTheGriffin: 1
  2. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Horsing around
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    Team 1
    Show Hide

    Zapdos @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Heat Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Victini @ Life Orb
    Trait: Victory Star
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Blue Flare
    - Psyshock
    - U-turn
    - Thunder

    Mienshao @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
    Hasty Nature
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - U-turn
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Stone Edge

    Shaymin @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Seed Flare
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Rest

    Gligar @ Eviolite
    Trait: Immunity
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock
    - U-turn
    - Roost

    Heracross @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake


    Team 2
    Show Hide

    Roserade @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Spikes
    - Synthesis

    Rhyperior @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 244 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Rock Blast
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Tail

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 220 Spd / 252 SAtk / 36 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Cofagrigus @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
    Quiet Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick Room
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 248 HP / 236 Def / 24 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Roost
    - Substitute

    Porygon2 @ Eviolite
    Trait: Analytic
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 SDef / 176 Def
    Calm Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave
    - Thunderbolt
  3. silenced

    silenced

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    Team 2 should have this game easily.

    Gligar is an atrocious liability here, as every time it comes in to do something, it MUST use u-turn immediately or else roserade gets a free layer of spikes up. With all grounded pokemon but heracross having life orbs, and questionable or no recovery barring mienshao (who loses health from attacking and switching if all three layers go up), that is not something team 1 can afford to have happen to it. Stealth Rock only compounds the issue for team 1, with a choiced zapdos and LO victini with no spinner.

    The choiced zapdos is pretty awful too, IMO. It offers free set-up for rhyperior for any attack barring hidden power ice, which then gives either suicune or P2 a free switch-in. P2 is also a disaster for team 2, as only gligar can avoid being T-waved, who instead dies either to a predicted ice-beam, or worse, allows roserade to switch in for more spikes OR shaymin must take it, and either be forced to rest (bad free turn is bad), or switch out and risk someone eating damage they cannot afford to take, .

    Cofagrigous is just icing on the cake with the OTR set. Just get it in with some hazards, use TR and team 1 comes under so much pressure, from losing one of its two precious advantages; speed.

    The only realistic way I could see team 1 winning this at all is from god-like prediction, double switching, and the use of the volt-turn core at its disposal. Then again, I haven't even covered the problems of rhyperior getting to use dragon tail if hazards are up (even more free damage yay) or quite possibly one of the worst scenarios, the zapdos on team 2 getting up a substitute while SR is on the field of team 1. There would be no safe way whatsoever for team 1 to break the sub without risking heavy damage or fainting from the safely thrown thunderbolt/HP flying.

    Basically
    -gligar entering the battlefield or zapdos using any move barring HP ice results in hazards going up, wearing team 1 down.
    -zapdos of team 2 getting a sub up while SR on field wears down team 1.
    -the variety of pokemon on team 2 prevents any one of team 1's pokemon from sweeping (looking at you moxiecross) or landing any sort of crippling damage without extremely good prediction.
  4. /B/utterfree

    /B/utterfree

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    Team 2 has a better chance of victory just from match-up alone.

    For Team 1, Gligar is a Poke who I'd replace very easily with just about any other 'mon for tankage. The main reason for this is because most Pokes use HP Ice or Ice Beam as a coverage move, and Gligar really can't take those attacks very well. Most of the mons on Team 2 can handle what it's got, and in order to escape without costing momentum it must use U-turn.

    Mienshao and Heracross aren't good for synergy either. I'd replace Mienshao, if only because it's not really needed on the team since you already have a primary Fighting-type who's meant to hit hard. Regenerator is nice, but you could stand to not have two 'mons who are virtually redundant other than Mienshao's specialization as a lead. Team 1 is in dire need of something which can effectively stop Roserade from getting all those Spike layers up. A Weavile or Bisharp might be more appropriate for the given situation.

    Not to mention, since Team 1 doesn't have a way of effectively stopping Roserade's hazards it will crumble to residual damage very easily. Those Life Orbs suddenly become more of a nuisance than a help. You'd honestly have to be better-skilled at the game in order to use Team 1 without getting roflstomped against Team 2.

