Effective Offensive Combinations

[Legacy Raider]

There have been various recent threads in Stark discussing defensive combinations of pokemon that work well together. While it is true that having a strong and balanced defensive core is essential for most teams' success, it is also true that without the right combinations of offensive pokemon you will have a very hard time sweeping teams. Making an effective team is not just about slapping a couple of random sweepers together and calling it a day. You really need to think about the strengths and weaknesses of each individual member, and more importantly, about how they work together as an effective and cohesive fighting unit.

Defensive cores have been done to death; this thread will hopefully trigger some discussion on effective offensive cores. After all, no matter how good the type synergy and spectrum balancing on your team is, if you have no battle plan and can't break through your opponent's defenses, you won't be winning many games. Unless you're a queer that likes stall! =P

I'll start off with a very basic but highly effective offensive combo: the infamous Salamence / Magnezone combination, often referred to as Salazone or Magnemence.

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Salamence @ Life Orb
Adamant - Intimidate
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 SpA

- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

+

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Naive - Magnet Pull
4 Atk, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- HP Fire
- Explosion

Or something along those lines. Now, this combination is often heralded for its defensive prowess, resisting every type in the game between the two of them. And yes, while that is very helpful in an offensive core, it is not nearly as necessary as it usually is when selecting your defensive core. The reason the combo is so formidable is because one pokemon helps the other by eliminating its counters, in this case Magnezone trapping and destroying and Steel type that comes in to try and wall Salamence's attacks. Bronzong coming in on your Dragon Dance to take the Outrage? No problem, let Magnezone take the Gyro Ball and finish off Bronzong with a Thunderbolt. A Scizor coming in to revenge kill Mence while it's weak? Simply let Magnezone eat the Bullet Punch and take it from there. The fact that the two can toggle between each other to resist each other's weaknesses just helps make the combination even more effective, and the Salazone strategy is a very good core around which one can use as the heart of your offense.
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Offensive combos work in many ways - trapping, luring, baiting, etc. Or there could simply be two sweepers who between the two of them can take out the entire metagame. As long as they can work together in some way and gain something for the team as a whole, they are an offensive combo. And it doesn't necessarily have to be just 2 pokemon - 3 and even 4 pokemon offensive cores are all very effective. Just like the best defensive combinations aren't usually simply 2 pokemon, but rather more, so the offensive combos work in a similar way. Just don't go posting whole teams, yah? =P

There are many, many excellent combos out there that can wreak havoc upon opposing teams. It's simply our job to find them and utilise them best. Well guys, I hope we can get some interesting and innovative ideas rolling here. Who knows, we might come up with something new and groundbreaking! (feeble attempt at one of luxormaniac's speeches lol)

Anyway, post your ideas guys. Let's get some powerful offensive combos rolling.

LR.

 

[noob3]

I believe you mean Magnemence, not Salazone.

Gengar+Tyranitar

Gyrados+Jolteon

 

[Ninjarabian]

It's not really a 2 piece pair like that is, but I'm finding my DD Feraligatr (haha I no rite) and my CM Celebi to be a fairly decent offensive core, but they need 1 or 2 more sweepers. Maybe a Mixape would fit perfectly in there with them?

 

[Darkartisan]

Heatran and Gengar work effectively together. Gengar takes Fighting and ground moves, Heatran practically absorbs Dark and psychic moves.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Hmm, that's not really what I wanted to talk about in this thread to be honest. Darkartisan, in an offensive combo it doesn't matter if the two pokemon cover each other's weaknesses. Gengar takes Fighting and Ground attacks, Heatran takes Dark and Psychic moves. So what? They are both stopped cold by Blissey, Snorlax or a specially defensive Tyranitar. Not the best offensive combo to be honest.

However, if you expand on that, and say that Heatran is a BaitTran with Explosion to kill the Blissey switch in, then that would be a much better example of an offensive combo. They aren't as easy to rattle off as defensive ones are - they require a bit more thought and planning then that. Similarly, noob3, Jolteon and Gyarados what? Jolteon can take Electric attacks, Gyarados can take Ground attacks. That's nice, but how do they work together to beat the opposing team?

I'd like to see what your ideas are behind these combinations. It'd be nice if you guys expanded on what you've already posted and maybe write a paragraph or two on why and how they work together =).

Thanks,

LR.

 

[chenman333]

Also, Gengar can't take a surf or waterfall from anything.

