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Dodrio (Update)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Thund91, Jun 22, 2010.

  1. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Ok. So the Life Orb set was approved and I'm now going to make this an update. The Choice set will mainly focus on Choice Band with a mention of the inferior Scarf in AC. The next set will be LO. I tested Flail and it's been, how should I put this nicely, absolutely terrible. Registeel, Rhyperior, Steelix, and Regirock all shit over it, and priority it so rampant in UU that it won't be doing much of anything. Also tested the Baton Pass set and it's outclassed by Lopunny and Ambipom who have better support options and only 1 weakness. These sets will get a mention in OC.


    GP Check (2/2)

    [​IMG](Snorlaxe) [​IMG] (Fate)
    [​IMG]
    http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/dodrio
    -------------------------------------------

    Status: analysis posted; awaiting grammar checks

    [OVERVIEW]

    <p>Dodrio's combination of high Attack and great Speed makes him a scary offensive threat. Not many Pokemon can stand up to one of the strongest Brave Birds in the game. Although Dodrio's movepool is rather shallow, he still has useful options in Taunt, Acupressure, Agility, and Baton Pass. Dodrio is often compared to Swellow because they play similarly, and many opt to use Swellow instead because of his higher Speed, access to U-turn, and Guts ability. One shouldn't discount Dodrio, however, as he hits harder right off the bat, has an easier time against certain Pokemon because of Taunt, and has a slightly better ability to Roost. Dodrio may not be the easiest Pokemon to use, but he can certainly carry his weight on any team, whether by breaking through common defensive cores or supporting the team with Baton Pass.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Return
    move 3: Pursuit / Payback
    move 4: Quick Attack / Toxic
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Choice Band Dodrio is one of the most fearsome physical sweepers in UU. With just a STAB Brave Bird or Return, he can 2HKO the entire tier, bar bulky Steel- or Rock-types. Powerful physical walls like Slowbro and Weezing don't even stand a chance against Dodrio's STAB attacks. Even Pokemon that resist Flying, like Rotom and Kabutops, are unable to switch in lest they be 2HKOed.</p>

    <p>Brave Bird and Return are Dodrio's STAB attacks, and are used to punch holes into teams. Common cores like Fire-Water-Grass or Weezing + Milotic are unable to handle Dodrio effectively. Pursuit is useful to catch Psychic- and Ghost-types on the switch, and works excellently on Mismagius that utilize Hidden Power Fighting; however, Payback can be used to hit Rotom and bulky Psychics on the switch without suffering recoil, and is Dodrio's strongest attack against Rhyperior and Regirock. The last slot gives Dodrio a useful priority move in Quick Attack. However, one can choose to run Toxic to cripple bulky Rock-type switch-ins and limit the amount of times they can counter Dodrio.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Dodrio's high Speed is a blessing in that it allows him to outspeed a majority of the tier and land the KO before being KOed himself. Dodrio should have a Jolly nature with 252 Speed EVs to ensure he outspeeds the base 95 Speed group and at worst ties with other maximum Speed base 100s. Although an Adamant nature provides even greater power, it's not recommended since Jolly already obtains the same amount of KOs. Dodrio's high Speed allows him to function as a decent revenge killer, while Early Bird allows Dodrio to act as a 'sleep absorber' if the need arises. Dodrio can run the exact same set with a Choice Scarf equipped to further increase his Speed, but other Pokemon like Primeape and Blaziken do this much better because of their greater coverage and lack of a Stealth Rock weakness.</p>

    <p>Because Dodrio has a weakness to Stealth Rock, using a Rapid Spinner is highly recommended. Hitmontop and Claydol are the best choices for this role because they also provide a handy resistance to Rock-type attacks. Hitmontop's access to Foresight and Claydol's access to Trick allow them to spin more efficiently. Rhyperior and Torterra are great offensive partners because of their ability to set up on Pokemon like Steelix, Regirock, and Registeel, while Dodrio eliminates problematic Pokemon like Milotic, Donphan, and Weezing. Since Dodrio is rather frail, a Pokemon that can take priority attacks comes in handy; Milotic and Slowbro are great options. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Utility Attacker
    move 1: Brave Bird
    move 2: Return / Quick Attack
    move 3: Roost
    move 4: Taunt / Toxic / Payback
    item: Sharp Beak / Life Orb
    ability: Early Bird
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set has nearly the same wallbreaking capabilities of the Choice Bander, but mixes in utility options like Taunt and Roost to support the team and help Dodrio stick around a bit longer.</p>

