Expensive Heat! (Wifi Team needs help)

[DangerousMan]

Expensive Heat!

Recently Edited: December 22, 2011

Introduction:​

Greetings Smogon,
I am posting up a Standard OU Sun team I am currently working on that I hope to use in an upcoming tournament/s where I live. I am not a fan of weather, but unless you're a pokemon wizard with magic powers It's just better to use it. I went with Sun, which in my opinion is the least "stupid" of the four. I am hoping to gain some good insight on how to improve my team and maybe some tips that will give me the edge over the competition that will probably whore themselves out with SS/Rain teams. I also enjoy abusing Dragonite and Volcarona so the team is mainly based on them.

Disclaimer: I am a very poor person with no internet (Except on my phone and sometimes I steal Wifi on weekends) So dream world Pokemon suggestions are out for the most part. Also meaning that I do not have access to most event legendaries that are popular for online usage. (Ex. Jirachi / Celebi) I still believe that it's possible to make a viable sun team so HELP ME OUT!

The Team!​

Ninetales @ leftovers
Drought
Timid (+Spe,-Atk)
128 HP / 252 SpA / 20 SDef /108 Spe
Fire Blast
Sunny Day
Solarbeam
Will-o-Wisp

Standard Ninetales with standard moves is Standard. Ninetales comes in and makes it sunny boosting Fire-type attacks and weakening Water attacks. Ninetales isn't as useless as everyone thinks though. Fire Blast on Ninetales with 252 SpA EVs lets her hit shit pretty damn hard and she's got decent SpD to survive many resisted moves used against her. Sunny Day / Solarbeam for those who don't expect it allow Ninetales to get an edge in the weather war against those who carelessly switch out their Ttar or politoed. Will-o-wisp is good to burn pesky dragons who are always a threat.

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Arena Trap
Jolly (+Spe,-SpA)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Stealth Rock
Earthquake
Substitute (Suggested by New World Order)
Reversal (Suggested by New World Order)

Dugtrio traps threats that otherwise make life hell for my team. He traps and kills heatran not on a balloon. Heatran is a huge threat that walls most of the team so killing him is very important. This is also my edge for winning weather wars netting 2HKOs on most politoeds and ttars. I have to play cautiously though because ill lose Dugtrio if theyre scarfed. Stealth Rock is obvious and keeps those hard hitting dragons with wings at bay. I use stone edge as a Volc / Dnite / Salamence check because theyre also very annoying and im not sure if reversal is worth it.

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Flame Body
Bold (+Def,-Atk)
240 HP / 216 Def / 52 Spe
Fiery Dance
Bug Buzz
Quiver Dance
Morning Sun

Volcarona is pretty damn broken and 1/2 of the reason I wanna run a Sun team. This is the first sweeper of the team that can usually come in as long as there's no rocks on the field and she sets up on some poor bastard. Press quiver dance a bunch of times and pick a move to kill shit. Morning Sun prolongs her sweep letting her heal up and laugh.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Multiscale
Adamant (+Atk,-SpA)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Fire Punch
Extremespeed (Suggested by New World Order)

Dragonite is just nasty... Come in when theress no ugly rocks everywhere. Dance for free. Then pick a move to kill shit with. She's the main reason i wanna make a sun team. Fire punch also gets a boost in the Sun. Outrage is standard stab and Earthquake is for heatran. Im debating if i should switch to dragon claw because getting locked sucks... Dnite is usually my go to late game sweeper.

Forretres @ Leftovers
Sturdy
Relaxed (+Def,-Spe)
252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Def
Rapid Spin
Volt Switch
Spikes
Gyro Ball

I was really unsure about using forretres as a spinner because theres not too much appealing about him, but apparently he's decent for sun teams. He serves as a decent dragon resist and can spin which my team NEEDS. I was debating about using donphan, but he cant take an outrage or a draco meteor so Im not sure what to do. Spins hazards and lays down spikes. Gyro ball hits pretty hard on some people stay in thinking it wont. Volt switch is to run from Magnezones and keep up momentum (Also hits gyrados pretty hard)

Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Justified
Jolly (+Spe,-SAtk)
252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Close Combat
Stone Edge
Earthquake
X-Scissor

The second member I was unsure about. I use banded terrakion on one of my other teams and jesus it hits fucking hard, but he's here on this team for a different reason. I felt like a needed a revenge killer and ended up going with Terrakion. Stab close combat hits fucking hard and KOs heatrans which annoy the shit outta me. Stone edge also kills Pesky Mences / Dnites that have set up already when they needa die. OR I CAN MISS AND LOSE. Either or. X-scissor hits Latis and Reuns for pretty decent damage i guess IDK. Im not sure who to put here. SO PLEASE HELP!

