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From Volt-Turn to Balance

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by kimpy7, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. kimpy7

    kimpy7

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Introduction
    -Hello all I'm kimpy7 and I've been competitively battling on and off since the late DPP days. Finding right team for me in the BW days has been somewhat of a chore due to how picky I am, yet a fun experience as well. This is a team that was inspired during the VoltTurn spark about a year or so ago and I have been working on it ever since. I like to think it has evolved into a bulky offense / balanced style of play as opposed to classic VoltTurn. The team peaked at rank 72 on Pokemon Online during the BW days, but with the release of B2W2 I can't say I have had the same luck. This is why I have come to you for help, and I hope you all like my team!

    Team Building Process
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    -Rotom-W and Scizor were the epitome of a VoltTurn core which makes it obvious why I have chose these 2 pokemon. Only having one weakness a piece, and strong defensive coverage makes them a strong pair to start out a team.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -No surprises here, Heatran makes the perfect fit, covering Scizor's fire weakness keeping my opponents guessing, while making an amazing defensive duo with Rotom. These two have become core to wearing down my opponent early
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -A defensive FWG core is something that I have always based my teams around, as it fits my playstyle well. Strong defensive/offensive coverage between Rotom, Heatran, and Breloom make them natural fits together. Breloom has been one of my favorites since the early RS days, and lucky for me, he is one of the most dangerous and threatening pokemon out there.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -My team lacked speed and instant offense, Latios seemed to fit right in. He resists key offense types such as fighting, which is what my team desperately needed. And specs Draco Meteor is enough to tear a hole into anything. Not much depth to Latios, swap in, kill, swap out.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -Lastly I wanted a late game monster. A scarfer who could outspeed other scarfers and bring the game home. The ultimate clean up killer. I came to the conclusion that scarf Moxiemence was the answer. With all the holes punch into the team with the rest of my team, this guy could easily swoop in, get some moxie stacks, and close out games.
    -It is with this team that I peaked in BW and I loved it dearly. However with the release of BW2 I felt my team was underperforming and was in need of a revamp. Here is where you come in.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -First I tested out Genesect. Seems to be the optimal scarfer in todays metagame. Has amazing coverage to terrorize almost everything out there. Though as great as he was. The extreme fire weakness had me in doubts. But the team was still strong for the most part. However, after being swept by Terrakion game after game, it was clear that change was needed.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -This is the team I've been sitting on now and it has been fairly consistent. Landorus-T remedies the HUGE fighting weakness I had to my team, and gives opposing Terrakion have a bad time. I chose Landorus-T over other physical walls because he can bring stealth rocks, tank fighting attacks like a boss, and still bring offense when needed. Additionally he brings an abuse-able debuff in intimidate. As of now he is seeming solid.

    In Depth
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 28 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Discharge
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    -The first member of my defensive core and he is just a pest. I use him primarily to spread status and make my opponents life a nightmare. I chose discharge over volt switch because it is a much better way of dealing with bulky waters. Things like Tentacruel and Jellicent would give me way more trouble than they should simple because I had no way of consistently dealing damage. The rest of it's set is fairly standard. Running a specially defensive variant to help against the air trio, a group that is seriously problematic pokemon for my team.

    -He is my lead in 99% of the games as he is fairly safe against everything my opponent has to throw at me. Getting early paralysis / burns makes the game so much easier for me as it goes on. Also, with good prediction I can keep him alive for a long long time if my opponent doesnt have a strong final blow to put him to its doom. Sustainability is the name of my game, I like my pokemon to be able to take a beating over and over again just to keep fighting back.

    [​IMG]
    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 244 SDef / 12 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Lava Plume
    - Protect
    - Roar
    - Earth Power

    -When he first came out in DP days I HATED him with a passion. But boy has he grown on me. Heatran is just amazing. Takes special/resisted hits like its no ones business. He makes a great pair with rotom turning most early games into prediction/swapfests. Lava Plume is there to follow my early game strategy of spreading status across their team. Protect is amazing to keep those leftovers ticking, and scout for enemy choice items. Roar is to help against setup sweepers, at times I'll find myself having to sacrifice my Heatran rather than let them set up. Lastly Earth Power to win the duels vs other Heatrans, amongst other things.

    -Heatran seems to be a priority threat against teams everywhere, he is no longer as safe as he once was. He isn't as obvious a counter to Sun and Hail teams as before. Dugtrio's everywhere and HP grounds / Earthquakes up the yinyang can make it difficult to keep him alive. Any tips on how to deal with this will be greatly appreciated. I've read elsewhere to consider shed shell, though I'm not sure I'm willing to sacrifice leftovers as he gets used over and over again until the last dying breath.

    [​IMG]
    Breloom (M) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 236 HP / 212 SDef / 60 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Spore
    - Seed Bomb
    - Drain Punch

    -To some extent this guy is the star of my team. Though this set may seem outdated, the amount of times I catch the opponent offguard with a bulk up tells me that people forgot how to deal with it. I choose this set over the standard techniloom sets not only for the surprise factor, but also because it beats out some of the things that would counter the techniloom set: such as gliscor and landorus-t. This mon is so powerful it will sometimes win me games on its own simply because my opponent can't deal with it. In addition to that he can also wrecks stall teams, something that I would have trouble with otherwise.

