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BW OU Friend's Prophecy

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Reymedy, Apr 29, 2013.

  1. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
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    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,450
    Friend's Prophecy.



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Hello.


    So, I'm here to present my third RMT. This is a pure ladder team, a somewhat brainless & weatherless HO. A bit of history, I started playing this team during the Deoxys-D suspect. And guess what, I peaked #1 quite fast (and then I played random stuff for fun because I could lose as much as I want, suspect voters know what I'm talking about). Oh, I also hit #1 on the classic PS! ladder after the suspect, undefeated.
    So, the version of that team that I post here is the old one that I used for both peak, I'm now using some kind of rework of this team. So go ahead, play it, steal it or post a RMT with two slight changes and get my luvdiscs x 4. I won't even get mad.
    I already published this team some time ago on the french forum, so you can check it out if you understand our sweet language.


    Team Building

    Time for some mind-blowing explanations.
    Basically I started with Keldeo, and I took Landorus aswell, because I like to take risks.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    And then Weavile, because I'm too hipster and I like to trap stuff that doesn't care about Landorus. But overall, it's because I'm too hipster.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    And then, Breloom for the bulky waters, for the Spore, for the StoneQuake resistance (and because Breloom+Pursuiter is too hipster).
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I need a steel, I need Scizor, nuff said.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    I needed SR, and I wanted a powerful dragon. Druddigon was very hipster, but I chose Garchomp because I'm not that hipster too.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    Say that it's classic, alright, but if you go back to the Deoxys-D suspect, and if you look closer at my builds, you'll realise that while I'm using classic pokemons, there is some magic in every single set. Oh, but you can't look closer yet, so here we go.



    The Team


    Father Nitani

    [​IMG]

    "He told me to look for a priest from Japan with tattoos... He told me his face would be scary, but he'd be a good person"

    [​IMG]

    Item : Focus Sash

    Jolly / 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Nothing fancy here.

    Moves :

    Stealth Rock
    Sword Dance
    Earthquake
    Outrage

    Yes, you can play Fire Blast over Sword Dance. No, you don't need to post a rate to point out that change.
    So Garchomp lead is something really useful, you get SR up no matter what and usually you can punch a hole in the enemy's team. Depending on the team you're facing, you'll need sometimes to save this guy ! For instance against a Volcarona, you better have a healthy Garchomp ready.
    Basically, there will be good players able to know when to start with him and when to not, and there will be less good players starting with him all day. The first pokemon you send, and the "lead" match-up is REALLY important for a HO team. You need to outplay your opponent, one thing I wanted to do, is make the lead Garchomp obvious (no other SR setter here), so I could easily play around what could be sent by my opponent.
    Yes, you can play Terrakion here, but you'll need to change one or two other things.



    Otcho

    [​IMG]

    "Nobody knows his name or his nationality or anything... but all the people around here call him by the name of Shogun !"

    [​IMG]

    Item : Life Orb

    Naive / 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Nothing fancy here too.


    Moves :

    U-Turn
    Focus Blast
    Earthpower
    Hidden Power [Ice]

    "Oh my god, he plays U-Turn Landorus, no one falls for it".
    MAYBE, but when I was playing it, it was fairly uncommon, I was still a hipster.
    All those Landorus discussions made this set pretty known, and thus, not so original and surprising anymore. Landorus works wonders with Keldeo (no fuck really ?) and along with Weavile, there are only few things able to stand in Keldeo's way.
    What I love about the U-Turn version, is that if you're able to predict decently your opponent, you'll be rewarded. In a HO, it's a risky game, and many people will prefer the RP version to build a "chain of sweepers" team. That's not my plan. I wanted my team to be dynamic, Landorus fuels my team with energy thanks to his pivoting. You'll also notice that each of my pokemons has a "defensive task" and shares a particular synergy with the rest of the team. This is what, in my opinion, makes a HO interesting and versatile (and not just a fucking chain of sweepers).



    Masao

    [​IMG]

    "Don't worry ma'am, it'll be all ok. You won't have to suffer anymore, a new world is about to begin"​


    [​IMG]

    Item : Life Orb

    Jolly / 32 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD / 216 Spe

    The Weavile's spread, no need 232 anymore since Tornadus-T is gone for a better world.

