obi
formerly david stone
This particular point isn't a matter of opinion, but a matter of definition. To say that there is a higher standard for "faithful to the game" than the game itself is to say that if you want to judge a person's actions, you should judge something other than their actions. "To find out how much something costs, don't look at its price, tell me what color it is.". It simply makes no sense.How? That is my opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong.
In what way? Telling me I'm wrong without explaining why is like a car giving a "general car fault" warning light and saying nothing else. It's possible that it's true, but completely useless. Please tell me the specific point that you believe is incorrect. Am I assuming a false premise or am I making an invalid logical leap?YOU. ARE. WRONG.
That sounds a lot like this statement, that you made in that paragraph:Nowhere in that paragraph do I say that we should implement anything where intent is not 100% known.
Those two statements appear to be identical.Only when intent is 100% clear and obvious would I depart from what is in the game.
The point is that if you accept Karen's argument as the basis of Pokemon itself, then you have to reject tiering Pokemon. You also have to reject breeding Pokemon, because you should care for all Pokemon equally. There is nothing that is against the spirit of Pokemon more than throwing out a Pokemon because it doesn't have good enough genetics. That is really the strongest message in all of Pokemon.I do give you that much. However, I don't believe that this issue is a matter of competitive vs. anti-competitive. To me, this strikes at the very heart of what Pokemon (NOT competitive Pokemon) is all about. This glitch isn't anti-competitive; it's anti-Pokemon, and I don't want anything anti-Pokemon in my game of Pokemon.
But competitive balance as Smogon defines it is. If we follow the message of the game, it shouldn't matter if they're using a Garchomp and a Manaphy. Just train Pikachu hard enough and trust in the power of friendship, and you'll prevail.Competitive balance isn't anti-Pokemon, IMO. Pure Pokemon is, for the most part, anti-competitive, thus we need to set rules to maintain competitive balance in order to make it more competitive. Without this, Smogon has no purpose for being.
How is it pedantic nonsense? It seems to me that talking about developer intent is pretty important when that is the heart of virtually all opposition to my position.Can we stop being pedantic and get to the heart of the debate instead of arguing over such nonsense?
I proposed a solution in my post. I would like you guys to comment on it.
I've already rejected your 'solution'. Changing game mechanics is not the best option we have.
Doug is not the sole arbiter of the code of Shoddybattle. It's a free and open-source project. Any one with the ability and desire to edit the code can do so. If someone else were to code a fix for this bug (the bug being that Shoddybattle does not accurately simulate game mechanics), then I would expect Doug to add this update to the server at the next server reset, same as any other bug fix.Due to the possible loop any suggestion could start, I say the best course of action is to have Doug decide upon the final coding. Rather than wasting our time, it's quicker if he decides whether to put it on or not. If he says no then we can drop the whole thing, because obviously we can't force Doug into doing something he doesn't want. If he says yes then we'll just have to live with the glitch and the way he sets it up. We're simply not progressing at all.
We don't need to know the effects at all to decide whether, as a matter of policy, we're going to ignore the game.I'm going to have to agree with Elevator Music here. We need to wait it out until we know all of the "effects of this glitch" before we make action. Right now it seems the only thing we can do is just ignore it until we now how it will effect the metagame, and as stated before and above all the effects. He also brought up a great point about how this could and most likely compromise the most recent suspect tests, and maybe even the tests before it.
I'm just quoting this because it's probably the most important point in this thread. To not add this glitch as a matter of policy is to say you cannot play competitive Pokemon in a Pokemon game.I still don't like doing that though since it's basically saying "it is impossible to play standard competitive pokemon using a pokemon game cartridge", which to me just seems ridiculous regardless of developer intent or any of that nonsense.