Doubles UU

[Checkmater]

[03:05] +talkingtree: why does your crawdaunt have hyper cutter
[03:06] Checkmater: uhh
[03:06] Checkmater: that's supposed
[03:06] Checkmater: to be
[03:06] Checkmater: adaptability
[03:06] +talkingtree: smh

when mamatree gives you a scolding

personally idt tangela is that worrying, it's a worse amoonguss that seems pretty easy to deal with... haven't tested against it so idk
everything deals with it pretty fine, esp with Aboma OHKO and everything murdering it outside of TR, esp since no fighting resist --> hariyama bonks it

I laddered on duu a lot (topped the ladder on latias is waifu) ages ago but I found flame orb to be better than toxic due to the combination of protect and fake out producing "artificial turns" where you're not hitting anything, thus making burn orb better for overall bulk. Past the third turn toxic does more overall damage from what I remember. While in singles toxic orb is probably better because switches + you're hitting something three times, that's not rly the case with doubles.

 

[kamikaze]

And for the first time in it's history, there is now a bl in doubles (dbl?)

Doubles BL is not actually official yet. Think of clius's DUU tour as DUU with a custom ruleset. We will deal with DUU's actual tiering later

EDIT: I edited out the misinformation in xzern's post, so please reread that. These 5 are just a council for the viability rankings, to mirror how the DOU Viability Rankings thread is ran. There is no official DUU council and Zard X and Volcarona are not officially banned from DUU as of now.

 

[CMG]

Where are the viability rankings? Please tell me the ones in page 1 are not "official". Uh, and also hello everyone, I've just made my account (I'm CMGmaster on showdown) lol :]

 

[xzern]

Where are the viability rankings? Please tell me the ones in page 1 are not "official". Uh, and also hello everyone, I've just made my account (I'm CMGmaster on showdown) lol :]

The vr is on post #3 on the first page

 

[Melons-N-Soda]

I want to know, is Tangela really one of the best Pokemon in the meta or is that a joke on VR? If so, whats the set that makes it particularly good?

 

[Platinum God n1n1]

It's duu's version of Amoongus. It's bulky af, has regenerator, sleep powder, rage powder and doesn't have a bunch of weaknesses. It just one of the best support mons you can have

 

[CMG]

I revised the vr again, and I think we should make some changes.

• Move Manaphy up to Tier 1. Reasons: let's look at tier 1.5 description

  Pokemon that are generally strong, but can fail to impress in some matchups or don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1.

  . The only pokemon which in tier 1 which gives troubles to Manaphy is Tangela, although it can be OHKOed if Manaphy is at +3. +3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 550-648 (164.6 - 194%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Now, look at tier 1 description

  Pokemon that have a good matchup vs a large portion of the metagame, are either quite powerful or offer great team support, or can fit on almost any team]

  In my opinion, this describes Manaphy perfectly. Not much else to say.
• Either move Serperior up to Tier 1.5 OR move Deoxys-attack down to Tier 2. They're both pretty much the same: frail mons which can do tons of damage in the right situation. Honestly, I think Tier 2 describes both better than Tier 1.5.
• The last thing I wanted to say is that lately, I've been playing DUU a lot. I reached top 2 in the ladder and I managed to win important players of the tier. I'm saying this because I don't want you to think these opinions come from a noob (I'm not trying to say you treat me like a noob)

 

[n10siT]

I revised the vr again, and I think we should make some changes.

