Die, Lull. Die!

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#51
That isn't a stickied guide. Thats a website guide. Theres a massive difference, because I'd be willing to bet the vast majority of newcomers discover CAP just by looking at the forums. That website guide is at the bottom of the smogon page, down in Participate, and barely anyone actually looks there.

Also, you might want a stickied post in this board that actually links to that webpage.
 

DougJustDoug

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#52
Fair enough. I agree the forum should have references to that stuff. And I apologize for my snarky response...

I updated the enCAPlopedia sticky to contain links to the website, and to the Newcomers Guide.
 
#53
Thanks, MrBlack, for your input. Most newcomers who sign up, and subsequently find CAP wasn't what they were expecting, tend to just drop it without leaving any feedback. So your comments, and the fact that you bothered doing some research are much appreciated.

CAP does have the right to uphold the integrity of the project by encouraging intelligent, well-informed members to post. There is nothing wrong with having high standards, and CAP's goals are made plain to see. However, I do agree that there's a certain elitist fog in the air; but that that can be attributed to the some people's underlying assumption that a competitive appreciation of Pokemon is somehow 'better' than a form of value that isn't competitive-centric (evident in the disdain that drips forth whenever words like "fanboy" are used).

That said, I don't think newcomers necessarily are our target audience anyway. Smogon is replete with competitively minded users who battle regularly on Shoddy, and I don't think I'd be wrong in saying that those are the people we actually want to attract. Does anyone know what the community at large thinks about the CAP project? I don't...but last I heard, (and this was a long time ago) we were viewed as a disorganized, fledgling fanboy project. Obviously this view is no longer warranted, but it seems we're still trying to prove ourselves 'legit' in our occasionally derisive approach to dealing with the less informed newcomers we don't wish to be associated with or defined by.

The last surge of community participation I remember (aside from every art poll) was the EVO project. Whether it was cancelled because of gorm, fanboyism, the mandates of our own creed or whatever, the public enthusiasm was there. I'm not saying we need to try again with EVO, but that if we make it a point for CAP to be something people can get excited about on a widescale again rather than emphasizing it as 'something that is good for your brain', we'd worry less about defending the competitive value of our project because we'd be too busy having fun creating competitive Pokemon with dozens more like-minded individuals.


edit: speaking of which...if there were to be a thread opened asking people what they thought of the CAP project (as a transparent attempt to gauge public opinion) which would be the appropriate forum? Something like that may be closed in Stark, where the majority of Shoddy's users frequent, and it may not garner enough relevant attention in Congregation. Heck, maybe even a Smog article encouraging people to write in their opinions would be cool!
 
#54
I agree with an Activity Calender. That's a brilliant idea. Also, I think that smogon server should also have an ad for CAP too, and the welcome PM should have a link to CAP, and maybe a paragraph about CAP. That way, we can get the newer players that do not really check out CAP. All I see here are just people that registered a long time ago here.

And everything that MR Black said.

And what cartoons said.

However, I noticed that this is also happening to stuff like Teamuber's TCP and UCP. They are also pretty much dead too.

However, I do agree that there's a certain elitist fog in the air; but that that can be attributed to the some people's underlying assumption that a competitive appreciation of Pokemon is somehow 'better' than a form of value that isn't competitive-centric (evident in the disdain that drips forth whenever words like "fanboy" are used).
I agree that the serious competitive nature does seem to turn newer players off, but we do have some parts of CAP that are fanboyish. (Art, Idea, Pokedex, Height, ect.) Those parts aren't dead serious, and they aren't that tough. It's not like it's conversion of standard to scientific notation or something. (Which is actually isn't that difficult)
 
#55
My only issue with CAP; is that if you're new, half the time you feel like you'll get shot down if you post, even though you've spent a long time lurking around the forum, and you're actually a strong battler; if your not well known around Smogon, you do tend to get shot down more often than not.

I would suggest attempting to make the CAP project more user friendly, agreeing with the welcome PM to include info on CAP, and possibly to put CAP on the front page of the Website, where information on Shoddy Battle is located, now that CAP has a website, if we make a link to CAP on the front page, people would be more inclined to join.
 