    Moves :

    Ice Shard
    Pursuit
    Low Kick
    Night Slash

    In theory, Landorus U-Turn + Weavile = Keldeo Sweep.
    This pokemon is my favorite, but I'm really not trying to put him in every single team ! I used Tyranitar in here for a fairly long time too (no need to post a rate about it, thank you).
    Funny to see that when I posted a team with Weavile some time ago, every single rater tried to make me change this pokemon. While when Weavile is used in other people's team, they are like "oh my god, so creative, so original, I never thought of Weavile, this is crazy" blablabla.
    Ice Shard is also what makes Weavile unic. No Landorus's (or Thundrus-T) sweep... but also, no Starmie, no Alakazam, no Lati@s etc. Weavile is cool, he's a Dark typed pokemon, he fills my opponent's brain with fear because he knows that if he switch in his Psychic Pokemon, this will be his last time.


    Konchi

    [​IMG]

    "Don't betray your old friend from our secret base buildin' days this is... This is Konchi !"

    [​IMG]

    Item : Fighting Gem

    Adamant / 112 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 140 Spe

    This spread is "the spread". You live ANY of Scarf Keldeo's attack after SR.
    252 SpA Keldeo Hidden Power Ice vs. 112 HP / 4 SpD Breloom: 228-270 (78.89 - 93.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.
    You outspeed defensive Rotom-W, Cresselia with HP Fire...
    Yes, I'm so proud of it.

    Moves :

    Spore
    Bullet Seed
    Mach Punch
    Focus Punch


    What a noob, Focus Punch Breloom !
    I've been terrifying the ladder with that Breloom. I don't know how many people switched in their Jirachi thinking "this fool gonna Bullet Seed" and then left after the OHKO.
    This set was so "gimmick" when I started playing it, but it wall breaks SO HARD to be honest. Skarmory gets killed with that, SpD Celebi too. There is no other wall breaker for my team than this guy. He does his job so well. I don't know what to say, Breloom is a crucial part of the puzzle and I love using this set as a cheap wall breaker.



    Kenji

    [​IMG]

    "Even if the Rain falls, even if a storm comes, even if it's raining spears. Everybody go back to your homes. Don't make me force you. No one has the right to stand in my way."​


    [​IMG]

    Item : Iron Plate

    Adamant / 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe

    Spread to outspeed Ttar and Jellicent, rest in bulk, classic.

    Moves :

    Bullet Punch
    U-Turn
    Sword Dance
    Roost

    The fakeZor, it gives so much substance to my team, so much defensive presence, without giving up the offensive momemtum. Who else could do that while tanking Dragons ?
    Occasionally, he sweeps. Especially when the guy against you is like "I'm sure he's choiced, I'll just let my Ferrothorn in and put some hazards" while you SD. And when he tries to worn you down with Leech Seed/Gyro Ball as you Roost Stall him before your +6Atk sweep... So good. He plays different roles, depending on the match-up, on the plays etc. He's versatile, he provides me with bulk, a win condition, and momemtum... Don't touch my Scizor.



    Kanna​


    [​IMG]

    "I'll be a hero... I promise Donkey"

    [​IMG]

    Item : Choice Scarf

    Timid / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

    Yes I know, amazing spread.

    Moves :

    HydroPump
    Surf
    Hidden Power [Ice]
    Secret Sword

    Okay, so this team is supposed to be built around a Keldeo's sweep. In theory, nothing can wall this pokemon in the late game given the other sweepers assisting the pony.
    I don't have much to say here, this guy works really well against the most classic weather teams archetype, Rain and Sand offense. The few pokemons able to outspeed this guys should be checked by the rest of my team. His typing is ideal, I need a water pokemon, and the Fighting type helps against Scizor aswell.
    Oh well, screw it, I have nothing to add to this description.



    Conclusion

    So, this is a team made for the ladder, but I'm also proud of the overall balance of this team. As you can see, this team looks like my last RMT in the way it has been built, and considering the pokemons that I use. I made a "fast" threat list etc. because I'm too lazy, and because I've already done it in french so I guess I don't need to redo all the work, I can rather just jump to the conclusions I've made when I built the original threat list.
    This team looks braindead, it looks like a "send your sweeper and attack" team, but don't get fooled or you'll never be able to adapt to every situation and make the team work. Every single pokemon has a specific role defensively and offensively speaking, if you disregard that, you'll end up losing many easy games, like "Oh fuck, I shouldn't have let my Garchomp die, this Infernape is raping me :pirate:"... this kind of stuff.


    Raters

    Don't rate, unless you have something really good and original to propose. I got Gyarados and Volcarona as threats, don't even try to post your "change Scizor for Heatran" or "change Keldeo for Rotom-W" rates, or I will probably ignore your rate. I'm not really looking for changes, but if you have some nice
    custom spread or set, or a creative improvement... well go ahead, and I'll try this out.
    However, if you want to play the team and give me your honest opinion, this is what I'm looking for !



    Threat List :



    Will be quick.

    Match-up :

    Show Hide
    DragnMag

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Keldeo and Weavile, here we go.

