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Fable

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by IronBullet93, Jul 26, 2011.

  1. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 Sitting on a cornflake
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    Fable


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Introduction

    In my time at smogon, I've only ever submitted a single RMT. This is my way of giving something back to the forum that has been a big part of my life here so far. I started off my gen V career later than most people, specifically after Smogon Tournament 7 ended. I went straight to the usage stats, built a team of the top tier pokes in OU, and began laddering. I didn't like the metagame much, most teams were carbon copies of each other and few original ones actually turned out to be successful. Then Garchomp got banned, and I decided to start afresh. I enjoy building teams around underrated Pokemon, and so I began my search. I soon stumbled upon Hydreigon, and found it to be just what I was looking for. An incredibly trolly speed stat, a huge special attack stat, and a movepool as big as folgorios mouth. The discovery that led to the birth of this team. The Pokemon themselves were not ground-breaking discoveries, but I decided be a bit innovative with my movesets. The result was the most successful team that I've built this generation, and my go to team for the past couple of months. The premise of the team is to break down the opponents defensive core with Hydreigon, in order to open up a gaping hole which my other Pokemon can easily take advantage of.

    The team has seen a very high degree of success on the ladder, peaking at number 1 with a rating of 1524. It went 4-1 in the smogon frontier, and 1-1 in WCOP. The thread title comes from my main laddering alt, _Fable_. I've decided to retire this team with UK out of the world cup, and since it has become well known now and the effectiveness of my MVP has reduced. I was also just itching to write an RMT lol. It's a very comfortable team to use and it's not very weak to any form of weather. Pretty much the ideal goal for bulky offense this generation.


    In Depth



    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar@Choice Scarf
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Stone Edge
    - Superpower

    Seriously, why would you use specially defensive Tyranitar. I mean a Tyranitar that can't OHKO Latios with Crunch is just stupid. A Tyranitar that uses special attacks even more so. This is the boss, get rid of the apple core and slap a scarf on. This guy is my main answer to Latios. Heck if I see a Latios and I'm facing opposing sand I just switch him in, survive any attack it takes, and Crunch/Pursuit. When anyone sees Tar in the lead spot they simply assume it's specially defensive and get destroyed turn 1. Atleas that was the case until recently. People have started catching on to how useful this set actually is, and it's lost some of its surprise value. It's a great check to Thundurus, SD Terrakion, Toradus, Latias, Starmie, quite a lot of stuff. And of course, without it I would get steamrollered by rain and sun. It's quite fun when Ninetales stays in to WoW and I can get a quick KO on their weather starter. That is, if Stone Edge hits. I almost always used to lead with Tyranitar due to the sheer unexpectedness of a Scarf, but now I stay in only in certain cases. I never open with Tyranitar against rain or sun lest I reveal my scarf, but I will definitely lead with Tar if I see:
    - an opposing Tar in the lead spot
    - a shell smash team, in order to get a quick KO on the likely Espeon lead.

    Pretty standard moveset really. Stone Edge and Crunch are the obligatory STAB moves and hit very hard. Pursuit is for the millions of special attackers that wet their pants when they see this guy, and Superpower for coverage. I have considered Rock Slide for the increased accuracy, but I really like the extra power. Ice Punch has also crossed my mind for Gliscor, probably over Crunch. Maximum attack and speed to deal as much damage as fast as possible. A Jolly nature since it's very crucial for Scarftar to outspeed base 115s.


    [​IMG]
    Conkeldurr@Leftovers
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Drain Punch
    - Mach Punch
    - Payback

    I have no idea why this guy is dropping in popularity. He is simply so efficient at what he does, and is extremely dangerous when used correctly. Conkeldurr lures in Gliscor and Skarmory like cicada attracts Eo. I Bulk Up as they switch in, and use the appropriate attack to strip off about 40 percent of their health at +1. In Gliscors case, I spam Payback if he carries Taunt, and continue Bulking Up if he carries Protect. It's a very effective strategy, and leaves Gliscor severely weakened and unable to take on Excadrill later in the game. Mach Punch is the only priority attack on the team, and is amazing on a slow hard hitting mofo like Conkeldurr. Mach Punch makes Conkeldurr an excellent revenge killer against frail sweepers, in particular Excadrill, Terrakion and Lucario. If I set up enough Bulk Ups, nothing is going to stop Conkeldurrs sweep with Mach Punch destroying faster stuff and Drain Punch continuously healing it up.

    The moveset is, again, standard. I prefer Payback over Stone Edge for the increased accuracy. After a Bulk Up it still deals with fliers well enough, and I very much enjoy seeing Celebi and Latios switch in and have half of their health stripped off. Drain Punch is the obligatory STAB, and is used over more powerful Fighting moves for its priceless recovery. Unfortunately Payback is still useless against slow shit like Slowbro and Reuniclus, but thankfully they are pretty much the only hard counters to this set. Maximizing Conkeldurr's attack is the main priority, and the EVs are then split between HP and Special Defense to give it respectable special bulk.


