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Equal BST Metagame

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by zyrefredric, Apr 18, 2012.

  1. zyrefredric

    zyrefredric

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2008
    Messages:
    524
    Finally, we can all play this meta! Those who want to try their hand at it, head over here http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/~~dusk209.no-ip.org/lobby.

    Choose Equal BST in the format. Also, when you are using the teambuilder, the changed stats are no reflected, but it does work. You can check out the new stats here. https://public.sheet.zoho.com/public/zyrefredric/equal-bst-metagame-1.


    [​IMG] VS [​IMG]

    There are many reasons why the above match-up would never happen in a competitive scene. The two differ in typing, abilities, base stat distribution, movepool, and most importantly, base stat total or BST. Arceus currently has the highest BST of 720, while Sunkern has the lowest of only 180. All other Pokemon's BST falls in between these values. The pair above is the extreme, but I'd argue that base stat total is THE biggest determining factor that makes or breaks a Pokemon. Out of 600+ Pokemon, around only a third is usable simply because of this huge difference in BST. What if all Pokemon have the same BST while retaining all its other aspects?

    This is what "Equal BST Metagame" is all about. Each Pokemon's stats were recalculated such that all of them will have the same BST. This is how it was done:
    • Each of the Pokemon's stats are multiplied by (720/BST).
    • Since this makes some stats greater than 255 (which is the highest a stat could ever be), with Chansey having a base HP stat of 400, all stats are then multiplied by (255/400), and then rounded off.
    • When the new BST's were calculated, they range from 457 to 462, with 459 as the median. To make them all of the same BST, the HP stat is adjusted to get a final BST of 459 for all Pokemon.
    • Below are the stats. They're also in this spreadsheet.