#56
My only issue with CAP; is that if you're new, half the time you feel like you'll get shot down if you post, even though you've spent a long time lurking around the forum, and you're actually a strong battler; if your not well known around Smogon, you do tend to get shot down more often than not.

I would suggest attempting to make the CAP project more user friendly, agreeing with the welcome PM to include info on CAP, and possibly to put CAP on the front page of the Website, where information on Shoddy Battle is located, now that CAP has a website, if we make a link to CAP on the front page, people would be more inclined to join.
If you're talking about posting a link on the Smogon main page, then its already there. Also, here's a direct link to the CAP Website.
 

VKCA

(Virtual Circus Kareoky Act)
#57
How about having a sub form for all the policy review threads? In between the projects more or less all the new topics start with this:
If you are not an experienced member of the CAP community, it is strongly recommended that you do not post in this thread.

This thread is intended to contain intelligent discussion and commentary by experienced members of the CAP project regarding CAP policy, process, and rules. As such, the content of this thread will be moderated more strictly than other threads on the forum. The posting rules for Policy Review threads are contained here.
And for a very good reason. Discouraging newcomers from these threads is probably for the best, but if someone decides to check out the cap forum in between projects then it could seem very exclusive, leading people to leave the cap forum and not come back. If it were put in a sub-forum within cap forum with a disclaimer "Experienced members only" or something similar it might be less discouraging. Of course it could increase the problem of random people thinking that they should post there fake dex's thinking "sub-forum for serious stuff, general forum for not serious stuff" leading to poorer quality of posts during the cap projects.

But at least it would be more organized.
 
#58
As a newcommer myself, I am more than happy to offer a suggetion that you may consider.

I think the main problem with the lack of new people posting (especially during the times in between CAP projects) is that they probably feel a little out of place when hitting that submit button. I most certianly do.

My solution would be to relive this anxiety by creating a sort of newbie's lounge for the CAP subforum in which these new people to introduce themselves might be helpful. I believe that such an addition would allow these new people to get to know the more veteran contributors to the project and vice-versa in between the projects.

Again, this is only something to think about, but I do think this would encourage people to come in during the downtime between CAP projects.
 
#59
While it's not much, some advertisement wouldn't hurt.


Code:
[noparse][url=http://www.smogon.com/cap/][IMG]http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/2904/capu.gif[/IMG][/url][/noparse]

Ok, this place is strange when it comes to posting image links. =/
 
#60
Tutoring would be marvelous. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but being tutored by a member of CAP could help introduce you to the community while you learn how to battle as well. And, we have a lot of great battlers here, so it wouldn't be difficult at all to introduce.
 

locopoke

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#61
Tutoring would be marvelous. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but being tutored by a member of CAP could help introduce you to the community while you learn how to battle as well. And, we have a lot of great battlers here, so it wouldn't be difficult at all to introduce.

The cap metagame honestly isn't much different from standard OU, i dont see why we would need a separate tutoring program. if somebody knows OU then they won't have a problem learning about the caps. (if you really wanna get tutored by a cap reg then request them in battling 101, all of them have the tutor badge anyway ~_~)
 
#62
I know that. But, if newbies are feeling that insecure about posting, then having them get tutored and introduced to CAP through a known member could surely help. No?
 
#63
I sort of agree with Pink. Signing up for the tutoring program is difficult (though the new system might make things easier) and frankly there's just no way a new member would know to request a CAP regular, or even who the "regulars" are. I don't think a small tutoring session would hurt at all.
 

Plus

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Professor of B101
#64
From my experience I've had a couple people ask me for CAP help, as well as other experienced CAP players. I don't think it's totally necessary to start a tutoring program, just get on the server and PM a friendly CAP reg for help. That's how a lot of us start out. It should be encouraged as well. Hell, even a smogon PM asking for CAP help is fine.
 

Plus

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Professor of B101
#66
Badged members are supposed to be friendly and helpful, though I can understand how it could be intimidating to some to ask a higher up for help. Perhaps a thread encouraging people to get help from higher ups on the CAP server/forum would be fine, but tutoring seems a bit too much. If a person asks for help, it doesn't even need to be about battling, simply help with a submission for a CAP project or some feedback on whatever.
 
#67
I'm just getting started in the CAP server, and I can say that the Power Hour and Mini-tournament ideas appeal the most to me as an outsider.

