DP Research Thread #4 ("Newer still")

[Tracker]

Shell Bell: What doesn't activate it? I know Doom Desire, Future Sight, and any other end-of-turn damage does not, but other than that...

Just tested in the Battle Tower. Shell bell is not affected by Pain Split.

My Gengar Hit Dusknoir with Psychic, did around 80%
Then Dusknoir Pain Spilts an opposing Squirtle, healing itself, but Shell Bell didn't kick in.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I believe Imprison only seals moves that you know at the time your opponent tries to pick an attack/after you Imprison. I found this out while I was trying to build another team for the Qualifiers in which I use Bronzong and Smeargle, Bronzong Blocks one opponent and Smeargle Imprisons, next turn Smeargle Transforms into the Blocked opponent and completely seals them. I tested this having Smeargle Imprison, then Transform into a Buizel on my brother's game. On my brother's game it had said Buizel has no more moves and Buizel Struggled on that turn.
Though I wish to know if Imprison is Baton Passable...

Wait, wait, wait. You've confused me here. At first you seem to be saying that only the moves you know at the time of using Imprison are sealed, but your test seems to indicate that after you Transform, all the opponent's moves are sealed. Could you explain it one more time?

 

[Chirnobyl]

ah, no no no rofl sorry I confused you...

believe Imprison only seals moves that you know at the time your opponent tries to pick an attack

I said at the time when the opponent picks an attack, not when you use Imprison, so like if you just learned Protect on the turn, next turn since you now know Protect, your opponent cannot select that move.

 

[Tracker]

Download If a Pokemon with equal attacking stats switches into a Pokemon with equal defending stats, what happens?

I just tested this with a hacked Abomasnow that has download and a Cresselia with equal defenses. My results were inconclusive.

First Turn:
Cresselia uses Thunder Wave on Wild Ditto, fails because of Limber.
Ditto Transforms into Cresselia.

Turn 2:
Abomasnow comes in on Ditto. Download raises Special Attack. I tried it around 10 times and Sp.A kept getting boosted.

However, if I let Ditto use Calm Mind, Abomasnow`s Attack would go up.

 

[Chirnobyl]

Check the attack stats of Cresselia, that could be the next step in determining if both Defenses were equal..

 

[Tracker]

My Cress has Higher SpA, and Abomasnow has higher SpD, so those may cause something. What if I just had bad luck or Download requires stat stages as the next step.

Edit: I have another question.

Can the Fury Cutter boots be baton passed. If Scyther use fury cutter once, and then Baton Passed to Absol who used Fury Cutter, would the power stay at 20 or revert to 10.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

I said at the time when the opponent picks an attack, not when you use Imprison, so like if you just learned Protect on the turn, next turn since you now know Protect, your opponent cannot select that move.

Aha! Thank you. That was exactly the way I'd hoped it would work. I'd considered using Imprison with Mimic, but Imprison with Transform is a step up. Insidious! I like it. With every generation, Smeargle becomes more and more broken...

 

[Chirnobyl]

Aha! Thank you. That was exactly the way I'd hoped it would work. I'd considered using Imprison with Mimic, but Imprison with Transform is a step up. Insidious! I like it. With every generation, Smeargle becomes more and more broken...

haha I know right, I was thinking with Mimic, but then I though... why not Transform! that would completely shut down one opponent and force the game into 2v1 for atleast 4 turns (the turns it takes for your opponent to Struggle themselves to death)... I just still need to know if it's Baton Passable, which would make Ditto a bit more useable..., though the only way to test this would be with Smeargle since Smeargle is the only one who gets Baton Pass + Imprison... anyone want to test? or atleast find if you continue to Imprison moves known prior to Transform?

Edit:Oh right, on another note, Imprison seems to work 100% of the time if there are no foes out, I found this out during the Qualifiers... where I got so surprised after my Gengar cleared the field with Explosion and my Dusknoir's Imprison worked, that I turned to the staff that was leaning on his elbow watching my battle and said, "wha? that actually happens," after which I recollected myself and put back on a poker face >.>

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

Edit:Oh right, on another note, Imprison seems to work 100% of the time if there are no foes out, I found this out during the Qualifiers... where I got so surprised after my Gengar cleared the field with Explosion and my Dusknoir's Imprison worked, that I turned to the staff that was leaning on his elbow watching my battle and said, "wha? that actually happens," after which I recollected myself and put back on a poker face >.>

Interesting! So, let me get this straight, since I haven't used Imprison much. If there is at least one opponent on the field and no opponent shares any move with the user, then Imprison fails. But if there are no opponents on the field or at least one opponent shares at least one move with the user, then no opponent may use a move known by the user until the user leaves the field. Does that sound correct? If you don't mind, I'll use this new tidbit to update my Move Restriction Guide.