    Weatherless Offense

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Too hard to prepare yourself for that, but my team has a high average speed.

    Weatherless Stall

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Breloom and Landorus will do some work, I need to trap stuff and wall break stuff.

    Sun Offense

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Keep Chomp healthy if you see Volcarona, but you also need to get SR up. Kill Venusaur with priorities. Hard match-up, as always with a weatherless.

    Sun Stall

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Awful match-up given Cresselia, U-Turn trap/Spore this shit, but you'll need to worn it down before.

    Rain Offense

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Easy.

    Rain Stall

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Should be like Weatherless Stall, Politoed is a bitch though, Breloom will be your life savior.

    Sand Offense

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Easy (in theory).

    Sand Stall

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Pressure them hard, unleash Keldeo after breaking through Celebi/Jellicent with Landorus/Weavile/FPLoom.

    Hail

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    No one plays that.





    Threats :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG] Abomasnow:
    • Mixed Attacker -
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Alakazam:
    • Focus Sash -
    • Offensive Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Azelf:
    • Lead -
      [*]Dual Screens -
    • Nasty Plot -
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Azumarill:
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Breloom:
    • Physical Attacker -
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf -
    • Bulk Up -
    • Sub Punch -
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Tinkerbell -
    • Nasty Plot Sweeper -
    • Choice Specs / Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Shell Smash -
    [​IMG] Conkeldurr:
    • Bulk Up -
    • Flame Orb + 3 Attacks -
    [​IMG] Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf / Band -
    • Life Orb -
    [​IMG] Deoxys-D:
    • Fast Spiker -
    [​IMG] Dragonite:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Choice Band -
    • Mixed -
    • Parashuffler -
    • Rain Abuse -
    [​IMG] Dugtrio:
    • Focus Sash -
    • Choice Band -
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Agility -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Baton Pass -
    • Dual Screens -
    [​IMG] Garchomp:
    • Swords Dance -
    • Choice Band -
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Genesect:
    • Choice Scarf / Band -
    • Rock Polish -
    • Expert Belt -
    [​IMG] Gengar:
    • Substitute + Disable / Pain Split -
    [​IMG] Gorebyss:
    • SmashPass -
    • Shell Smash Sweeper -
    [​IMG] Gothitelle:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Offensive / Bulky Dragon Dance -
    • Choice Band -
      [*]Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Haxorus:
    • Choice Scarf / Choice Band -
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Swords Dance -
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    • Air Balloon -
    [​IMG] Hydreigon:
    • Mixed Attacker -
    • Choice Specs / Scarf -
    • Substitute -
    • Expert Belt -
    [​IMG] Infernape:
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf -
    • Mixed Attacker -
    • Nasty Plot / Swords Dance booster -
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind / Substitute + 3 Attacks -
    • Wish + Calm Mind -
    • Expert Belt -
    • Choice Scarf -
    • HaxAchi Wish Défensif Body Slam BS -
    [​IMG] Keldeo:
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Kingdra:
    • Choice Specs -
    • Rain Dance -
    • Dragon Dance -
    [​IMG] Kyurem:
    • Choice -
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks -
    • Substitute + Roost -
    [​IMG] Kyurem-B:
    • Substitute
    • Substitute + Dragon Tail
    • Choice Band
    • Mixed
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Landorus:
    • Rock Polish / Swords Dance -
    • Special Attacker-
    • Choice Scarf -
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks - Powa
    [​IMG] Landorus-T:
    • Stealth Rock -
    • Swords Dance / Rock Polish -
    • Substitute + 3 Attacks
    • Gravity -
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Life Orb -
    • Choice Specs -
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Latios:
    • Life Orb / Expert Belt -
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Lucario:
    • Swords Dance -
    [​IMG] Magnezone:
    • Substitute -
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    [​IMG] Mamoswine:
    • Physical Attacker -
    • Focus Sash + Endeavor -
    [​IMG] Meloetta:
    • Relic Song Mixed Attacker -
    • Calm Mind + 3 Attacks / Substitute -
    [​IMG] Metagross:
    • Stealth Rock -
    • Choice Scarf / Band -
    • Agility -
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stealth Rock
    • Baton Pass
    • Nasty Plot
    [​IMG] Mienshao:
    • All-Out Attacker -
    • Choice Scarf / Band -
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Special Attacker -
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Choice Specs / Scarf -
    • 3 Attacks -
    [​IMG] Reuniclus:
    • Offensive Trick Room-
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Rotom-C:
    • Support -
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Support -
    • Choice Scarf / Specs -
    [​IMG] Salamence:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Mixed -
    • Choice Scarf / Band -
    [​IMG] Scizor:
    • Choice Band -
    • Swords Dance -
    • Bulky Swords Dance -
    [​IMG] Scrafty:
    • Dragon Dance -
    • Bulk Up -
    [​IMG] Sharpedo:
    • Speed Boost -
    [​IMG] Smeargle:
    • Hazard Lead -
    • Baton Pass -
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Life Orb -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Stoutland:
    • Choice Band -
    • Non Choice -
    [​IMG] Terrakion:
    • Substitute + Swords Dance / Salac Berry -
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf-
    • Double Dance -
    [​IMG] Thundurus-T:
    • Nasty Plot -
    • Agility -
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Tornadus:
    • Tailwind
    [​IMG] Tornadus-T:
    • Standard -
    • Choice Specs -
    [​IMG] Toxicroak:
    • Swords Dance -
    • Bulk Up -
    • SubPunch -
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Choice Band -
    • Choice Scarf -
    • MixTar -
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • Growth -
    [​IMG] Victini:
    • Choice Band / Scarf -
    • Special Attacker -
    [​IMG] Virizion:
    • Calm Mind -
    • Swords Dance -
    [​IMG] Volcarona:
    • Offensive Quiver Dance -
    • Bulky Quiver Dance / Roost -
    • Chesto Rest -
    • Substitute -


