1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Dragonair [BW2 Revamp] (GP: 2/2)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Governess, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Thank you, Raseri. I'll jazz this up in a bit; itll be ready to look over soon.
  2. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Sorry for double posting but ok; finally gotten this written out (So much fluff.. @-@) I tried to expand on the partners to the best of my knowledge, since not a lot of them were listed. Anyways, this is ready for the QC team.
  3. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,422
    hello Governess. [:

    [SET COMMENTS] (Bulky Dragon Dance)

    • You mention that +1 Dragonair can KO Jynx while Jynx can only 2HKO back. The issue with this is that Jynx still outspeeds Dragonair at +1. +1 Extremespeed doesn't even OHKO Jynx after Rocks. Change this to reflect that if Dragonair wants to beat Jynx reliably, it needs two Dragon Dances.
    • People might think that Extremespeed is bad on Dragonair since it's boosting its Speed as it is. Mention that Dragonair's Speed is not very good without investment, so Extremespeed can be used to beat Choice Scarf users who outspeed Dragonair even after two or three boosts are attained. Some examples you may choose to include are scarf Primeape and Jynx who outspeed at +2 and scarf Zebstrika who outspeeds at +3.
    • When you talk about Sleep Talk, you make it sound like it's in OO since you compare it to the other slashes and basically say they are both better. Sleep Talk in conjunction with Marvel Scale can be great though, since Dragonair has pretty solid mixed bulk while Marvel Scale is activated. Don't sell it too short because it's really not that bad, (although I do agree that one of the other options is better in most cases). If you are keeping Sleep Talk slashed, it might also be nice to note that calling Outrage with Sleep Talk does not lock Dragonair into it.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Bulky Dragon Dance)

    • You mention that thanks to its good special bulk, Dragonair doesn't have much issues setting up against Charizard and Rotom-S. I would choose something else in place of Rotom-S since it can Trick it a Choice Scarf. Something like Eelektross, which usually runs Fire/Grass/Electric coverage, might be better to mention here.
    • You said "a Careful nature maximizes its Special Attack" -> change to Special Defense
    • You also said "While Dragonair shouldn't be attemping a sweep with this set," and I'm not too sure what you mean by that. The point of the set is to sweep. The defensive nature of the set is just used so that it can set up easily. In fact, I would probably just cut that snippet out altogether and just say "Pokemon that can spred paralysis or burn, such as Volbeat, Liepard, or Misdreavus, can be helpful in weakening the opponent for Dragonair."
    • Regirock doesn't really counter Dragonair (or at least, it doesn't stop it dead in its tracks). Since Dragonair naturally outspeeds Regirock, its strongest move, Rock Slide, cannot flinch. And this is the damage calc against Dragonair. 252 Atk Regirock (+Atk) Rock Slide vs 252 HP/4 Def Eviolite Dragonair: 32.52% - 38.65% (3-4 hits to KO) I would just cut mention of Regirock there. While it can heal back damage with Drain Punch, Dragonair can just set up on it for days. Weezing is fine since it can run Clear Smog to strip it of its boosts and Pain Split against it is it is using Rest to try and beat it.

    [SET COMMENTS] (RestTalk)

    • I would throw in the tidbit about Sleep Talk not locking into Outrage again, just for knowledge on how to play the set. Some people might be turned off on the idea that they will get locked into Outrage from Sleep Talk, so letting them know that this is not the case will help them decide which slash they want to use on the set.

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (RestTalk)

    • You say, "Golurk is also a good partner, as he can deal with Steel-types that wall Dragonair, as well as handle Sawk and Musharna, both of which threatens Dragonair if Marvel Scale isn't activated." While I agree with this line of thinking, I would cut that last part. Thanks to Mold Breaker, Sawk bypasses Marvel Scale, and Musharna can't really do much to Dragon Tail variants since it doesn't commonly, if ever, run Substitute.

    [Other Options]

    • You mention the possibility of an offensive Dragon Dance set, which I've actually used myself to moderate success in the past. While I don't know that it deserves its own set onsite, I wouldn't call it a "glass cannon." With Eviolite, its defenses are close to base 100 each, both being slightly higher. While this isn't /superb/ when uninvested, it's still pretty good, and it's definitely not a "glass cannon's" defensive stats. I would just say that it's going to have a much more difficult time setting up.

