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DP Tier Discussion - BL and UU (mark 2)
- Thread starter Phuquoph
- Start date
The BL ladder will be up after the changes have been implemented on Shoddy, correct?
Because it's utterly crazy to do it before that we have things like Seed Bomb Linoone, a souped up DDLapras, Elemental Punches and other new crap Miltank, and of course, Curse Steelix.
And the Rotom forms. =/
Because it's utterly crazy to do it before that we have things like Seed Bomb Linoone, a souped up DDLapras, Elemental Punches and other new crap Miltank, and of course, Curse Steelix.
And the Rotom forms. =/
I really hope so Age of Kings, it would be pretty silly to combine the tiers now when so many UU Pokemon got changes. Some of these changes don't seem terribly important, but some may be and should be included for more accurate testing. The current BL's also got changes as well, apparently Outrage Kingdra/Flygon as well as others. The tiers for Platinum should probably be allowed to materialize for 2-3 months before the UU/Bl is combined.
Actually, I disagree with that logic for the purpose that it entirely flies in the face of what the BL fusion is for. If anything, we should make the BL ladder as soon as Platinum happens, and construct the metagame from scratch.
I agree with SDS with the fact that waiting for UU to settle with the platinum changes doesn't make sense for the purpose of Obi's plan.
However, I maintain that letting the experimentation at least start off in a BL ladder instead of simply dropping everything in the UU ladder makes more sense. No reason to erase a perfectly functioning metagame before we need to. >.>
IMO, all the new forms (maybe even giratina) should start off in OU. Rotom forms have got to prove themselves un-popular before they get BL status (and thus consideration for UU).
However, I maintain that letting the experimentation at least start off in a BL ladder instead of simply dropping everything in the UU ladder makes more sense. No reason to erase a perfectly functioning metagame before we need to. >.>
IMO, all the new forms (maybe even giratina) should start off in OU. Rotom forms have got to prove themselves un-popular before they get BL status (and thus consideration for UU).
Thanks, added.
Xatu has just been added. I haven't included the others because AFAIK they haven't received any notable new moves. If you really want me to add them I will, but they are all there in the Research thread if you're looking for one particular Pokemon.
We'll deal with that as it comes up.
@ ChouToshio: From what I hear, the BL ladder would exist in tandem with the UU ladder for a while for the specific purpose of making sure that people that still want to play UU aren't stuck with the BL Ladder.
@ ChouToshio: From what I hear, the BL ladder would exist in tandem with the UU ladder for a while for the specific purpose of making sure that people that still want to play UU aren't stuck with the BL Ladder.
I did not realize Purugly got Knock Off. It makes deciding a set even harder....
The Fatass Badass (Purugly) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 58 HP/252 Atk/200 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Hypnosis
- U-turn
Meh, I run this in BL. I don't know if anything's replacable for it, maybe U-turn. I've wanted to stick in Return as well for random stuff, but...
The Fatass Badass (Purugly) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 58 HP/252 Atk/200 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Sucker Punch
- Taunt
- Hypnosis
- U-turn
Meh, I run this in BL. I don't know if anything's replacable for it, maybe U-turn. I've wanted to stick in Return as well for random stuff, but...
Or if Hippowdon ends up BL (#53 in recent Standard stats). It alone will render all of my current BL teams useless....I already hate the thing more than I hated Gallade and Spiritomb, and I was the happiest child in the world when those idiots ended up OU.
To be honest I'm not entirely convinced that Curse is that great an option for Steelix at least in the current UU environment. Its special defense is just too low, even with max / max EVs, to continuously take hits the way Cursers need to in order to be effective. Also, here's an interesting piece of information: an absolute minimum speed Steelix that uses Curse on the first turn can, of all things, be Encored by a Shuckle with no speed investment lol.
Steel + Ground's coverage is not bad, but not that great either when so much resists your power attack, Gyro Ball. Things are worse when you consider that almost all the Electric types gained Magnet Rise (but not Lanturn crucially), and the bulky candidates such as Luxray and Ampharos especially wouldn't mind coming in to wall you and pick you off. All I'm saying is that Curse Steelix will be very, VERY difficult to use in the current environment.
Skuntank use will go up a lot with Sucker Punch. Now Mixtank doesn't need quite as much speed. Outrage Altraia will dominate. Earth Power + Omastar = BL, finally? Not to mention Cleffy's new annoying tools, Knock Off and Trick. And I agree with Lemmiwinks, Curse Steelix is not going to be that scary, it's just too vulnerable to special attacks. (and it still gets owned by Probopass...)