    [​IMG]
    Celebi@Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 220 HP / 248 SAtk / 40 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic
    - Stealth Rock
    - Hidden Power Fire

    This little onion means all business. It sets up rocks, checks rain, and hits like a truck. No one expects Celebi to hit so hard off the bat and with this coverage, with most people expecting the Nasty Plot set. Leaf Storm is incredibly powerful, having a good chance to OHKO standard scarfed Tyranitar after Stealth Rock. Now for a special move that isn't Fighting typed, that is very impressive. Common switch-ins this guy such as Dragontie, Reuniclus and Latios are all hit hard by the appropriate move. Celebi acts as a hard counter to every single bulky Water in the metagame, and is my main answer to Conkeldurr and Substitute Landorus. Hidden Power Fire allows Celebi to deal with Scizor and Ferrothorn. It 2HKOs Skarmory, and deals respectable damage to opposing Celebi.

    Leaf Storm to absolutely wreck things, packing almost twice the power of a neutral Giga Drain. The recovery is missed, but the power is simply too good to pass up. Psychic provides excellent coverage, combating Volcarona, Thundurus, Dragonite and the like. I have been testing Recover over this, and it's been working decently. I especially appreciate the added survivability against rain. Rocks are self-explanatory, Celebi forces so many switches that it is very easy to get them up. HP Fire to deal with steel types. The EVs give Celebi maximum special attacking power with plenty of bulk. 40 speed to speed creep the Celebi that run 36 evs.


    [​IMG]
    Excadrill@Air Balloon
    Ability: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin
    - Swords Dance

    One of the deadliest sweepers in the metagame, and definitely the best spinner in the game. I use Excadrill more as a revenge killer and spinner than a sweeper, but it's a very useful Pokemon to have late-game, since it can attempt a sweep at pretty much any point during the match. It's a good enough check to opposing Excadrill, along with Thundurus, Volcarona, basically anything frail that it outspeeds. Spin is very important for Gyarados to be able to carry out its job well, which makes Excadrill even more valuable. It is also one of my biggest assets against stall and my primary counter to specially defensive Jirachi, a Pokemon who can annoy the team a lot by spreading paralysis. Not to mention, it gets a relatively free switch-in on the only safe switch-in to Hydreigon. tl;dr, it does a lot of stuff, and does it well.

    The moveset and item are that of the average Excadrill, not that Excadrill itself is average of course. Earthquake and Rapid Spin are the bread and butter of this set, while Air Balloon allows it to check Landorus, opposing Excadrill, and get past a weakened Gliscor. Swords Dance allows Excadrill to get past weakened Gliscor, and its number of viable checks at +2 I can barely count on my fingers. I have fiddled around with the last two moveslots though, switching around with X-Scissor and Frustration, but this has been the most consistent combination. Although, a 3 attacks set is just as effective since I use SD quite sparingly and the extra coverage is always nice. Max attack and speed is a given. I prefer Adamant for the power, rarely have I been in a situation where I would have preferred Jolly. It's incredibly annoying when opposing Excadrill manage to flinch me with Rock Slide though.


    [​IMG]
    Gyarados@Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
    - Taunt

    This spot actually belonged to a DD Gyarados. I realized how unprepared teams were for it in the current metagame, with most teams having Rotom-W as their only check. Soon I found that opposing Dragon Dancers and strong physical attackers were giving me headaches since Gyarados lacked the bulk to take them on, so I switched to this. Needless to say, it fit perfectly. It's probably the weirdest Gyarados set ever used, apart from the double status one that TV-Rocka used once, but that was just stupid. I love this guy to death, it does an admirable job of checking nearly every physical threat in the metagame, and is probably one of the best Volcarona counters in OU. It's always my initial switch-in to Exadrill, taking pittance from even Rock Slide. I've lost count of how many Scarf Rotom-Ws I've caught and destroyed on the switch, effectively neutering them. Gyarados is also an excellent phazer, getting rid of potential trouble makers like DD Scrafty, DD Gyarados, DD Dragonite etc. It gives me another valuable check to rain, paralyzing Politoed goes a long way in helping Tyranitar get rid of it, and it also completely shuts down Gliscor.

    The EVs and nature are tailored to make Gyarados as physically bulky as possible in order for it to be able to check Excadrill and the like. Waterfall provides a solid STAB move and synergises well with Thunder Wave thanks to its flinch rate. Thunder Wave is simply an all around great move, and since almost no Ground type will switch into Gyarados, there's literally no reason not to use it. Dragon Tail is for phazing and getting some damage on the likes of Dragonite and Rotom-W, while Taunt shuts down stall and prevents Ferrothorn and Skarmory from setting up.