• Move Manaphy up to Tier 1. Reasons: let's look at tier 1.5 description . The only pokemon which in tier 1 which gives troubles to Manaphy is Tangela, although it can be OHKOed if Manaphy is at +3. +3 252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Tangela: 550-648 (164.6 - 194%) -- guaranteed OHKO. Now, look at tier 1 description In my opinion, this describes Manaphy perfectly. Not much else to say.
• Either move Serperior up to Tier 1.5 OR move Deoxys-attack down to Tier 2. They're both pretty much the same: frail mons which can do tons of damage in the right situation. Honestly, I think Tier 2 describes both better than Tier 1.5.
• The last thing I wanted to say is that lately, I've been playing DUU a lot. I reached top 2 in the ladder and I managed to win important players of the tier. I'm saying this because I don't want you to think these opinions come from a noob (I'm not trying to say you treat me like a noob)

• blame yoda
• tier 1.5 description: Pokemon that are generally strong, but can fail to impress in some matchups or don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1. vs tier 2 description: Pokemon which, while good, either only fit on specific team archetypes, fill solely supportive roles, or have some glaring weakness. both serperior and deo a fit the 1.5 description exactly. they do not only fit on some archetypes and are not full support. they do have their weaknesses, but they are better than the pokemon in tier 2 at doing their specific jobs.
• cool

 

[CMG]

• blame yoda
• tier 1.5 description: Pokemon that are generally strong, but can fail to impress in some matchups or don't have great matchups vs a lot of Tier 1. vs tier 2 description: Pokemon which, while good, either only fit on specific team archetypes, fill solely supportive roles, or have some glaring weakness. both serperior and deo a fit the 1.5 description exactly. they do not only fit on some archetypes and are not full support. they do have their weaknesses, but they are better than the pokemon in tier 2 at doing their specific jobs.
• cool

Imo, both descriptions are quite suitable. Either way, Serperior and Deoxys should be in the same tier, and I think we all agree about this

 

[talkingtree]

Deo-A can hit literally anything in the tier extremely hard. Serperior, however, needs to get at least one Leaf Storm off before it can be threatening to anything not weak to Grass-type attacks. Also, Deoxys-A's speed tier is way better, as Serperior is left outsped by many offensive threats in the tier.

 

[CMG]

Deo-A can hit literally anything in the tier extremely hard. Serperior, however, needs to get at least one Leaf Storm off before it can be threatening to anything not weak to Grass-type attacks. Also, Deoxys-A's speed tier is way better, as Serperior is left outsped by many offensive threats in the tier.

I agree but the thing is that they both need heavy support if they really wanna do big damage. Also, with a sash, it's quite easy for Serp to fire off a Leaf Storm. And what do you think about moving up Manaphy?

 

[talkingtree]

Serperior needs Life Orb to be able to do reliable damage and can theoretically switch in on resisted hits, whereas Deo-A cannot at all. Really, they're pretty different and can't be compared, as they offer very different things to teams.

Also, Manaphy has already been moved

 

[CMG]

Lately, I've been using a sub lefties set on Serp. It may sound bad on paper but it gave me good results on practice. Give it a try

 

[clius]

here is a cool sample team, we need more sample teams from good players for the upcoming tournament so lets get em out haha:
mega-pidgeot tailroom if that's what you want to call it.

Mega Pidgeot Tailroom

non-mega pidgeot (Pidgeot-Mega) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Hurricane
- Substitute
- Protect

bring dis every week (Blastoise) @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Roar
- Icy Wind
- Scald
- Follow Me

woompf (Entei) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head
- Stone Edge

cute lil bugger (Shaymin) @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power
- Tailwind
- Protect

Forgotten Wishes (Diancie) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Atk / 56 SpA
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Diamond Storm
- Moonblast
- Protect

houh (Hariyama) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 124 Def / 128 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Heavy Slam

mega bird is a huge threat, dealing massive damage with stab hurricanes, nevermiss heat wave is also a relief. substitute is a great move to use when you predict a switch.

this blastoise set is amazing. roar out trick roomers, icy wind tailwinders, scald to burn and ohko 4x weak things, and a bulky af follow me. goggles for tangela is great too.

Choice Band Entei needs no explanation.

Shaymin is here to hit all the bulky waters in the meta, as well as set up tailwind. earth power hits the fires and steels seed flare doesn't, run air slash if you want more things to deal with tangela.