 

[Chirnobyl]

Interesting! So, let me get this straight, since I haven't used Imprison much. If there is at least one opponent on the field and no opponent shares any move with the user, then Imprison fails. But if there are no opponents on the field or at least one opponent shares at least one move with the user, then no opponent may use a move known by the user until the user leaves the field. Does that sound correct? If you don't mind, I'll use this new tidbit to update my Move Restriction Guide.

That's basically how I see it, since my Gengar KO'd both my foes and Dusknoir was the only Pokemon out, I thought I had wasted a turn by having Dusknoir use Imprison, however when I saw the animation going through, I got surprised, (part of me thinks that surprise was also a factor in me accidentally screwing myself over)

 

[misdreavus79]

I think you just got really lucky... since Magic Guard should only prevent indirect damage (besides Pain Split or something), like Poison/Burn, Spikes, Sandstorm/Hail, even Life Orb Recoil...

There's no way I could have gotten really lucky for 5 months. We should maybe look into it.

 

[Tracker]

Download

I'm about to go test download again. I have a hunch that the game determines what stat is raised in this order:

Defender's defenses - Downloader's offensive stats - Defender's Offensives - Downloader's Defenses

And possibly Stat Stage of the defender is an override for all of them.

That raises the question: what happens when you, say, BP +6 Atk to a Porygon-Z with download against an opponent with equal stats.

 

[Chirnobyl]

hmm strange... perhaps.. that Imprison thing was a glitch... since Imprison just failed for me... on PBR when Dusknoir was the only standing Pokemon...

 

[MegaMewtwo]

Download

According to the official guides, in the event of equal defenses, Download boosts Sp. Atk. I know official guides aren't too reliable, but it seems to agree with the results from the earlier experiment.

 

[RBG]

What is the order of Me First vs. Tinted Lens?

Damage Formula:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25175

What is the order of Me First vs. Tinted Lens? We know they are back to back, but it is currently uncertain which comes first.

For testing this, calculate the damage up to Mod2. The number before that in the damage formula has to be odd, or the test will be inconclusive. Report as many hits as possible. Skill Swapping Tinted Lens onto Lucario would probably be easiest. The larger the damage you can do (in terms of HP, % won't help), the better. Obviously, the Pokemon has to resist the attack you are using (for instance, using Waterfall on Azumarill).

FINAL TEST OF THE DAMAGE FORMULA!

Lucario (Me First, Tinted Lens, 92 Atk, Lv 35)
Skarmory (129 Def, Steel Wing is attack used)
(Before Mod2 = 17)


If Me First is before Tinted Lens (17 * 1.5 = 25(.5) * 2 = 50)
.85 = 31 Damage
.86 - .87 = 32 Damage
.88 - .91 = 33 Damage
.92 - .93 = 34 Damage
.94 - .95 = 35 Damage
.96 - .99 = 36 Damage
1.00 = 37 Damage

If Tinted Lens is before Me First (17 * 2 = 34 * 1.5 = 51)
.85 - .86 = 32 Damage
.87 - .90 = 33 Damage
.91 - .92 = 34 Damage
.93 - .94 = 35 Damage
.95 - .98 = 36 Damage
.99 = 37 Damage
1.00 = 38 Damage

Therefore, I will test until I get either 31 or 38 Damage.

Just informing that this test is ready to be implemented. I just need to locate another DS so I can test it myself. (I find it easier if I do all of the set up and damage finding.) This would be done by now if I could target my ally with Me First.

 

[BlueCookies]

hmm strange... perhaps.. that Imprison thing was a glitch... since Imprison just failed for me... on PBR when Dusknoir was the only standing Pokemon...

Imprison fails if the opponents pokemon don't know any of the moves you want to Imprison.

 

[Chirnobyl]

Imprison fails if the opponents pokemon don't know any of the moves you want to Imprison.

lol i didn't expect that from you >.>, i had previously posted that Imprison works when you're the only Pokemon on the field at the time you use Imprison, (at the qualifiers) my Dusknoir using Imprison successfully when my Gengar used Explosion and cleared the field, however yesterday on PBR, when my Gengar cleared the field with Explosion, Dusknoir used Imprison and failed, which then leads me to think it was a glitch that they tried to fix in PBR much like the No Guard bypassing Protect issue... either that, or something weird happened at the Qualifiers...

 

[BlueCookies]

lol i didn't expect that from you >.>, i had previously posted that Imprison works when you're the only Pokemon on the field at the time you use Imprison, (at the qualifiers) my Dusknoir using Imprison successfully when my Gengar used Explosion and cleared the field, however yesterday on PBR, when my Gengar cleared the field with Explosion, Dusknoir used Imprison and failed, which then leads me to think it was a glitch that they tried to fix in PBR much like the No Guard bypassing Protect issue... either that, or something weird happened at the Qualifiers...