    Show Hide
    Bulbasaur: 64-71-71-94-94-65
    Ivysaur: 68-70-71-91-91-68
    Venusaur: 70-72-73-87-87-70
    Charmander: 58-77-64-89-74-97
    Charmeleon: 64-73-66-91-74-91
    Charizard: 67-72-67-94-73-86
    Squirtle: 64-70-95-73-94-63
    Wartortle: 66-71-91-74-91-66
    Blastoise: 67-72-87-74-91-68
    Caterpie: 106-71-82-47-47-106
    Metapod: 112-45-123-56-56-67
    Butterfree: 72-54-60-95-95-83
    Weedle: 94-82-71-47-47-118
    Kakuna: 101-56-112-56-56-78
    Beedrill: 78-95-48-54-95-89
    Pidgey: 74-82-73-64-64-102
    Pidgeotto: 83-79-72-66-66-93
    Pidgeot: 81-78-73-69-69-89
    Rattata: 55-102-63-45-63-131
    Raticate: 60-90-67-56-78-108
    Spearow: 70-105-53-54-54-123
    Fearow: 68-93-68-63-63-104
    Ekans: 55-96-70-64-86-88
    Arbok: 63-89-72-68-83-84
    Pikachu: 53-84-46-77-61-138
    Raichu: 58-87-53-87-77-97
    Sandshrew: 76-115-130-31-46-61
    Sandslash: 77-102-112-46-56-66
    Nidoran?: 92-78-87-67-67-68
    Nidorina: 89-78-84-69-69-70
    Nidoqueen: 83-76-81-70-79-70
    Nidoran?: 78-96-67-67-67-84
    Nidorino: 76-91-72-69-69-82
    Nidoking: 75-85-71-79-70-79
    Clefairy: 100-64-68-85-92-50
    Clefable: 93-68-71-82-87-58
    Vulpix: 58-63-61-77-100-100
    Ninetales: 66-69-68-74-91-91
    Jigglypuff: 194-77-34-77-43-34
    Wigglytuff: 150-76-49-81-54-49
    Zubat: 75-84-66-56-75-103
    Golbat: 74-81-71-66-76-91
    Oddish: 64-72-79-108-93-43
    Gloom: 70-76-81-99-87-46
    Vileplume: 71-77-81-96-86-48
    Paras: 56-113-89-72-89-40
    Parasect: 67-108-91-68-91-34
    Venonat: 90-83-75-60-83-68
    Venomoth: 71-66-61-92-77-92
    Diglett: 17-95-43-61-78-165
    Dugtrio: 39-91-57-57-79-136
    Meowth: 65-71-55-63-63-142
    Persian: 67-73-63-68-68-120
    Psyduck: 71-75-69-93-72-79
    Golduck: 74-75-72-87-73-78
    Mankey: 60-120-53-53-68-105
    Primeape: 64-106-61-61-71-96
    Growlithe: 71-92-59-92-66-79
    Arcanine: 74-91-66-83-66-79
    Poliwag: 61-77-61-61-61-138
    Poliwhirl: 78-77-77-60-60-107
    Poliwrath: 83-78-87-64-83-64
    Abra: 38-30-22-155-81-133
    Kadabra: 47-40-34-138-80-120
    Alakazam: 52-47-42-126-80-112
    Machop: 105-120-75-53-53-53
    Machoke: 91-113-79-57-68-51
    Machamp: 82-118-73-59-77-50
    Bellsprout: 76-115-54-107-46-61
    Weepinbell: 76-106-59-100-53-65
    Victreebel: 77-100-62-96-57-67
    Tentacool: 54-55-48-69-137-96
    Tentacruel: 72-62-58-71-107-89
    Geodude: 61-122-153-46-46-31
    Graveler: 65-112-135-53-53-41
    Golem: 75-104-123-52-62-43
    Ponyta: 55-95-62-73-73-101
    Rapidash: 61-92-64-73-73-96
    Slowpoke: 131-95-95-58-58-22
    Slowbro: 89-70-103-94-75-28
    Magnemite: 35-49-99-134-78-64
    Magneton: 50-59-94-118-69-69
    Farfetch'd: 67-85-72-76-81-78
    Doduo: 51-126-67-52-52-111
    Dodrio: 59-110-70-60-60-100
    Seel: 90-64-78-64-99-64
    Dewgong: 86-68-77-68-92-68
    Grimer: 113-113-71-56-71-35
    Muk: 96-96-69-60-92-46
    Shellder: 45-98-150-68-38-60
    Cloyster: 45-83-157-74-39-61
    Gastly: 45-52-44-148-52-118
    Haunter: 51-57-51-130-62-108
    Gengar: 55-60-55-119-69-101
    Onix: 41-54-191-36-54-83
    Drowzee: 84-67-63-60-126-59
    Hypno: 81-69-67-69-109-64
    Krabby: 43-148-127-35-35-71
    Kingler: 54-126-111-48-48-72
    Voltorb: 54-42-70-77-77-139
    Electrode: 56-48-67-77-77-134
    Exeggcute: 85-56-113-85-64-56
    Exeggutor: 84-84-75-110-57-49
    Cubone: 72-72-136-57-72-50
    Marowak: 65-86-119-54-86-49
    Hitmonlee: 51-121-53-35-111-88
    Hitmonchan: 50-106-80-35-111-77
    Lickitung: 107-66-89-72-89-36
    Koffing: 54-88-128-81-61-47
    Weezing: 61-84-112-80-66-56
    Rhyhorn: 107-113-126-40-40-33
    Rhydon: 98-123-114-43-43-38
    Chansey: 255-5-5-36-107-51
    Tangela: 69-58-121-106-42-63
    Kangaskhan: 99-89-75-37-75-84
    Horsea: 47-62-109-109-39-93
    Seadra: 57-68-99-99-47-89
    Goldeen: 65-96-86-50-72-90
    Seaking: 82-94-66-66-82-69
    Staryu: 40-61-74-95-74-115
    Starmie: 53-66-75-88-75-102
    Mr. Mime: 39-45-65-100-120-90
    Scyther: 66-101-73-50-73-96
    Jynx: 66-50-35-116-96-96
    Electabuzz: 61-78-53-89-80-98
    Magmar: 60-88-53-93-79-86
    Pinsir: 60-115-92-50-64-78
    Tauros: 70-94-89-37-66-103
    Magikarp: 46-23-126-34-46-184
    Gyarados: 81-106-67-51-85-69
    Lapras: 111-73-69-73-82-51
    Ditto: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Eevee: 76-78-71-64-92-78
    Vaporeon: 114-57-52-96-83-57
    Jolteon: 57-57-52-96-83-114
    Flareon: 57-114-52-83-96-57
    Porygon: 76-70-81-99-87-46
    Omanyte: 46-52-129-116-71-45
    Omastar: 64-56-116-107-65-51
    Kabuto: 40-103-116-71-58-71
    Kabutops: 56-107-97-60-65-74
    Aerodactyl: 71-94-58-53-67-116
    Snorlax: 135-94-55-55-94-26
    Articuno: 72-67-79-75-99-67
    Zapdos: 72-71-67-99-71-79
    Moltres: 72-79-71-99-67-71
    Dratini: 61-98-69-77-77-77
    Dragonair: 65-92-71-77-77-77
    Dragonite: 68-103-73-77-77-61
    Mewtwo: 71-74-61-104-61-88
    Mew: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Chikorita: 64-71-94-71-94-65
    Bayleef: 68-70-91-71-91-68
    Meganium: 70-72-87-73-87-70
    Cyndaquil: 58-77-64-89-74-97
    Quilava: 64-73-66-91-74-91
    Typhlosion: 67-72-67-94-73-86
    Totodile: 73-95-94-64-70-63
    Croconaw: 73-91-91-67-71-66
    Feraligatr: 73-91-87-68-72-68
    Sentret: 74-98-73-75-96-43
    Furret: 93-84-71-50-61-100
    Hoothoot: 104-53-53-63-98-88
    Noctowl: 103-52-52-79-100-73
    Ledyba: 69-35-52-69-139-95
    Ledian: 65-41-59-65-129-100
    Spinarak: 75-110-73-73-73-55
    Ariados: 82-106-82-71-71-47
    Crobat: 72-77-69-60-69-112
    Chinchou: 104-53-53-78-78-93
    Lanturn: 124-58-58-76-76-67
    Pichu: 45-90-34-78-78-134
    Cleffa: 104-53-59-95-116-32
    Igglybuff: 196-66-33-87-44-33
    Togepi: 66-37-122-75-122-37
    Togetic: 63-45-96-91-119-45
    Natu: 57-72-65-100-65-100
    Xatu: 64-73-68-93-68-93
    Mareep: 89-66-66-107-74-57
    Flaaffy: 88-69-69-101-75-57
    Ampharos: 82-69-69-106-83-50
    Bellossom: 71-77-81-86-96-48
    Marill: 128-37-92-37-92-73
    Azumarill: 111-56-90-56-90-56
    Sudowoodo: 77-112-129-34-73-34
    Politoed: 82-69-69-83-92-64
    Hoppip: 65-64-73-64-101-92
    Skiploom: 73-61-68-61-88-108
    Jumpluff: 77-56-71-56-87-112
    Aipom: 71-89-70-51-70-108
    Sunkern: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Sunflora: 82-81-59-113-92-32
    Yanma: 76-77-53-88-53-112
    Wooper: 120-98-98-55-55-33
    Quagsire: 102-91-91-69-69-37
    Espeon: 57-57-52-114-83-96
    Umbreon: 83-57-96-52-114-57
    Murkrow: 68-96-48-96-48-103
    Slowking: 89-70-75-94-103-28
    Misdreavus: 63-63-63-90-90-90
    Unown: 65-98-66-98-66-66
    Wobbuffet: 216-37-66-37-66-37
    Girafarig: 69-81-66-91-66-86
    Pineco: 80-103-142-55-55-24
    Forretress: 75-89-138-59-59-39
    Dunsparce: 111-77-77-72-72-50
    Gligar: 70-80-112-37-69-91
    Steelix: 66-77-180-50-59-27
    Snubbull: 92-122-77-61-61-46
    Granbull: 92-122-77-61-61-46
    Qwilfish: 69-101-80-59-59-91
    Scizor: 65-119-92-50-73-60
    Shuckle: 18-9-209-9-209-5
    Heracross: 73-115-69-37-87-78
    Sneasel: 59-101-59-37-80-123
    Teddiursa: 82-111-70-70-70-56
    Ursaring: 83-119-69-69-69-50
    Slugma: 74-73-73-129-73-37
    Magcargo: 55-56-134-90-90-34
    Swinub: 92-92-73-55-55-92
    Piloswine: 102-102-82-61-61-51
    Corsola: 66-66-103-79-103-42
    Remoraid: 54-99-54-99-54-99
    Octillery: 72-100-72-100-72-43
    Delibird: 62-77-63-90-63-104
    Mantine: 65-39-69-79-138-69
    Skarmory: 65-79-138-39-69-69
    Houndour: 63-83-42-111-70-90
    Houndoom: 69-83-46-101-73-87
    Kingdra: 63-81-81-81-81-72
    Phanpy: 125-83-83-56-56-56
    Donphan: 83-110-110-55-55-46
    Porygon2: 76-71-80-94-85-53
    Stantler: 72-94-61-84-64-84
    Smeargle: 100-37-64-37-83-138
    Tyrogue: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Hitmontop: 50-96-96-35-111-71
    Smoochum: 67-45-23-128-98-98
    Elekid: 58-80-47-83-70-121
    Magby: 57-94-47-88-69-104
    Miltank: 89-75-98-37-66-94
    Blissey: 215-9-9-64-115-47
    Raikou: 72-67-59-91-79-91
    Entei: 92-91-67-71-59-79
    Suicune: 80-59-91-71-91-67
    Larvitar: 75-98-77-69-77-63
    Pupitar: 79-94-78-73-78-57
    Tyranitar: 75-103-84-73-77-47
    Lugia: 71-61-88-61-104-74
    Ho-oh: 71-88-61-74-104-61
    Celebi: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Treecko: 59-67-52-96-81-104
    Grovyle: 56-74-51-96-74-108
    Sceptile: 60-74-56-91-74-104
    Torchic: 66-89-59-104-74-67
    Combusken: 69-96-68-96-68-62
    Blaziken: 69-104-61-95-61-69
    Mudkip: 74-104-74-74-74-59
    Marshtomp: 80-96-79-68-79-57
    Swampert: 87-94-77-73-77-51
    Poochyena: 72-115-73-63-63-73
    Mightyena: 75-98-77-66-66-77
    Zigzagoon: 74-57-78-57-78-115
    Linoone: 84-77-67-55-67-109
    Wurmple: 106-106-82-47-71-47
    Silcoon: 112-78-123-56-56-34
    Beautifly: 72-83-60-107-60-77
    Cascoon: 112-78-123-56-56-34
    Dustox: 72-60-83-60-107-77
    Lotad: 83-63-63-83-104-63
    Lombre: 79-68-68-81-95-68
    Ludicolo: 76-67-67-86-96-67
    Seedot: 83-83-104-63-63-63
    Nuzleaf: 94-95-54-81-54-81
    Shiftry: 86-96-57-86-57-77
    Taillow: 67-94-51-51-51-145
    Swellow: 65-91-64-53-53-133
    Wingull: 67-51-51-94-51-145
    Pelipper: 64-53-107-91-75-69
    Ralts: 65-58-58-104-81-93
    Kirlia: 62-58-58-107-91-83
    Gardevoir: 59-58-58-111-102-71
    Surskit: 68-51-55-85-89-111
    Masquerain: 76-67-69-89-91-67
    Shroomish: 95-62-93-62-93-54
    Breloom: 59-130-80-60-60-70
    Slakoth: 100-98-98-57-57-49
    Vigoroth: 85-83-83-57-57-94
    Slaking: 101-110-69-65-45-69
    Nincada: 53-78-155-52-52-69
    Ninjask: 62-91-45-50-50-161
    Shedinja: 2-175-88-58-58-78
    Whismur: 121-98-44-98-44-54
    Loudred: 106-91-55-91-55-61
    Exploud: 100-87-60-87-60-65
    Makuhita: 140-116-58-39-58-48
    Hariyama: 140-116-58-39-58-48
    Azurill: 121-48-97-48-97-48
    Nosepass: 37-55-165-55-110-37
    Skitty: 89-79-79-62-62-88
    Delcatty: 84-79-79-66-66-85
    Sableye: 59-91-91-79-79-60
    Mawile: 61-103-103-66-66-60
    Aron: 69-97-139-56-56-42
    Lairon: 65-96-149-53-53-43
    Aggron: 61-95-156-52-52-43
    Meditite: 49-66-90-66-90-98
    Medicham: 67-67-84-67-84-90
    Electrike: 63-70-62-101-62-101
    Manectric: 69-72-58-101-58-101
    Plusle: 68-57-45-96-85-108
    Minun: 68-45-57-85-96-108
    Volbeat: 74-84-63-54-86-98
    Illumise: 74-54-63-84-86-98
    Roselia: 56-69-52-115-92-75
    Gulpin: 106-65-81-65-81-61
    Swalot: 97-72-82-72-82-54
    Carvanha: 68-135-30-98-30-98
    Sharpedo: 69-120-40-95-40-95
    Wailmer: 150-80-40-80-40-69
    Wailord: 156-83-41-83-41-55
    Numel: 90-90-60-98-68-53
    Camerupt: 69-100-70-105-75-40
    Torkoal: 68-83-137-83-68-20
    Spoink: 84-35-49-97-111-83
    Grumpig: 79-44-63-88-107-78
    Spinda: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Trapinch: 72-158-71-71-71-16
    Vibrava: 65-95-68-68-68-95
    Flygon: 70-88-71-71-71-88
    Cacnea: 69-116-55-116-55-48
    Cacturne: 68-111-58-111-58-53
    Swablu: 67-59-89-59-111-74
    Altaria: 70-66-84-66-98-75
    Zangoose: 74-115-60-60-60-90
    Seviper: 74-100-60-100-60-65
    Lunatone: 73-57-68-99-89-73