Diancie serves as a solid TR check and check for all those fire types.

this hariyama should be faster than other hariyamas for fake out, ohkoes mega diancie. assvest and guts is too good cause you keep your opp guessing. run rock slide over knock off if you feel volc weak.

 

[CMG]

I would post some teams but that would be like putting myself in a disadvantageous position for the tournament. I'll be pleased to post one or two teams after the tour though

 

[Yoda2798]

Posting an edited version of a team I used in DPL Week 2 for samples.

Importable

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Rock Slide
- Aerial Ace
- Crunch
- Protect

Volcarona @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heat Wave
- Giga Drain
- Quiver Dance
- Protect

Tangela @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Rage Powder
- Sleep Powder
- Protect

Hariyama @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Wide Guard

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Tailwind

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 124 Atk / 216 SpA / 168 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

The team was mainly built around Volc + Tang, which I thought would work well as a combination (which proved true).

Mega Aero helps deal with Fire-types and appreciates Volcarona removing Steel-types in return. Crunch was for mainly Latias (which can be a problem without Gene and annoys volc + tang) but helps against Jelli as well I guess. Sky Drop is an option over Ace to help Volc setup, but drawbacks such as failing against Virizion (which with Stone Edge can be annoying) made me use Aerial Ace.

Quiver Dance Volcarona is the main win condition of the team, destroying everybody's life at +1 and still decent without a boost. The team is still good outside of it, but be wary for random Rock Slides on stuff.

Tang redirects hits for days and has nice typing synergy with Volc. Grass STAB and sleep helps against stuff like Rock-types and Rock Slide Hariyama which could get past redirection, and helps deal with TR teams. Spread always lives two Mega Aero Aerial Aces, dump in Sp Def (spread by thetalkingtree).

Hariyama provides FO and WG support to help Volc setup and is a strong mon in itself. I have Guts Toxic Orb for more power but if you want to go for a more defensive item Sitrus and Coba Berry are good. I guess you could hit some benchmark for under TW but it's probably not worth the loss of bulk.

Salamence provides Intimidate for Volc while helping against Dragons. Mence's great coverage destroys nearly anything slower than it and under Tailwind the opponent is put under a lot of offensive pressure. TW is also nice for dealing with the opponent's own speed control.

Scarf Gene is a nice Dragon and Rock check, adds some speed and is great in general. Spread outspeeds Jolly Exca and neutral base 100s before factoring Scarf, meaning you outspeed Scarf Exca, +1 Modest Volc and neutral speed natured Scarf Victini. Sp Atk OHKOes max HP Rhyperior with +1 Ice Beam, dump in Attack (spread also by thetalkingtree).

 

[Derivatives]

where are fake tears+sun checks? it seems like it just tears holes in everything w/o rain dance/aero/really heavily prepped tr and even those seem to not be difficult to prepare for at all. something like liepard/ninetales/eggs/aero sounds terrifying af. even like kingdra/liepard/tangela sounds stupidly annoying oml. pls help

 

[clius]

Well anything with fake out paired with some form of speed control beats that, and taunt stops it in its tracks as well

 

[clius]

UR -> 2
or 2.5

Nomming magnezone for tier 2.5, and if you don't agree at least tier 3. It's dual stabs and great abilities make it a great trick room attacker, and it's straight up walls a good portion of tier 1 and 1.5. with WP sturdy it can even take out things that would've checked it, such as volcarona or victini.
Beats diancie, manaphy, mega abomasnow, mega aero, mega stoise, stoise, crobat, jellicent, etc etc. walls a bunch of them too.
edit: change my mind i think it's tier 2

1.5 -> 1

Mega Blastoise for Tier 1. It's amazing movepool and versatility on teams (full TR, semi-room, offense, HO) and generally good matchups make this thing an absolute monster. it's basically like a manaphy that doesn't need to set up to deal crazy amounts of damage, especially with water spout. you're never sure what coverage options it has which also makes it incredibly dangerous since it has so many pseudo-stabs to be aware of. wide guard doesn't beat it either since many variants run hydro as well.
Cobalion UR -> 4
Virizion 4 -> 3

haven't played around with them that much, but nomming Cobalion to tier 4 and Virizion to tier 3.
ttree says that " it's better than all the stuff in tier 4", which is pretty agreeable.
Cobalion is major underrated but needs to be explored more before I nom it higher.