    [​IMG]
    Hydreigon@Expert Belt
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Flamethrower
    - Focus Blast
    - Dark Pulse

    The focus of the team, and its astounding power and coverage makes it one of the best wall-breakers in the game. If Hydreigon pulls its weight in a match, I will very rarely lose. It is incredibly easy to feign a choice item on this guy since I have actually never seen a Hydreigon without Life Orb or Specs/Scarf. Tyranitar switches into Dark Pulse? OHKO next turn with Focus Blast. Heatran looking to get a free boost from Flamethrower? Offensive versions are OHKOed by Focus Blast. Jellicent looking to tank a Flamethrower? KO the next turn with Dark Pulse. The list goes on. It gives me yet another check to rain, and destroys the Gliscor / Rotom-W / Jirachi core that has become the norm these days. Nothing in the game barring Blissey can switch into this guy without being 2HKOed by the appropriate move, and the beauty of Expert Belt means that I can actually afford to mispredict. The sole reason for most of my victories, this guy deserves more love.

    The EVs and nature give him maximum damage output the special side, with enough speed to outrun Adamant Haxorus and tie with max speed base 85s. The four moves provide optimum coverage. Draco Meteor packs insane power, even without Specs. I have tried Fire Blast over Flamethrower for more power and to get the definite 2HKO on specially defensive Jirachi, but I prefer the consistency of Flamethrower. Dark Pulse provides a reliable STAB move and OHKOs Reuniclus and Celebi. Focus Blast is for those steel types that Flamethrower isn't super effective against, and destroys Rock types such as Terrakion and Tyranitar.

    Conclusion

    In closing, I'd just like to thank the people who have made my time at smogon so far worthwhile, and in particular my oldest friends who have stuck by me throughout our rise from noobs to community members: Bluewind, Folgorio, franky, and Delta2777. I don't think I'll be using this team much anymore, maybe if I feel like getting a kick out of paralyzing random Rotom-Ws on the ladder. It has been incredibly fun while it lasted, and will always be known as the beginning of Hydreigon's domination over mankind. Hope you enjoyed reading this, rate, steal, etc. Threat list below.
  2. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 Sitting on a cornflake
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    Threatlist Taken from PK's RMT :)

    [​IMG] Breloom: I usually sack my most dispensable Pokemon at that point to the sleep, from there either Celebi or Gyarados can handle it fine.

    [​IMG] Blissey: Gyarados Taunts it to render it useless. Excadrill and Conkeldurr use most versions as set up bait, while Hydreigon can 2HKO with Focus Blast after some prior damage. Tyranitar can also go for the quick kill with Superpower.

    [​IMG] Bronzong: Hydreigon lures it in decently, if it switches into Dark Pulse or Focus Blast it can be KOed next turn by Flamethrower. Gyarados shuts it down, Conkeldurr and Celebi set up.

    [​IMG] Celebi: Hydreigon is one of the best counters to this guy. Hates paralysis, but that is uncommon on Celebi these days. Tyranitar defeats it quite easily.

    [​IMG] Conkeldurr: Gyarados and Celebi are full stops to most versions. My own Conkeldurr can defeat it, Hydreigon isn't KOed by a +1 Mach Punch and does a lot back with Draco Meteor.

    [​IMG]Deoxys-S: Tricky. It's usually used as a lead so I send out Hydreigon if I'm feeling ballsy. Hydreigon survives Life Orb Ice Beam or Superpower and OHKOs back with Dark Pulse. Otherwise I go to Celebi who can take any of its attacks and KO back. If it sets up hazards, I set up rocks alongside it.

    [​IMG] Excadrill: Gyarados, Excadrill and Conkeldurr are all great checks. Celebi handles versions without X-Scissor while Hydreigon can survive an unboosted X-Scissor and OHKO back.

    [​IMG]Ferrothorn: Hydreigon OHKOs with Flamethrower. Gyarados shuts it down with Taunt and Conkeldurr sets up on it. Tyranitar severely weakens it with Superpower while Celebi 2HKOs with HP Fire.

    [​IMG] Forretress: Again, Hydreigon OHKOs. Conkeldurr, Celebi and Excadrill all set up in its face, Gyarados shuts it down but doesn't like Volt Switch.

    [​IMG] Gengar: It usually comes in on Conkeldurr. Disable versions sub on the payback and then Disable at which point I switch to Scarftar and KO it. Gyarados also isn't 2HKOed so it can alternate between Waterfall and Dragon Tail. SubSplit is far easier to handle since it can't OHKO Celebi who OHKOs back.

    [​IMG] Gliscor: Facade versions can be a nuisance, but Gyarados is as solid a counter as you can get. Hydreigon comes pretty close to OHKOing, Conkeldurr lures it out and severely weakens it.

    [​IMG] Gyarados: My own Gyarados Dragon Tails it out. Bounce versions are paralyzed. Celebi and Excadrill check it well, Hydreigon resists Waterfall and OHKOs after SR.

    [​IMG] Haxorus: DD versions are handily defeated by Gyarados. CB versions are tougher since they 2HKO Gyara, so I go to Gyara and then Excadrill. Can be annoying.

    [​IMG] Heatran: It always switches into Hydreigons Flamethrower and gets destroyed next turn. Gyarados is a solid counter, Conkeldurr survives Fire Blast and recovers plenty of health back through Drain Punch.

    [​IMG] Hydreigon: Expert Belt versions can be troubling ;) Gyarados can switch into most of its moves, survive a DM and paralyze it to render it useless. Conkeldurr cant switch in but survives DM. Tyranitar can switch into DM and revenge kill.