End

Is conk worth swapping out terakion for? Or Donphan for forre? Is Heatran a good addition to my team and who would I swap out?

Anyways thats all for my team, please flame me so i can make it better. P.S. I was eating and typing with one hand so there will be plenty of typos that I probably wont fix. Ill insert the export thingy for PO when i figure out how to do it and ill do a threat list eventually as well. PLEASE HELP ME MAKE THIS TEAM A WINNER! Thanks!

 

[DangerousMan]

Threat List: Coming Soon.

 

[New World Order]

Hi, solid team. First of all, Dragonite would really appreciate Extremespeed. While it has impressive bulk factoring in Multi Scale, it still doesn't enjoy being hit by moves such as Stone Edge and Ice moves. If Muiti Scale is broken, these moves will deal significant damage. It's speed isn't particularly impressive either, so it gets outsped by a number of Choice Scarf users. Extremespeed allows you to OHKO, or at the very least get a last hit in against the likes of Scarfape and ScarfLandorus before they go for the OHKO. Earthquake's main target is Heatran, as Fire Punch hits everyone else harder. You already have Dugtrio to eliminate Heatran anyways so non issue.

Secondly, I suggest running Substitute and Reversal over Stone Edge and Sucker Punch on Dugtrio. Earthquake, even with STAB, is incredibly weak, and will not OHKO Tyranitar, which tbh is the biggest reason to use Dugtrio on a sun team. With 1 HP left, Dugtrio is capable of OHKOing Tyranitar with a max power Reversal. Reversal can also allow Dugtrio to revenge kill the likes of Hydreigon, which is always nice. Sometimes, you'll face a stubborn Tyranitar who just wont attack, or Duggy's Sash gets broken by Stealth Rock since Forry was picked off early. You can use Substitute to beat yourself down to low HP to maximize Reversal's power. Be sure to use only 29 HP IVs, this allows you to get yourself to 1 HP from max HP.

Finally, your team seems to have trouble against stall teams, Rain stall in particular. All these teams will have some method of shutting down Dragonite , while Volcarona wont enjoy eating a Toxic one bit. In general, Volcarona doesn't like status, and you have no cleric/ anything to mitigate this. I suggest using a ChestoRest Volcarona. Not only is this guy the best last man standing sweeper in the current metagame, it also shits all over stall, and can heal itself of status. Just get in, boost a couple times, Rest up to basically get a one time Max Restore, then go for your sweep. It shits all over stall, which is always nice. While Morning Sun is a useful move and all, you have no way of preventing status, and the sleep induced by Rest after your Chesto Berry is gone, while sometimes annoying, is useful simply because it protects Volcarona from more threatening statuses, namely Toxic.

TLDR version

Extremespeed>Earthquake on Dragonite
pros: strong priority, protects from revenge killing
cons: walled by Heatran, but you have Duggy

Substitute/Reversal>Stone Edge/Sucker Punch on Dugtrio
pros: a big fuck you to Tyranitar
cons: you lose Sucker Punch, but honestly, the only things you use Dugtrio for are Tyranitar, Heatran, and Terrakion

ChestoRest Volcarona>bulky Volcarona
pros: protects Volcarona from status, helps against stall, great last man standing sweeper once Stone Edge users are gone
cons: a less reliable method for long-term healing

GL

Sets

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Trait: Multi Scale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA)
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Fire Punch
- Extremespeed

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Trait: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Stealth Rock
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Reversal

Volcarona @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Flame Body
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Rest

 

[mazzulmaz]

You have a HUGE water weak, and yes I know you're playing Drought put you can't just assume that you always have the sun up. A standard offensive Starmie set is a HUGE threat to your team, as it can take on Volcarona, Ninetales, Terrakion and Dugtrio with Surf or Hydro Pump, Dragonite with Ice Beam and Forry with HP Fire (and even if it doesn't run HP Fire, theres not much Forry can do to damage it).

You might wanna take a bulky chlorophyll sweeper to switch in on Starmies water moves and then retaliate with Energy Ball/Solarbeam/Horn Leech/whatever.

 

[truedrew]

hey there great team except one nit pick it seems that you would have a tough time taking on rain stall since most of those teams run a bulky toad who can take hits from dugtrio and KO it with scald and other residual damage. Also jellicent can wall a large portion of you're team with Taunt + toxic or some other set ( don't use jellicent that much) try a zapados or some thing else to take care of jellicent+ferrothorn combos. Also if You want to post a export code just go to team builder in PO and in team builder click on file and you will see several options, one of those options is export team and it gives u the entire team in Export team

 

[DangerousMan]

Hi, solid team. First of all, Dragonite would really appreciate Extremespeed. While it has impressive bulk factoring in Multi Scale, it still doesn't enjoy being hit by moves such as Stone Edge and Ice moves. If Muiti Scale is broken, these moves will deal significant damage. It's speed isn't particularly impressive either, so it gets outsped by a number of Choice Scarf users. Extremespeed allows you to OHKO, or at the very least get a last hit in against the likes of Scarfape and ScarfLandorus before they go for the OHKO. Earthquake's main target is Heatran, as Fire Punch hits everyone else harder. You already have Dugtrio to eliminate Heatran anyways so non issue.