    [Checks and Counters]

    • You say that "Alomomola, Tangela, Regirock, Musharna, and Misdreavus can all wall Dragonite with ease." Cut Alomomola from that list; while it can wall it to hell and back, it literally can't do anything to Dragonair since it runs Rest on both of its sets. At the very least, Tangela can Leech Seed or Knock Off to ruin its day.

    I'm going to wait to stamp this until other QC members can weigh in a bit, but there are a pretty good number of things that need to be changed. Dragonair is a really weird Pokemon, so this is sort of to be expected. For now, go ahead and make these changes, and in the meantime, I'll see what other QC members have to say. Also make sure and read over the analysis before sending it to GP. There are some silly typos in a decent amount of places that can be fixed.
  4. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Thank you, Treecko. Made all the changes, and did my best to fix any obvious spelling errors. And of course, take as much time as you need.

    EDIT: Wow, there were so many times I spelt "Dragonair" as "Dragonite" XD Just realized that as I was proof-reading it.
  5. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Sorry for double posting, but I also removed the fluff and fixed the other errors tennisace pointed out on IRC while still keeping the valuable information. Is it ready to be looked at by QC?
  6. Worldtour

    Worldtour left: Hitmonchan right: rest of RU
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2010
    Messages:
    1,487
    Why are you using "she" and a pronoun for Dragonair? Dragonair has a 50% chance to be a male.

    EDIT: Understood
  7. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    I can see the concern, Swamp, but I have also done the same for Swanna NU, and it has a 50% of being male as well, and I haven't (as of date) received any tumoil or distress from QC or GP about it. Also:

    If this rule still applies, as long as I keep it consistent, it doesn't seem to be an issue. It may be a weird thing for others to see; I sort of have a stereotype from Pokemon Anime that most of the Dragonair I see are girls, so that's why I used it as such x3 I'm sorry for the confusion, and if it does bother a GP member or such, I'll change it to 'it', but if I'm allowed to do it to Swanna, why not Dragonair?

    EDIT: I don't want to be sexist towards whether a Pokemon is male or female, so I hope that's ok with me having it female ,_,
  8. Hollywood

    Hollywood time to pay!
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon IRC SOPis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,422
    in the overview: "Since she lacks almost no offensive prowess," switch lacks to has

    set comments for DD: on the part about jynx, mention briefly that Ice Beam only 2HKOs. I feel like this was in there before, but I may be mistaken.

    only nitpicks I had left.

    and as far as I understand, as long as it is consistent, gender pronouns are ok. I'll leave it up to GP though in the end.

    good stuff; sorry about the delay on the stamp. ddos etc.

    [qc]3/3[/qc]
  9. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Thank you, Treecko. Implemented all your changes. This is ready for GP / amchecks!
  10. GatoDelFuego

    GatoDelFuego The little hand says it's time to rock and roll
    is a Smogon Media Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
    Mentor

    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    2,827
    REMOVE CHANGE COMMENTS

    Show Hide
    [Overview]

    <p>A single glance at Dragonair's stats would usually give you the impression that she is a mediocre Pokemon. Interesting choice on Dragonair's gender, but I suppose it's your call! In all honestly, she is. Offensively, her stats aren't so hot, especially when there are better offensive Dragon-types, such as Fraxure. Since As she has almost no offensive prowess,&mdash;even with Dragon Dance,&mdash;, (RCommas) she finds herself as not only setup bait to many Substitute users, such as Golurk, but also walled against most physically defensive Pokemon, such as Golem and Alomomola. If you combine that with her mediocre Speed and defensive stats, Dragonair might not even be worth using in the NU tier.</p>