    [​IMG] Infernape: Gyarados is the best nape counter. Excadrill revenge kills, but it usually switches in on Celebi only to be koed by Psychic.

    [​IMG] Jellicent: It often switches in on a Focus Blast or Flamethrower from Hydreigon and takes a Dark Pulse the the face. Conkeldurr beats it, and Excadrill always beats it if it switches in trying to spin-block. Celebi gets a relatively free switch-in.

    [​IMG] Jirachi: Specially defensive ones can be really annoying if they start spamming Body Slam. Hydreigon usually lures it in and 2HKOs, and Gyarados can paralyze it which helps. I usually HP Fire it a couple of times with Celebi to force it to wish at which point I switch in Excadrill.

    [​IMG] Kingdra: DD Kingdra is paralyzed and Dragon Tailed by Gyarados. Same goes for Chesto Rest. Gyarados can also survive a DM from more offensive ones and paralyze. Celebi survives any of its attacks and does a ton back with Leaf Storm. Tyranitar can switch into Draco Meteor from offensive versions, neuter its speed and KO with Stone Edge.

    [​IMG]: Kyurem: Scarf versions in hail are very annoying since I don't have an Ice resist. Conkeldurr can take on most versions, Tyranitar can Pursuit for good damage, Gyarados can survive any of its hits and paralyze.

    [​IMG] Landorus: Celebi checks Sub versions, Gyarados easily takes Choice Scarf versions. Excadrill and Tyranitar check SD versions. It can't set up on much and RP, so that's not really a problem.

    [​IMG] Latias: Tyranitar easily defeats all versions.

    [​IMG] Latios: I have to sacrifice most of Tyranitars health to defeat it, but it's worth it. If one of my pokes is dispensable, I usually sac them to get Tar in safely.

    [​IMG] Magnezone: Can't trap anything, free switch-in for a lot of my Pokemon.

    [​IMG] Mew: Hydreigon. SD versions are handled by Gyarados. Celebi does a lot with Leaf Storm.

    [​IMG] Ninetales: I never lead with Tyranitar to give the scarf away. I sometimes lead so that I can Pursuit for good damage, but usually I prefer to outright ohko them. Hydreigon beats it, while Celebi lures it in and does a lot with Psychic.

    [​IMG] Politoed: Scarf versions with HP Electric can be a pain. As long as I manage to paralyze it with Gyara, Tyranitar has a much easier time bringing it down. Celebi and Hydreigon both switch into its Water attacks without much fuss.

    [​IMG] Reuniclus: Trick Room is very problematic. I have to play perfectly to avoid losing a Pokemon during this phase. Defensive CM versions can also cause problems since Tyranitar's Crunch doesn't do as much as I'd like. Hydreigon OHKOs with Dark Pulse if they haven't got a boost up. I usually need to sack something to get rid of this guy.

    [​IMG] Rotom-W: In Celebi and Hydreigon I have the two best Rotom-W counters in the game. Gyarados usually lures it in and paralyzes it, rendering it useless.

    [​IMG] Salamence: Mixmence is always dangerous. Tyranitar can switch into a Fire Blast and OHKO with Stone Edge or Pursuit for good damage. Celebi can take a Fire Blast and KO back with Psychic after SR. DD versions can't setup on anything except choice locked Tyranitar. Gyarados can take an Outrage and paralyze it. Lum Berry versions are just Dragon Tailed. Excadrill revenges.

    [​IMG] Scizor: Hydreigon lures it in, Gyarados is a 100 percent counter.

    [​IMG] Scrafty: Gyarados. Tyranitar, Excadrill and Conkeldurr can all revenge.

    [​IMG] Sigilyph: Hydreigon is immune to Stored Power. Tyranitar does a ton even after a CP, while Gyarados can Taunt its attempts to Psycho Shift.

    [​IMG] Skarmory: Hydreigon lures it in. Conkeldurr does around 50 with a +1 Drain Punch. Celebi 2HKOs with HP Fire after SR, and Gyarados shuts it down. Excadrill spins Spikes away.

    [​IMG] Slowbro: Set up bait for Celebi, Hydreigon OHKOs. Very troublesome for my physical attackers and Gyarados though.

    [​IMG] Starmie: I switch in Celebi first and then Tyranitar on the Ice Beam. Then the Pursuit/Crunch mindgame. Defensive versions are far easier to handle. Hydreigon can also survive an LO Ice Beam.

    [​IMG] Terrakion: All versions are revenge killed by Conkeldurr. Excadrill and Tyranitar check SD ones. Gyarados can take an unboosted Stone Edge and either paralyze or Waterfall.

    [​IMG] Thundurus: Celebi survives a +2 HP Ice and KOs back with Psychic after SR. Tyranitar can switch into HP Ice and KO back with Stone Edge. Excadrill can switch into Thunderbolt and do the same.

    [​IMG] Tornadus: Specs versions are troublesome since they usually spam U-turn and weaken Tyranitar. Tyranitar can revenge kill though, as can Excadrill. Gyarados can survive a Hurricane an paralyze. Huge threat.

