DPP OU Metagame Analysis Feb 09

[wildfire393]

Yeah, nice job on the Analysis. Anyway I really do agree with you about CB Scizor. Bullet Punch is just asking for Magnezone to come in and kill off one of your Pokemon, and you have nothing to do about it. Personally I enjoy using SD Scizor more, because it has more options and can sweep easily.

This has problems with certain Magnzeones as well. Scarf 'Zone can come in on the SD and hit you with an HP Fire or the like before you get a chance to hit him back with your Fighting Move. At least with Band, you have the ability to predict the switch-in and Nail it with Superpower.

 

[Misa]

This has problems with certain Magnzeones as well. Scarf 'Zone can come in on the SD and hit you with an HP Fire or the like before you get a chance to hit him back with your Fighting Move. At least with Band, you have the ability to predict the switch-in and Nail it with Superpower.

Which reminds me, has anyone used Scizor with substitute before? It allows you to predict something like a magnezone/heatran, and get a chance to OHKO them both back with superpower. I've been seeing/using this set in the standard ladder and it seems to work pretty well.

Here's how it goes.

Scizor@life orb
-Substitute
-Bullet Punch
-U-turn
-Super Power

 

[diinbong]

Stealth Rock+Substitute+Life Orb will wear you down quickly. I think you want Leftovers. Also, I don't see the point in U-turn>X-Scissor. With Substitute you're scouting the switch in anyway, so there's no reason for it.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I want to hear about the standard sets and trends that have been showing up on the ladder, not the new ones you've been using =/. There's already a thread for that. The last couple of posts have been pretty off-topic. Please don't derail the thread - we're looking for the trends in the game at the moment. Thanks.

 

[Misa]

I was wondering on some of the pokemon that you've listed, but what happened to Tyranitar during the February metagame? I'm sure that with Latias around, T-tar might have gotten some usage up a notch.

 

[Sonneh]

I was wondering on some of the pokemon that you've listed, but what happened to Tyranitar during the February metagame? I'm sure that with Latias around, T-tar might have gotten some usage up a notch.

It's probably the presence of Scizor, people double think when they place Tyranitar in their team. U-Turn and Bullet Punch are two great moves that make Tyranitar double think. The same applies to Latias and Scizor is a good check to it.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Special-based versions of Tyranitar aren't seen as much now, since the physical variants of it are arguably a lot more useful in the current metagame. The Choice Bander's Pursuit is immensely helpful in taking out Latias and other frail sweepers that fear Tyranitar, and is as useful as ever in cracking open an opponent's team. Dragon Dance Tyranitar took quite a hit, with Scizor's Bullet Punch being able to OHKO with Stealth Rock, meaning that getting off a sweep can be quite difficult. Scarf Tyranitar is also quite popular to outspeed Latias, Gengar, etc, and get the surprise first hit in from something typically viewed as being rather slow.

You must not have seen it =]. Tyranitar is present as it always has been, with the CB set being the most popular. Latias gives it a reason to use CB, and Scizor is reason enough not to DD, so I'm assuming that's why.

 

[darkie]

Scizor is reason enough not to DD

Maybe if you're not holding a Babiri berry.

 

[Flashstorm1]

I feel as if Babiri Berry should be given a mention on the Dragon Dance variants of Tyranitar, in the sense that they have proven quite effective in reducing the threat Scizor poses with Bullet Punch; on Suspect, not much stops Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance, especially with Scizor gone.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks, added.

Special-based versions of Tyranitar aren't seen as much now, since the physical variants of it are arguably a lot more useful in the current metagame. The Choice Bander's Pursuit is immensely helpful in taking out Latias and other frail sweepers that fear Tyranitar, and is as useful as ever in cracking open an opponent's team. Dragon Dance Tyranitar took quite a hit, with Scizor's Bullet Punch being able to OHKO with Stealth Rock, meaning that getting off a sweep can be quite difficult. However, since Scizor is quite often the only answer teams have to DD Tyranitar, a Babiri Berry (Steel resist) can be used to foil its Bullet Punch, allowing Tyranitar to take it out and opening up the rest of the team to a sweep. Scarf Tyranitar is also quite popular to outspeed Latias, Gengar, etc, and get the surprise first hit in from something typically viewed as being rather slow.

 

[The Business Man]

Awesome thread, great writing.

This is especially helpful for me, as I am just getting back into competitive again after a month or so hiatus. Good to see what has become popular/less popular and what Latias has done to the metagame.

