Empoleon (Analysis)

[Plasma.EXE]

I've found Balloon Empoleon to be a pretty good check/revenge killer to Excadrill.

I particularly use it on the Specially defensive set, but you need to invest in some EV's to reach 280+ special attack (or somewhere around their) cause 269 special attack fails to OH-KO Exca with surf unless you have life orb or torrent activated. A lot of people will sword dance you or try to earthquake you for the kill or a switch, but Empoleon can switch in safely as long as they aren't using any other attack and avoid a 1 hit kill after a sword dance from Excadrill. In the case they don't have any threatening earthquake users pokemon, you can at least set up stealth rocks and phaze when needed without taking too much damage. Might be better on other Empoleon sets, but I use it on that one because its not hard to switch in Empoleon to set-up with hazards and phaze pokemon who use substitute and does its job either way. Haven't tried it on the sword dance set yet, but I'm sure Empoleon needs to reach that same attack bench-mark or carry a life orb and one hit kill with water fall.

 

[ParaChomp]

I've found Balloon Empoleon to be a pretty good check/revenge killer to Excadrill.

I particularly use it on the Specially defensive set, but you need to invest in some EV's to reach 280+ special attack (or somewhere around their) cause 269 special attack fails to OH-KO Exca with surf unless you have life orb or torrent activated. A lot of people will sword dance you or try to earthquake you for the kill or a switch, but Empoleon can switch in safely as long as they aren't using any other attack and avoid a 1 hit kill after a sword dance from Excadrill. In the case they don't have any threatening earthquake users pokemon, you can at least set up stealth rocks and phaze when needed without taking too much damage. Might be better on other Empoleon sets, but I use it on that one because its not hard to switch in Empoleon to set-up with hazards and phaze pokemon who use substitute and does its job either way. Haven't tried it on the sword dance set yet, but I'm sure Empoleon needs to reach that same attack bench-mark or carry a life orb and one hit kill with water fall.

And remove Empoleon's ability to take hits? I think not but I'll give this mention in the optional changes.

 

[Iconic]

Upon the suggestion of my colleague, Bloo, I would like to see Sleep Talk de-slashed from the Choice Specs set. Barring this change, consider Empoleon -- approved.

QC Approved 1/3

 

[Bloo]

QC APPROVED (2/3)

EDIT: SDS: I'm fine with a Balloon slash on the offensive set.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Considering Balloon on the Offensive set. Thoughts?

 

[Moo]

It is viable and could help Empoleon get an Agility up. Although it needs to outspeed Excadrill after an Agility to be useful IMO.

Edit: It doesnt get near Excadrill's Speed. But I suppose you could OHKO as it pops the balloon.

 

[PK Gaming]

You know what they say, all toasters toast toast!
QC APPROVED (3/3)

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I think the Specs set should be removed, but it doesn't matter, the checks are given.

Balloon should be considered as well in my opinion.

 

[Bugbot]

Once again suggesting better EV spreads.

Change Agility set from 12 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 240 Spe to
16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe. You won't need those 4 Def EVs and you want an odd HP number for Spikes / Life Orb.

Choice Specs set from 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe to
248 HP / 252 SpA / 8 Spe. You will be switching in/out very often, so you want to minimalize the total of damage taken from Spikes.

Those, once again, aren't much, but an analysis should always have the best spread possible. Great analysis.

 

[supermarth64]

If you do make those changes, make sure to mention that the extra residual damage only occurs when there is 2 or 3 layers of Spikes that Empoleon is switching in on, otherwise it won't take any extra from SR/1 layer of Spikes.

 

[ParaChomp]

Thank you so much everybody. I have a few things to do but consider this typed up in at least 3 days.

 

[Cherub Agent]

Mention how Empoleon with Grass Knot is the ultimate Shell Smash Cloyster counter, resisting every move it could possibly carry

 

[ParaChomp]

Mention how Empoleon with Grass Knot is the ultimate Shell Smash Cloyster counter, resisting every move it could possibly carry

I would put that in the Cloyster thread to be honest.

 

[Cherub Agent]

why not here? Cloyster is very common, and it's just another reason for people to use empoleon, who is quite rare

 

[muzillu]

Air Balloon Empoleon

I would just like to give my opinion regarding 5th Gen Empoleon.

I run an Air Balloon Empoleon as an anti-lead, and he's very effective. I gave him a Relaxed nature with no EVs on Speed and the rest of the EVs are reasonably spread out. Tell me what you think of this set:

Ability: Torrent

Moveset:

Scald
Flash Cannon
Ice Beam
Aqua Jet

Flash Cannon is used to dispatch Pokemon like Weavile and Cloyster quickly. It also adds STAB and may lower Sp. Def. This Empoleon only has two weaknesses: Fighting and Electric. The Fighting types are dealt with a Ghost-type teammate while the Electric types are disposed of by teammates such as Haxorus or Tyranitar.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I would just like to give my opinion regarding 5th Gen Empoleon.

I run an Air Balloon Empoleon as an anti-lead, and he's very effective. I gave him a Relaxed nature with no EVs on Speed and the rest of the EVs are reasonably spread out. Tell me what you think of this set:

Ability: Torrent

Moveset:

Scald
Flash Cannon
Ice Beam
Aqua Jet

Flash Cannon is used to dispatch Pokemon like Weavile and Cloyster quickly. It also adds STAB and may lower Sp. Def. This Empoleon only has two weaknesses: Fighting and Electric. The Fighting types are dealt with a Ghost-type teammate while the Electric types are disposed of by teammates such as Haxorus or Tyranitar.