    Solrock: 73-99-89-57-68-73
    Barboach: 79-77-69-73-65-96
    Whiscash: 106-77-72-75-70-59
    Corphish: 64-119-97-75-52-52
    Crawdaunt: 62-118-83-88-54-54
    Baltoy: 62-61-84-61-107-84
    Claydol: 56-64-96-64-110-69
    Lileep: 85-53-100-79-112-30
    Cradily: 80-75-90-75-99-40
    Anorith: 57-123-65-52-65-97
    Armaldo: 69-116-93-65-74-42
    Feebas: 46-34-46-23-126-184
    Milotic: 81-51-67-85-106-69
    Castform: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Kecleon: 62-94-73-63-125-42
    Shuppet: 69-117-54-98-51-70
    Banette: 63-116-66-84-64-66
    Duskull: 31-62-140-47-140-39
    Dusclops: 40-71-131-61-131-25
    Tropius: 98-68-83-72-87-51
    Chimecho: 70-54-76-103-86-70
    Absol: 65-128-59-74-59-74
    Wynaut: 166-41-85-41-85-41
    Snorunt: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Glalie: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Spheal: 111-63-79-87-79-40
    Sealeo: 102-67-78-84-78-50
    Walrein: 96-69-78-82-78-56
    Clamperl: 47-85-113-98-73-43
    Huntail: 53-98-99-89-71-49
    Gorebyss: 53-79-99-108-71-49
    Relicanth: 94-85-123-43-62-52
    Luvdisc: 59-42-77-56-90-135
    Bagon: 68-115-92-61-46-77
    Shelgon: 70-104-109-66-55-55
    Salamence: 73-103-61-84-61-77
    Beldum: 61-84-122-54-92-46
    Metang: 66-82-109-60-87-55
    Metagross: 61-103-99-73-69-54
    Regirock: 63-79-158-40-79-40
    Regice: 63-40-79-79-158-40
    Registeel: 63-59-119-59-119-40
    Latias: 62-61-69-84-99-84
    Latios: 62-69-61-99-84-84
    Kyogre: 67-69-62-103-96-62
    Groudon: 67-103-96-69-62-62
    Rayquaza: 71-101-61-101-61-64
    Jirachi: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Deoxys-A: 38-138-15-138-15-115
    Deoxys-N: 38-115-38-115-38-115
    Deoxys-S: 37-73-69-73-69-138
    Deoxys-D: 38-54-122-54-122-69
    Turtwig: 80-98-92-65-79-45
    W: 85-101-96-62-74-41
    Torterra: 83-95-92-66-74-49
    Chimchar: 66-86-65-86-65-91
    Monferno: 73-88-59-88-59-92
    Infernape: 66-89-61-89-61-93
    Piplup: 78-75-77-89-82-58
    Prinplup: 72-75-77-92-86-57
    Empoleon: 74-74-76-96-87-52
    Starly: 76-103-56-56-56-112
    Staravia: 74-101-68-54-54-108
    Staraptor: 82-116-68-48-48-97
    Bidoof: 109-83-73-64-73-57
    Bibarel: 89-95-67-62-67-79
    Kricketot: 88-59-97-59-97-59
    Kricketune: 91-102-61-66-61-78
    Shinx: 79-113-59-70-59-79
    Luxio: 76-107-62-76-62-76
    Luxray: 72-105-69-83-69-61
    Budew: 66-49-57-82-115-90
    Roserade: 54-64-50-114-95-82
    Cranidos: 89-164-52-39-39-76
    Rampardos: 90-153-56-60-46-54
    Shieldon: 40-55-155-55-115-39
    Bastiodon: 55-48-156-44-128-28
    Burmy: 83-59-92-59-92-74
    Wormadam-P: 64-64-92-86-114-39
    Wormadam-T: 64-75-103-75-103-39
    Wormadam-S: 64-86-114-64-92-39
    Mothim: 76-102-54-102-54-71
    Combee: 57-56-79-56-79-132
    Vespiquen: 68-77-99-77-99-39
    Pachirisu: 68-51-79-51-102-108
    Buizel: 77-90-49-83-42-118
    Floatzel: 79-97-51-79-46-107
    Cherubi: 77-58-75-103-88-58
    Cherrim: 71-61-71-89-80-87
    Shellos: 106-68-68-81-88-48
    Gastrodon: 107-80-66-89-79-38
    Ambipom: 71-95-63-57-63-110
    Drifloon: 119-66-45-79-58-92
    Drifblim: 137-74-41-83-50-74
    Buneary: 72-87-58-58-73-111
    Lopunny: 62-73-80-52-92-100
    Mismagius: 56-56-56-97-97-97
    Honchkrow: 91-114-47-95-47-65
    Glameow: 73-81-62-62-55-126
    Purugly: 72-83-65-65-60-114
    Chingling: 72-48-81-105-81-72
    Stunky: 88-88-66-57-57-103
    Skuntank: 100-89-64-68-58-80
    Bronzor: 86-37-132-37-132-35
    Bronzong: 62-82-106-73-106-30
    Bonsly: 79-127-150-16-71-16
    Mime Jr.: 29-37-67-104-133-89
    Happiny: 209-10-10-31-136-63
    Chatot: 84-73-50-103-47-102
    Spiritomb: 48-87-102-87-102-33
    Gible: 89-107-69-61-69-64
    Gabite: 75-101-73-56-62-92
    Garchomp: 83-99-73-61-65-78
    Munchlax: 159-100-47-47-100-6
    Riolu: 65-113-64-56-64-97
    Lucario: 61-96-61-101-61-79
    Hippopotas: 95-100-108-53-58-45
    Hippowdon: 95-98-103-59-63-41
    Skorupi: 55-70-125-42-77-90
    Drapion: 64-83-101-55-69-87
    Croagunk: 74-93-61-93-61-77
    Toxicroak: 77-99-61-81-61-80
    Carnivine: 74-101-73-91-73-47
    Finneon: 68-68-78-68-85-92
    Lumineon: 68-69-76-69-86-91
    Mantyke: 58-27-67-80-160-67
    Snover: 83-85-69-85-82-55
    Abomasnow: 84-85-70-85-79-56
    Weavile: 61-108-59-41-77-113
    Magnezone: 60-60-99-112-77-51
    Lickilicky: 97-76-85-71-85-45
    Rhyperior: 99-120-112-47-47-34
    Tangrowth: 86-86-107-94-43-43
    Electivire: 63-105-57-81-72-81
    Magmortar: 63-81-57-106-81-71
    Togekiss: 72-42-80-101-97-67
    Yanmega: 76-68-77-103-50-85
    Leafeon: 57-96-114-52-57-83
    Glaceon: 57-52-96-114-83-57
    Gliscor: 65-86-113-41-68-86
    Mamoswine: 95-113-69-61-52-69
    Porygon-Z: 73-69-60-116-64-77
    Gallade: 59-111-58-58-102-71
    Probopass: 52-48-127-66-131-35
    Dusknoir: 40-87-118-57-118-39
    Froslass: 66-77-67-77-67-105
    Rotom: 53-52-80-99-80-95
    Rotom-H: 45-57-94-93-94-76
    Rotom-W: 45-57-94-93-94-76
    Rotom-F: 45-57-94-93-94-76
    Rotom-S: 45-57-94-93-94-76
    Rotom-C: 45-57-94-93-94-76
    Uxie: 60-59-103-59-103-75
    Mesprit: 64-83-83-83-83-63
    Azelf: 60-99-55-99-55-91
    Dialga: 67-81-81-101-68-61
    Palkia: 60-81-68-101-81-68
    Heatran: 70-69-81-99-81-59
    Regigigas: 75-110-75-55-75-69
    Giratina-O: 100-81-68-81-68-61
    Giratina-A: 100-68-81-68-81-61
    Cresselia: 92-54-92-57-99-65
    Phione: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Manaphy: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Darkrai: 53-69-69-103-69-96
    Shaymin-S: 77-79-57-92-57-97
    Shaymin-L: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Arceus: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Victini: 74-77-77-77-77-77
    Snivy: 67-67-82-67-82-94
    Servine: 67-67-83-67-83-92
    Serperior: 65-65-83-65-83-98
    Tepig: 97-94-67-67-67-67
    Pignite: 100-102-60-77-60-60
    Emboar: 94-107-57-87-57-57
    Oshawott: 82-82-67-94-67-67
    Dewott: 83-83-67-92-67-67
    Samurott: 82-87-74-94-61-61
    Patrat: 81-99-70-63-70-76
    Watchog: 66-93-75-66-75-84
    Lillipup: 75-100-75-42-75-92
    Herdier: 81-99-81-43-81-74
    Stoutland: 80-94-84-42-84-75
    Purrloin: 67-82-60-82-60-108
    Liepard: 66-91-51-91-51-109
    Pansage: 72-77-70-77-70-93
    Simisage: 70-90-58-90-58-93
    Pansear: 72-77-70-77-70-93
    Simisear: 70-90-58-90-58-93
    Panpour: 72-77-70-77-70-93
    Simipour: 70-90-58-90-58-93
    Munna: 120-39-71-105-86-38
    Musharna: 109-52-80-101-90-27
    Pidove: 86-96-87-63-52-75
    Tranquill: 80-99-79-64-54-83
    Unfezant: 77-101-77-62-53-89
    Blitzle: 70-93-50-78-50-118
    Zebstrika: 70-92-58-74-58-107
    Roggenrola: 90-123-139-41-41-25
    Boldore: 81-124-124-59-47-24
    Gigalith: 76-123-118-55-64-23
    Woobat: 80-66-63-81-63-106
    Swoobat: 73-62-59-83-59-123
    Drilbur: 84-119-56-42-63-95
    Excadrill: 99-122-54-45-59-80
    Audino: 105-62-89-62-89-52
    Timburr: 112-120-83-38-53-53
    Gurdurr: 97-119-96-45-57-45
    Conkeldurr: 96-127-86-50-59-41
    Tympole: 79-78-62-78-62-100
    Palpitoad: 89-78-66-78-66-82
    Seismitoad: 97-78-69-78-69-68
    Throh: 118-99-84-30-84-44
    Sawk: 74-123-74-30-74-84
    Sewaddle: 67-78-104-59-89-62
    Swadloon: 66-76-109-60-97-51
    Leavanny: 70-96-75-66-66-86
    Venipede: 53-79-104-53-69-101
    Whirlipede: 51-70-126-51-101-60
    Scolipede: 58-87-86-53-67-108
    Cottonee: 66-44-98-61-82-108
    Whimsicott: 57-64-81-74-72-111
    Petilil: 74-57-82-115-82-49
    Lilligant: 67-57-72-105-72-86
    Basculin: 69-92-65-80-55-98
    Sandile: 79-113-55-55-55-102
    Krokorok: 78-107-59-59-59-97
    Krookodile: 85-106-63-59-63-83
    Darumaka: 101-131-66-22-66-73
    Darmanitan-Z: 89-26-89-119-89-47
    Darmanitan: 99-134-53-29-53-91
    Maractus: 73-86-67-106-67-60
    Dwebble: 71-92-120-49-49-78
    Crustle: 68-92-121-63-72-43
    Scraggy: 67-99-92-46-92-63
    Scrafty: 61-85-108-42-108-55
    Sigilyph: 68-54-75-96-75-91
    Yamask: 59-45-129-83-98-45
    Cofagrigus: 54-48-138-90-100-29
    Tirtouga: 70-101-133-69-58-28
    Carracosta: 69-100-123-77-60-30
    Archen: 62-128-52-85-52-80
    Archeops: 60-113-53-91-53-89
    Trubbish: 70-70-86-56-86-91
    Garbodor: 78-92-79-58-79-73
    Zorua: 56-90-56-111-56-90
    Zoroark: 53-95-54-108-54-95
    Minccino: 84-77-61-61-61-115
    Cinccino: 73-93-59-63-59-112
    Gothita: 72-47-79-87-103-71
    Gothorita: 71-53-82-88-100-65
    Gothitelle: 65-52-89-89-103-61
    Solosis: 72-47-63-166-79-32
    Duosion: 81-50-62-155-74-37
    Reuniclus: 103-61-70-117-80-28
    Ducklett: 94-66-75-66-75-83
    Swanna: 74-84-61-84-61-95
    Vanillite: 55-75-75-98-90-66
    Vanillish: 58-76-76-93-87-69
    Vanilluxe: 60-82-73-94-82-68
    Deerling: 81-82-69-55-69-103
    Sawsbuck: 76-97-68-58-68-92
    Emolga: 61-80-64-80-64-110
    Karrablast: 73-109-66-58-66-87
    Escavalier: 65-125-97-56-97-19
    Foongus: 108-86-70-86-86-23
    Amoonguss: 113-84-69-84-79-30
    Frillish: 75-55-69-89-116-55
    Jellicent: 97-57-67-81-100-57
    Alomomola: 162-73-78-39-44-63
    Joltik: 71-68-72-82-72-94
    Galvantula: 69-75-58-94-58-105
    Ferroseed: 67-75-137-36-129-15
    Ferrothorn: 69-88-123-51-109-19
    Klink: 61-84-107-69-92-46
    Klang: 63-83-99-73-89-52
    Klinklang: 53-88-102-62-75-79
    Tynamo: 58-92-67-75-67-100
    Eelektrik: 75-96-79-85-79-45
    Eelektross: 76-102-71-94-71-45
    Elgyem: 77-75-75-116-75-41
    Beheeyem: 71-71-71-118-90-38
    Litwick: 84-50-92-108-92-33
    Lampent: 75-50-74-118-74-68
    Chandelure: 53-49-79-128-79-71
    Axew: 66-125-86-43-57-82
    Fraxure: 74-131-78-45-56-75
    Haxorus: 64-125-77-51-60-82
    Cubchoo: 84-105-60-90-60-60
    Beartic: 90-104-76-66-76-47
    Cryogonal: 67-47-28-90-128-99
    Shelmet: 75-60-128-60-98-38
    Accelgor: 74-65-37-93-56-134
    Stunfisk: 107-64-82-79-96-31
    Mienfoo: 59-111-66-72-66-85
    Mienshao: 57-113-54-86-54-95
    Druddigon: 73-114-85-57-85-45
    Golett: 89-112-76-53-76-53
    Golurk: 85-118-76-52-76-52
    Pawniard: 60-115-95-54-54-81
    Bisharp: 60-117-94-56-66-66
    Bouffalant: 89-103-89-37-89-52
    Rufflet: 90-109-66-49-66-79
    Braviary: 89-111-68-51-68-72
    Vullaby: 87-68-93-56-81-74
    Mandibuzz: 97-59-95-50-86-72
    Heatmor: 79-92-63-100-63-62
    Durant: 55-103-106-46-46-103
    Deino: 79-99-77-69-77-58
    Zweilous: 78-93-77-71-77-63
    Hydreigon: 70-80-69-96-69-75
    Larvesta: 70-108-70-64-70-77
    Volcarona: 71-50-54-113-88-83
    Cobalion: 73-71-102-71-57-85
    Terrakion: 73-102-71-57-71-85
    Virizion: 73-71-57-71-102-85
    Tornadus-I: 63-91-55-99-63-88
    Tornadus-T: 63-79-63-87-71-96
    Thundurus-T: 63-83-55-115-63-80
    Thundurus-I: 63-91-55-99-63-88
    Reshiram: 67-81-68-101-81-61
    Zekrom: 67-101-81-81-68-61
    Landorus-I: 68-96-69-88-61-77
    Landorus-T: 68-111-69-80-61-70
    Kyurem-W: 82-79-59-111-66-62
    Kyurem: 87-90-63-90-63-66
    Kyurem-B: 82-111-66-79-59-62
    Keldeo: 73-57-71-102-71-85
    Keldeo-R: 73-57-71-102-71-85
    Meloetta-A: 76-59-59-98-98-69
    Meloetta-P: 76-98-69-59-59-98
    Genesect: 53-92-73-92-73-76