 

[Mekkah]

You mentioned Wish quite a bit on Vaporeon and Blissey, even mentioned one as competition for the other, but I'd say Jirachi should get a mention there as well. I find myself including it a lot. I mean, a recovery move on a Steel that can pick between having enough Def and enough SpDef? That's awesome.

Also really annoying are those sets that set up Stealth Rock first, then Trick their Scarf onto something that doesn't want a Scarf. You generally switch something into Iron Head that can take quite many hits from it (since on average you won't gain an opportunity until after 2-3 hits), and those things usually hate getting Scarfed.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Thanks, mekkah.

Jirachi gained Iron Head in the transition to DPP, and it has become its most popular move. When equipped with a Choice Scarf, Iron Head's respectable power and frustrating 60% flinch rate really come into play, and allow it to 'hax' its way past many opposing leads. Jirachi is one of the main reasons Aerodactyl and Azelf have become so rare - no one wants to give a pokemon only a 40% chance of achieving something. Scarfed versions can also deal with bulkier leads such as opposing Swampert and Bronzong by simply Tricking its scarf onto them, rendering them pretty much useless for the rest of the battle. While physical sweeper Jirachi is probably the commonest version, one mustn't forget the great supporting niche that Jirachi can fill, with a great number of resistances, good defenses, and Wish to heal both itself and the team.

 

[Misa]

I feel as if Babiri Berry should be given a mention on the Dragon Dance variants of Tyranitar, in the sense that they have proven quite effective in reducing the threat Scizor poses with Bullet Punch; on Suspect, not much stops Tyranitar after a Dragon Dance, especially with Scizor gone.

I'm curious, but I'm not sure why Swampert isn't getting so much usage right now, especially since he's one of the pokemon that counters T-tar perfectly, even with the Babiri berry equipped ones.

Is it due to Latias? or is it something else?

 

[MetaNite]

Swampert is getting a lot of usage. I'd say it's on 1 out of 4 teams. However, it may have dropped a bit because of the need for more Steel types to counter the dragons. Swampert is still a pretty common lead though.

I feel like discussing Heracross:

Although Platinum hasn't changed it directly, the new metagame Heracross resides in has its ups and downs. Overall, the brawling bug has taken a hit thanks to priority and the introduction of the Rotom formes. However Heracross is still a fearsome foe, and is one of few Pokemon with the ability to reliably revenge kill both Latias and Steel-types, thanks to its unique STAB attacks. It is one of the deadliest Pokemon because of this great type coverage, combined with 2 dual stab attacks.

 

[umbarsc]

While physical sweeper Jirachi is probably the commonest version

That needs some fixing.

 

[Misa]

Scarfran has died out for a bit I really don't see much. There were a vast amount before Platinum came out, and for some reason it's gone now. You will see Heatran as a lead or SubToxic Heatran. As for Scarfran, i think it probably died out due to the fact DD Mence could come in on the attacks and set up DD to easily. You will definitely see more Lead Tran's to handle opposing Metagross leads which are really used alot today. SubToxic is pretty effective also to handle Bulky Waters.

This is actually seems quite ironic, since Scarftran was one of the most popular Heatran variants during a few weeks ago. Maybe it died out because it took too much prediction to use against an incoming DDmence/Nite.

 

[Ancien Régime]

Overall, the brawling bug took quite a hit from the introduction of the Rotom forms

It's kind of funny, Heracross is actually one of the best Rotom counters imaginable - it switches in easily on nearly any move Rotom can do, and is either unharmed, harmed marginally (as in a Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt), or helped immensely (Will O' Wisp). Heracross then proceeds to destroy Rotom with Pursuit.

The only thing it fears is Overheat from Rotom-h, and Choice Specs attacks, but other than that, Heracross will beat Rotom much of the time.

 

[Misa]

It's kind of funny, Heracross is actually one of the best Rotom counters imaginable - it switches in easily on nearly any move Rotom can do, and is either unharmed, harmed marginally (as in a Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt), or helped immensely (Will O' Wisp). Heracross then proceeds to destroy Rotom with Pursuit.

The only thing it fears is Overheat from Rotom-h, and Choice Specs attacks, but other than that, Heracross will beat Rotom much of the time.

Also noting that Discharge can be a problem for Heracross as well, since the paralysis means that Heracross won't be sweeping easily. Heracross can't do much back to Rotom if it stays in against Heracross, so it's not a decent counter/check against Rotom-H.