    [​IMG] Tyranitar: Lead versions are OHKOed by my own barring the odd Chople. Celebi OHKOs most versions with Leaf Storm, while Hydreigon lures in and KOs with Focus Blast. Conkeldurr sets up.

    [​IMG] Victini: Tricky to switch into, I usually go to Gyarados to take the V-create/U-turn. Fusion Bolt can be fatal, but they don't usually spam that due to the threat of Excadrill.

    [​IMG] Virizion: Celebi does about 45 after one CM, then I send in TTar on the HP Ice and KO with Superpower. SD versions are countered by Celebi and Gyarados. Excadrill and Conkeldurr revenge kill weakened ones.

    [​IMG] Volcarona: Gyarados is as solid as a counter you can get. HP Rock versions are troublesome, but Tyranitar can survive a +1 Bug Buzz and KO back. Can be a bit of a bother
  3. MetaGross66

    MetaGross66

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    551
    Wow, this is actually a really nice team.

    I was staring at this for a few minutes trying to think of a threat the team hasn't covered, and there aren't many, but ironically, Trick Room Reuniclus seems to give you some trouble. lol

    It hits 5 out of the 6 members of your team for Super Effective damage and outspeeds them after setting up on Conkeldurr, -2 Celebi, unboosted Excadrill, or even Tyranitar's Superpower. Gyarados isn't taking Psychic all that well either (I think it's 2KOed without SR). I guess your best bet is stalling out Trick Room, but if your prediction isn't perfect, it's taking out some members of your team.

    To be honest, this is difficult to fix without adding something like Jirachi, but you lose a lot of offensive presence. Scizor could work out. It lures in Gliscor and can U-turn out of it. Stealth Rock damage will rack up on it, and with Excadrill keeping the field free of hazards you won't have to worry much. It is kind of redundant with Scarftar, though. I'm seeing Conkeldurr as the most replaceable member right now (you said it's main job is to lure in Gliscor). However, you probably also use it to check Lucario and opposing Excadrill.

    My only other recommendation is Recover on Celebi. You're not taking boosted Hydro Pumps and Ice Beams for long with that set. Recover lets you repeatedly switch in and fire off those Leaf Storms. The issue is what to replace it with. Psychic lets you nail those dragons and the genies. Maybe replace HP Fire? Hydreigon already does a good job of luring in Scizor and Ferrothorn and roasting them alive. Do you really need HP Fire?

    In all, this is an awesome team and hope you take these suggestions into consideration. gl . ^_^
  4. animenagai

    animenagai
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
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    Pretty cool team dude.

    I am a little confused about your gyarados, can you tell me a bit more about what it does? It's obvious that it has good defensive synergy on your team, but offensively it's an odd man out imo. What can this thing para? Well, popular switchins to gyara would be skarm, ferrothorn, rotom-w, politoed, slowbro and maybe celebi. T-wave doesn't really hurt them. Even if it manages to hit rotom, it wouldn't be achieving much. This team really doesn't have much problems against rotom with both celebi and hydreigon. Dragon tail is also a bit underwhelming when you don't have spikes to go with it. It just seems to me that slowbro or mixmence would do more in this slot. Even if you think mence makes you a lil more mole weak, you still have conckeldurr to back you up. Just my 2c.
  5. Smurf.

    Smurf.
    is a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
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    650
    having seen this team in action on occasion its definitely a great team, you obviously know it like the back of your hand. Don't have anything really to add, this team is complete. definitely worth the long wait since your last rmt. all the best bro and looking forward to whatever you come up with next.
  6. Milking the Tank

    Milking the Tank

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    This is really a solid team. Not that many Pokemon are able to take this team by storm, unless a miss-play happens. There are some weaknesses to your party, but it doesn't and wouldn't seem that they would stay long anyways. Maybe add a Flame Orb to Conkeldurr to give it an extra kick to it's attack? Nevertheless, it is a great team.
  7. Tomahawk

    Tomahawk Life is like a hurricane
    is a Team Rater Alumnus
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    Very cool team.
    Looking at your threat list, one Pokemon that could fix most of these problems is a Specially Defensive Skarmory. It beats Trick Room Reuniclus as the only move that's even neutral is Focus Blast. It beats Tornadus with a Flying-resist as well as a U-turn resist and Fighting neutrality. It beats Virizion by surviving Focus Blast and KOing back with Brave Bird. It beats Terrakion if it chooses to Rock Polish, and if he Swords Dances, Tyranitar and Excadrill beat him. It beats DDMence, and MixMence if you can lure out a Draco Meteor. It beats Jirachi by walling it and not caring about paralysis and just setting up all over it. It beats Latios with a Dragon resist and okay special bulk with enough investment. It beats Haxorus with great physical bulk and a Dragon resist. It beats non-Taunt Gliscor by walling it, and outdamages Taunt Gliscor with Brave Bird. Finally, it beats Hydreigon if it lacks Flamethrower / Fire Blast or if you can lure out a DM. It still beats almost all of the things Gyarados used to beat, so I think you should consider it.