    Standard OU Defensive Threats


    [​IMG] Amoonguss:
    • Standard -
    [​IMG] Blissey:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Bronzong:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Celebi:
    • Physically Defensive -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Chansey:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Cloyster:
    • Utility -
    [​IMG] Cresselia:
    • Support - Sous Sun.
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Espeon:
    • Calm Mind -
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn:
    • Standard -
    [​IMG] Forretress:
    • Physically Defensive -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Gastrodon:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Gliscor:
    • Substitute + Protect -
    • Britscor Stallbreaker -
    • Swords Dance
    [​IMG] Gyarados:
    • Bulky Support -
    • Resttalk -
    Same shit.
    [​IMG] Heatran:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Hippowdon:
    • Physical Tank -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Jellicent:
    • Utility Counter -
    [​IMG] Jirachi:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Latias:
    • Support -
    • Reflect / Refresh + Calm Mind
    [​IMG] Mew:
    • Stallbreaker -
    [​IMG] Ninetales:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Politoed:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Porygon2:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Quagsire:
    • Physically Defensive -
    [​IMG]-Rotom-H:
    • Support -
    • Choice Scarf -
    [​IMG] Rotom-W:
    • Support -
    [​IMG] Sableye:
    • Prankster -
    [​IMG] Skarmory:
    • Physically Defensive -
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Slowbro:
    • Tank -
    [​IMG] Starmie:
    • Rapid Spin -
    [​IMG] Tangrowth:
    • Defensive -
    [​IMG] Tentacruel:
    • Substitute + Toxic -
    • Protect -
    [​IMG] Tyranitar:
    • Specially Defensive -
    [​IMG] Vaporeon:
    • Rest Hydration -
    • Wish Support -
    [​IMG] Venusaur:
    • SubSeed -
    [​IMG] Wobbuffet:
    • Max Speed -
    • Bulky -
    [​IMG] Xatu:
    • Standard -

    So, basically, Gyarados (with Intimidate, the Moxie version is "ok"), Volcarona (if Sun is up), Cresselia (if Sun is up), Defensive Jirachi (if Rain isn't up). SD Scizor is annoying, Keldeo Scarf too, some version of Amonguss etc..
    Having SR up solves most of these issues, careful plays solve the remaining issues.




    Importable :

    Show Hide
    Kanna (Keldeo) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Surf

    Otcho (Landorus) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Sheer Force
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Focus Blast
    - U-turn

    Masao (Weavile) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SDef / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Low Kick
    - Night Slash
    - Pursuit

    Konji (Breloom) @ Fighting Gem
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 112 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 140 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Seed
    - Focus Punch
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch

    Father Nitani (Garchomp) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Swords Dance
    - Stealth Rock

    Kenji (Scizor) @ Iron Plate
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost

    Keep the nicks, don't be a bitch !
  2. blazeit420

    blazeit420

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Messages:
    5
    i know you want to keep weavile, but if you already have keldeo+landorus you might aswell go all the way and add tyranitar so you can cancel out other weather

    miss the ice shard? replace garchomp with focus sash mamoswine
  3. Tizio

    Tizio

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2012
    Messages:
    25
    Hello man, your team is interesting but it have 2 main problems;
    Hurricane spam
    Sunny
    If you need a pursuiter you can use tar>weavile and with that fix you resolve the problems, imho the best set of ttar in this team is the chople or the band/scarf
  4. Masterclass

    Masterclass

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    562
    This team is a bitch, so i had to comment. I played CriCri95 in smogon tour semi final. But this was like week #3 so u-turn lando wasn't as popular and expected.