    Team 2's team isn't perfect either. That Zapdos set is really odd, and I'm not entirely certain I understand the purpose of Hidden Power Flying, when it could just use Heat Wave instead for most of the opposing team anyway (and also get burn, which cripples most of Team 1's mons), or Whirlwind to help be better at synergy with the rest of the team, which seems like it would be adept at hazards and phazing.

    That said, Team 2's got better synergy. Roserade/Rhyperior/Suicune is a really good defensive combination. Factor in Offensive Trick Room Cofagrigus, and Team 1 doesn't really stand much of a chance even with Specially-based Victini not being Choice-locked into a move and having really good coverage to handle a chunk of its opposition.

    Personally, for Team 2 I'd replace the Porygon2 with Cresselia. Cresselia's SubCM set would force a switch-in to Heracross, who will have considerable difficulty taking its STAB move (especially if CM-boosted). Not to mention it can use Ice Beam and pretty much laugh at Gligar. While that isn't too great against-

    >Team 1 has three 'mons weak to Ice (Gligar, Shaymin, and Zapdos)
    >Team 1 only has one Ice resistor (Victini)
    >two other mons in Team 1 are also weak to Cresselia's STAB (Heracross, Mienshao)

    Nevermind. With just Psychic and Ice Beam, Cresselia could be more adept at taking on almost all of Team 1, while only worrying about the Victini, whom Rhyperior almost straight-up walls even when the Fire-type is using Special attacks (and U-turn?). It could also still get away with a mono-attacking set as Team 1 has nothing to stop a Cresselia from setting up on it other than an intensely predictable Toxic from Gligar, who would get Sub'd on as the user of Team 1 switches the Ground/Flying in.

    tl;dr - Team 2 is going to win very, VERY easily.
  5. tehy

    tehy

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    Most convincing argument, you say? Forget overarching points. Forget complex logic. Why overthink it? Let's just break down team 1's matchups.

    Victini:SpD Rhyperior beasts it pretty hard. Nothing it has does much, he Ko's back easily, and he can even set rocks to limit Victini to 4 switch-ins max. Yes, it can U-turn, but i wonder if that, after lefties, does more than LO recoil?

    Mienshao: Cofagrigus has Mienshao pretty well covered. Stone edge could do a good bit, but if he hits Cofagrigus with it, he can't even heal with Regenerator, which means that he can only realistically heal if it dies quickly (Unlikely), or if he double switches.

    Shaymin: Zapdos walls it without a SpD drop and hits back nicely with HP ice. If Zapdos gets a sub, even without special attack investment, something is taking a hard one to the face. Roserade can tank it pretty well and set Spikes, or just pivot-switch to let Zapdos recover from SpD drops. With Pressure, Shaymin can only gamble for a drop 4 times-odds Zapdos likes.

    Heracross: Again, Cofa covers him nicely, and now Zapdos does too. He could win eventually with really good predictions, however. Not totally walled but heavily checked.

    Zapdos: SpD Rhyperior can still be smacked with HP ice, but other than that, it's pretty much walled. Of course, Suicune can use that HP ice to set up a CM, at which point it's probably getting a kill-i doubt Shaymin Ohko's. Roserade can take electric attacks or an HP ice and thus scout which one without being too damaged.

    Gligar: As mentioned above, Roserade and all of its many spikes. If either Suicune or Zapdos come in on Roost or SR (Pretty likely considering), they can set up pretty easily. Zapdos sets a sub, at which point whatever tries to break the sub loses probably half of its life (Gligar can't really do much back, so it'd just be a stallwar). Suicune can set CMs pretty freely. If Gligar Toxics it, it can just set extra CMs, which should let it tank a Flare/Thunder even with Toxic damage. (Or it just kills gligar, which means that Rhyperior can do some serious damage.) And Porygon-2 can freeze it in exchange for being Toxic'd. (It lacks Trace so it can't steal Immunity, unfortunately.)


    I think we can see pretty clearly here that team 2 has a massive advantage. It just wins matchups across the board. Team 1 could try to Volt-Turn endlessly, but without stellar prediction, it's probably cooked even then.