    Top 10 Highest Attack:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Top 10 Highest Special Attack:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Top 10 Highest Statistical Defense:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Top 10 Highest Statistical Special Defense:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Top 10 Fastest Pokemon:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    KEY DIFFERENCES
    The general question is: Would a metagame where all Pokemon are of the same BST be an enjoyable and worthwhile metagame? Let's look at the major differences between this proposed metagame and the one we have now:
    • All Pokemon are differentiated only by their typing, abilities, movepool and stat distribution. That means even Ratatta may be a better Choice Bander than Snorlax, or a Sunkern could have advantages over a Grass Arceus.
    • In the normal metagame, virtually all NFE's are out-rightly outclassed by its evolution almost solely because of BST. This is not the case for Equal BST Metagame, where most NFE's usually have more specialized stat distributions. In connection, this means it's not just some 200+ Pokemon that could be used effectively. Instead, all 669 Pokemon (including all formes, and Uber legendaries) are useable, simply because they all have the same BST.
    • Although the metagame does not exist yet, it's clear why Eviolite should be banned. Giving all the pre-evos a +1/+1 defenses gives them higher effective BST which screws up the whole point of this meta. Under the same principle, it is up for disccusion whether a ban is necessary for the following items as well: DeepSeaScale, DeepSeaTooth, Light Ball, Lucky Punch, Metal Powder, Quick Powder, Soul Dew, Stick and Thick Club.