Hardly....what Skuntank always needed was an attack thats not Dark, Fire or Poison or some kind of buff. Sucker Punch is welcome but its hardly got the same kind of impact as Absol or Cacturne with Sucker Punch.
Also am I the only one who noticed Swellow got Heat Wave too? Sure its got crappy special attack but its biggest problem has always been Steelix.
I didn't highlight Heat Wave on Swellow because it would require huge special attack investment and a boosting item just to 2HKO Steelix, but we all know how Swellow likes its Toxic / Flame Orb. And after all that you are left with much less physical attack, no reliable status infliction, and one less moveslot (as if Swellow didn't already have moveslot problems), all to just have a chance to kill Steelix? Not worth it IMO. You get to destroy your main counter (but what about all the others?) but have compromised Swellow's chance of an end-game sweep, so Steelix has already done its job.
Does Ampharos finally gain Tail Glow?
No.
Speaking of Ampharos, it occurred to me that the Counter set has been boosted quite abit. Magnet Rise + Counter is seriously potent with his high special defense and zero weaknesses. Seed Bomb is a great addition to Linoone as the Belly Drum sweeper can at least now hit neutral on its main counters since most of them have a dual grass weakness to negate their resistance. Shiftry has become quite potent with Sucker Punch + Swords Dance off its stronger attack and a still respectable 80 speed to fall back on.
Kingler is actually now quite a dangeorus physical threat with Superpower, Omastar's Earth Power gives deadly coverage with Ancientpower and Surf/Hydro Pump. Cradily finally gets Seed Bomb to give the Swords Dance set a dangerous Rock/Grass STAB coverage. Gastrodon has a Ground STAB now to go off its better special attack, Leafeon is a bigger annoyance with Knock Off to go with its already great support movepool. Trick Claydol may prove to be rather interesting too.
Still wish Mantine got Air Slash instead of Air Cutter though.
Speaking of Ampharos, it occurred to me that the Counter set has been boosted quite abit. Magnet Rise + Counter is seriously potent with his high special defense and zero weaknesses. Seed Bomb is a great addition to Linoone as the Belly Drum sweeper can at least now hit neutral on its main counters since most of them have a dual grass weakness to negate their resistance. Shiftry has become quite potent with Sucker Punch + Swords Dance off its stronger attack and a still respectable 80 speed to fall back on.
Kingler is actually now quite a dangeorus physical threat with Superpower, Omastar's Earth Power gives deadly coverage with Ancientpower and Surf/Hydro Pump. Cradily finally gets Seed Bomb to give the Swords Dance set a dangerous Rock/Grass STAB coverage. Gastrodon has a Ground STAB now to go off its better special attack, Leafeon is a bigger annoyance with Knock Off to go with its already great support movepool. Trick Claydol may prove to be rather interesting too.
Still wish Mantine got Air Slash instead of Air Cutter though.
Works well with Static too, as most physical moves not called Earthquake tend to be contact moves, and Ampharos is one of the few Electrics that greatly benefits from paralyzing the opposition.
You never know, it might actually be worth passing speed to it now, given that it can now hit Claydol with boosted physical STAB.
To be honest I don't see why Omastar would need Ancientpower in its set now. Now that it has Earth Power to hit Lanturn and Toxicroak all it needs is HP Electric for Mantine and other Waters to 1-2HKO practically everything with Stealth Rock and Rain in play. Ancientpower would just hinder its coverage.
I'd also like to point out that Primeape is now the first Pokemon after Smeargle to get access to the Close Combat / Outrage combo for unparalleled power and coverage. A Bulk Up / SubSalac set now looks more potent as it no longer has such extreme coverage issues. Or if you feel like taking chances you could try Sub + Anger Point and use to extra slot for Endeavor or something to hit Claydol and others harder.
Personally speaking Ancientpower has saved my ass on more than one occasion simply because of the stat boost as rare as it may be. But Ancientpower does hit Walrein, Cloyster, Lapras, Altaria, Scyther much harder. I think Omastar has bigger things to be worrying about than Mantine, like say Poliwrath who still doesn't really fear a HP Electric. At least in the case of Lapras and Altaria they're big enough threats to make the slightly extra damage worthwhile.