DP Groudon

[Colonel M]

Analysis: http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/groudon

I've seen this used time and time again on the Smogon server and was shocked to not see it in the analysis. I used Stathakis's Post for an outline of the set as I found it to be more effective than the simple 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe etc.

[SET]
name: Rock Polish
move 1: Rock Polish
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Dragon Claw / Fire Punch
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
EVs: 192 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def / 56 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Groudon's modest Speed and massive Attack stats make Rock Polish a possibility on him. This set is best used as a late-game sweeper as you will still need residual damage on some of the more bulky Pokemon that are neutral against his attacks. The Speed boost gives 460 Speed, enough to outspeed Scarfed Kyogre with a Timid nature. After using Rock Polish, you have many options to tear the field with. STAB Earthquake is mandatory and creates massive destruction on Dialga, Metagross, and anything that dares to switch-in whilst not resisting Ground. Stone Edge complements Earthquake for round-about coverage as well as devastating Lugia, Rayquaza, and most Flying foes. Stealth Rock support is also appreciated to help 2HKO most Lugia provided that Reflect isn't set up.</p>

<p>Dragon Claw gives more coverage as well as slamming Lati@s and Giratina into the ground. Despite Fire Punch not being the greatest option for Groudon it offers more coverage toward Bronzong, who resists Stone Edge and Earthquake, as well as putting pressure on Skarmory. Having a pseudo-STAB thanks to Drought's sunlight is also helpful but means you must be more aware of Kyogre and the rain, which otherwise cuts Fire Punch's power in half.</p>

<p>The HP EVs allow the maximum use of Life Orb as well as giving enough defenses on both sides to take hits if needed.</p>

 

[twash]

I swear this used to be on there? Wierd.

"Groudon's modest Speed and massive Attack stats make Rock Polish a possibility on Groudon."

"The Speed boost gives 460 Speed"
Take out roughly.

"and anything that dares to switch-in whilst not resisting Ground"
Probably because of double "that", makes it a bit awkward.

"round-about" maybe just to good (or use something like good, but better)? Lol

Other than that good, bar last paragraph, where Defense should be capitalized.

Nice job! :)

 

[cim]

How wasn't this there? This seems like a basic, elementary, obvious, and effective set for the slow, somewhat physically bulky Groudon.

Does Lugia get 2HKOed by Stone Edge and only 3HKOd by Shadow Claw? If not then EQ / Dragon Claw / Shadow Claw would make more sense as Lugia can stall Stone Edge out of PP even more easily here, plus Dragon Claw hits the Lati twins harder.

Wait, how do you get 460 Speed with less EVs than what you need for 450 Speed? Might want to fix that.

 

[Colonel M]

Added suggestions. I meant "defenses" and accidentaly didn't put it in. Threw it on now.

EDIT: Fixed the EVs suggestion I made. It appears that his given EV spread already outspeeds Timid Kyogres.

Calcs with Stone Edge:

416 HP / 339 Def Bold Lugia
240 - 284 Damage

A 2HKO. With Stealth Rock it garutees it. After Reflect it does 122 - 144 Damage.

 

[Train Man]

It should be mentioned that Groudon won't be strong enough to OHKO alot of things without residual damage. (Stuff like Mewtwo, Kyogre and Palkia). As such it's more of a late-game sweeper and relies on prior damage to work to it's best.

And yeah, I thought this was on the Analysis a long time ago...

 

[Colonel M]

Added the tidbits about being a late-game sweeper and about residual damage / etc.

If there really are no complaints (because I think we all reach an agreement on this being a set) I can add this later tommorrow. The deadline for any suggestions and such will be 8:00 PM GMT -4 on Monday.

 

[jumpluff]

Three small things:

The Speed boost gives 460 Speed, enough to outspeed Scarfed Kyogre with a Timid nature. After using Rock Polish, you have many options to tear the field with. STAB Earthquake is mandatory and creates massive destruction on Dialga, Metagross, and anything that dares to switch-in whilst not resisting Ground. Stone Edge complements Earthquake for round-about coverage as well as devastating Lugia, Rayquaza, and most Flying-foes. Stealth Rock support is also appreciated to help 2HKO most Lugia provided that Reflect isn't set up.</p>

<p>Dragon Claw gives more coverage as well as slamming Lati@s and Giratina into the ground. Despite Fire Punch not being the greatest option for Groudon it offers more coverage toward Bronzong, who resists Stone Edge and Earthquake, as well as putting pressure on Skarmory. Having a pseudo-STAB thanks to Drought's sunlight is also helpful but means you must be more aware of Kyogre and the rain, which otherwise cuts Fire Punch's power in half.</p>

<p>The HP EVs allow the maximum use of Life Orb as well as giving enough defenses on both sides to take hits if needed.</p>

Why is Flying-foes hyphenated? I understand that Flying-types is hyphenated, but I fail to see a good reason to hyphenate Flying-foes x_x

 

[Colonel M]

Ah, perhaps while I was typing I was about to say Flying-types and then changed it to flying foes. No problem, I'll take the hyphen out and add those small changes. Good job pointing those out though.

 

[Colonel M]

Added. But keep this on here for now as I have another set to propose. Unless you'd like me to start it in a new topic expect it in a little bit. If you'd like me to start a new topic then simply throw it into the Peer Edit Archive and I'll post it later.

 

[Fabbles]

I don't know if I should still post (delete if I should not), but encase I can, then I have a few small changes to make. Firstly, the speed is simply too slow. With the abundance of Scarf Palkia, Scarf Garchomp, and Deoxys-S, Groudon needs more speed in order to not be revenged. I would go for 250 minimally, enough to outrun +Speed Scarf Chomp, or 253, enough speed to outrun Deoxys-S after a Polish.

Lastly, a small change that I would make is completely remove Skarmory from the counters list. If we want to convey what Groudon will be commonly countered with, Skarmory just doesn't cut it. Out of the 1000s of Uber battles I have played and watched, there has been a single Skarmory. Bronzong, although seen more than Skarmory, does not get as much use to use Fire Punch over Dragon Claw. I would just remove a lot of what you said about Fire Punch and talk about Dragon Claws usefulness.

 

[cim]

Can Deoxys-S OHKO Groudon though? I didn't think so, but I'm not sure.

Fire Punch is still at least worth a mention, because otherwise Bronzing does ruin your sweep. Even if he's uncommon, the option is worth discussing.

 

[jrrrrrrr]

Just posting to say that I edited the thread title because there are two Groudon edits by Colonel M on the front page and I think that merging the threads would be confusing for discussion.

 

[Fabbles]

To Chris, Deoxys-S can stop your sweep with a Reflect and force you to switch, so out speeding it helps the sweep.

I never said Fire Punch wasn't worth a mention, but when the Lati twins, Rayquaza, and Palkia are much more common, Dragon Claw should be much more discussed in the analysis than Fire Punch, which is really a gimmick.

 

[Colonel M]

I've listed Dragon Claw as the main option anyways.

Also, can someone move this to the Peer Edit Archive thread? I would but I don't think that I can... Sorry for the inconvenience.