NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

[Wayan Vistar]

I'm complaining to you because YOU put it at L-1, and since Celever is confirmed to me, L-2 isn't that much of an issue as Fire Mafia can't blitz me if it's one of them voting me.

 

[acidphoenix]

...what are you talking about? I am extremely confused.

 

[rssp1]

Alright so before I start i read everything and yeah jumpluff is almost certainly town (but you all already knew that, didn't you?)
Now, my thoughts on who is more likely to be UTO's scumpartner...

What the hell is this mass pm shit ._.

Regarding how up-to-date I've kept myself: I've tried to read through the thread as much as I've been able to since I was pretty sure I'd be subbed in at some point. I'm not at my computer right now, which makes typing up a massive wall of text quite difficult, but I guess I can throw some thoughts down for now and then elaborate when I make it to my computer.

Right now my biggest scumread is PokeguyNXB. As someone else pointed out above (I wanna say it was Spiffy?), he's being uncharacteristically lazy and not even trying at all. "Lol I suck" is a terrible excuse, one that I myself have used numerous times in the past as scum when I didn't feel like making shit up. In his most recent post, he says "don't expect me to say things that haven't already been said." Well that's the thing, dude. We aren't. We're expecting you to parrot people's opinions like you always do when you're town. The fact that you're flat-out refusing to contribute anything of note isn't just a red flag, it's a fucking tornado siren.

Unlynch whatever Hannahh's RVS vote was
Lynch PokeguyNXB

Reading strong town on Yeti, slight town on TIK and Sam, slight scum on Spiffy and Gale. Null on everyone else. A lot of that's just gut, I'll look through the thread a bit more and elaborate when I can make it to a computer (prolly in an hourish)

In other news, this is the first NOC I've played in a long goddamned time. Let's hope I've magically become less garbage over that timespan!

So Walrein just straight up calls out Pokeguy and tries (but fails) to get a lynch on him. With how willing he was to switch, I can see this as Walrein trying to bus - but he could have also just been opportunistic and willing to go with whichever lynch was occurring.

Yeti Celever and acidphoenix are essentially #3 and #4 on my list, just a lot further down than the other 2

Brings up Celever as a possible scum, but doesn't delve into it too much. Keeping partners as slight scum is often something one mafia does for the other.

This is just false. I've been trying to lynch UltrasPlot all day and I've provided several reasons why he's scum.

The reason why I ignored U-Turn Out is because it's too early to draw any conclusions from his posts: thus far they've been fairly bland townie if I'm being honest and I don't have any strong feelings about him at all. This was even truer at the time of making that post. Honestly I think that thus far U-Turn Out seems very towny but Walrein was questionable, so I'm not sure about his alignment. However, there are far better lynch targets today, so why he has any votes on him is a total mystery to me. UncleSam said it was for pressure, but U-Turn Out is actually contributing.

Anyway, glad to see we've got some subs. sunny004 I had a very strong townread on Pokeguy, so it'd be nice to have some opinions from someone I can really trust. Yeti made a really good summary at the top of page 28 on the general consensus on users, though I must say that I disagree with a couple of them, but a couple of my opinions aren't too popular.

While I would really love to lynch UltrasPlot (or now rssp1) today, the only scumread which we are really agreed upon is DLE and, well, me, fsr. As such, I think that DLE wouldn't be a bad target for us to go for today. I want to see some contributions from the newbies before the night, but it's going to take a bit of time to catch up on things, and we really don't have much to talk about right now until they contribute.

If someone has something they want me to talk about just point it out to me.

I actually don't remember why i quoted this.
I'm just going to keep it here in case I remember.

I also feel like I actually quoted more of Walrein's posts but apparently I didn't find many connections to alive players in his posts.

So basically, Walrein had gone after Pokeguy and kept Celever as a "slight scum" but Walrein didn't have Celever as someone he went after, so i'm thinking Celever's a more likely scumpartner for UTO (looks like I made a 180 in my views.... could you say it was.... a u-turn!??)
But yeah, just the way Celever immediately reacted with disbelief to UTO's doc claim and then how he was immediately willing to accept my claim even after he's been pushing to get my lynched almost constantly seemed incredibly weird. It seemed even more weird when he was thinking that I was almost certainly scum, and yet at the same time possibly the doctor; i'm not sure why any townie would pursue a lynch on someone they thought had a good chance to be doc.