    RISE OF THE NFE's
    If you go through this thread, one of the comments is that in this metagame, pre-evos are almost always better than their evos. In the Top 10 list of highest stats, most of them are pre-evos, such as Cranidos, Solosis, Metapod, Happiny and Magikarp. This can be attributed to their higher stat ratios. Evolved Pokemon usually have balanced, thus underwhelming, stats. Looking over the stats alone, one could say Gastly outclasses Gengar. But would it be true to say that in this meta, pre-evos generally outclass their evos? That is certainly not the case. Below are the characteristics that differentiate them, allowing each to be usable/viable despite the other.
    • Differences in Typing
    • Differences in Abilities
    • Differences in Movepool

    DIFFERENCES IN TYPING
    Some Pokemon change typing upon evolution, and simply because of this, the pre-evo would not completely outclass its evolution. For example, Swablu (67-59-89-59-111-74) and Altaria (70-66-84-66-98-75) have very similar stats, but in terms of bulk, Swablu outclasses its evolution. However, because of the change in typing, Altaria still has the upper-hand (Dragon-Flying is arguably better than Normal-Flying. Here is a list of all Pokemon who changes typing upon evolution:
    Show Hide
    Azurill
    Bidoof
    Burmy
    Cacnea
    Cascoon
    Charmeleon
    Chimchar
    Corphish
    Dragonair
    Eevee
    Gloom
    Grotle
    Kirlia
    Magikarp
    Metapod
    Mudkip
    Nidorina
    Nidorino
    Nincada
    Nosepass
    Onix
    Pineco
    Poliwhirl
    Prinplup
    Pupitar
    Riolu
    Scyther
    Seadra
    Seedot
    Seel
    Shelgon
    Shellder
    Shellos
    Shroomish
    Silcoon
    Skorupi
    Slugma
    Snorunt
    Staryu
    Surskit
    Swablu
    Togepi
    Torchic
    Trapinch