 

[Bakachild]

It's kind of funny, Heracross is actually one of the best Rotom counters imaginable - it switches in easily on nearly any move Rotom can do, and is either unharmed, harmed marginally (as in a Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt), or helped immensely (Will O' Wisp). Heracross then proceeds to destroy Rotom with Pursuit.

The only thing it fears is Overheat from Rotom-h, and Choice Specs attacks, but other than that, Heracross will beat Rotom much of the time.

It isn't much of a counter if it fears Overheat which will OHKO most of the time since Heracross will fail to OHKO with Pursuit.

 

[Misa]

It isn't much of a counter if it fears Overheat which will OHKO most of the time since Heracross will fail to OHKO with Pursuit.

Fun Fact: If Heracross switches into a Will-o-wisp (and rightfully so), it can OHKO back with a CB Guts Boosted Pursuit. If Rotom stands his ground, Megahorn can easily 2HKO (try not to do this against Rotom-H, you'll die miserably instead).

 

[diinbong]

Sorry for the off-topic post LR. If you want me to spell check it or something you can PM me. :) Great article; thanks.

 

[cim]

It is really the versatility of how Scizor can be played that makes it as popular as it is;

I disagree with that. Scizor isn't considered a "versatile" Pokémon in my book, and it is certainly not popular because of its many options. There are two sets that are ever used (CB and SD). Very few people are using it for the "versatility" simply because it doesn't really have any; it's almost exclusively used as a physical priority attacker.

The Salamence section didn't really say very much that a Pokémon analysis + usage chart wouldn't tell you; it just said that Salamence was common, can run Dragon Dance, and sometimes goes Mixed (and that all of that is popular).

With the addition of Latias into OU, Heatran can no longer Fire Blast its way through teams as easily as it once could. Latias takes little from anything Heatran has to throw at it bar Explosion, and can hit it back with a strong Surf.

The Heatran section is a nice explanation of how he is used in OU, though this section might need some tweaking; I've seen a little rise in Dragon Pulse "for Latias", which on the Scarf set does 49-57% to it assuming Naive. Heatran was also rarely used as something that just spammed Fire Blast to kill shit on teams; it's not any _more_ dangerous to spam Fire Blast now than it was then either as this section implies since there's always been Tyranitar and Heatran.

Other than that, the analysis is pretty interesting; some parts are better than others (the Flygon part in particular is great!) but it's a useful guide to the OU metagame and if you ever want some help, drop me a pm ^_^

 

[Ancien Régime]

It isn't much of a counter if it fears Overheat which will OHKO most of the time since Heracross will fail to OHKO with Pursuit.

True, but Rotom has to predict the Hera switchin (and Overheat is the very last move Rotom will use without knowing the opposing team) and if it doesn't it goes down.

Discharge can be annoying, but sacrificing Hera to kill Rotom isn't a bad deal, and Heracross can still get another hit in - a Guts CBed hit hurts any switchin badly, unless they're immune or 4x resistant.

 

[Legacy Raider]

It's kind of funny, Heracross is actually one of the best Rotom counters imaginable - it switches in easily on nearly any move Rotom can do, and is either unharmed, harmed marginally (as in a Shadow Ball or Thunderbolt), or helped immensely (Will O' Wisp). Heracross then proceeds to destroy Rotom with Pursuit.

The only thing it fears is Overheat from Rotom-h, and Choice Specs attacks, but other than that, Heracross will beat Rotom much of the time.

Ok, thanks AR. That was pretty much c&ped from another poster, I should have checked it through a bit better. But still, I feel as if Heracross is oh so much rarer than it used to be. If it makes such a great counter for Rotom formes (something that is in pretty high demand) and its own no 1 counter is so rarely seen, then does anyone have an explanation for why it is so uncommon?

Sorry for the off-topic post LR. If you want me to spell check it or something you can PM me. :) Great article; thanks.

That would be great, diinbong, thank you.

I disagree with that. Scizor isn't considered a "versatile" Pokémon in my book, and it is certainly not popular because of its many options. There are two sets that are ever used (CB and SD). Very few people are using it for the "versatility" simply because it doesn't really have any; it's almost exclusively used as a physical priority attacker.

I meant versatility not in the number of sets it can use, but more the different things a set can do. I'm referring particularly to the CB one here, as it is the most common. Revenging with Bullet Punch, using U-turn to scout, and trapping with Pursuit - I feel that is quite a large variety of different uses. Maybe I wasn't very clear in the analysis.