    Good luck.
  8. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

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    Hey there,

    It's been a while since I've rated so I may be off my game :P. From what I've seen it is a very solid team. Very interesting sets on Celebi and Gyarados which would have completely have caught me off guard. Looking at your threat list I see a couple of predominant threats: Specially Defensive Jirachi, Scarf Kyurem, Choice Specs Tornadus and Reuniclus in general. All of these are easily handled by a Specially Defensive Jirachi of your own (Other Jirachi's will usually end up in a PP stall however). Jirachi offers more paralysis support and can also benefit off Gyarados' paralysis.

    Specially Defensive Jirachi (open)


    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 216 SDef / 40 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Protect
    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head


    Looking at your threat list Conkeldurr seems to be rather redundant, you not relying on him to handle a certain threat solely. He too me seems the most replaceable, offering a Dragon resist, Ice resist and his weaknesses being covered well by your team. This does however leave you a bit more weak to Terrakion, especially Choice Band/Scarf that run Earthquake, but 4 for 1 sounds alright to me. Wish support also seems very useful for your team giving everyone a much needed form of recovery, something your team lacks outside of Leftovers.

    Finally there are some weird discrepancies in you threat list such as your Jellicent and Reuniclus description.

    GL
  9. tab

    tab ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus

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    ib93 :D
  10. dori

    dori

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    I'm very sure that there are a lot of stretches of battles at a time where you're not using a move on Tyranitar, probably Stone Edge or Pursuit. Stone Edge as the history of mankind realizes has shitty reliability and you're probably not using that unless you absolutely must revenge kill an Infernape or something, since Crunch is probably better 80% of the time. As for Pursuit, when most things see Tyranitar and assume they can finish it off, like Latios/Latias/Starmie/Thundurus, they assume they're faster anyways and will attack.

    I bring that all up because I think it's more important for you to use Recover on Celebi and Stealth Rock can easily be slapped on the Tyranitar.

    You absolutely need to heal Celebi somehow and you need all of it's coverage moves as well. The reason for this is the seemingly increasing numbers of U-Turn + Volt Switch spam. The Rotom-W back to Landorus back to Rotom-W will eventually destroy you. And if Celebi never heals itself from repeated Volt Switches, it will eventually rape the shit out of you.

    Also don't get too cocky with your Gyarados. It still gets OHKO'd by Hurricane after SR and Excadrill won't always pull off those Rapid Spins.
  11. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
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    Excellent team IB,

    I agree with Fried Rhys that Scizor will be an excellent replacement for Conkeldurr in order to handle the difficult threats in your threatlist. Although I think the bulkier set with Roost is preferred in order to take hits better. A spread of 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SDef and Leftovers with the moveset of Bullet Punch / Sword Dance / Roost / Bug Bite will fit very nicely.
    If you're worried about opposing Excadrill to be problematic without Conkeldurr's Mach Punch, you can always give yours a Jolly nature to outspeed them.

    Nice team and good luck.
  12. franky

    franky
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    congrats man! thanks for the mention. i have nothing to change in this team. a good team like this only tweaks two or three things to adjust to a counter like most great teams. i dont have much to suggest, but i'd imagine thunder wave > psychic on celebi to catch tornadus off guard, which could easily help your team. it can catch other things too like volcarono and dragonite. not much to say! its a good team homie.
  13. The Tyranitar

    The Tyranitar

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    I caught someone using your team against me XD I lost but I think you are slightly Latias weak....
  14. BKC

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    CM Reuniclus looks like it can really give you a hard time once it grabs a boost, which it can do easily versus Ttar's choice locked Superpower, you won't be able to sufficiently damage it and unless you get lucky, it'll slowly boost+recover+attack its way to victory. Trick Room sets are also tricky because they force you to predict extremely well or you'll get demolished. Fast variants of Nasty Plot Celebi can also really give you hell; like Reuniclus, they get free setup versus Tyranitar locked into Superpower and your only method of outspeeding it (bar the Ttar that will be switching out) is Excadrill, who will not be doing sufficient damage with Rock Slide; if played well, Celebi will kill at least 2 members of your team before going down.

    My suggestion is to try specially defensive Jirachi in Celebi's place because Rachi can still set up rocks. At first thought you might be opposed to this because Celebi is your main rain counter, but Rachi actually tanks the two biggest threats from those kinds of teams, Tornadus and Thundurus. With T-Wave Gyara and Scarf Tyranitar alongside it, I think you should be fine versus rain.

    Anyways, lets address how Rachi helps your team out. Reuniclus won't be able to do significant damage while it is para-flinched to death; Celebi gets the same treatment, as even a +2 Earth Power, the strongest attack it can throw at you, will not KO. Jirachi's great synergy with Gyarados also means it can pass wishes with ease, greatly increasingly his longevity and enabling him to repeatedly do his job of tanking physical threats.