    DIFFERENCES IN ABILITIES
    Some Pokemon families have different abilities among them. An extreme example is Numel and Camerupt. Although they share the same typing and similar stats and movepools, their abilities are completely different. Numel has Oblivious, Simple or Own Tempo, while Camerupt has Magma Armor, Solid Rock, Anger Point. This allows them to serve completely different roles. Below is a list of Pokemon families with differences in abilities. Note that abilities they have in common are omitted from the list.
    Show Hide



    DIFFERENCES IN MOVEPOOL
    Some evolved Pokemon have superior movepool over their pre-evos, such as Butterfree and Gyarados, and are thus not outclassed. FOr others, the differences in movepool are minimal, but sometimes crucial in choosing whcih Pokemon to use. For example, take the Abra (38-30-22-155-81-133) and Alakazam (52-47-42-126-80-112) case. By stats alone, Abra wins hands down. However, looking into their movepools and you'll see Alakazam has moves Abra doesn't: Confusion, Disable, Focus Blast, Future Sight, Giga Impac, Hyper Beam, Kinesis, Miracle Eye, Psybeam, Psycho Cut and Recover. It's not much, except for that Focus Blast. Abra would have to settle for the weaker HP FIghting, while Alakazam had 120 BP fighting move, and a free Hidden Power slot. Is this enough for Zam to escape Abra's shadow? I'd say we will not know for sure unless we get to play in this metagame.


    SOME CALCULATIONS

    The first time I saw the stats, I thought: "Woah, some of these Pokemon have rocket-high attacking stats! Shedinja, Cranidos, Carvanha unleash powerful physical assaults, while Solosis, Abra, and Gastly take care of the special side. It's hard to imagine anything able to take attacks from them.!" Well at least, that's what I initially thought. But when I decided to make some calcs, and it turns out it's not that bad.

    Shedinja @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Wonder Guard
    Adamant; 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    ~ Swords Dance*
    ~ Shadow Sneak
    ~ X-Scissor
    ~ Sucker Punch
    Shedinja stands out with a frightening base 175 Attack stat. With Wonder Guard granting it immunity to many attacks, it's not that hard to get a Swords Dance, netting himself 986 Attack. With Shadow Sneak / Sucker Punch priority, facing this guy seems a futile task. However, such is not the case, as the calcs show below:
    sample calcs (open)
    +2 Shadow Sneak vs. Steelix (252 HP / 252 Def+): 12.4% ~ 14.8%
    +2 Shadow Sneak vs.Skarmory (252 HP / 252 Def+): 15.3% ~ 18.3%
    * virtually all steel-types could reliably handle Shedinja

    Abra @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Guard
    Adamant; 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    ~ Psychic / Psyshock
    ~ Shadow Ball
    ~ Charge Beam
    ~ Hidden Power Fire / Ice
    Abra is very notable for having the best special sweeping stats, with SpA and Spe base stats of 155 and 133, respectively. It may seem that it outclasses Alakazam entirely, but it missed out Focus Blast, which is a big thing. Note that because it does not have Focus Blast, the pink blobs Happiny (and evos) and even Cleffa stops it entirely if it opts to use Psychic over Psyshock. But even with Psyshock, there is a always a counter depending on its Hidden Power of Choice:
    sample calcs (open)
    *Note how Deino doesn't even have any HP and SpD EV's invested.
    Psychic vs. Deino (0 HP, 0 SpD): 0% ~ 0%
    Shadow Ball vs. Deino (0 HP, 0 SpD): 29.4% ~ 34.8%
    Charge Beam vs. Deino (0 HP, 0 SpD): 18.4% ~ 21.7%
    Hidden Power Fire vs. Deino (0 HP, 0 SpD): 25.8% ~ 30.4%
    Hidden Power Ice vs. Deino (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 58.0% ~ 68.5%
    Psychic vs. Magnezone (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 31.5% ~ 37.0%
    Psyshock vs. Magnezone (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 27.8% ~ 33.0%
    Shadow Ball vs. Magnezone (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 18.5% ~ 21.9%
    Charge Beam vs. Magnezone (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 11.4% ~ 13.6%
    Hidden Power Ice vs. Magnezone (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 16.0% ~ 19.1%
    Hidden Power Fire vs. Magnezone (252 HP, 252 SpD+): 64.8% ~ 76.5%