I'll post anything else I have when I get back.

 

[realiti]

So personal attacks aside, you're telling me that I haven't done anything useful and that i'm not reading carefully because i think there's a chance that jumpluff could not be town.
I mean, as far as I see it we've done the same thing - express a couple scumreads with meager evidence, and then defend ourselves a lot. You also can't exactly say that i'm trying to not contribute unless you're somehow a mind-reader - and I doubt that. Also, I think it's arguably one of the most stupid things you could do to automatically clear someone. Yes, you can state that they're incredibly townie and that you probably won't get anything from them, but just going "eh, they're 100% town" and not looking to see if there's anything scummy is stupid. Sure, perhaps spending your time on doing so may be wasteful, but in some cases, its the key to winning games (when playing against skilled mafia).
I also have no idea what you're trying to get at when you say "i'm sorry if im doing exactly what you dont want" since there isn't really anything in that post addressed to you.

Please tell me where I have made a personal attack on you. Disliking a playstyle and considering it antitown is far from a personal attack. The part where you mention "express a couple scumreads with meager evidence" is very interesting to me. I have not seen you made a single scum read apart from me (which really shouldn't count), and jumpluff (the cleanest town BY FAR). And yes, I can't say that you're not trying to contribute with 100% confidence, but from my point of view I just find it like you're not putting too much effort into changing and trying to help the town (which I had a problem in the middle of Day 2 but have then changed). It may not look like it from your PoV, but that's how I view it. And no it's not stupid, I have been here ever since jumpluff subbed in, all of her posts are amazing, can't find anything scummy about them. It's 100% in my eyes, I looked at everything she posted, including all of the walls, it's not in your eyes. Fine. Find something that would make me consider the chance. When I said "i'm sorry if im doing exactly what you dont want" I was talking about the part where you say "its not a stalling post" because I felt like it was; I have already mentioned why I think so and do not want to repeat myself again.

I honestly didn't think it showed that I was doctor, I was angling for the concerned villager persona. Then again, I am apparently not good at hiding that i'm the doc, even though I dont see anywhere that I softclaimed or implied that I was doc.
I also remember something asking me to find all the posts where i softed doc, although I can't find the post (yay me)

so to answer that....

I never intentionally softed that I was the doc, yet apparently I play cautiously and that makes me seem doccy. I don't have any posts to bring up.
In all seriousness though, I think thats just my playstyle on forum mafia, go look at fallout (where I was alive for 1 day before i got subbed bc rip computer) and my playstyle should be the same.

Playing cautiously is what made you more scummy imo. Knowing that TIK and UltrasPlot have been playing incredibly aggressive and have upset many people, it is possible that you felt the need to play it extremely cautiously because you were afraid people who were already against you would jump on you and lynch you.

UTO you think luff is definite town, and if PokeguyNXB wasn't scrum then her/Celever was? And Celever was the one who voted? And that there aren't enough Fire Mafia to QH off my one vote, WHICH was first? And why the he'll are you telling at me and not Celever? The more you talk the more scummy you seem over here.. right now you + Pokeguy seems the most likely to me.

Also, from my PoV, lynching the villy or lynching the scum cc are equal, since I proceed to kill the other of the two.

Also to keep in mind: lynching docs helps against scumpluff. I'm fine with switching to one of them if you want and as I just said doc which.

The fact that he questioned whether I actually killed US in a way that to me didn't seem as intentional deception.
Also, he's at L-2, and why are you complaining to me and not to Celever, considering that you've established that Celever is scum, meaning there aren't enough scum to hammer?

Also UTO calling me anti-town is extremely hilarious to me

No, rssp1 and Celever would be scum. And you started the lynch for no reason when we have so much time? And I was just using it as an example? And I was telling on Celever as well, in my short 4 line post which isnt hard to understand at all? I would say you keep getting scummier, but unfortunately we already know your true alliance, so there's no point...please also tell me why you are trying to tell me you're killing either me or rssp1 the next night and just don't care what who gets lynched, rssp1 or me, when you VOTED POKEGUY and why you are revealing your master plan to us all for no reason? and lol to the antitown thing

I'm really bored right now so posting random crap

After thinking about it more I decided that it would be better to kill either Celever or Jumpluff if we kill a fake doctor, because then the Fire Mafia have 25% win chances if they aim for me instead of fifty, due to the chance I hit the doc target.