edit: oh and roserade isn't half bad, ur welcome nido. nomming to tier 2.5 as well

 

[CorruptedOmega]

UR --> 3
Three words: Chlorophyll Sleep Powder. It also has solid all around stats and kind of fills the gap between the harder hitting Exeggutor and it's bulkier pre-evolution Tangela. It has a tiny niche, but it's about on par with the likes of Victreebel and Exeggutor.

1.5 --> 2
Crobat is far better defined by the Tier 2 definition than the tier 1.5 definition imo, namely since it solely fills supportive roles. It has poor STAB options, since Brave Bird breaks its Focus Sash and its other STABs are weak.

2.5 --> 2
Scarf Krookodile is quite splashable with access to two great abilities and good coverage, allowing it to effectively check Fire- and Steel-types while also scaring off Trick Room setters. I don't really see why this thing is 2.5, just bump it.



On an unrelated note, god damn sun is good. I used it in two recent room tours and placed 1st in one and top four in the other just by clicking buttons really. If you throw together a Chlorophyll Sleep Powder user, a Fake Out user, and a strong Fire-type, you already have a pretty great sun team. The council may need to vote on it after the tournament.

 

[Nido-Rus]

Manaphy to Tier 2/Tier 1.5
I've always found Manaphy to be underwhelming while using/facing it. Before a boost it's far too weak, and even after a boost it's limited to single target STAB attacks which fail to OHKO any neutral target without paper-thin defenses.

Roserade to Tier 1.5/Tier 2
Don't think I see it on the viability rankings, but this is seriously amazing against TR/bulky offense. It can OHKO/sleep powder all setters bar goggs victini, it OHKOS all three commonly seen redirectors (tang, stoise, clefable), along with the two most common megas (MAboma, MStoise). It's pretty darn frail and its speed tier is subpar when facing HO, meaning it does sometimes need fake out/redirection support.

Arcanine for Tier 2.5/3
Not sure why this is in 1.5. Even in duu it's subpar at best. Wisp/intimidate/snarl support from arcanine just isn't good considering how every team is some sort of really heavy/hyper offense. Very few opportunities to chip at opponents and middling offensive stats.

Mew for Tier 2/Tier 2.5
Haven't really seen this do much. Despite its amazing movepool, subpar typing/stats really limit what all it can do. Almost all of the time, there's gonna be something better at doing whatever mew can fit in 4 moves. Also has no azu replacement for it to transform into in DUU.

 

[Yoda2798]

Thoughts on other noms: Mag should be somewhere I guess, would be thinking probably 3 at this point. Mega Stoise to 1 is something I would need to think about a bit more but I could see why (coverage, bulk, power) HOWEVER there are things like a middling speed and weakness to Aboma under TR to consider. Virizion to 3 is fine, would need to see Coballion used first before putting on.

Tangrowth is way worse than Eggs/Bell, (which both get sleep and chloro btw) since they have additional STAB and higher speeds, also Eggs has higher Sp ATk. I don't think the better bulk is too useful as a sun sweeper, and outside of that it's a worse Tangela full stop. Crobat might not be your main attacker but it's no pushover. Flying has great coverage, in tier 1 against Tang and Yama (something bat beats very well) in particular. Inner Focus and access to stuff like Taunt/Whirlwind and TW are great support for a team (taunt is really nice on HO for TR, even if diancie is still a problem). The fact that you mention Sash kinda makes me question the nom, since as you said BB is the main STAB, so I really dunno why you would use sash (I've used sitrus and sky plate, but goggles and resist berries could work as well). Krook to 2 is more reasonable imo, it does have merits and I agree scarf is probably the best set. Leaning to agree but would like to see other people's thoughts first.