It worked the first time because they had a pokemon that knew one of the moves your Dusknoir had. It failed the next time because they didn't.

 

[Chirnobyl]

At both times, there were no Pokemon out..., unless you mean the pokemon that were out there prior to the use of the move had the moves

 

[obi]

The first posts are updated.

Anticipation: If a Ghost Pokemon has Anticipation, does it shudder at Explosion and Selfdestruct?

Early Bird: How does Early Bird work if a Pokemon is sleeping, and then gains Early Bird? My guess is that it divides the remaining turns by 2 and rounds down. My next question, then, is what happens if a sleeping Pokemon loses Early Bird? Is the remaining time multiplied by 2?

And possibly Stat Stage of the defender is an override for all of them.

You don't need this step to explain your result. If a Cresselia with equal defenses uses Calm Mind, it suddenly has more Special Defense than Defense.

Ergo, the order is Stat Modifier, Ability, Item, Paralysis

Where does Tailwind fit into this?

 

[RBG]

Where does Tailwind fit into this?

Im going to work on that. I need to do a linked battle soon so iwill work on that when i finish the damage formula

 

[Tracker]

Well, here are my results at testing Download. I tested each situation 4 times. I used wild Ditto that transformed into my defending pokemon on turn 1. I then switched out my Downloaders on turn 2.

Note: I didn't hack my pokemon this time, but I used Vitamin Modifier codes on many Porygon-Zs to adjust their stats. My defenders were just random lvl1 pokemon with equal stats.

Downloader with Balanced Offensive and Defensive stats against Defender with balanced Offensive and Defensive stats:

Special Attack was raised every time.

Downloader with equal Offensive stats, but higher Def than SpD against Defender with balanced Offensive and Defensive stats:

Special Attack was raised every time.

Downloader with equal Offensive stats, but higher SpD than Def against Defender with balanced Offensive and Defensive stats:

Special Attack was raised every time.

Downloader with equal Offensive and Defensive stats against Defender with balanced Defensive stats, but higher Atk than SpA:

Special Attack was raised every time.

Downloader with equal Offensive stats, but more Def than SpD against Defender with balanced Defensive stats, but higher AtK than SpA:

Special Attack was raised every time.
Downloader with equal Offensive stats, but more SpD than Def against Defender with balanced Defensive stats, but higher AtK than SpA:

Special Attack was raised every time.
Downloader with equal Offensive and Defensive stats against Defender with balanced Defensive stats, but higher SpA than Atk:

Special Attack was raised every time.

Downloader with equal Offensive stats, but more Def than SpD against Defender with balanced Defensive stats, but higher SpA than Atk:

Special Attack was raised every time.
Downloader with equal Offensive stats, but more SpD than Def against Defender with balanced Defensive stats, but higher SpA than Atk:

Special Attack was raised every time.


I tested every possible situation I could think of, but SpA was the only stat that was raised. I guess Nintendo was just lazy and saw that since Porygon-Z and Porygon-2 both had higher base SpA, and were the only ones with download, they just made Download boost the highest stat in each case.

 

[TheMaskedNitpicker]

So your conclusion is basically what we already had in our Dex: the only stats that matter for Download are the opponent's Defense and SpDef. Since every single test you did had an opponent with balanced defenses, SpAtk was raised every time.

Anticipation: If a Ghost Pokemon has Anticipation, does it shudder at Explosion and Selfdestruct?

I just did a test where my Wormadam (Trash Cloak) faced off against a wild level 31 Graveler (which should have Selfdestruct). It Skill Swapped its Anticipation onto the Graveler, then switched out to my Banette, who took Anticipation from the Graveler with its own Skill Swap. Not only did the Banette not shudder, but the Steel-type Wormadam didn't care about it either.

I would guess that the following are also true:

1. Rock-type Pokemon also don't shudder from Selfdestruct.
2. Steel-type Pokemon don't shudder from Explosion.
3. Rock-type Pokemon don't shudder from Explosion.

But those three need to be tested and I don't have the Pokemon on hand to do so.

 

[obi]

Well, maybe...

Preliminary tests show that Download, when facing a Pokemon with identical Defense\SpDef, will choose to boost whichever attacking stat is higher. However, this is extremely difficult to test in-game because it requires one to encounter an Adamant Porygon with a high Attack IV and a low SpAttk IV.

In other words, his conclusion was that Download raises the higher offensive stat because Porygon's Special Attack is naturally higher, and that was the one that got raised. It seems like we need one more test: on the attacker: Attack > Special Attack, on the defender: Defense = Special Defense.

 

[Tracker]

Downloader with higher Atk than SpA against Defender with equal stats: Special Attack was raised.