    Edit: If i was vague, i meant that this is a good offensive team and i liked it.
  5. D i a b l o

    D i a b l o Guest

    Hello dude,
    you have a great team, really.
    The rate in this case is useless but the only thing that I have to advise you are a bit 'hearty (but optional because the team is still good even without these tips);
    Anyway, first of all Keldeo, in my opinion, if it is with Weavile, must be SubCM because it invites Latios, Latias, Starmie to psychic-move and hence is easily intrappolabile with Weavile.
    Now, however, you lose the fundamental Choice Scarf which is an important element in today's metagame so the last change that I would advise you (although I know that maybe you do not accept it, reading its description) is ScarfJirachi on Scizor, with this you have a good revengekiller and also a good "switch-in" on dragons.

    Hope that I help you, gl with the team and I repeat, the team is very nice also without edit.
  6. Dice

    Dice what's a god to a nonbeliever
    is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    1,964
    This team was interesting enough for me to start rating again. Anyways, A lot of your team's problems stem from the fact that your team only has one Fighting-resistance in Landorus. I'm sure you've noticed how well played Keldeos, Conkeldurrs, Terrakions, etc. can really cause you trouble, especially if they have more than one of the aforementioned threats. Keldeo is just a bitch because it gets a free switch-in to revenge kill Landorus, Weavile, Garchomp after Sash, and Scizor. The worst part about Keldeo, however, is if it is in Rain. Rain Keldeo allows it to OHKO Scizor with Hydro Pump, so you can't go for a +2 U-turn on it like you would be able to versus sand varients. Opposing Scizor kind of look troublesome as well, if the faster versions, since they can push past Keldeo with Life Orb + Hazards and Breloom doesn't outspeed. You would need Rain or Hidden Power Fire Keldeo to deal with Scizor with your current set, and you can't fit the former while the latter isn't ideal on this team. Lastly, Stall as a playstyle seems very threatening. Focus Punch Breloom can't push pass Celebi with some defensive investment, and Scizor's set makes it weak to practically any stall-mon. In theory, Landorus can beat most stall teams, but if they scout for the U-turn or have a sturdy revenge killer, you won't be having a fun matchup. With these threats in mind I recommend a Latios instead of Garchomp. Garchomp is a cool Stealth Rock setter; however, Latios gives you a few important things you lack. Namely, you gain a solid Keldeo check, a great stallbreaker, and a Pokemon that acts as a breaker to lure in walls that defeat Keldeo and weaken them much like Landorus. An example of this is Amoonguss which Landorus cannot break. I would try a set of Draco Meteor / Psyshock / Surf or Hidden Power Fire / Trick @ Choice Specs with max/max and a Timid nature. With this change, you lose a Stealth Rocker. Obviously this isn't good, so try out Stealth Rock instead of Focus Blast on Landorus. It may seem weird to not run Focus Blast, but you can U-turn out Rotom-W and Bronzong and switch to an effective check. I've been running this set for a while, and it's good since it's a reliable Stealth Rock setter with all the switches it forces while also being able to lure in Celebi and OHKO it. You could replace U-turn with it, but I find U-turn having more utility in the game than Focus Miss. Lastly, I recommend you try out my Breloom spread in 68 HP / 224 Atk / 216 Spe. You outspeed annoying max speed Adamant Scizors now, which caused you problems before, while still being able to live a non-boosted Terrakion Close Combat and Expert Belt Keldeo Icy Wind. Anyways, I hope you find these changes effective if you try them out. Good luck man.
  7. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    Oh yes, I remember this game, altought Cricri isn't a very experienced BW2 player (not at all :D), he made it pretty far into this ST so I was very happy. His game against you started really well and we were like (Cricri included) "he can't lose now"... Buuut with experience and patience, you turned it around and finally beat him.
    I think he threw away some crucial sweepers that he needed to break through your team later (as I mention in my RMT), it was an interesting and entertaining game though.
    Thank you for your comment, I appreciate it ;)

    Your comment ain't so "useless", guess what the version of the team that I play got a Jirachi Scarf, though it isn't for the reasons you mentionned. One thing I want to point out however, is that Breloom isn't only here for Keldeo. Indeed, he opens many holes for Breloom and Landorus. Your idea with Sub/CM can work for sure, I got no doubt about it, I'll try this out.
    Thanks.