Anyway, I've found a nice combo of pokemon:
LO Zapdos + Bulk Up Machamp

Yeah the type resists are only decent (Machamp resists rock...), but when Tyranitar, Flygon, and Blissey happen to be some of the biggest switch-ins to Zapdos these days, Machamp is a great switch in and can start bulking up and then Dynamic Punching everything that comes around. Or you can use Guts, that way you don't have to worry about the Rotom forms burning you. Machamp deals out punishing physical blows (and drives people nuts) while Zapdos is one of the best special attackers around with STAB T-bolt, Roost, and solid stats.

Throw dual screen up, and you have yourself a scary duo.

 

[Ninjarabian]

I see My Feraligatr and Celebi combination to be more an answering threats thing than great coverage. Usually Feraligatr is out, often behind double screens, and they send out Gyarados for the intimidate. Celebi switches in and Calm Minds up while they switch out or try to kill it with Ice Fang, which doesn't do all that much damage.

Actually the reason I put Celebi on the team in the first place was to deal with Vaporeon, who would switch in and completely wall my Feraligatr. He counters this nicely as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that of the most common Feraligatr (Gyarados) counters, most are at the very least checked by Celebi.

 

[Legacy Raider]

Also, Gengar can't take a surf or waterfall from anything.

Anyway, I've found a nice combo of pokemon:
LO Zapdos + Bulk Up Machamp

Yeah the type resists are only decent (Machamp resists rock...), but when Tyranitar, Flygon, and Blissey happen to be some of the biggest switch-ins to Zapdos these days, Machamp is a great switch in and can start bulking up and then Dynamic Punching everything that comes around. Or you can use Guts, that way you don't have to worry about the Rotom forms burning you. Machamp deals out punishing physical blows (and drives people nuts) while Zapdos is one of the best special attackers around with STAB T-bolt, Roost, and solid stats.

Throw dual screen up, and you have yourself a scary duo.

+

Nice, that sounds like a really good combo. I would actually stick with Guts as most people try to deal with Zapdos by paralysing it. One of Zapdos' main checks is Tyranitar after all, and Machamp deals with him like a beast. ResTalk Machamp (Guts, with Revenge as the primary Fighting move) and Roost Zapdos can also last quite a while, and would be a really cool combo to base a team around =).

I see My Feraligatr and Celebi combination to be more an answering threats thing than great coverage. Usually Feraligatr is out, often behind double screens, and they send out Gyarados for the intimidate. Celebi switches in and Calm Minds up while they switch out or try to kill it with Ice Fang, which doesn't do all that much damage.

Actually the reason I put Celebi on the team in the first place was to deal with Vaporeon, who would switch in and completely wall my Feraligatr. He counters this nicely as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is that of the most common Feraligatr (Gyarados) counters, most are at the very least checked by Celebi.

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<3 Feraligatr. Stealth Rock neutrality ftw. Calm Mind Celebi is really good as it can actually use some of Feraligatr's counters (Vaporeon, other Celebi, Jolteon, etc) as set up bait for itself to get some Calm Minds in. Similarly, Feraligatr should be able to take on things like Heatran and Tyranitar which would cause Celebi to squeal. They attack on different spectrums as well so they should be able to get through most opposing wall combinations. A bit susceptible to a specially defensive Scizor though, unless you run HP Fire on the Celebi.

Speaking of Scizor, here's another combination for you:

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Lucario @ Choice Specs
Timid - Inner Focus
4 HP, 252 SpA, 252 Spe

- Aura Sphere
- Dark Pulse
- HP Rock
- Vacuum Wave

+

Scizor @ Leftovers
Adamant - Technician
252 HP, 76 Atk, 176 SpD, 4 Spe

- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break
- Roost

It may seem familiar, and that's because one of my most successful teams was based on this very combo. SpecsLuke serves as a great lure for some of SD Scizor's counter. Rotom switches into the expected Fighting move only to get OHKOed by a Dark Pulse instead. Salamence, Gyarados or Zapdos coming into the Close Combat only to get nailed with a super effective HP Rock. Aura Sphere also one hits things like Skarmory and Forretress, which otherwise get in Scizor's way. Once Scizor's (and Lucario's in most cases) main counter is removed, it's an easy matter for the bulky set to SD up (setting up on things like Vaporeon, Starmie, Swampert and non-SD Gliscor) and sweep the rest of the team. They both use STAB priority on different spectrums, which can be of a real help in taking out weakened faster foes.

Of course, they aren't the best defensive pair, but that doesn't mean that they are any less effective. The team I used them on kept me in the top 10 for over a week. Just goes to show you that you don't need to cover each other's weaknesses perfectly to be an effective offensive combo.
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LR.