CAP trivia seems as if it would have to be catered to people that already know and understand the intricacies of the metagame, not new visitors.

Pink said:
If you're a newb, how comfortable would you be with asking a random badged member to tutor / help you?
I would not be comfortable with that.
 
#68
I like that idea, Plus. Instead of going for all out tutoring, we could do a sort of big brothers, big sisters thing. (lol) It could basically be a forum where people can request help with team making, battling help, or even how to approach the subject of CAP as a whole. No, this isn't ask a simple question, get a simple answer. It's more personal, where people can actually be given instructions on how to approach topics, and even can get to know a member of the community, so they have a "friend". I think this could help get a lot of new members interested, and not alienate them with what can seem like a newb unfriendly forum.
 
#69
I'm just getting started in the CAP server, and I can say that the Power Hour and Mini-tournament ideas appeal the most to me as an outsider.

CAP trivia seems as if it would have to be catered to people that already know and understand the intricacies of the metagame, not new visitors.



I would not be comfortable with that.
I'm also new to this CAP project, and have to agree with the above posts. The Power Hour definitely appeals to me, because a lot of people go on the server, click find match, wait a half hour and nothing comes. That discourages them/me a lot. Mini-tournaments are also a way to learn the ins and outs of the CAP metagame, because newbs like myself can watch others, who are experienced, battle.

Also, yeah, it's, well, embarrassing to ask for help from a higher-up on Smogon. I don't know why, but it just is - one of those unspoken things. I'm sure many newbs would agree with me here. Especially if you're new, you just feel uncomfortable asking for help - the tutor program is different, because people are volunteering to help you, and you know there's many more people in the same boat as you are.

So really, this is a great project, but like some are saying - not very newb-friendly. All I've been able to contribute so far is votes in polls, and this post, because I just feel out of place. There's so many regulars talking about this and that, and it feels weird to try and involve yourself.

Maybe it's a personal characteristic. Maybe it's the CAP project. Or it could be both.

edit: @ Pink:

I like that idea, Plus. Instead of going for all out tutoring, we could do a sort of big brothers, big sisters thing. (lol) It could basically be a forum where people can request help with team making, battling help, or even how to approach the subject of CAP as a whole. No, this isn't ask a simple question, get a simple answer. It's more personal, where people can actually be given instructions on how to approach topics, and even can get to know a member of the community, so they have a "friend". I think this could help get a lot of new members interested, and not alienate them with what can seem like a newb unfriendly forum.
This would really help me and other people too, I like this idea. It would definitely help me get more involved.
 
#70
I agree with Plus' idea with a thread encouraging asking for help. Honestly, I'm really shy with just straight up asking. Higher up people are really kind of intimidating, even though people shouldn't see them as that. I also like Pink's idea. For someone new to CAP, it's a really strange place. Many people don't know the processes and stuff (including me), and it makes less people contribute, thus reducing the popularity of CAP.
 
#71
My only issue with CAP; is that if you're new, half the time you feel like you'll get shot down if you post, even though you've spent a long time lurking around the forum, and you're actually a strong battler; if your not well known around Smogon, you do tend to get shot down more often than not.

I would suggest attempting to make the CAP project more user friendly, agreeing with the welcome PM to include info on CAP, and possibly to put CAP on the front page of the Website, where information on Shoddy Battle is located, now that CAP has a website, if we make a link to CAP on the front page, people would be more inclined to join.
as far as i've seen, people could care less about you being new, so long as you show understanding to the project and have good ideas.

i can think of two examples from the past, individuals who made an impact on a thread even thought they were new; yllnath and intentionally wrong (oddly enough, both these individuals went MIA, which is disappointing because i thought they could've become great members).

also, name recognition doesn't help as much as what you say. yes, we come to expect much and read much more into what certain people say, but that doesn't make us want to pick apart what you say. hell, i think each of the members have an idea of their pulled apart semi-regularly (ex. look through all the PR threads).
 
#72
It still helps to get acquainted with someone, and shown the ropes of how to post, what to post, and what not to post. Maybe some people can post well, and have contributed, even though they are a new member. But, the fact is, having someone show you the basics can help a lot. I got involved in CAP with help from Beej and Plus mostly. I'll admit it openly. And their help just made getting into the community easier.
 
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