    Glad you casted a glance at my "weird offense" ;)
    You're probably one of the few raters whose rates are really relevant and substantial in my opinion. So onto the rate, you're pretty right about Keldeo and Conkeldurr (as I mentionned in my undeveloped TL). I'm not so worried about Terrakion because most of my pokemons outspeed/hit him with a priority. But yes, the point is that I got an unic fighting resistance, so usually, pokemons bulky enough to take a hit and retaliate with a powerful fighting move are threatening. Keldeo pressures me heavily, I need to fully rely on my own Keldeo and on Breloom for that, and it can be tricky if they are already pressured (by let's say, a Scizor... so yes your rate is really spot-on). If rain is up, it helps me a lot here to kill Scizor with my own Keldeo though.

    Onto the changes, they seem cool and pertinent, I always found that I was maybe lacking another SpA hardhitter, I guess Latios could fix this perfectly. The idea to put SR on Landorus is nice, and I tried it already with a bulkier version (inspired by your own RMT iirc) but I was too lazy to build a spread x)
    I guess I'll try it with the same spread, it could work. I'll try the Breloom spread, it's true that sometimes, I miss the speed for this particular case of a speedy Scizor, so why not.

    Thank you very much, I could not wish for a better rate and I'm happy that the team seemed interesting to you.


    EDIT : For the two first comments, I won't get trolled so easily, but nice try :nerd:
  8. Jimbon

    Jimbon fools and worthless liars
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Hi there,

    This is a really cool team, I've used the Fighting Gem Focus Punch set before and I can agree with its effectiveness. Anyway, the few weaknesses this team has [Gyarados, Volcarona] look like they can cause some trouble if they get in for free, which doesn't seem unlikely given the reliance on Keldeo to switch into something and revenge, only to be turned into setup fodder on the following turn. There are a couple ways to go about this, my first suggestion would be to agree with the suggestion of Latios over Garchomp, however I'd consider an Expert Belt set which is one of the best and easiest bluffs to pull off, and is very effective on Hyper Offense. It gives you a small extra buffer for Rain, which might be all you need against opposing Rain Offense, while the Fighting resistance like Bri mentioned is nice too.

    If you choose not to go with this change, then my other suggestion would be to try Scarf Latios over Garchomp and make Keldeo Expert Belt, which eases your Sun weakness, retains your Choice Scarf user + Dragon revenge killer and means your opponent has even fewer setup opportunities, as Volcarona / Gyarados aren't coming in on Keldeo locked into Hidden Power [Ice] / Secret Sword anymore, just something to consider though. If you do go with either of these changes though, you'll definitely want to run Stealth Rock on Landorus to compensate for losing your Stealth Rock user in Garchomp -- I'd advise running some bulk on Landorus too to help you get Stealth Rock up easier against defensive threats, as well as allowing you to take on Jirachi just a little better, who might become more of a problem with Garchomp gone. You can afford to run some bulk given that most Landorus are running the Rock Polish set, most of which aren't using a +Speed Nature or full Speed investment.

    Also just a small nitpick, I'd probably just go with 252 Atk / 252 Spe for Weavile -- I'm not too sure there's anything that extra investment in HP and Special Defense helps you survive, but given Weavile's frailty I highly doubt it. The standard Weavile set doesn't run max speed, but if you choose to run Max Speed you get the jump on other Weaviles, which I'd argue is going to be more relevant than otherwise useless extra bulk.

    Luvdisc'd. Good luck!
  9. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

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    Alright, I tested the team a bit on the ladder (and got blamed for doing so, but w/e), and while it's generally good (alghough I dislike the playstyle, but that's not an issue of the team...), I found sun teams giving me a headache more often than not. Weavile's coverage is usually ineffective against them, and Keldeo is close to useless in sun; everything else is outsped by a random fire pokemon and killed by a STAB move (ok, Garchomp helps, but if it dies somewhat you're basically screwed). I'd say I support the Latios suggestion by Jimbon / Bri, especially if you opt for a Specs / Scarf version. Why? Because doing so would help you to cripple (Trick) another pokemon I found myself to be almost helpless against: SpD Zapdos. Your only way to take it down reliably is using Garchomp, since Keldeo needs to use Hydro Pump to 2HKO after SR (not to even mention if said Zapdos is in sun...), Weavile is LO stalled since Ice Shard deals max 57% or something like that, Lando can't do anything, Breloom and Scizor are helpless. Zapdos can also hit everything on your team for SE damage (Thunderbolt, HP Ice, Heat Wave), so it even applies a sizable offensive pressure on you which, for example, renders pretty pointless trying to set up something against it. Besides the Jimbon changes, you could also try to use Ice Punch instead of Night Slash; while it's situationally useful, you will often use Pursuit anyway, and Ice Punch OHKOs Zapdos without SR on the field most of the times, ensuring you have something to take the annoying bird down.