    Oh and i just realised- Team 2 interacts with team 1 like a full stall team, shutting its threats down defensively with ease. Yet at the same time, it's got 3 members with a base attack/SpA stat above 125, two fully invested base 90's with boosting moves, and one base 105 with Analytic, which definitely helps make up for it. Convincing enough for you?
  6. Metal Sonic

    Metal Sonic Turn it up!
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    Team 2 will win.

    Because Team 1 has been counterteamed.

    cbf to put any tl;dr arguments anymore, discouraged due to the lack of "Master Debater Awards" ;-;

    I'll jsut go master predicter
  7. Mazz

    Mazz UU's Workhorse
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    Round 4 needs to be a close "1-0 by a speed-tie" kinda match-up. These lopsided matchups are getting boring and repetitive.

    Needless to say, Team 2 has this one in the bag because it has such a defensive match-up to Team 1's win conditions. Every individual member of Team 1 has a counter found on Team 2 - it's textbook counterteaming. Heracross and Mienshao are stone-walled by Cofagrigus, Gligar is crushed by Suicune, Zapdos and Victini by Rhyperior, and Shaymin by Zapdos. The combination of hazards from Rhyperior and Roserade egregiously limit what Victini can do for Team 1, and even then, Rhyperior destroys that Victini spread (seriously, Blue Flare?). Shaymin cannot be relied upon to muscle past Porygon2 either, as Zapdos can come in and beat it nearly every time with Hidden Power Flying (which does do more than a Heat Wave actually, and doesn't miss), and just move on to the next opponent. Heracross cannot scratch Cofagrigus unless it's compiled a few Moxie boosts, which it'll be hard-pressed to find, and Mienshao just dies, as it's "prevented" from spamming Hi-Jump-Kick in fear of Cofagrigus switching-in on it and it failing, and is thus forced to rely upon Stone Edge to do any real damage, which doesn't touch Cofagrigus for a shit. Even though Cofagrigus is running its OTR set, it still takes a paltry 31.56 - 37.5% from Stone Edge - a 3HKO at best. Gligar just dies to Suicune or Porygon2, simply put. It's a shit Pokemon consuming a slot on Team 1.

    Ace, I really appreciate what you're doing here. This is a really fun project. But some effort on the match-ups would be nice. If you want one of us to pull away with one of these "Master Debater Awards", give us something to argue with each other about. It's in the name for Christ sakes. So please, next round, give us a challenge, and a mean one too.
  8. Santuga

    Santuga

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    Team 2 is going to get the win. Team 1 has a bunch of offensive Pokemon that are checked by at least 2 of Team 2's members due to its extremely good defensive synergy. The most threatening Pokemon on Team 1 is probably the Specs Zapdos, but it lacks HP Grass to hurt Rhyperior badly, and Porygon2 is always a safe check regardless. After setting up Stealth Rock (and it's easy to do so, as Rhyperior can come in on Zapdos, Gligar, Heracross and Victini), Team 1 just need to play safe and slowly wear down Team 1's Zapdos little by little, as Team 2's Zapdos 2HKOes everything else once it gets behind a Substitute.
  9. Ernesto

    Ernesto is a motionless pedophile
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    Eh, I know I'm not a great player, but if there's something I'm sure of, is of textbook stuff in Pokemon. And what people have said surely isn't the definition of counterteaming. For you to completely counter an opposing team, you should have your Pokemon switch into only one opponent to prevent it from being overwhelmed, so if you use Cofagrigus as your answer to both Mienshao and Hera, you're bound to get weakened. The same goes on the special side, if you're using Rhyperior to counter both Victini and Specs Zapdos. So yeah, each of your Pokemon should have one main target to avoid losing a matchup and then the game, minimizing the risk. Even then, that's just assuming that all Team 2 has to do is react to what Team 1 does.

    An example of this is Mienshao using Stone Edge on the predicted Cofagrigus switchin and immediately switch out—without U-turn to avoid getting worn down by hazards—to a Pokemon which forces Cofagrigus out, such as LO Shaymin. That kind of stuff gives you less space to react, even if you have one Pokemon on a respective function—say, Cofag for Mienshao, Zapdos (Cofag) for Hera, Roserade (Zapdos) for Shaymin, Rhyperior (Roserade) for Zapdos, Porygon2 (Rhyperior) for Victini, and Suicune (Porygon2) for Gligar. This would be a better example for counterteaming, minimizing risk such as Rhyperior being burnt by Blue Flare (20% of the time), and Porygon2 being Toxiced, forcing it to recover more often.