    <p>Brave Bird is Dodrio's main STAB attack and still obtains the 2HKOs on Milotic and Donphan, two common Pokemon that 'glue' many teams together. The second slot is for Dodrio's alternative STAB attack. Return has a good amount of power and can hit Pokemon that resist Flying hard, but Quick Attack allows Dodrio to hit faster Pokemon. Although it may seem odd to use Roost on a Pokemon as frail as Dodrio, he can use it on weaker attacks like Pursuit and on predicted Sucker Punches, giving him a bit more longevity. Taunt allows Dodrio to defeat walls that hope to stall him out, such as Slowbro, and prevents Pokemon like Regirock and Omastar from setting up entry hazards on him. Taunt also prevents Registeel and Uxie from throwing around status attacks, allowing your counters to switch in without being crippled. Toxic is an option to weaken pesky Rock-types like Rhyperior, while Payback can be used to eliminate Rotom without having to take a good amount of recoil; it is also Dodrio's strongest attack against Rock-types.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>With Sharp Beak and a Jolly nature, Dodrio has a very high chance to 2HKO Donphan and Milotic. Sharp Beak is the main option to prevent Dodrio from suffering more recoil than he has to, although Life Orb guarantees the 2HKOs on the aforementioned Pokemon and allows Dodrio to hit harder in general. With both Taunt and Roost, Dodrio makes an excellent stallbreaker because many stall teams don't have a Flying resist, and he can Roost off the damage from their weak attacks.</p>

    <p>Dodrio appreciates Rapid Spin support to help patch up his Stealth Rock weakness. Again, Hitmontop and Claydol are excellent options. Fire-types like Houndoom and Blaziken eliminate pesky Steel- and Rock-types while enjoying Dodrio's ability to take down Milotic. This particular Dodrio works well in a 'double Flying' strategy with either Moltres or Swellow. Moltres works great in particular because of its ability to eliminate Steel-types with a STAB Fire Blast and OHKO Rhyperior with Hidden Power Grass, while Dodrio is capable of removing Moltres's number one counter, Milotic, from the game.</p>

    [Team Options]

    <p>Stealth Rock support is highly recommended because it allows Dodrio to obtain KOs he otherwise couldn't. A lead like Uxie or Mesprit can set up Stealth Rock while also putting up dual screens. Claydol can also be used because it can provide Rapid Spin support. Speaking of Rapid Spin support, Hitmontop makes a fine choice because of his resistance to Rock and access to Foresight, he also scares off the Rock- and Steel-types that plague Dodrio.</p>

    <p>Offensive partners to Dodrio include Fire-types like Houndoom and Blaziken, who enjoy Dodrio's ability to eliminate Milotic while they return the favor by scorching Steel-type threats. Rhyperior and Torterra work excellently because of their ability to set up on Regirock and Registeel. Swellow and Moltres can form an effective offensive duo with Dodrio as they weaken or eliminate each other's counters. Dugtrio is capable of trapping a weakened Registeel, Regirock, or Steelix and eliminating them, paving the way for a Dodrio sweep.</p>

    <p>Good defensive partners to Dodrio include Milotic and support Leafeon. Milotic can defeat pesky Rock- and Steel-types one-on-one; Leafeon provides Wish support and can take Rock attacks easily with some EV investment, while scaring opposing Rock-types away with his STAB attack. A Cleric isn't required, but is recommended in case Dodrio becomes burned or paralyzed.</p>

    [Optional Changes]

    <p>Dodrio can Baton Pass Agility, but Ambipom and Lopunny generally do that much better. Acupressure is a bit more restricted and is an interesting option to Baton Pass, but Dodrio is better off with offense. Dodrio can also run Baton Pass on offensive sets to scout for the opponent's Dodrio counter, but it's illegal with Brave Bird and forces Dodrio to run the much weaker Drill Peck. Steel Wing can be used to hit Rock-types a bit harder than Payback, but is useless outside of that.</p>

    <p>Dodrio can run a Flail set that becomes incredibly powerful once set up, but his inability to significantly hurt Rock- or Steel-types makes it a difficult option to pull off. Such a set is also susceptible to priority users as well.</p>

    [Counters]

    <p>The Choice Band set is extremely difficult to counter without a Rock- or Steel-type. Offensive Pokemon that resist Brave Bird, like Kabutops or Rotom, will be outsped and 2HKOed, and therefore do not make reliable counters. Luckily, Stealth Rock and Brave Bird recoil will quickly wear Dodrio down, and strong priority attacks harm him significantly.</p>