If the real doc or a real villager is lynched then I'll at least take a fire down with me, rip me.

If the fake villy is killed I'll kill the real villager(not luff) for the same reasons I would kill Celever or fluff on fake doc lynch.

After typing all this I really understand how important it is for Fire to be lynched for me as well as town.

I'm confused by the first line. What do you mean if you hit the doc target? You're saying that you would rather just hit it instead of killing the actual doctor? Please explain

Alright so before I start i read everything and yeah jumpluff is almost certainly town (but you all already knew that, didn't you?)
Now, my thoughts on who is more likely to be UTO's scumpartner...


So Walrein just straight up calls out Pokeguy and tries (but fails) to get a lynch on him. With how willing he was to switch, I can see this as Walrein trying to bus - but he could have also just been opportunistic and willing to go with whichever lynch was occurring.


Brings up Celever as a possible scum, but doesn't delve into it too much. Keeping partners as slight scum is often something one mafia does for the other.


I actually don't remember why i quoted this.
I'm just going to keep it here in case I remember.

I also feel like I actually quoted more of Walrein's posts but apparently I didn't find many connections to alive players in his posts.

So basically, Walrein had gone after Pokeguy and kept Celever as a "slight scum" but Walrein didn't have Celever as someone he went after, so i'm thinking Celever's a more likely scumpartner for UTO (looks like I made a 180 in my views.... could you say it was.... a u-turn!??)
But yeah, just the way Celever immediately reacted with disbelief to UTO's doc claim and then how he was immediately willing to accept my claim even after he's been pushing to get my lynched almost constantly seemed incredibly weird. It seemed even more weird when he was thinking that I was almost certainly scum, and yet at the same time possibly the doctor; i'm not sure why any townie would pursue a lynch on someone they thought had a good chance to be doc.

I'll post anything else I have when I get back.

Do you have other reasoning other than a Walrein's slight scumread which could have also been completely honest? By the same logic, you are reading Celever as slight scum now; that must mean that you must be likely partners as well. And what happened to me and pokeguy team? Nothing? Well, at least we're agreeing on Celever's strange bevahior.

jumpluff I have read your posts, I just don't know how to respond to them. If you want me to dig up doctor tell posts, I will, but if it really isn't needed I'll be focusing on some schoolwork for now and will be back later.

 

[acidphoenix]

I'm playing to prolong my life, not put myself in a kingmaker.

If I hit a doc target instead of the doc, then the Fire has to kill the doc, and are taking a risk by killing me that I hit the doc target, whereas otherwise killing me is the best play in every sense. If I hit the doc target and not get killed Fire's win chance is just as high as if they kill me and I miss the doc target, and I'm hoping not to hit a doc target.

Fire Mafia in case you haven't figure it out yet if we lynch your fake doc kill real doc.

And that post was quoting Pokeguy. If it was in response to you I would have quoted you.

I'm revealing my plan because it's obvious, and it helps against the sunbeams for Fire with a high win chance. Besides I needed to make sure Fire doesn't kill my target and that is worth town knowing my target

 

[acidphoenix]

Edit: apparently I didn't quote Pokeguy

But that is who I was responding to

 

[acidphoenix]

Oh oops missed the first quote, huh. More later b/c lunch just ended.

 

[rssp1]

Please tell me where I have made a personal attack on you. Disliking a playstyle and considering it antitown is far from a personal attack. The part where you mention "express a couple scumreads with meager evidence" is very interesting to me. I have not seen you made a single scum read apart from me (which really shouldn't count), and jumpluff (the cleanest town BY FAR). And yes, I can't say that you're not trying to contribute with 100% confidence, but from my point of view I just find it like you're not putting too much effort into changing and trying to help the town (which I had a problem in the middle of Day 2 but have then changed). It may not look like it from your PoV, but that's how I view it. And no it's not stupid, I have been here ever since jumpluff subbed in, all of her posts are amazing, can't find anything scummy about them. It's 100% in my eyes, I looked at everything she posted, including all of the walls, it's not in your eyes. Fine. Find something that would make me consider the chance. When I said "i'm sorry if im doing exactly what you dont want" I was talking about the part where you say "its not a stalling post" because I felt like it was; I have already mentioned why I think so and do not want to repeat myself again.