    Jirachi @ Leftovers | Careful | EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Wish | Stealth Rock | Body Slam | Iron Head

    Just something to consider; this is a great team and props for using Hydreigon. Oh yeah and I gave you a luvdisc but thats not important. Good luck bro!
  15. Eternal

    Eternal
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    Hey there IB93, you have a really solid team. I especially like the originality you've put to use on this team. Most threats like Specs Latios and Starmie are handily stopped by playing cleverly with the Choice Scarf Tyranitar. Trick Room Reuniclus is a very big problem to the team, but as long as you predict well and play cleverly again you should be able to stop it from sweeping your whole team. While I agree with Fried Rhys on SD Scizor and Dezza Laa's suggestion on specially defensive Jirachi would be a great addition to this team, but replacing Conkeldurr brings in many other issues to the team. One thing is that the team will have a lot more problems dealing with opposing Excadrill (since you won't have the priority Mach Punch to stop it). As well as having a safe switch in to opposing Tyranitar. It also allows the team to stop Cloyster from easily sweeping. So yea, that wouldn't be the best solution to this team.

    The biggest problem I see that this team has is playing against stall teams. Choice Scarf Tyranitar is easily walled by Gliscor, Skarmory, Hippowdon, etc. Conkeldurr is walled by Gliscor, Celebi, Slowbro, Reuniclus, etc. Celebi is walled by Heatran, Lati@s, Blissey/Chansey, etc. Excadrill is walled by Gliscor, Skarmory, Hippowdon, Bronzong, etc. Gyarados is walled by Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Starmie, etc. And finally, Hydreigon is walled by Blissey or Chansey. Also, Conkeldurr, Celebi, Gyarados, and Hydreigon all take damages from the Sandstorm, and both Tyranitar and Excadrill lack Leftovers. While none of your Pokemon have any way of recovering back their HP or recovering from status attacks (only Celebi is with Natural Cure). So yea, stall teams are this team's biggest problem.

    There are a couple of thing you could do to fix this problem. Like use a mixed Infernape set over Conkeldurr (while you're still being able to use the priority Mach Punch and being able to cripple stall team). Here's the set:

    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Infernape @ Life Orb -- Blaze/Iron Fist
    Nature: Hasty - EVs: 224 Atk / 144 SAtk / 140 Spd
    Flamethrower
    Mach Punch
    Close Combat
    Grass Knot


    You could also try Iron Fist as its ability to increase the power of Mach Punch and be able to OHKO opposing Excadrill. Only problem with this is that Infernape takes damage from the Sandstorm and is harmed by the Life Orb recoil. Which doesn't quite make it an efficient sweeper for this team.

    You could also replace Hydreigon for Choice Specs Latios. Latios can carry Trick, which would allow you to cripple stall better. Latios is also faster and much more powerful with Choice Specs than Expert Belt Hydreigon.

    Another option is a pretty cool one in my opinion. You could try a Mixed Virizion set over Hydreigon. Mixed Virizion will not only help against opposing stall, it will help you beat many other opposing Sandstorm and Rain teams. Here's the Virizion set:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Virizion @ Life Orb -- Justified
    Nature: Naive - EVs: 200 Atk / 52 SAtk / 252 Spd
    - Swords Dance
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Leaf Blade
    - Close Combat

    This set will allow you beat many standard stall teams that rely on Blissey/Chansey, Gliscor, Hippowdon, Rotom-W, Slowbro, and many other walls.

    Try them out, they should really help you out against the stall weakness. Great team good luck man! ^_^
  16. Evire

    Evire

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    I don't see much wrong with the team and as you stated you have covered most of the biggest threats, very nice team!
  17. Linkjuhh

    Linkjuhh

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    We aren't in August 2010.
  18. Agammemnon

    Agammemnon A wild Zubat appears!
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    Hi, Adamant CB Haxorus does 46.1% - 54.5% to Gyarados with Outrage.

    Have a nice day.
  19. Linkjuhh

    Linkjuhh

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    spectios,thundurus ?
  20. Delko

    Delko "ghost mod"
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    Read threatlist please, thanks.
  21. Agammemnon

    Agammemnon A wild Zubat appears!
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    Dear Linkjuhh,

    SpecsTios is handily destroyed by Tyranitar, taking 106% - 125.8% on the Pursuit.
    Unsuspecting Thundurus can be destroyed by a Stone Edge or RKd with Excadrill. Moreover, Celebi's Stealth Rock disallows it to make infinite comebacks on the battlefield.
    Celebi takes 37.4% - 44.4% from non-LO Thundurus HP Ice, allowing it to fire back some lovely things.

    Please don't mention threats without analyzing the team.

    INB4 HAUNTER
  22. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    I told you dawg, I told you about that Hydreigon

    All joking aside I literally cannot add anything to this magnificent team. All of the "Hydreigon" haters should eat their hearts out. That thing is really good. That Gyarados is pretty cool, and I can remember getting my ass served by it on several occasions. I guess you could use Scizoe over Conkeldurr to check several of your most prominent checks. IDK its up to you really.
    Em, I don't see why Stoned Edge is being over Rock Slide. You don't lose out on any KOs, you have more accuracy and you can even flinch.

    Awesome team man.
  23. ITSU

    ITSU

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    Lawl @in b4 haunter :]

    I agree that you should put in Sdef Rachi. I also think that Eternals solutions definitely deserve a try, considering how they are underused but affective sets IMo.