    <p>However, thanks to two useful abilities in Shed Skin and Marvel Scale and Eviolite, Dragonair still finds hope to become known in NU. While her defensive stats alone aren't very promising, holding an Eviolite allows it them to be utilized. Her great defensive typing gives her resistances to many common types, as well as only two weaknesses. Because of this bulk, she can make use of it with Dragon Dance, as she can set up much more efficiently thanks to her decent bulk. Thunder Wave and Dragon Tail are also great move selections for Dragonair, as she can cripple sweepers and rack up entry hazard damage with it. Overall, while Dragonair does have her perks, she is outclassed in many ways, and should be used with extreme care.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Rest
    move 3: Outrage
    move 4: Waterfall / ExtremeSpeed / Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Shed Skin / Marvel Scale
    nature: Careful
    evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonair can function well with a bulky offensive set. She can set up Dragon Dance on special attackers, such as Jynx (who which can only 2HKO Dragonair with Ice Beam, but Dragonair needs +2 Speed to outspeed Jynx), by taking advantage of her decent bulk, in contrast to other frail sweepers. In spite of her defensive boost, this set isn't meant to set up on powerhouses and bulky setup sweepers, such as Sawk and Carracosta, but it is rather meant to set up on special attackers and walls, who which in some cases cannot stop at least one Dragon Dance. Thanks to Dragonair's great ability options, Rest can be used with succession, giving Dragonair a recovery option.</p>

    <p>Dragon Dance is the core of this set, as it raises her Dragonair's Speed and Attack to viable levels. Rest is Dragonair's only source of recovery, and while two turns asleep can hinder Dragonair's capabilities, Shed Skin and Marvel Scale can mend it. If she finds an opportunity to set up, Dragonair can break through opposing teams with her powerful STAB move, Outrage, because there aren't many Pokemon in the NU tier that can resist it. Waterfall is used for extra coverage, but unless Dragonair encounters a Steel-type, Outrage is the superior choice. ExtremeSpeed is also an option if priority is preferred, as it can be used for revenge killing weakened adversaries. Dragonair's Speed is not very good without investment, so ExtremeSpeed can be used to revenge kill Choice Scarf users who that outspeed Dragonair even after two or three boosts are attained, such as Primeape, Jynx, and Zebstrika. Finally, Sleep Talk is another option in the final moveslot, as it takes advantage of Rest while working well in conjunction with Marvel Scale. Sleep Talk also allows Outrage to be used without being locked into it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Shed Skin and Marvel Scale both have their merits, and should be used accordingly. Shed Skin gives the opportunity for Dragonair to wake up from Rest by 33% of the time, which can be useful in the midst of setting up. However, Marvel Scale gives Dragonair a 50% boost in Defense when Dragonair is inflicted with status, which allows Dragonair to be even harder to defeat. Full investment in both HP and Special Defense allows Dragonair to obtain the bulk necessary to set up on her main target. With Eviolite, the given Special Defense EVs, and her great defensive typing, Dragonair doesn't have many difficulties setting up against special attackers, such as Eelektross and Charizard. A Careful nature maximizes her Special Defense. An EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe is optional to handle physical attackers, such as Tauros and Choiced Braviary. Aqua Tail is an option over Waterfall for more power, but Waterfall is more reliable, and the flinch rate can be useful.</p>

    <p>Since As Dragonair's attacks are usually underwhelming, entry hazards are appreciated so that Dragonair can manage to land a KO. Scolipede, Garbodor, and Probopass are good partners for that role; the latter has good synergy with Dragonair, as it takes the Ice-type attacks aimed at her. Pokemon that can spred paralysis or burn, such as Volbeat, Liepard, or Misdreavus, can be helpful in weakening the opponent for Dragonair. Heal Bell support can be useful for Dragonair, which is recommended when Shed Skin is the chosen ability. Lickilicky and Miltank are great selections as Heal Bell partners; Lickilicky can also pass Wishes to Dragonair. Lastly, physical walls, such as Weezing, stop Dragonair in her tracks. Gorebyss and Musharna are both great special attackers to deal with them.</p>