Playing cautiously is what made you more scummy imo. Knowing that TIK and UltrasPlot have been playing incredibly aggressive and have upset many people, it is possible that you felt the need to play it extremely cautiously because you were afraid people who were already against you would jump on you and lynch you.

Do you have other reasoning other than a Walrein's slight scumread which could have also been completely honest? By the same logic, you are reading Celever as slight scum now; that must mean that you must be likely partners as well. And what happened to me and pokeguy team? Nothing? Well, at least we're agreeing on Celever's strange bevahior.

You're telling me that I need to improve my reading comprehension and yet this post is telling me that you're ignoring or not fully reading my posts... not sure which one.
The way I saw the personal attacks is that you were just trashing the way I was playing, which is indeed a personal attack. Feel free to disagree, but i'm not changing my stance on that.
Also, cmon man, i've been scumreading acidphoenix from the last day after jumpluff argued against my point that acidphoenix as scum wouldn't be something that made a lot of sense. I then also slightly scumread both you and DLE at the end of that day, and have a scumread on Celever right now due to his recent postings.
I think a cautious playstyle is just the way I play, intentionally or not. This is another thing that neither of us can actually provide any strong evidence to support. Regardless, TIK and Ultras were townread by almost everyone - why would I play cautiously if that's a different playstyle than the one that got my subs townread by basically everyone but Celever?
I mean I did literally talk about Celever's posts right after I quoted Walrein's, but I guess you didn't read that either. The only thing i've found to link you to pokeguy is the fact that Walrein attacked pokeguy rather heavily and then backed off somewhat quickly. I didn't think that's a strong linkage in comparison to you and Celever, so I stated that Celever is likely your scumpartner.
Also RE: jumpluff, while certainly in this case pluff is almost certainly town, I still disagree that you should accept someone as town 100% (unless you're in one of those special cases I talked about) since they can still be scum. Yes, it's probably not the case in this game, but blindly accepting someone as town when they are not cleaned and you are town can be incredibly dangerous if that player is actually a really good mafia.

 

[acidphoenix]

Rssp1 and UTO fighting each other helps town not at all. Also helps me not at all.. the doc knows the other is scum, the other knows the doc is the doc. You guys are conf. scum in each other's POV

PokeguyNXB I still want to know what you were even talking about.

U-Turn Out rssp1 either push at one of the villy claims, volunteer yourself for being lynched, or explain why a lynch on your CC would be better than a villy lynch.

 

[rssp1]

Alright so both UTO and I have voiced our suspicions of Celever (although mine are only brought up by recent things) so I want Celever to explain why exactly he was thinking I was doc, and then why he kept trying to push for a lynch on me while still thinking I could be doc (unless it's just that you were thinking it was 99% chance i'm mafia 1% chance i'm doc in which case I guess that makes sense). I also want to know why he was willing to accept my docclaim so quickly while being suspicious of UTO's.

 

[rssp1]

I doubt that its pokeguy , so i'd also like to hear his reads on the rssp1/UTO situation.

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Okay acidphoenix I MEAN Celever is confirmed Fire Mafia to me. So therefore there is ALREADY a Fire Mafia voting me, leaving only one left that can hammer me, so being at L-2 if the person voting me is Fire Mafia is fine. But if someone who ISN'T Fire Mafia i.e YOU is voting me, the second Fire Mafia could easily hammer me. Does that answer what i'm talking about?

 

[Celever]

Alright so both UTO and I have voiced our suspicions of Celever (although mine are only brought up by recent things) so I want Celever to explain why exactly he was thinking I was doc, and then why he kept trying to push for a lynch on me while still thinking I could be doc (unless it's just that you were thinking it was 99% chance i'm mafia 1% chance i'm doc in which case I guess that makes sense). I also want to know why he was willing to accept my docclaim so quickly while being suspicious of UTO's.