 

[Brawley]

Tyranitar + Lucario and my most favorite gyarados+tyranitar

 

[Thorns]

Flygon + Zapdos, anyone? They hit hard from both ends of the spectrum, Flygon can go mixed, and they complement each other well (save the common Ice weak)

 

[Ninjarabian]

amazingly I do run a HP fire Celebi, I have one ingame awaiting hack test.

HP Fire, Energy Ball, Calm Mind, Recover

 

[sora13]

Also, Gengar can't take a surf or waterfall from anything.

Anyway, I've found a nice combo of pokemon:
LO Zapdos + Bulk Up Machamp

Yeah the type resists are only decent (Machamp resists rock...), but when Tyranitar, Flygon, and Blissey happen to be some of the biggest switch-ins to Zapdos these days, Machamp is a great switch in and can start bulking up and then Dynamic Punching everything that comes around. Or you can use Guts, that way you don't have to worry about the Rotom forms burning you. Machamp deals out punishing physical blows (and drives people nuts) while Zapdos is one of the best special attackers around with STAB T-bolt, Roost, and solid stats.

Throw dual screen up, and you have yourself a scary duo.

I use this combo and I have to say, it's one of the best comboes I've ever used.

 

[Arcticblast]

Didn't Luxormaniac create a thread like this one?

 

[Legacy Raider]

Luxormaniac was looking for defensive combos, namely things like SkarmBliss and CeleTran. This thread is devoted to the offensive side of things, and while the combos may look similar, if you read all the posts you'll find it's a lot harder to make offensive combos than it is to make defensive ones. Totally different factors and process.

ps. I'm going to edit this post later with a nice detailed description of the Latias + Magnezone + Machamp combo I've been testing.

LR.

 

[chenman333]

How do we not have:

Scizor+Heatran (just about any kinds will do)

Fairly obvious; Scizor draws fire attacks like a magnet and Heatran takes the boost and proceeds to kick ass with a flash fire boosted STAB fire attack. SpecsTran can take advantage with the ability to 2hko Bliss with Fire Blast or kill just about everything with Overheat, while SubSalac can get a +1 attack boost and a +1 speed boost for some great sweeping. Meanwhile, SD scizor has the ability to set up on bulky waters and possibly Blissey (or smack her with superpower), while the CB one can smack stuff around with x-scissors and superpowers. Pretty solid combo, and we see it everywhere for a reason. It makes sense.

Mamoswine+Magnezone (most kinds are good, maybe Scarf/Specs Zone with LO Mamo)

Okay, so they share a big weakness to fire and fighting, but they are too good at killing stuff to not be used because of that. Mamoswine is utterly pwned by many steels, notably scizor, zong, skarm, and forry. So we just send in good ol Magnezone to pop a t-bolt or hp fire up their ass. Then, Mamo is free to rampage with STAB earthquake, stone edge, and ice shard, and some other move. Really, they are quite effective, especially since jolly mamo can actually outspeed quite a lot of pokemon and deal big damage. But obviously the shared weakness can be rather bad. Maybe throw in Mence in there, since he resists their weaks :D

Magnezone pairs really well with many pokemon; most of the dragons and basically anything that is walled by steels. Quite an awesome pokemon.

Baitran works very well with most Specs users, since blowing away Blissey means that big specs users can start throwing their supercharged attacks around.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

covering every weakness is pointless when the opponent has the 2 moves youre weak to on one pokemon.

"salamence and magnezone cover each other well"

okay, let's let mamoswine take 11 attacks to self-ko itself with life orb. have fun with that.

why do we even have this thread. you use a team of 6 pokemon to win anyways, not 2.

 

[Super]

Since good teams are not 6 random pokes together, it's good to detail how they work together. To me, that's what this thread is for, thinking up pokemon that work well together. Very often in the team planning process, if you're building a team around, say, a pokemon or 2, it's good to think about these kinds of processes.

Also, the topic creator was not talking about every weakness, just good supporters. Getting into your 6 pokemon comment, a 3rd one can be used to deal with stuff those two can't.

It is very hard to make a team without thinking of stuff like this. This thread is basically covering teams within teams, pretty much.

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

that is untrue. dp has some many threats and options that you really can put together 6 pokemon and actually win. seeing as how no team can cover every single threat, any given team could beat any other given team. there is no way for anything to go as to plan every single time, such as how no one is undefeated. battling has a lot of factors in it, while team is important, the usage and execution of a 'lesser' team could win out. hell we can maximize luck to the fullest. no team can have a guaranteed chance to win a team of 6 random pokes all with thunder wave and swagger etc etc etc.

okay and if 2 pokemon can't counter something, we add in a third. oh look, that opens up another weakness. then we go to patch that up. oh gee, we just basically made up a complete team. it seems as if people are in team building-block and want some inspiration, which is the only explanation a topic such as this would even arise. just look in the rmt forum if you want to see what a team can do =/

 

[Steinhauser]

This is the best baiting combo I've ever used.