    <p>The second set hits a bit weaker, so Slowbro and Weezing should be able to take 2 hits as long as Dodrio is using Sharp Beak. From here, they may either status Dodrio, try to stall him out, or flat out attack him. They both must be wary of Taunt, however, and of the fact that this particular Dodrio is more of a lure to help set up another dangerous teammate by weakening the counters.</p>

    <p>In general, using a Pokemon like Regirock, Rhyperior, or Steelix will make Dodrio seem much less scary. Dodrio is also outsped by several common Pokemon like Ambipom, Alakazam, and Swellow, who can all KO him. He also has trouble switching in because of his frailty, although he does have an immunity to both Ghost- and Ground-type attacks; if you're firing off powerful attacks, Dodrio won't have an opportunity to switch in(besides when a teammate is KOed).</p>
  2. shrang

    shrang Go to your room
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    This looks like a pretty good set, but I'm just wondering, does Dodrio have the bulk to pull off Taunt without getting killed?? Alternatively, IMO this set should be just be named "Taunt" or something like that because "Wallbreaker" is kind of misleading (I mean, it is not going to break Rock types or Steel types whatever it does).
  3. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    thund is a gimmick

    This set looks pretty neat though, I'll test it.
  4. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Well it takes a good amount of prediction to use Taunt on something so frail, I'm not gonna lie. I just found it useful for Pokemon that like throwing out status and think they can recover stall you or to make sure they wouldn't be able to recover so another Pokemon could finish it off and open a sweep for itself (like Arcanine enjoys it a lot when Milo and Slowbro are gone). Also, it's useful for when Omastar switches in and thinks it's getting free hazards etc. And then you can switch into your Pokemon that can defeat it. Stuff like that.

    I guess it would be possible to slash Baton Pass by Taunt to pull off a dry pass, could be especially useful with Dugtrio support.
  5. Anachronism

    Anachronism

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    Without Taunt you are using a weaker Swellow (in the sense that you can't abuse Toxic Orb and Facade and U-turn ).

    I WILL lol if you cite Early Bird and slightly better defenses as reasons for Dodrio's superiority in that position.
  6. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I seriously use Taunt maybe once in 50 moves, I'd prefer QA. The set itself is good otherwise though.
  7. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Yeah we talked as I stalked your matches. ;D So QA > Taunt? I'm inclined to mention Taunt in AC at least. :/
  8. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    All you'd need is a slash next to QA. Of course, the set should probably be renamed "Life Orb" or something more fitting.
  9. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Alrighty made the changes, although I think Dodrio deserves a better set name later because of how bad ass a Pokemon it is. ;)

    vLmao fixed it. xD
  10. Rayquaza2233

    Rayquaza2233

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    I think you mean Sharp Beak, not Sharp Break in the sentence that discusses why you should use Taunt against Slowbro.
  11. Heysup

    Heysup Monsters are dangerous and kings are dying like flies.
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    I'd just like to point out that you need to emphasize why this set isn't just a shitty Swellow. The reasons off the top of my head:

    1) immediate power (doesn't need a turn of attacking to activate its orb)
    2) Payback / Roost for Rotom (good luck beating this with Swellow)
    3) Dodrio has three heads vs Swellow's one head (don't actually say this)

    Emphasize points 1), 2), and others if i missed any.
  12. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Alrighty. Another advantage is that Dodrio isn't absolutely fucked over by Sucker Punch/Pursuit users (mainly Spiritomb) because it can just Roost than KO. I'll update the OP with these perks soon.
  13. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    I'll test this when I get the chance and approve/disapprove based on results. You're going to want to mention Rhyperior, Milotic, and Mismagius as partners. Rhyperior can easily switch into Registeel and Rock Polish or set up a substitute or hit things with CB-boosted attacks. Milotic can switch into most variants of Rhyperior and Omastar and beat them. This is important because those three are really the only things on stall that can safely switch in. Mismagius is a good partner because the weakened Registeel and general softening this set causes would very much aid her sweep.
  14. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Alrighty Flare. ;)