Ya I was debating if I should breed Extremespeed into my Dragonite, but I wasn't sure how crucial it was to her success. Does it hit hard enough in your opinion? I'll make the change nonetheless, I just wanted to get some insight from more experienced players.

Secondly, I suggest running Substitute and Reversal over Stone Edge and Sucker Punch on Dugtrio. Earthquake, even with STAB, is incredibly weak, and will not OHKO Tyranitar, which tbh is the biggest reason to use Dugtrio on a sun team. With 1 HP left, Dugtrio is capable of OHKOing Tyranitar with a max power Reversal. Reversal can also allow Dugtrio to revenge kill the likes of Hydreigon, which is always nice. Sometimes, you'll face a stubborn Tyranitar who just wont attack, or Duggy's Sash gets broken by Stealth Rock since Forry was picked off early. You can use Substitute to beat yourself down to low HP to maximize Reversal's power. Be sure to use only 29 HP IVs, this allows you to get yourself to 1 HP from max HP.

Hmmm this is an interesting change. I was using Stone Edge as a backup plan to kill flying dragons/volc/gyarados who have set up already because if i miss the first one and Dugtrio is at full hp i can try again. But being able to OHKO ttar sounds really good as well.

Finally, your team seems to have trouble against stall teams, Rain stall in particular. All these teams will have some method of shutting down Dragonite , while Volcarona wont enjoy eating a Toxic one bit. In general, Volcarona doesn't like status, and you have no cleric/ anything to mitigate this. I suggest using a ChestoRest Volcarona. Not only is this guy the best last man standing sweeper in the current metagame, it also shits all over stall, and can heal itself of status. Just get in, boost a couple times, Rest up to basically get a one time Max Restore, then go for your sweep. It shits all over stall, which is always nice. While Morning Sun is a useful move and all, you have no way of preventing status, and the sleep induced by Rest after your Chesto Berry is gone, while sometimes annoying, is useful simply because it protects Volcarona from more threatening statuses, namely Toxic.

I was debating which of the 2 sets to choose from because I enjoy how bulky this thing can get, but toxic does get really annoying and ends the sweep. I've been playing with the team more now and I've also been having major issues combating Landorus and Gliscor because I have no ice moves and water is weakened. What should I do or who should I use instead?

 

[DangerousMan]

You have a HUGE water weak, and yes I know you're playing Drought put you can't just assume that you always have the sun up. A standard offensive Starmie set is a HUGE threat to your team, as it can take on Volcarona, Ninetales, Terrakion and Dugtrio with Surf or Hydro Pump, Dragonite with Ice Beam and Forry with HP Fire (and even if it doesn't run HP Fire, theres not much Forry can do to damage it).

You might wanna take a bulky chlorophyll sweeper to switch in on Starmies water moves and then retaliate with Energy Ball/Solarbeam/Horn Leech/whatever.

Hi thanks for the rate. I realised that a chlorophyll sweeper would be a great addition to my team, especially since I'm using a sun team, however I'm trying to perfect the team I currently use on my cartridge game (not online) and many chlorophyll sweepers for online builds carry either HP fire or HP ice/rock to avoid getting walled by Heatrans/Scizors/Ferrothorns etc. I know that it isn't impossible to breed HP fire onto something, but the breeding process is already tedious enough and I'm very lazy. I was thinking about using Tangrowth or Liligant because theyre the best chlorophyll sweepers available to the game, but both function best with Hidden powers.

Could you suggest a set you feel is best for one of the two and also who I would replace for them on my team?

Thanks again.

 

[DangerousMan]

hey there great team except one nit pick it seems that you would have a tough time taking on rain stall since most of those teams run a bulky toad who can take hits from dugtrio and KO it with scald and other residual damage. Also jellicent can wall a large portion of you're team with Taunt + toxic or some other set ( don't use jellicent that much) try a zapados or some thing else to take care of jellicent+ferrothorn combos. Also if You want to post a export code just go to team builder in PO and in team builder click on file and you will see several options, one of those options is export team and it gives u the entire team in Export team

Hey! Thanks for the rate. Zapdos is an interesting addition, but that adds another Stealth Rock weakness to the team. Meaning I would have to replace one of my already SR weak pokemon with it and I feel as though Volc/Dnite are stronger than Zapdos. Ya i've been having problems with the jelli guy...Hmm any other suggestions or who i could replace for Zapdos?