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Scizor @ Occa Berry
Technician
Careful
84 HP / 252 SpD / 172 Spe
- Agility
- Light Screen
- Baton Pass
- Bullet Punch

Rhyperior @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Solid Rock
Jolly
252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge / Rock Slide
- Megahorn / Substitute
- Swords Dance / Substitute

Scizor lures in a lot of common counters: Heatran, Zapdos, Rotom-h and Magnezone are the big ones. Even better, though, is that this one stays in on opponents like T-tar, Salamence, Blissey and Celebi who expect to OHKO with a Fire attack.

Agility turn 1 as a counter is swapped in or a weakened fire attack is thrown carelessly your way. Light Screen turn 2 if you can, then pass on the next incoming fire attack. Scizor's EVs allow it to take a SpecsTran Flamethrower or ScarfTran Fire Blast, and it outspeeds ScarfTran after an agility.

With a screen up and in a Sandstorm, you are almost guaranteed a Swords Dance. To give some measure of durability, 0 SpA Celebi fails to OHKO with Grass Knot, dealing a peasley maximum of 91%. Surfs from regular bulky waters deal about 50% on average.

After a Swords Dance, you'll be 2HKOing Skarm with Leftovers Stone Edge or Life Orb Rock Slide. Pretty much everything else is at least 2HKO'd, and you have (I believe) complete coverage with your three moves.

Gyarados, Skarmory, Hippowdon and Swampert cause the combo some problems, so make sure you have an alternate passee - Zapdos, Suicune, Starmie, Celebi all work, provided you don't get phazed.

 

[Veedrock]

Ugh, I'm feeling pretty bad right now so I can't contribute much at the moment.

However, I would like to throw out that Scarf Magneton (which I happen to run) can be just as fast (maybe a few points lower, but to no loss) and can actually be more powerful than its mutated elder because it can run a + SpA nature (and if you're looking for -SpD, it's Rash). The drawback is that you're not as bulky, but I haven't found any specific examples where a 2HKO for 'Ton would be a 3HKO for 'Zone or anything similar. A 2HKO for one is a 2HKO for the other (if you find any examples of otherwise, let me know). Explosion is also weaker but it's @#$%ing explosion, nobody'll know the difference.

Just throwing it out there incase somebody would like to run SalaTon with extra power (not to mention that people flip when they see an NFE).


EDIT: @Scizor + Rhyperior. With Rhyperior's already massive Attack stat, I would probably pump SpD instead of Atk. With Sandstorm and some SpD, it can shrug off pretty much anything well (regarless of light screen), grass attacks included.

 

[TeaBag]

Veedrock, max / max+ Magnezone is one speed point faster than max+ / max Magneton, so you lose against opposing Magnezone lol.

 

[Veedrock]

Veedrock, max / max+ Magnezone is one speed point faster than max+ / max Magneton, so you lose against opposing Magnezone lol.

And you're trying to kill other Magnes with him...why? lol You should (hopefully) be using something else, such as Dugtrio or Swampert. :P

 

[wildfire393]

My current favorite combination is MixKiss + BukyGyara. MixKiss takes down the fragile sweepers that can end Gyarados's sweeps and stands a decent chance of eliminating some of the peskier walls. Gyarados takes care of the bulkier sweepers and the like that try to set up. But usually I find after MixKiss does its number on the opposing team, Gyarados can make a clean sweep.

 

[Steinhauser]

EDIT: @Scizor + Rhyperior. With Rhyperior's already massive Attack stat, I would probably pump SpD instead of Atk. With Sandstorm and some SpD, it can shrug off pretty much anything well (regarless of light screen), grass attacks included.

This is a good idea. 2 SDs with 4 Atk EVs outdamages 1 SD with 252 Atk EVs. However, with 4 EVs I would miss out on KOs vs really bulky Gyarados with +1 Rock Slide, or most other Dos with -1 Rock Slide, who will always OHKO back with Waterfall. (Stone Edge's accuracy doesn't sit well with me on a finisher-sweeper.) I will have to work further on an ideal EV distribution.

 

[Twisted Kneebar]

SD Facade + Flame Orb heracross w/facade + sd luke.

heracross takes out his counters (which are similiar to lucarios) with facade and prety much dent the team and open up a sd. with SR you got yourself a can of kick ass.