    Great team, good luck with it. Hope my rate is useful somewhat.
  10. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    Okay so I'm gonna do a single answer for both comments.
    First thank you both for your rate and for the testing.

    - Latios, as I said, I'll give it a shot. I tried several sets, and I found that the LO version was the most effective. Specs was really cool, but I found more than often that the team lacked the skeleton to back-up what could come/set-up on a -2/locked Latios. I tried TWave over Trick (since I was using LO) and it was damn cool to use to be honest, I could really catch a lot of my threats of guard since they would try to set-up here (Gyara, Volcarona...), and it could give me the momentum in the future quite effectively.
    However, during my tests, I realised that I was using Latios a ton, and he overshadowed some other members (which is both cool and annoying in a sense). So I think I'll do one or two changes along with Latios to build another version of the team. The Ebelt version lacked some firepower (I needed Latios to hit hard, even on resisted/nonSE attacks.

    - Weavile's spread, the extra bulk makes sure that you never get OHKO'd by LO Starmie's HPump, and increase your chances to not be OHKO'd by a DM from Latios Scarf greatly (the only version outspeeding you anyway). So, since those are one of the main targets of Weavile, I find the investment meaningful enough to give up Weavile's speed tie.
    For IcePunch>Night Slash, it's really up to you. I think that Night Slash is more useful overall, but that's a matter of personal opinion I guess.

    - And yes, Sun are annoying if they are using a lot of sweepers since it's hard to compete with the instant speed boost. I hope Latios can help here, or as I mention in the RMT, a Ttar over Weavile can fix this issue pretty well.

    So as I said, I'll definitely try to fit Latios somewhere considering how every rater rooted for this change, and I'll adapt the team accordingly probably.
    Thanks everyone for the input, I appreciate.
  11. bigbear

    bigbear

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    I really like this team. I would like to say a couple of things though. Status pokemon rip this team apart. A CentThorn core could potentially give problems. Scald is terrifying as burn rips apart 4 pokemon and landorus is weak to scald. That means that relying on keldeo to kill jellicent is not the greatest idea. Though weavile takes down jellicent nicely, a well played prediction can potentially fall your weaville. My solution to this problem is that you use a flame orb latias with trick. This over Garchomp/Latios would allow you to hit hard while still being a status absorber. Latias also gives you checks to Modest Latios, Garchomp and Gyrados. Roost also allows you heal off HP. Trick is to stop physical attackers. Flame Orb does not effect SpA so your good there. Thunderbolt hits Jellicent and Gyrados with SE damage and counters all jellicent lacking ice beam or shadow ball, while checking ones that do.

    Latias (F) @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Roost
    - Trick
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunderbolt
  12. ssbbm

    ssbbm

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    more like u dont need to be so overly pretentious

    nown this is a really small nitpick but i'd recommend changing the set of keldeo to something like (hydro pump / surf) / icy wind / secret sword / hidden power electric. now, this may at first seem to be a weird set, but i dont' really think you have that many dragon problems with weavile, while you do have problems with both opposing keldeo and gyarados.

    obviously, this isn't a perfect fix as they both still wreck your team (especially ebelt keldeo), but you should be able to provide enough offensive pressure to deal with it anyway. if you really want to beat keldeo, you could try an acrobatics + flight gem set on scizor, which also helps against jellicent, gyarados, and volcarona.

    possible changes:
    flight gem scizor over sd u-turn scizor
    hidden power electric + icy wind over surf + hidden power ice on keldeo
  13. Gimmick

    Gimmick Electric potential

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    Hey Remedy!

    Great team--it really covers a ton of the threats in today's metagame (creatively at that). However, as others have stated, fighting types really seem to trouble you and put a ton of pressure on Landorus. SD Breloom in combination with Keldeo seems really difficult to get by (even moreso in Rain) since Keldeo can easily switch in on Weavile's Ice Shards aimed at Breloom and dish out another powerful fighting attack on the switch (and Landorus isn't the most ideal thing to bring in on Keldeo). I realize that includes 2 specific Pokemon, but as Bri has said already, there are several combinations that seem to trouble you. His suggestion of Latios is absolutely brilliant. The fact that it "overshadows" the rest of your team is probably a good thing since it seems to fit in perfectly. If you want to hit hard and retain reliability, I'd recommend a set like this:
    Latios (open)
    [​IMG] (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Recover
    - Draco Meteor
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock

    That Thunder Wave idea seemed pretty cool, but the only time you'd actually use that is specifically against threatening set-up sweepers (mainly Gyarados since Keldeo can do a nice job against Volcaronas not carrying Giga Drain. Hurricane variants are always seen in rain and Keldeo OHKOs +1 SDef Volcarona with Hydro Pump in said weather) after a Draco Meteor, which seems a bit too situational to merit a moveslot. Recover has much more utility because you can repeatedly switch in and out of Keldeo if need be. HP Fire is there to make sure you don't get Pursuit trapped by Scizor (or lose momentum after switching and getting U-turned) and hits Bronzong for some decent damage so Landorus can eventually take it out. The rest is self explanatory.