MANA DOWN. I agree with this loads, I was the one wanting it moved down from 1.5 when we did the rankings (but then everyone disagreed and moved it up :[) - note that I think 1.5 is fine now. Mana hail is still a bit overrated, Mana being walled by FM Stoise (and having trouble with the less common Clefable), needing to setup to do any damage, and not having an great speed tier are all bad for it. Especially with Volc around still (BAN PLEASE) which is far better at setting up and sweeping in that aspect. Roserade is surprsingly good, being a great Tang counter and TR check with sleep are the main selling points. Speed and bulk are a little lacking but previous points and strong STABs make it 2 worthy imo. Arcanine down is something else I had been wanting, a bit passive but some merits. I really don't think intimidate is massively important, and wisp even less. Mew down I agree with as well, lots of other good stuff have FO, you're mainly using this for TW/TR (something you can fit on other stuff) with it or transform (something which isn't the greatest without as many good setup mons). It lacks offensive presence before transforming and there are just better support mons.

Own Nom - Crawdaunt to 1.5: Destroys anything slower/that switches in, and works really well under TW/TR. Ajet is nice for faster stuff, notably Scarf Victini and Genesect (mainly for picking off weakened ones). Can't really take a hit other than FO/scald but if it takes a hit then you're either sacking it or playing it wrong. Nido likes sash for taking one hit and also hitting faster stuff that think they can KO but I like LO for power (mainly on jet). Also Crawdaunt absolutely DESTROYS a lot of TR teams, especially since it eats all the setters for breakfast (a la Bish in DOU). Also jet is nice for volc if it doesn't have redirection.

 

[CMG]

Some nominations:

• Move Krookodile to Tier 2, as Omega said before. It's way better than the stuff in 2.5
• Move Ninetales to Tier 2. As Tier 2 descriptions says, "it's good but it only fits in specific team archetypes, fill solely supportive roles, and has some glaring weakness. I would understand if you don't want to move it up tho.
• Kyurem to Tier 2. Its scarf set is pretty neat, it can both use glaciate for speed control and hit super hard with draco meteor, ice beam, blizzard, earth power, flash cannon, focus blast, psychic, etc. Life orb is also really cool. It's just as good (or even better) than stuff in Tier 2
• Mega Blast to Tier 1. Amazing. It can work in TR, TW, HO... Super powerful spread move, insane coverage...
• Keep Manaphy in Tier 1. I don't really understand why people want to move it down, it can boost and KO pretty much non resisted, very good wrecking tier 1 mons (except for Tangela). It can also work in TW, TR, HO. Really bulky and amazing coverage
• Move Sableye to Tier 2. Very underrated imo. Great support with prankster + quash, fake out, will o wisp, pain split, taunt, feint... Just lots of options

 

[CorruptedOmega]

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Flash Cannon
- U-turn
- Ice Beam / Explosion
- Flamethrower

This is a fun Genesect set I've been using on my Sun team. It let's me reliably win the Genesect mirror and it also OHKOs Tangela after after a Sun or Download boost. Genesect is great on Sun since it beats Aerodactyl, Diancie, Latias, and Salamence, all of which can give it some considerable trouble. Try it out, or don't, idc.

 

[Nido-Rus]

If you're going max SpAtk, I feel like you might as well run flash cannon over iron head. Missing the KO on diancie if it gets any boosts= not fun.

Also Nominating Clefable to 2
Great redirector, has an amazing defensive typing such that the only time it's getting hit SE is from genesect iron head or hariyama heavy slam, neither of which can ohko. Moonblast is a good STAB and can 2hko stuff like mence/yama/darkrai, and unaware is a pretty nice ability that allows it to ignore boosts on genesect/cm sweepers like mega latias or mega slowbro. Also has a cool support movepool with helping hand, encore, thunder wave, stealth rock, etc.
Will go with 2 for now but soon I'll get it to 1.5...........