    Choice Banded, Adamant, 252 Atk EVs, Head Smash from a Cranidos with base Attack stat of 164 is probably the strongest Physical attack one will ever face in this meta. It's so strong, that out of 665 Pokemon to choose from, only 19 Pokemon can avoid being 2HKOed! Thankfully each of them can retaliate well enough.
    each calc assumin 252 EV's in HP and Def (open)
    Aggron: 38.3% ~ 45.1%
    Bastiodon: 39.8% ~ 46.8%
    Bronzor: 37.8% ~ 44.7%
    Cobalion: 24.3% ~ 28.6%
    Excadrill: 30.8% ~ 36.6%
    Ferroseed: 40.8% ~ 48.2%
    Geodude: 39.0% ~ 46.0%
    Golem: 42.1% ~ 49.7%
    Graveler: 41.9% ~ 49.4%
    Hippopotas: 41.6% ~ 49.0%
    Lairon: 38.9% ~ 45.8%
    Lucario: 35.6% ~ 42.0%
    Onix: 37.4% ~ 44.1%
    Rhydon: 39.3% ~ 46.5%
    Rhyhorn: 35.2% ~ 41.4%
    Rhyperior: 39.6% ~ 46.8%
    Sandshrew: 40.4% ~ 47.5%
    Steelix: 16.6% ~ 19.5%
    Wooper: 39.2% ~ 46.4%

    As of now, I'm still researching how to put up this meta. I've formally proposed this both to Pokemon Online and Pokemon Showdown, and am awaiting for feedback.
  2. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,253
    I'd just like to point out that the fastest pokemon is MAGIKARP. I think that in itself raises more questions than anything else.

    Also, Defensively, Happiny outranks Chansey who manages to beat Blissey without Eviolite.

    Solosis beats out Duosion, while Reuniclus' Special attack is not even on the list.

    Wynaut beats Wobbuffet defensively as well.

    Oh, and Bronzor is listed but Bronzong isn't.

    That, and Cleffa and Mantyke manage to be on the list, but Clefable and Mantine are nowhere to be seen.

    Hell, Gastly outclasses Chandelure's Special Attack.



    I think i see a trend...prevos being godly compared to their evos. That, ultimately, seems kind of unbalanced.

    Also, i know this is just flavor, but this is Pokemon, and pokemon are supposed to grow and train to evolve to fight better. Ultimately, this means an evolved pokemon should be better than its prevo (with the exception of maybe Shedinja in some cases). If this is no longer the case, then it's not really Pokemon.

    [/can't stop laughing at sonic speed Magikarp]
  3. Omnigross266

    Omnigross266

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2012
    Messages:
    34
    Looks very interesting, if somewhat puzzling (Magikarp the fastest, Solosis with the highest Special Attack). What if we gave everything a BST of 720, adjusting the stats upward accordingly (and stopping at 255 for each stat) ?
  4. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2010
    Messages:
    2,140
    Speed Boost Carvanha is pretty sick with 135 / 98 / 98 offensive stats. I see this being really offensive even with Eviolite because of stuff like Carvanha, Abra, Solosis, etc.
  5. lacerta

    lacerta
    is a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    May 19, 2010
    Messages:
    58
    Would Eviolite be legal under these circumstances?

    Trapinch looks like a horror, as do Smeargle, Clamperl and Hustle Darumaka.
  6. Wobbanaut

    Wobbanaut

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
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    Well I don't suspect a troll but with this meta game Speed Boost Carvanha with Eviolite(which should be banned) would be the most ove centralising mon in the. Whole meta game no longer will we laugh at team aqua grunts .the problem with this is that with the NFEs GF made the stats have large differces between stats which doesn't matter normally but can wreak havoc in this metagame and cause ridiculous things like Super Sonic Magikarp whose speed doubles in the rain
  7. Treadshot A1

    Treadshot A1

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    Can i make a suggestion? Since GF made the NFE's stats on a very very different scale to that of the pokemon we see in OU (like for instance having larger differences between base stats for each stat like HP and Atk), could this be applied to Basic/Baby pokemon and then separately for Stage 1 pokemon?

    By that i mean, it would seem a lot more reasonable to have Bulbasaur fight it out with Solosis, and Duosion battle it out with Chansey.

    If you look at my previous post, you'll see that the prevos are generally better than their evos in their best stats, and this hold true even in three stage evolution lines like Reuniclus' or Blissey's. In both cases, the babies/basics are the best, followed by the Stage 1 pokemon, and then finally the Stage 2 pokemon. So, by splitting these up, you'd get a metagame where pokemon would see more balanced usage, as right now there is little reason to use an evolved pokemon over its prevo if one exists. Why attack with Reuniclus when Solosis actually hits harder? You could say that the HP stat balances out the difference, but pokemon has always been a game where (short of VGC's goodstuffs) a certain pokemon on a team can fill a role and that role only. Since when have we ever had a pokemon who was a jack of all trades (in one set)? That's what i foresee Reuniclus ending up as: a jack of all trades compared to Solosis's Scarfed/Specs'd Special Sweeper. Reuniclus can't pull off an offensive set nearly as well as Solosis due to the changed base stats, and the only advantage left is a larger movepool, which lets Reuniclus again act as a jack of all trades, but a master of none. And when you look at the current metagame and it's teams, you'll see many choiced special sweepers, but very few if any pokemon who can pull off a jack of all trades role.

    [/2cents]
  8. Charon

    Charon

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    This makes no sense unless you divide them into 3 groups, distinguished by evolutionary stages.
    Charmander -> 1
    Charmeleon -> 2
    Charizard -> 3
    etc.

    Because the balance between the stats is different at different TBS.

    Btw EVs are an indicator of stage, even for pokemon who do not have a full number of 3 stages:
    Spinda -> 1
    Tropius -> 2
    Lugia -> 3
  9. Tetrinity

    Tetrinity

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    I don't understand the "prevos are better than evos, this isn't Pokémon" argument, or why this metagame should be broken up into stages.

    This is a competitive Pokémon forum. Our primary interest is the competitive use of Pokémon in battles against each other. Why should flavour be an issue? You're picking Solosis from a list in the teambuilder when you normally would have selected Reuniclus. I fail to see the inherent problem with that.

    Okay, there are some weird instances, like Magikarp's 46/23/126/34/46/184 stat distribution. Yes, that makes it the fastest thing in the metagame, and that Defence stat isn't too shabby either. But the whole point of this metagame would be to examine how Pokémon perform when they aren't completely shafted in terms of BST. I imagine Magikarp would still be terrible due to its movepool, horrid offenses and being incredibly frail on the special side, but other normally bad Pokémon have a chance to show that they'd be well suited to a job if they hadn't been cursed at the design stage. I for one feel that it's a great idea.

    As for breaking it up into stages based on evolutionary stage, that doesn't really work, on both a theoretical and practical level. It's too difficult to say where a given Pokémon belongs based on evolutionary level since not every Pokémon has a three stage evolution. Taking Pokémon from different levels of play would really mess up the whole point of splitting into stages; preserving stat distribution styles between stages.