Also...I didn't know how to do the Export thing, but now I do and I will add that asap.

Thanks again.

 

[Mr Acurite]

one problem i see with your team is, outside of forretress (which can't do much), you have little to no defense. Maybe switch the dugtrio with a good bliss, and also try something unusual, like a water type. A good lapras set with ddance as opposed to your run-of-the-mill dnite. Be creative!

 

[mklo14]

Overall pretty solid team you got here! But I do have sommmme suggestions :D.
(disclaimer, first comment uses a dream world poke, if you really can't get him then just disregard it!)
First off, you seem unsure about terrakion on the team, if I were you, I would put in venasuar. W/ chloryphyl, and solar beam, you'll destroy water pokemon, and be able to pull off a good sweep w/o the need to boost! Being bulky, powerful, and with sun hella fast, he is a perfect replacement for terrak! However he won't really act as a revenge, killer but I'm not sure you need one much, since this guy will be pounding them away anyway!

Look here for a set for vena! :D. http://www.smogon.com/bw/pokemon/venusaur
(I'm to lazy to type up a spcific moveset, but any of these will prolly do well, I'd go with special growth personally but mixed attacker works well to!

Secondly, I saw your volca there, and was somewhat confused. You use morniing sun and leftovers, while this can make you bulky and live longer, after quiver dances leftovers, isn't very necessary since you'll be hitting first predominantly, and just OHKOing everything hopefully. So I suggest runing life orb instead. W/ morning sun to heal back your life orb damage you'll need not worry about life orbs drawbacks! And it'll increase your attack making 2HKOs into OHKOs! I also think because of the above reasoning you should run a more offensive nature, modest, is what I suggest. This lets you hit harder, thats all it does. The defense isn't very necessary thanks to morning sun, and hopefull after quiver your never hit anyways! So this will help you OHKO all them pokes!
Otherwise, I don't see any major changes necessary! Good team building!

 

[Smaug]

As a few people mentioned, you have a huge water weakness. I recommend replacing Terrakion with a Mixed Growth Victreebel. While it is somewhat frail, it has Chlorophyll as its (only) non- Dream World ability, and doesn't need hidden power: it gets Weather Ball through breeding! I don't know exactly, but the set could be something like Growth, Leaf Blade, Weather Ball, Sludge Bomb.

 

[tehy]

I agree with smaug;although not exactly about victreebell. Let's face it; you need SOME kind of a revenger on this team; but having one that is also a chlorophyll sweeper would help you immensely.

Also; why a dugtrio? Heatran is annoying; but all he can really do is status or phaze volc. I recommend replacing dugtrio with something and keeping EQ on dragonite, as i usually find that e-speed is basically worthless on him. The only thing it helps you do is take down scarfers (Rare;and most of them are named TERRAKION who resists), priority users (Mostly scizor/luke who again resist, mamo gets an honorable mention but come on), and weakened faster pokemon at plus zero such as starmie, which is nice and all but isn't nearly as good as the ability to crush heatrans.

 

[AB2]

Hey, this team is really cool but I think that you could add a few things so that you are completely taking advantage of your own weather. Currently, I think that Volcarona could really use a little support if you want to try and clean up with it later in the match. If you want to lure in and rid of Volcarona's main issues, such as specially defensive Heatran and Dragonite, I would try running a Venusaur over Terrakion. Although Terrakion is one of your main rock resistances (it's not really that great of a rock resist to begin with), I think that adding Venusaur to this team would not only help you abuse your own weather quite a lot more, but also help out Volcarona. If you were to run a set such as energy ball / hp ice / growth / earthquake then you can easily lure in and destroy common switch ins to Volcarona. With earthquake, you can ko specially defensive Heatran which is pretty much the most common switch into Volcarona. Although you will be unable to beat variants that pack balloon, Volcarona gets free set up there anyways. HP Ice gets rid of any Dragonite problem that you may have had, while also helping Volcarona. A good spread would be to run maximum special attack and speed while investing the rest into attack with a rash nature. Although Venusaur will miss out on hitting threats such as Skarmory and Zong for super effective damage, both of those 'mons generally do not want to come in with Volcarona being able to easily set up against both.

I think that you should really watch out for rock attacks on this team. Although Dugtrio can pretty much take on hit, Forretress might not like switching into stone edge at times. This is why I'd like you to consider running a physically defensive spread on Forretress so that your team will be able to take rock attacks reasonably well. If you decide to take my advice and run Venusaur over Terrakion, this will be especially important in allowing you to play around threats such as Tyranitar. With this change, if you play Forrestress and Dugtrio relatively well then you should have no problems. gl.