    I wanted to mention another thing as well. Weavile definitely wants 228 Spe (28 SDef / 252 Atk) with a Jolly nature to outspeed Scarf Gothitelle. Nothing's worse than trying to Pursuit trap a Gothitelle only to get outsped and killed (assuming it's taken prior damage) by the HP Fire aimed at Scizor.

    "the extra bulk makes sure that you never get OHKO'd by LO Starmie's HPump"

    With the new spread, it looks like this: 252 SpAtk Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs 0 HP/28 SpDef Weavile: 84.34% - 98.58% (2 hits to KO) Besides, the only time Weavile would take a LO Hydro Pump from Starmie is if it switches into it, which I doubt would happen unless you were trying to dodge a Psyshock aimed at Breloom or Keldeo. Next, the Latios comparison:
    252 SpAtk Latios Draco Meteor vs 32 HP/8 SpDef Weavile: 89.62% - 105.88% (37.5% chance to OHKO)
    252 SpAtk Latios Draco Meteor vs 0 HP/28 SpDef Weavile: 90.75% - 106.76% (43.75% chance to OHKO)

    Outspeeding Gothitelle is definitely worth a 6% lower chance of surviving a Latios' Draco Meteor.

    And that's all I got! Like I said, this is a fantastic team. Thanks for sharing~
  14. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
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    Okay, I'm really pleased to see that there are other rates, and well, I like to answer to everyone so here we go :

    Hello.

    I must admit that I disagree with the first part of your rate (thus with the conclusions you drew). I don't feel like I'm weak at all to "CentJelli". I got Breloom, and he kills both or spread Spore fairly easily. On top of that, every single member of my team is able to beat Ferrothorn, and I can really hurt Jelli with Breloom/Chomp or trap it with Weavile. I mean, that's the point of having Weavile, I don't feel like I need to have an extra insurance.
    For your change, I wonder if Reflect isn't just totally outclassing the Trick+FlameOrb set on Latias (don't get burned, you still have an item and a more flexible move).
    Thanks anyway for your opinion on my team.

    Hi.
    Seems like interesting changes, that I havent tried yet (especially playing with Keldeo's HP, this could be really useful in fact to cover extra threats, and having HP Elec for Gyara seems hella interesting, I feel dumb since I never thought of that here). I never tried FlyingGem Scizor and well, why not, I'm really interested.
    Thanks for the rate, it looks skinny, but it sure packs some new and interesting leads for my team.

    Hi Gimmick.

    So yes Latios once again, I guess you talked about because you were doubtful about Twave. You said using it after DMeteor is "situationnal" and I think that it's true, but doesn't mean that the move is bad. First, sometimes you need moves for specific situations. So yes, they are situationnals, but important.
    I think that stopping a sweep (and you don't talk about the "surprise" value) is really valuable in an offense. After a DMeteor, I need to switch most of the time, and sometimes I don't want to, or I can't afford it (because too risky for my other sweepers). Twaves solves the issue. I'm not saying that it's 100% better, or that it's "needed". But I don't feel like you can say "it's situationnal" and sweep it to put the classic on-site build instead. On top if that, Recover in an offense isn't that good because you really don't Recover often (like never) because you rather hit or get the momentum from a switch. I don't think I "need" to switch repeatitively into Keldeo (note that only the Scarf is really an issue, the other versions are killed by my own Keldeo, and the Scarf doesn't come all day because of its choiced nature which helps my frail pokemons to come on a resisted hit).
    So yea, I see your point, I understand it, but I think that it depends highly on the way you play and on the nature of the team. You can also guess that I tried the classic set before making my own personnaly changes (not like I'll put TWave on every Latios).
    I hope you understand that I'm not saying that your idea is "less good", but I don't want you to say that mine is just because of its weird-looking !

    For the Weavile's spread I got nothing to say, it seems like a solid change (I never thought of this because I don't max speed on Scarf Gothi, and I find it dumb but well). So I guess I'm gonna change this spread on all my Weavile (and oh boy I got a bunch of those).

    Thank you very much for participating, sharing your opinion on the team and improving it, I appreciate it (even if I like discussing it :nerd:).

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