    Now this is just for the defensive part, since Team 2 isn't really a stall team and it actually tries to win—man, I'm actually quoting Borat here? Either way his guide was pure gold so I shouldn't feel that bad about it—instead of just not losing. With Roserade setting up Spikes, Cofagrigus setting up Trick Room—since I'm pretty sure it won't have time to actually use NP often against an offensive team like Team 1—and Suicune using Calm Mind can threaten to sweep the weakened opposition, just as long as Specs Zapdos and LO Shaymin are kept in check. The problem I see here is that Team 1 can prevent Team 2 from setting up their win conditions by forcing them out via double switching, since Cofag lacks recovery outside of Lefties so it can be broken past. That's when Dragon Tail Rhyperior actually becomes useful, since it's the only Pokemon that can phaze its counters on the switch, hopefully racking up hazard damage.

    All in all, while I don't think it'll be that easy to pull off as others say, I still think Team 2 has the advantage here, mainly because it has a clearer win condition—Team 1's best bet is Mienshao once Cofagrigus is downed, since I doubt Hera would be able to break through Zapdos/Suicune/Porygon2/Rhyperior unless they're all really weakened—Mienshao has the advantage of KOing Zapdos with Stone Edge after it switched into HJK+SR, Suicune and Rhyperior are OHKOed by HJK after two/three switches to SR, etc. Team 2 can just rack up hazard damage with Cofagrigus and Suicune until they can get the opening to set up, so I'm pretty sure it has the advantage. Even then, Cofagrigus is too valuable here, both as a wincon and as the only thing preventing Mienshao from sweeping lategame.

    Here's some calcs for the thinking process:
    Show Hide
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Suicune: 239-282 (70.08 - 82.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 322-380 (74.36 - 87.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 176 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 328-385 (87.7 - 102.94%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Zapdos: 109-129 (28.45 - 33.68%) -- possible 4HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Zapdos: 224-265 (58.48 - 69.19%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 120 Def Roserade: 180-213 (55.55 - 65.74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Cofagrigus: 100-118 (31.25 - 36.87%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    Mienshao is clearly the win condition here, once Cofag has been downed

    Show Hide
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Shaymin: 115-136 (33.72 - 39.88%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Zapdos: 127-150 (39.56 - 46.72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Gligar: 109-130 (32.63 - 38.92%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mienshao: 195-229 (71.95 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini: 258-306 (75.65 - 89.73%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Cofagrigus Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heracross: 120-142 (39.86 - 47.17%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Spikes

    While most of those calcs seem unimpressive, Cofagrigus doesn't need any Pokemon down to sweep, it just needs hazard support to turn those 3HKOes into 2HKOes, while it can even survive powerful blows in return if it's kept safe:

    252 SpA Choice Specs Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 219-258 (68.43 - 80.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Cofagrigus: 207-243 (64.68 - 75.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    I don't wanna forget about defensive SubRoost Zapdos, since it's been stated as a wincon for Team 2. While it's definitely easy for it to set up, one has to keep in mind that it's outsped by 83% of Team 1, so while it will be able to do some damage with hazards, I'd hesitate to put it in a high shelf, at least not with Cofag and Suicune. Even then, I think that Roar Zapdos would've been better for Team 2 in this matchup, I don't think a secondary move is that mandatory when you're not investing in Special Attack, and you're already slower than everything else so we might as well take advantage of it, right? Defensive Zapdos is still a bitch, so it's surely a big threat for Team 1, but I don't think it's a clear win condition.

    EDIT: I'd like to nominate Ace Emerald and RT., if it's not too early for that
  10. Ace Emerald

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    To be fair, I felt the previous 2 rounds were pretty even. The losing team R1 still won one match, and last round there were good arguments on both sides. I am sorry that this round appears so lopsided, but I would like to say that I'm not just throwing teams together and looking at the match up. I come up with the themes for each time, make a draft, run it by RT. and koko who make edits and fix my mistakes. Then I verify the final drafts before posting. So I mean its not like this is just something I'm bs'ing. Now to talk about this specific round more.