    Also if Rhyperior is a decent partner than why not mention Torterra as well? Can also set up on Rock-types, I'll test a bit more.
  15. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    All righty, I tested this. Positives: It is surprisingly powerful, and I liked the immediate power a lot. Helped punch a lot of holes in teams that rely on bulky waters to tank physical hits, and I can see it being absurdly scary if used in a Double Dragon strategy with Swellow (DEFINITELY mention this). Negatives: Dies WAY too fast with Life Orb, so maybe Sharp Beak is a better option, although Life Orb should still be on there. Return is completely redundant with Brave Bird. I basically just spammed Brave Bird and used Roost sometimes, I don't think I used Return once. So I think Return could be replaced with something else. I briefly experimented with Baton Pass, and it was pretty good; it works like a crappier version of U-Turn basically. I didn't use Quick Attack much either. So basically I'd say the most important moves are Brave Bird, Payback, and Roost, in that order. This should be reflected in the set; none of those should have slashes next to them. In the final slot, Baton Pass and Toxic are the most viable options. Toxic helps with Spiritomb, Rhyperior, Omastar, etc, Baton Pass is excellent for scouting, and Taunt is Taunt. I guess you could throw Quick Attack in there, but again, I never used it; only MissyD and Scyther are gonna be faster than you, MissyD is immune and Scyther has its own Quick Attack, so...yeah. Anyway, make those changes and I'll approve this.
  16. Thund91

    Thund91

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    I thought it was discussed that Baton Pass just made it a slower Swellow? I like using Return for revenging shit like Moltres, Blaziken etc, without having to take recoil for no reason. Maybe the last slash could be something like Taunt / Return?
  17. franky

    franky
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    The partners want Milotic over Slowbro for the sole reason of checking every single Rock- and Steel-type that might pop up. Slowbro is incapable of checking Rhyperior at times as Megahorn will destroy it for the 2HKO. Milotic can consistently check Rhyperior thanks to its high Speed and reliable Recovery.

    Substitute Rhyperior or even Choice Band works wonders as an offensive partner. From testing experience, the things you lure easily allows Rhyperior to turn into a vicious sweeper once Milotic is removed. Additionally, Rhyperior has the added benefit of switching into Registeel's Thunder Wave who will attempt to slow you down at all costs. My 2 cents.
  18. Legacy Raider

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    If Baton Pass is mentioned at all it needs to be noted that it is illegal alongside Brave Bird. This is what turns me off it since Brave Bird is really what makes Dodrio a threat, and it just doesn't have that offensive presence when having to rely on crappy Drill Peck. Also, Thund you need to remember to add in an ability tag with Early Bird, since it also has the option of Run Away as an ability and this needs to be stated. Early Bird is actually pretty cool btw, I've had several situations when I've needed something desperately to take Venusaur's Sleep Powder, and waking up immediately or after 1 turn 60% of the time can be very helpful.

    It's a neat set, especially against Stall when using Taunt :).
  19. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Everything noted, I'll try and update the OP tomorrow. And Baton Pass shouldn't get a mention since Brave Bird is what makes the set with its high damage output.

    LR:Yes I love using this against stall. (: Since they don't usually carry a Rock or Steel-type it's a free rampage. ='D
  20. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    Yeah, like FlareBlitz, all I did was spam Brave Bird with the occasional Roost. I think I probably could've just used two attacks; Payback and Quick Attack were pretty useless. I'll try Taunt and maybe some other options (Pursuit maybe?) and see how that works. It's been working pretty decently so far, though.

    Going to go ahead and approve this though (make sure Brave Bird is the first attack)

    [​IMG]
  21. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Slash Toxic over anything besides Brave Bird and Roost. Toxic helps way more against things that hard-counter Dodrio (except aggron but yeah) and I don't really use anything else a whole lot.

    Anyway:

    [​IMG]
  22. Thund91

    Thund91

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    So you guys aren't really digging Return? I liked it in that you can kill off Moltres after SR and weakened things like Venu without having to resort to recoil. So the final set should look something like

    Brave Bird
    Taunt
    Toxic
    Payback / Return / Quick Attack?

    Probably gonna have to change the set name too. And since this is approved would it be alright to turn it into an analysis? Dodrio's is horribly outdated.
  23. FlareBlitz

    FlareBlitz This was never a story that would have a happy end
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    Well, the analysis will have to go through QC too if it includes sets other than this one. But if you're just planning on re-writing the Overview and Team/Counters section and whatever (like I did in my Jynx analysis) then you can just do that without going through QC again.
  24. Thund91

    Thund91

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    Yeah I know, I plan on having the sets go through QC (most likely condensing the Choice sets, mainly reflecting CB with a small mention of Scarf because it's inferior), and testing Baton Pass as well before I put up the skeleton.
  25. Eo Ut Mortus

    Eo Ut Mortus Elodin Smells
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    I find Return and Quick Attack more useful than Payback. It only hits Rotom, who takes a lot from Brave Bird as it is. You can't really beat defensive Rotom, but those are pretty rare now anyway. I would slash Payback last in the last slot.

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