    Gl with the team bro. I wish i could teambuild like you
  24. Heist

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    i remember playing this team for frontier and you couldnt break my rain stall team. i dont think there was any specific pokemon that caused you trouble - as you seem to cover all of those defensive pkmn individually but not when used together.

    i think the main reason was that your water resists had no reliable form of recovery and i was able to weaken them enough with rain-boosted water attacks, that my substitute/protect gliscor was able to clean up the mess in the end, as your best gliscor switches are the ones you would use to take boosted water attacks. i would suggest recover > psychic on celebi as it will really enhance its staying power against rain teams.

    i definitely disagree with jirachi > celebi as that further compounds the issues with rain, especially considering jirachi adds a second pkmn ferrothorn switches in on for free.

    conkeldurr was your only real chance at breaking through me and by replacing that with infernape [who is hard countered by the bold tentacruel you find on rain teams, and another number of pkmn if rain is up] is not the answer.

    honestly, theres not too much that can be changed.. if i was using this team id pretty much automatically replace hydreigon and gyarados for brick break/dm/fire blast/roost salamence and volt switch/wow/hpump/ps rotom-w, maybe just because i prefer using those two, but hydreigon is definitely a cool pkmn and i think youre abusing it in the best possible way, where its not outclassed by its faster dragon counterparts.

    cool team man!
  25. IronBullet93

    IronBullet93 Sitting on a cornflake
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    Thanks for the rates guys.

    @MetaGross: Thanks bro, yes TR Reuniclus gives my team a lot of grief. I have to play pretty much perfectly to avoid losing a Pokemon during this phase. It wouldn't hurt to try Scizor, and the ice resistance is definitely worth it. Also testing Recover>Psychic on Celebi.

    @animenagai: Gyarados is not meant to act solely as a lure to the Pokemon you mentioned. It's one of the best physical tanks in the metagame right now, essentially my best answer to SD Scizor, SD Excadrill, and every single DDer. Dragon Tail doesn't need to be used with spikes, since I mainly use it to get rid of set up sweepers, not accumulate hazard damage. It also wears down Rotom surprisingly quickly, stripping off a fifth of its health which in tandem with SR isn't too shabby. Slowbro is an interesting choice and I will definitely test it, but Volcarona becomes a much bigger problem. Thanks for the rate!

    @Smurf: 9.9 thanks man

    @Milking the Tank: I really need the Lefties on Conk, as Flame Orb + SS will wear it down to quickly for comfort.

    @Tomahawk: Skarmory is definitely interesting. The only concern I have is that Volcarona becomes a much bigger issue, although Skarm can severely weaken it with BB if at full health. I will test out Scizor with Gyara and Conkeldurr with Skarm. Thanks for the rate!

    @Dezza: Fixed that, thanks. Wish support will help my team a great deal, and Sp Def Jirachi synchronizes perfectly with physically defensive Gyarados. It will also help out a great deal against Kyurem and Reuniclus. Although, I will miss the priority against Excadrill, Terrakion and the like. Definitely worth a test.

    @Fried Rhys, Delko: Thanks for the rates guys, I will test out both the offensive LO and the specially defensive SD sets on Scizor.

    @tab: 9.9

    @dori: This actually sounds quite promising, retaining the coverage on Celebi and gaining instant recovery will be priceless. And yeah as I've said in the threat list Tornadus is a big headache. Thanks.

    @franky: Thanks a lot bud, yeah I have been in situations where Thunder Wave would have been a life saver. Will test this.

    @The Tyranitar: How ironic that Tyranitar is a full stop to Latias :P

    @BKC: Ok so specially defensive Jirachi has a lot of potential on this team. From what I've gathered from yours and Dezza's rates, I have decided to test Jirachi over Conkeldurr instead, since this will allow me to use Protect. Thanks a lot man!

    @Eternal: Stall hasn't actually troubled me a whole lot, due to the fact that Excadrill can spin hazards away with tremendous ease. It does seem to trouble me a lot on paper, and I haven't actually played against a lot of stall teams. I like the Infernape suggestion, since I retain Mach Punch and gain a valuable wall-breaker. I will miss the bulk that I Conkeldurr had, but Infernape also helps out with my Sp Def Jirachi problem. Definitely worth testing out, but I don't find that Virizion too appealing, since it does lack the power without a boosting move. Thanks for the rate!

    @Agammemnon: Thanks for the Haxorus calc, although I'm not sure what you're trying to say, whether Gyarados can avoid the 2HKO from Haxorus, or whether it's a shaky counter, which is shown by my threat list.

    @PK: I prefer Stone Edge over Rock Slide as I enjoy the extra damage I get against Politoed, Haxorus, Rotom-W and the like. Can't hurt to test it out though, thanks dude.

    @Heist: Yeah that rain stall team made me tear my hair out, and it didn't help that I was battling at 1 in the morning. Salamence and Rotom-W actually has a lot of potential over what I currently have. Sounds very promising, I will definitely test this out. Thanks bro!

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