    [SET]
    name: RestTalk
    move 1: Rest
    move 2: Dragon Tail / Outrage
    move 3: Thunder Wave
    move 4: Sleep Talk
    item: Eviolite
    ability: Marvel Scale
    nature: Careful
    evs: 244 HP / 56 Def / 208 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>Dragonair's goal for this set is to spread paralysis against the opposing team, which can be achieved thanks to her access to Eviolite, recovery from Rest, and the Defense boost from Marvel Scale when Dragonair is afflicted with status. Rest is the key move in this set, as it keeps Dragonair healthy. Thunder Wave is an important move to the set because it can not only cripple the opposing sweepers, but can give an opportunity for teammates to attack. Dragon Tail in conjunction with Thunder Wave allows Dragonair to pass paralysis to the adversary, as well as stopping setup sweepers from advancing, such as Swords Dance Samurott. However, due to Dragonair's lackluster Attack stat, she is often setup bait to Substitute users, who can then set up entry hazards, Leech Seed, or even power up. In such a scenario, Outrage is a solution, allowing Dragonair to have some sort of offensive presence. Sleep Talk is the final move of the set, allowing Dragonair to continue to act while she is asleep from Rest.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Marvel Scale encourages Rest to be used, as the 50% Defense boost helps maintain Dragonair's longevity, allowing her to fare well against physical attackers, such as Rapidash, non-Mold Breaker Pinser, and Swellow. The given EV spread balances her defensive stats when Marvel Scale is activated. A Careful nature enhances her Special Defense. Eviolite also increases her defenses, allowing her to survive hits much easier. If Thunder Wave isn't wanted for Dragonair, Dragon Dance can be replaced with it, giving her the chance to deal with more offensive threats. Toxic can also replace Thunder Wave to cripple bulky walls, such as Regirock and Alomomola. Pokemon that benefit from having paralyzed opponents, such as Choice Band Sawk, Butterfree, and Braviary, are great allies, as they can perform sweeps on the opposing team with fewer difficulties. Rotom-F and Jynx are great Pokemon to handle powerful physical attackers, such as Golurk and Braviary, but they must be careful of their opposing Fighting-type moves. Golurk is also a good partner, as it can deal with Steel-types, Sawk, and Musharna. This variant of Dragonair is Taunt bait, which attracts Pokemon such as Liepard and Misdreavus to prevent Dragonair from using her support moves. Gurdurr and Sawk can easily deal with the former, while Charizard can take a Will-O-Wisp from the latter and proceed to KO it.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>With powerful special attacks at her arsenal, such as Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse, Dragonair has the option of running a special attacking set. However, her mediocre Special Attack prevents this set from being successful. Leftovers can be used for any of Dragonair's sets, but she really needs the defensive boosts that Eviolite has to offer. Alternatively, an offensive Dragon Dance set can try to bring out Dragonair's offensive prowess, but her lackluster defenses are exposed even more so, making it difficult to set up. Flamethrower and Fire Blast are optional to deal with Steel-types, but Dragonair has no place for them in her movesets. Substitute can also be used in the bulky Dragon Dance set to try to set up Dragon Dance, but with a lack of reliable recovery, Dragonair would be wearing herself down.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Even with Eviolite, Dragonair doesn't stand a chance against many of the offensive Pokemon in NU. In general, almost every Ice-type in NU, bar Jynx, can easily defeat Dragonair. Sawk with Mold Breaker can cut through Marvel Scale, making Dragonair even more vunerable to physical attacks. Dragonair still has a hard time with physical walls, even with Dragon Dance. Steel-types, specifically Bastiodon and Probopass, can easily wall Dragonair. Tangela, Regirock, Musharna, and Misdreavus can all wall Dragonair with ease. Offensively, Pokemon with Choice Band can break through the bulky Dragon Dance set, namely Braviary, Sawk, and Golurk. Taunt users, such as Skuntank and Liepard, can prey on Dragonair and render her useless. Dragonair is setup bait for many Substitute users, especially Murkrow, Golurk, and SubSeed Ludicolo. Bulky Pokemon that can lay entry hazards, such as Roselia, can also set up on her. Finding a Pokemon to handle Dragonair is a very easy task, as her mediocrity allows her to be defeated by a variety of Pokemon in the NU tier.</p>


    [gp]1/2[/gp]
  11. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Thank you, Gato. Implemented the check. It only needs one more GP check to go on-site! :)
  12. NixHex

    NixHex A new vice president erryonce in a while to keep me busy
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,586
    [gp]2/2[/gp]
  13. Governess

    Governess A Beautiful Blossom Waiting to Bloom
    is a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2012
    Messages:
    916
    Thank you, NixHex. If nothing else needs to be fixed, it's ready to go on-site! :)
  14. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Messages:
    3,127

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)