1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

First try at Ubers

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Mylo Xyloto, Aug 25, 2012.

  1. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    804
  2. Furai

    Furai wellfare
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    2,844
    Hi Mylo Xyloto, nice rain team! Like I said in VM, I have a few suggestions.

    As you said, Ho-Oh can be pretty problematic for your team. It can come in on Kyogre or Terrakion that are locked into Ice Beam or Close Combat, respectively, set up a Substitute and hit extremely hard. Moreover, I don't see a reason to run two Choice Scarf users in Kyogre and Terrakion. Therefore, I suggest changing Kyogre's set to the Mono-Attacker:
    Kyogre (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Kyogre @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Roar
    - Scald


    Thanks to Rest and Sleep Talk, Kyogre can recover itself when it is in low health, allowing you to keep Ho-Oh and Excadrill in check. Life Orb Ho-Oh is capable of 2HKOing you with Brave Bird, but there's really nothing you can do about it; Ho-Oh will take too much recoil in the process. Scald is your STAB move and is quite great; 30% burn can really be helpful against Arceus, Rayquaza, and Groudon. Roar keeps setup boosters and Substitute users in check, and allows you to stack up entry hazards on the foe (which I will get to now).

    Latias is also problematic for your team, as you said. It can setup Calm Minds easily and there is literally nothing to stop it. Therefore I suggest replacing Rayquaza with Ferrothorn, who can still check weather abusers, such as Kingdra and Kabutops, while also being able to annoy Latias.
    Ferrothorn (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ferrothorn (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - Spikes
    - Leech Seed
    - Protect / Thunder Wave
    - Gyro Ball / Power Whip


    With Leech Seed and Gyro Ball, Latias is put in check due to being under high pressure. In rain, she cannot touch Ferrothorn even if she packs Hidden Power Fire. Protect provides additional recovery from Leech Seed, and Spikes can be very annoying for opposing teams as it rapidly weakens them. Thunder Wave and Power Whip can be used to hit Kingdra, Palkia, and Kyogre harder; its up to you, both are great options.

    Onto Giratina-O. I think this set is insufficient for your team as you have nothing to check Mewtwo, bar Terrakion. Therefore I think that Mixed Giratina-O would be the better option.
    Giratina-O (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Giratina-O @ Griseous Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 208 HP / 60 Atk / 188 Def / 52 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Tail
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Will-O-Wisp


    The set is pretty much straightforward; Shadow Sneak provides you priority and a way to check Mewtwo and Deoxys-A, Draco Meteor is a great move that can hit very hard thanks to Griseous Orb and STAB, and Dragon Tail is for shuffling, which can be very annoying with Spikes and Stealth Rock. Will-O-Wisp checks Extreme Killer Arceus, which makes it a lot easier to deal with. The EVs were made by trickroom, and here is the explanation;
    Now, you need something more reliable to beat Kyogre. The best Pokemon for this job is obviously Latias, thanks to BW2 giving her her beloved Soul Dew back. I'd use her over Deoxys-A, so you won't stack weakness to Ghost-, Dark-, and Bug-type moves.
    Latias (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 52 HP / 204 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Roost
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Thunder


    Latias is probably the best Kyogre counter out there with Soul Dew. It's pretty much like a Calm Mind boost as you switch in. The EVs allow Latias to outspeed everything she can, including Terrakion and Garchomp, and OHKO Palkia with Dragon Pulse without Stealth Rock. Roost provides reliable recovery, which is pretty much a must, and Dragon Pulse is an extremely solid STAB. Thunder hits Kyogre and Water Arceus harder than Dragon Pulse, and OHKOes Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, even when unboosted.

    You should use X-Scissor over EQ on Terrakion, as its Terrakion's strongest move against Mewtwo. Moreover, I'd use Rock Slide > Sleep Talk to secure the KO with less worrying about a miss. You can just let Kyogre take the sleep anyway.

    I also agree about changing Swords Dance to Rock Slide. This might turn Pokemon like Forretress to beat, but Excadrill appreciates the coverage, and it also grants you a way to hit Ho-Oh and Rayquaza.

    TL;DR (open)
    • Mono-Attacker Kyogre > Scarf Kyogre
    • Ferrothorn > Rayquaza
    • Mixed Giratina-O > SubCM Giratina-O
    • Latias > Deoxys-A
    • X-SCissor > EQ & Rock Slide > Sleep Talk on Terrakion
    • Rock Slide > Swords Dance on Excadrill


    That's it, Good Luck.
  3. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    804
    Thanks for the rate and I like the changes you suggested will test then later today.
  4. avalanche3387

    avalanche3387

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    104
    I like your team a lot most definitely. If you don't want to use Ferrothorn and can find another answer for Lati@s you can try my favorite Uber MixQuaza:

    Rayquaza @ Life Orb
    Hasty/Naive nature, Air Lock
    4 Att, 252 Sp Att, 252 Speed

    Draco Meteor
    Outrage
    Fire Blast
    Extreme Speed

    Provided you have Stealth Rock for Multiscale Lugia this will help against Lugia and Groudon that will give your team problems. Rayquaza is meant to be used early in the match and break holes in your opponent's team for something else to sweep. Ferrothorn may be better for your team though, it is up to you. Good luck!
  5. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    804
    Thanks for rating your help will be appriciated :)
  6. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2010
    Messages:
    2,841
    Choice Scarf Kyogre / Choice Scarf Terrakion / Swords Dance Rayquaza / Bulky Excadrill / LO Deoxys-A / SubCM Giratina-O

    This team is weak to, in order of importance -

    Kyogre - no proper check

    Arceus-Ghost - no proper check

    Latias - comes in on ogre and bulky exca is a shaky check at best, you still lose some of the time to sets with only dragon pulse, forget about surf sets.