I've explained this before. I didn't think that it was extremely likely you were doc, but I said I thought that if you ARE town you are also doc. Basically to put it as dumbed down as possible, I ranked your affiliation like this:
Mafia
Doc
Blue
I just was really confident you were mafia.

And I said why so many times. UTO claimed really scummily, and since I was docreading you anyway I would obviously believe you over UTO.

 

[acidphoenix]

Yes, but majority on 6 is 4.

 

[rssp1]

I've explained this before. I didn't think that it was extremely likely you were doc, but I said I thought that if you ARE town you are also doc. Basically to put it as dumbed down as possible, I ranked your affiliation like this:
Mafia
Doc
Blue
I just was really confident you were mafia.

And I said why so many times. UTO claimed really scummily, and since I was docreading you anyway I would obviously believe you over UTO.

Alright, that's fair. What exactly about my play, other than cautiousness, struck you as doc-like?

 

[Celever]

Alright, that's fair. What exactly about my play, other than cautiousness, struck you as doc-like?

Really it was mainly your cautiousness. I just got a doccy vibe, there was nothing in particular. When you tried to bait me into claiming doc it made me more sure though, like I said before.

 

[acidphoenix]

UTO, either Jumpluff is possible scum, or a town Celever KNOWS pokey is scum. IF Jumpluff is 100% town as you suggest then there is zero reason for Celever not to lynch Pokeguy except if we agree on a doc lynch.

Pokeguy, if Celever is confirmed scum to you, then why do you care if he's two short of lynch?

 

[Wayan Vistar]

Wow. Lolz at me for not realizing majority is 4 :P

Also acid i don't understand the question. To answer the question the way i perceived it... that was before i made the realization of him being confirmed to me. Now that i know i'll

Lynch Celever (again)

 

[jumpluff]

I'm in a position where I have least hard info of anyone. As such, I would rather lynch one of the doctor claimants, because the contender for their partner becomes much more obvious. I've had a really terrible, physically exhausting day and am going to sleep, but I think rssp and UTO talking about Celever could be informative. Also if Celever could articulate exactly what he disliked about the manner of UTO's claim, preferably also in contrast to rssp1's, I would appreciate it, because I'm not sure I see it as absolutely. I see elements of both.

Also one of my medication doses has been increased and the med makes me sleepy when I titrate the dose, so I might be around less. But I'm pretty sure of where I stand with the lynch now.

 

[jumpluff]

Well, excluding acid, I have as much info as acid does, just not as crystal clear. I think acid is ambivalent on the lynch as long as we hit Fire Mafia and sees people arguing with people who are almost certainly scum from their PoV as useless. Correct me if this interpretation is wrong. I don't see all these arguments as fruitless, as long as reasoning other than the obvious 'fmpov you're scum' is brought in. But I would like to see the lines of thought I suggested pursued further (as well as acid's suggestion our doc claimants discuss the other town claimants), and acid to weigh in further on what and who is an optimal lynch abstractly as well as in truth.

 

[jumpluff]

Essentially, you can't convince each other; it's more productive to convince others, like me, acid, and the potential third town member. Well, goodnight.

 

[rssp1]

Well, I mean, the arguments both of us have made aren't specifically directed at anyone (I would think, anyways), so I don't exactly see the need of rephrasing them, unless there's something specific any of you four would like either of us to elaborate on.

 

[acidphoenix]

Actually, you have more than me because you know your role. Barely more, but I fear scumpluff a lot rn.

Also, you are the ONLY person who has no loss of info by lynching villager claim over doc claim, so why do you prefer doc lynch?

 

[acidphoenix]

Although, yes, you are right exactly that I don't care who gets lynched so long as they're mafia. If mafia doesn't get lynched all scenarios are equal except scumpluff.

..why the hell am I not lynching doc?

Unvote pokeguynxb

Going to let everyone else weigh in on which doc to lynch before picking.

 

[rssp1]

Was your first post directed at jumpluff?
Also, if jumpluff is scum, we're all pretty screwed. It doesn't really make sense for pluff to be scum unless s/he's REALLY good at bussing, though.