You might want to take a look around the forums next time to know exactly what's going on in the competitive game and know how the process works for writing these up. As of now, dedicated leads such as Anti-leads are no longer effective this generation. The analysis for Empoleon is being written up and no more seperate sets are usually added at this stage. Also, be sure to give better reasons for some of your choices, like the moves and nature for example (also be sure to provide EVs). But welcome to Smogon by the way.

 

[muzillu]

Empoleon

You misunderstood me, Aerodactyl Legend. First of all, I disagree with you that anti-leads are not effective anymore. Secondly, I HAVE taken a look at the forums. This was not an attempt at an entire Empoleon analysis, it was just a suggestion on my part and another opinion. I just added to what was already said. You did not need to be so condescending.

 

[GtM]

You misunderstood me, Aerodactyl Legend. First of all, I disagree with you that anti-leads are not effective anymore. Secondly, I HAVE taken a look at the forums. This was not an attempt at an entire Empoleon analysis, it was just a suggestion on my part and another opinion. I just added to what was already said. You did not need to be so condescending.

These analyses are geared towards Wifi, where each player can see the opponent's pokémon and re-arrange their own accordingly. This largely defeats the point of leads if the opponent can simply switch to a counter before the match starts. By extension, anti-leads are somewhat invalidated since if the opponent spots an Empoleon lead and assumes correctly that it's an anti-lead, they'll switch to Blissey or something which can counter it.

Looking at your set, both Weavile and Cloyster are rare, especially as leads. Not to mention that Steel moves have pretty terrible offensive coverage, and thus Flash Cannon should be replaced with something more useful like Grass Knot. Scald is unnecessary on an offensive set where you're aiming to do as much damage as possible, so Surf or Hydro Pump are preferable.

 

[muzillu]

OK then, so I guess my Empoleon is more of a lead than an anti-lead, since he is meant to be defensive, rather than offensive. I find him to be a particularly effective lead due to his relatively few weaknesses. I did not find Grass Knot useful much since common annoying leads such as Politoed are not heavy and are therefore not damaged much by Grass Knot. What about using Toxic? Btw, from my experience it's not uncommon to face a Weavile lead.

 

[ParaChomp]

Empoleon is ready for Grammar Checks!

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

You misunderstood me, Aerodactyl Legend. First of all, I disagree with you that anti-leads are not effective anymore. Secondly, I HAVE taken a look at the forums. This was not an attempt at an entire Empoleon analysis, it was just a suggestion on my part and another opinion. I just added to what was already said. You did not need to be so condescending.

Sorry if I sounded like I directly assumed you didn't take a look around (my mistake for not making it clear). Let me assure you though, I was not being condescending at all. I shouldn't of taken it like you were trying to submit a set into it though.

GtM is right though about the style of lead that set is. Anti Leads use specific moves and strategies to either cripple, stop, or KO any opposing leads they come across. They use Fake Out, counters, priority moves, Focus Sash, etc. Your set is more of a mixed attacking lead.

You misunderstood me, Aerodactyl Legend. First of all, I disagree with you that anti-leads are not effective anymore. Secondly, I HAVE taken a look at the forums. This was not an attempt at an entire Empoleon analysis, it was just a suggestion on my part and another opinion. I just added to what was already said. You did not need to be so condescending.

Sorry if I sounded like I directly assumed you didn't take a look around (my mistake for not making it clear). Let me assure you though, I was not being condescending at all. I shouldn't of taken it like you were trying to submit a set into it though.

GtM is right though about the style of lead that set is. Anti Leads use specific moves and strategies to either cripple, stop, or KO any opposing leads they come across. They use Fake Out, counters, priority moves, Focus Sash, etc. Your set is more of a mixed attacking lead.

*Edit*

Still looks like work needs to be done on this though.

Just to test myself, I did a small check on just the overview.

[Overview]


<p>Another generation has arrived, and for some returning Pokemon, it has been amazing. Then, there are those who cannot keep up with the new threats that has shown up. Empoleon is of the latter because, aside from a few minor additions to its movepool, nothing much has changed for it. It also has to contend with the many new Ground and Fighting types that dominate the standard game. None the less, Empoleon still possesses well distributed stats and many resistances that can be key components on a competitive team that is built to support it.</p>

</p>

Add
Remove

Like bmb said below, add to your comments because not all necessary information is there.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Empoleon is ready for Grammar Checks!

Your comments seem somewhat lacking at the moment; you have not even included teammates under the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] tag. Furthermore the separate Team Options section no longer exists.

Oh and you also need to get the analysis on the GP queue before it is ready to be checked.

 

[ParaChomp]

Your comments seem somewhat lacking at the moment; you have not even included teammates under the [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] tag. Furthermore the separate Team Options section no longer exists.

Oh and you also need to get the analysis on the GP queue before it is ready to be checked.

Okay, I'll fix that up.

Now I'm ready for GP queues!

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Thanks for using my suggestion by the ways.

Then, there are those who cannot keep up with the new threats that have shown up.

I messed up on that part.

Now that I can see the whole paragraph in the analysis itself, wonder if I did the sentence after that one right.

 

[ParaChomp]

Bumping for GP queues!