    Also, in practice this metagame would have a niche following at best; breaking it into three sub-metagames before it even comes into form doesn't seem too great a method of gathering together a group of people willing to participate.
  10. Fizz

    Fizz

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    If you are in fact doing what you say, then no stat would ever be greater than 255. Take the example you give of Chansey. It has an HP stat of 250 and a BST of 450. Following your procedure, I multiply 250 by (450/720), and get 250*(450/720)=156.25.

    I think you meant "divided by" rather than "multiplied by".

    I should also note that we can't really make judgements about a possible metagame such as this one without playing it. When you change the stats of every Pokémon, we have no idea what makes a base stat good and what makes one bad. There are far too many factors to take into account when analyzing what works in a metagame in which all BSTs are equal, and in which Arceus' base stats are all 77.
  11. fade5

    fade5

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    Just from a quick cursory glance, Abra's absolutely insane: It's got 155 SpA, 81 SpDef, and 133 Speed. Admittedly it's got no physical bulk, but Substitute can help, and Magic Guard+Life Orb means it will hit like a NUKE with Psychic/Shadow Ball. The only problem is it has to rely on HP Fighting, and of course, be wary of Physical Priority attacks.

    This looks to be very interesting, and having Kyogre and Groudon opens up a whole world of Swift Swim/Chlorophyll shenanigans.
  12. StallMandibuzz

    StallMandibuzz

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    Wow, Eviolite would make some of these Pokèmon freaking tanks, like Aron and Shelmet. Also, ROFL at Magikarp being the fastest Pokèmon in this tier thingy. 0_0 In almost every case, the pre-evolutions are better then their evolutions in this equal-BST metagame.
  13. Antar

    Antar That's Dr. Antar to you
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    Just in case anyone was curious, something like this is easily implemented on PO using the "Level Balance" clause (it's a cornerstone of Challenge Cup).

    It's for equal stats (assuming 31 IVs and neutral natures, IIRC), not equal BSTs, though.

    You know, in case you want to try this out using direct challenges.
  14. Raverist

    Raverist

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    Hippopotas with Eviolite is a terrifying prospect with those 95/108/58 defences, while Sand Rush Drilbur enjoys 119 attack off an eye watering 95 base speed in the sand to outrun just about everything.

    Funnily enough, Vulpix is pretty much what Ninetales is at the moment.
  15. yaya0

    yaya0

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    ...Yeah, Eviolite's gonna be banned.
  16. fade5

    fade5

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    Abra: 38/30/22/155/81/133
    Alakazam: 52/47/42/126/80/112

    Yep, sight improvement in ability to take Physical attacks, but at the cost of 29 points of Special attack and 21 points of Speed. In this metagame, Pokemon can get worse as they evolve.
    We just figured out why Ash's Pikachu doesn't want to evolve!
    Joking aside, Eviolite looks really interesting, since a First Stage Pokemon has the same BST as a Fully evolved Pokemon, but can use Eviolite and make itself much bulkier.

    Edit:
    Not necessarily, it wasn't banned in Little Cup, though there was some serious discussion about it, given how much it changed the metagame compared to Gen4.
  17. Acritter

    Acritter

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    Probably the first step that should be taken is to ban Eviolite. Not because it's "broken" or anything, but because it prevents players from having to make difficult choices. Prevos generally follow the trend of having lower defense:offense ratios than their evos, and so when we scale them up and throw Eviolite into the mix, we end up with prevos having higher effective BSTs than their evos. The point of this exercise was to make BSTs equal, not to give prevos the higher BSTs.
  18. RitterCat

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    Pikachu with Light Ball............. Reqy has base 84 and 77 attacking stats to improve, and is one of the fastest around. And with those 53 / 46 / 61 it's not living much priority but who cares it gets Extremespeed!
  19. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    It's definitely "divided by" for the (BST/720). I was wondering that for a little while too since multiplying didn't make any sense.

    Also lol, Shedinja having 2 base HP is pretty sweet.
  20. Zacchaeus

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    Antar mentioned it already but I would like to make a note. Thanks for doing this research because essentially what you've done is shown which Pokés normally (discounting natures and factoring in abilities like Hustle or items like Thick Club) have the highest respective stats in Challenge Cup (which is my favorite tier).

    However I don't exactly understand why you made HP and Def or SpD into two categories respectively as opposed to 3 individual ones
  21. Byrne

    Byrne

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    I would play this metagame honestly haha. FSU with a CB Diglett mothafuckazzz
  22. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast Flapper the Zubat = best scramblemon
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    Pikachu is suddenly no longer restricted to theme teams.

    On another note, sweet Jesus Magikarp and Feebas are fast.
  23. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    I had calculated something as this, but differently. All final stages would be normalized to 600 BST, stage evos to 450 and basic stages to 300; any pokémon which already has 600+ BST would be normalized by the same proportion the final non-600 stages had been, which would put, say, Garchomp at 753, Giratina at 848 and Arceus at 903. This way, there would be at least a Standard and an Uber metagame.
  24. zyrefredric

    zyrefredric

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    If we do that, most of the Pokemon would have have BST of 720, but those that exceeds to 255 would be at lower BST. Chansey would then have a BST of only 575 instead.


    These is exactly my initial thought. Even if the metagame does not really exist yet, as of the moment, if you think hard about it, Eviolite does seem counterproductive to the whole point of this metagame.


    I'm sorry I typed that wrong. I meant multiply by (720/BST). Or divide by (BST/720) Either would do.


    I feel like this post summarizes very well the "whole point of this metagame". Yes, if we examine closely it may be very easy to conclude that all NFE's would "outclass" their evolutions. However, we would never know unless we play the meta. But even if this happens to be true, that shows us that NFE's have better stat spreads than most Pokemon, and I don't see that as a problem, really. Think of it this way: NFE's generally have better/speciallized stat spreads but shallow movepools, while the evos have bigger movepools but less specialized stat spreads.


    I've researched the Level Balance clause carefully before making this proposal, and these are my findings:
    • As you've stated, the clause is for equal stats (assuming 31 IVs and neutral natures, IIRC), not equal BSTs, though. If you use the level balance for all Pokemon, and recalculate the effective base stats from the resulting stats, you'd see that the BST's are not equal, and that the higher BST Pokemon would still have the higher BST's. Arceus would still be way stronger than Sunkern.
    • I initially wrote a proposal to a change in the Level Balance clause, making all Pokemon at levels where their effective BST's are equal. That puts Sunkern (BST=180) at level 100, and Arceus (BST=720) at level 37. It seemed legit except for two things: 1st, putting some Pokemon at a lower level makes some stats would have effective base stats that are negative. 2nd, the whole thing of "balancing" by changing the levels seems invalid in its entirety, simply bacause the HP stat is solved differently than the other stats.

    Which is why there is a need to answer this question: Is it possible to implement this metagame? Can PO support a "clause" where all the Pokemon have these "BST-equalized" stats? If yes, how do go about in making this into reality, so that we could at least try it out and see if its any worth?
  25. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Self-proclaimed DEAD king
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    You could edit the PO client (there's a .txt somewhere with the pokémon's base stats) and upload the client somewhere.

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