    Team 1 looks almost nothing like the original. I wanted this round to be a momentum based team versus a semi-stall team, and that naturally gives momentum a huge advantage. Holding the power in a situation is so beneficial for weakening your opponents, damaging the stops to your sweep, and wrecking. FlareBlitz helped me fix the teams, and we quickly realized we had to seriously nerf Team 1. The teams were about "even" in terms of Pokemon and countering, but in the battle, Team 1 would always have the upper hand. Maybe FlareBlitz and I "fixed" Team 1 a little too much, I'll own up to my mistakes. Since everyone (pretty rightly) is siding with Team 2, I'm going to talk with some users and make a few small moveset changes that I think will iron this lopsidedness right out. These aren't official yet, but I'm considering HP Grass over Ice on Zapdos and Grass Knot over Thunder on Victini. This basically neuters Rhyperior, a valuable part of Team 2 as it holds SR, and forces Teams 2 to use Porygon to stop both Victini and Zapdos. Smart U-turning and Volt Switching to Mienshao seriously affects Porygon2's Team use. Again, these changes aren't final, but I think the gap between these Teams is very easily bridged, and I'll ensure that the match and discussion are pretty evenly matched.

    And yes Ernesto, now is the time to nominate.
  11. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    I think team 2 is going to win. I don't think Team 1 has enough time or ways to add up damage on the Pokemon on Team 2. Team 1 is eventually going to need to break through Team 2 if it wants to set up a sweep, but I just can't see it happening. Team 2 just has too many stops in my opinion.

    I'll also nominate Ace Emerald and Pocket to play this week.
  12. Ace Emerald

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    Attention:

    To balance teams and further provoke discussion, the Specs Zapdos set will be changed to an all out attacker. If you have already posted a solid argument, your post will still be considered for Master Debater. Those who felt they couldn't discuss the match up properly, now's your chance. Sorry for the screw up, happy predictions everyone!
  13. Nas

    Nas Thinking of a master plan...
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    LO Zapdos gives team 1 some hope, but I think that team 2 still has the edge. Residual damage from Spikes + late-game OTR Cofagrigus is going to overwhelm team 1 in the end, and team 2 still has a full stop to Zapdos in Porygon2. Team 1's best chance is to prevent Spikes and wear down Cofagrigus, then sweep with Mienshao. This is obviously easier said than done, as player 2 just has to play conservatively with Cofagrigus in order to secure a win.

    reachzero and kd24
  14. TPO3

    TPO3 Never practice; Always perform.

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    I still cast my vote for team 2 as well, however I do think it becomes a closer match. I do feel that team 2 does still have stops to everything team 1 throws at it, although there's some new hope. If Shaymin can get some SpDef drop hax against its normal switch-ins, Porygon2 and Roserade will be much easier to wear down, and that could potentially turn the tide in team 1's favor. As it stands though, I think Team 2 has the edge, and I also agree that the Spikes and Cofagrigus are going to be (or at least should be) too overwhelming in the end, so I cast my vote for Team 2
  15. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    Team two will win because it simply has a good matchup.

    People are definitely overstating this fact but it remains the truth. If Victini had Grass Knot and Focus Blast > U-turn and Thunder, then maybe the combination of it and LO Zapdos would give it a nice way to break though team two, but as it stands, too many of team one's Pokemon are hard-countered by team two's. This will make it very hard to overwhelm stuff.

    kd24 and reachzero

    next stage btw
  16. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Horsing around
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    Poll up! Sorry this stage was so stagnant, I'll consult with more users from the ground up to make next round much closer and give more room for discussion, thanks for bearing with me through this skewed round.
  17. scizzy

    scizzy

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    Team 1 will win because Zapdos can take everything Team 2 has and Victini takes out its only counter, Rhyperior
  18. Ace Emerald

    Ace Emerald Horsing around
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    Reachzero and I won the poll, and we played tonight. Reach liked Team 1, so he took it and I took Team 2. I won 2-0 in one incredibly haxy game and one pretty decent game. Again, thanks for bearing with me through this stagnant round, I hope to straighten out some bugs in the next round.
  19. kokoloko

    kokoloko from Mexico
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    logs???????
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