    MixQuaza - something gonna die

    Dragons - if a dragon gets in on giratina-o something gonna die

    Ho-Oh - ouch

    Arceus Grass - CM versions are a pain but latias is way more threatening so i'd worry about that.

    Okay, I've said this before in other RMTs, but, the inflexibility of having two Choice Scarf users, especially without a defensive core, means you're probably going to lose at least one Pokemon every time you lock yourself into a move. Rayquaza can wreck on resisted Close Combat or Surfs, as can Lustrous Palkia if you're locked into Surf or Ice Beam. CM Ghost Arceus will destroy if you lock yourself into Close Combat.

    Also you should definitely be using an Arceus forme, as they are generally great checks to most Dragons and mixed sweepers.

    A great combined check to Kyogre and most Dragons (CM Latias is still a problem) is Grass Arceus. In the rain Fire Blasts do even less than their Dragon STAB so Palkia and Dialga aren't troublesome. V-Create Rayquaza still OHKOes Grass Arceus, but you outspeed and can OHKO with Ice Beam. The EVs let you outspeed Garchomp, OHKO Rayquaza without Stealth Rock, and bulk you up.

    Grass Arceus
    Show Hide

    move 1: Judgment
    move 2: Ice Beam
    move 3: Toxic
    move 4: Recover
    item: Meadow Plate
    ability: Multitype
    nature: Timid
    evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 140 SpD / 112 Spe


    Arceus Ghost is very difficult to stop; the best answers are Chansey or Blissey with Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Darkrai, or Dark Arceus. Choice Scarf Kyogre can still deal a good amount of damage to it with Water Spout even when it has boosted once, but that is hardly reliable. On Grass Arceus I have chosen to give you Toxic over Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave so Latias without Refresh and CM Ghost Arceus can be stopped reliably. Ho-Oh will also hate Toxic and it loves switching into Grass Arceus.

    I suggest Grass Arceus over Scarf Terrakion, since Choice Scarf Kyogre deals with Mewtwo, which your turn otherwise struggles with.

    Giratina-O's set doesn't really offer your team any synergy, and with Scarf Terrakion gone Giratina-O needs to use a physically defensive RestTalker to take on ExtremeKiller Arceus and Ho-Oh reliably. Giratina-A is also usable with an identical set, offering more bulk and Leftovers, at the cost of being vulnerable to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Earthquake. The choice is yours.

    Giratina-O/a
    Show Hide

    move 1: Roar
    move 2: Will-O-Wisp
    move 3: Sleep Talk
    move 4: Rest
    item: Griseous Orb
    ability: Levitate
    nature: Impish
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe


    Rayquaza with V-Create is deadly, and although I am not in favour of the SD set I won't deny it has the potential to screw some things up. However, its lack of Speed, and surprising lack of power behind ExtremeSpeed (STAB is a big deal) make it a suboptimal sweeper. If you want to try a set more geared at wallbreaking rather than sweeping then try out mixed Tailwind Rayquaza.

    Rayquaza
    Show Hide

    move 1: V-Create
    move 2: Outrage
    move 3: Draco Meteor
    move 4: Tailwind
    item: Life Orb
    ability: Air Lock
    nature: Mild
    evs: 120 Atk / 252 SpA / 136 Spe


    The EVs let you outspeed Choice Scarf Terrakion, maximum SpA investment all but guarantees the OHKO on Groudon with Draco Meteor and the rest is dumped into attack.

    With such a sturdy spinblocker it is a waste not to make use of more than Stealth Rock. In addition, you have no efficient lead against Dialga unless rain is up. An anti-lead Deoxys-A with Spikes provides a secondary hazard, that promotes all the switches that Rayquaza, Kyogre and Excadrill force. Giratina-O can also shuffles enemies.

    Show Hide

    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Psycho Boost
    move 3: Low Kick
    move 4: Shadow Ball
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Pressure
    nature: Naive
    evs: 76 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe


    The Speed EVs ensure you outspeed neutral natured Choice Scarf Kyogre and can slam it with Psycho Boost. Often time people will switch around with Giratina-O and Ferrothorn / Chansey on resisted / immune attacks, this lets you set up multiple layers of Spikes. Low Kick lets you 2HKO Dialga, making Deoxys-A an effective lead against it. Shadow Ball prevents Mewtwo from setting up against you, which is very troublesome unless Kyogre manages to get in at full HP and Mewtwo hasn't gotten more than one CM boost.

    Cool team, good luck.
  7. Mylo Xyloto

    Mylo Xyloto

    Joined:
    May 12, 2012
    Messages:
    804
    Thanks for the rate. I like the idea of spiking Deoxys. I'll also test out the other pokes you suggested.
  8. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderatoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    4,297
    Yeah, your team is lacking in Kyogre checks. I know you have your own Kyogre, but that doesn't usually cut it. I know teams don't always need dedicated Kyogre checks (I don't always carry them), but your team doesn't even have very loose checks to it. In addition to Poppy's comments, I'd also like to add weaknesses to:

    1) Kyurem-W - ScarfOgre is a pretty shaky check, while all of your other Pokemon will take a heap from Ice Beam. Scarf ones are particularly bad since the only Pokemon that can pretty much take it out is Scarf Terrakion, which is setup fodder for a lot of things.
    2) Dialga - Again, Terrakion is your only real answer to Dialga. Fast Dialga outspeeds everything on your team of significance and Draco Meteors everything in site, while bulky ones would generally speed creep a decent amount, and since your Excadrill is only fast enough to outspeed minimum speed variants, that isn't helping. There is nothing on your team that can actually KO Dialga without getting killed in return, and this is very worrying.

    I'd just go with Poppy's suggestions, as they seem to do pretty well against most things. Decent team though, good luck with it.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)