    -This set also fits right at home with my ideal defensive core. Vs all but hyper offense teams he can keep himself healthy quite well. Even against entry hazards I can take a toxic orb heal, and drain punch their switch to outheal it. Even if I have to keep swapping him out he can afford to take the beating. Once the stars align he can set up for a potential sweep. One of my main strategies in the early game is to set up my opponents team in a way (health, status, etc) to allow my breloom to bring out the pain.

    -Though it may seem counterintuitive to attempt to spread status on a team with Spore, for the most part it is quite the contrary. Spore isn't needed to set up my Breloom, it is a luxury. Usually opponents will swap in their paralyzed / burned pokemon thinking they are going to block my Spore, only to see my begin to bulkup on their useless switch-in.

    [​IMG]
    Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    -Latios has just about everything I could want in this slot. Speed, power, you name it. In my team, Latios' role is to bring instant offense when it is needed. I play him very conservatively and only bring him in when I KNOW he won't be put in danger. It is because of this that I usually use him in hit and run scenarios. Rotom just died? Time to take one of them down with me! It Latios who keeps me in the game when I am behind and brings home the clutch kills. I have decided not to use Trick on him, as his role in my team is to be able to hit whatever I need him to hit for the most damage possible. In addition to that, my Breloom covers the role of wallbreaker well enough on his own, lessening my need to shut down their walls with Trick.

    -That being said, since the release of BW2 his power seems to have dwindled a tad. New pokes such as Tornadus-t and Genesect makes him a lot harder to use. Before I could rely on him to outspeed almost anything the meta had to throw at me, now isn't so much the case. It is because of this that he is on the hot seat at the moment. Any suggestions will be most welcomed for him.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Earthquake
    - U-turn
    - Stone Edge
    - Stealth Rock

    -This slot has been the most contested in my team since it's existence. Previously held by Scarfers such as Salamence, and later Genesect. However, due to my team's HUGE weakness to fighting type pokemon, specifically Terrakion, I had to make an adjustment. It had gotten to the point where I might as well have just surrendered everytime I saw one. It was due to these adjustments that I had chosen Landorus-T. I abuse his intimidate to use him as a physical pivot / counter to fighting types. Despite the defensive spread, he can still net me the kills where they are needed. As of now he has done well in this role.

    -As stated even being used in a defensive role, his Earthquake and Stone Edge still bring quite the pain. The strong physical threats of this metagame such as Dragonite, Breloom, Terrakion, and Haxorus all have a hard time opening up my team with him here, which is exactly what my team needed.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Superpower
    -Due to my lack of a lategame sweeper I have swapped from the standard band set to a offensive swords dance set. After all my other pokemon were weakened throughout the match, I lacked the power to bring in the kills against their weakened pokemon. Although I'm not 100% set on this over the Band set, this set can really bring the pain if I am allowed a swords dance. I run max speed to outspeed mons such as defensive Heatran to ensure the sweep.

    -Not only does he sweep when the time is right, just having him on my team can create mindgames against my opponent, such as scaring off enemy Lati@s in fear of being pursuited. Additionally, he isn't really expected to be swords dance so my opponent may not be prepared for it. He isn't like a Lucario where everyone KNOWS hes swords dance and KNOWS just how to prepare for it. Plus, he's Scizor. He's one of the, if not THE most used pokemon out there for a reason.

    -Even though my opponent may not suspect a swords dance, there are many pokemon that just don't even care. If Genesect is still healthy by this point in the game, he can laugh at my pitiful attempt to set up. On the other end of things, bulky waters like Gyarados and Tentacruel don't mind me setting up at all. As powerful as a setup Scizor is, he has plenty holding him back from being the perfect pokemon for this role in my opinion.

    Major Threats
    [​IMG] - Surprisingly, offense variants of Abomasnow are a huge threat to my team. It can break down my defensive core like its his job. Sure Latios and Scizor can kill it but it can keep comin back.

    [​IMG] - Life Orb variants are a problem. Has amazing coverage against my team, and is practically immune to status. Landorus gets outsped but can scare it away with U-turn. Latios can work though if they have a trapper he's a dangerous choice.

    [​IMG] - Bulk up sets that run Ice Punch are a problem. Latios can scare him off / kill but once he gets rolling theres no stopping him other than a crit. Also, he doesn't care about my status.

    [​IMG] - Once my Heatran goes down he can have a field day with the right prediction. Breloom can take a +1/0 icebeam / flamethrower assuming no weather and spore him. Rock Polish sets though... I'm doomed.

    [​IMG] - Sub disable sets. Rotom is my only reliable way of dealing with him, if he goes down then it means trouble.

    [​IMG] - Sun sweeper heatran is a HUGE problem for my team. Breaks down my walls and the sun protects him from my latios' surf. If it runs solarbeam even my rotom cant hope to take him

    [​IMG] - If he can get his rock polish off and my rotom isn't up, he can get a clean sweep.

    [​IMG] - A scary threat for me until I get my toxic orb activted on breloom. Usually I trade blows with my rotom, though that always works against me since he can no longer take hits for me when I need him to later

    [​IMG] - As long as my Hydro Pump hits I'm good, if it doesnt well... time to put latios in some desperation scenarios.

    [​IMG] - It's blazing speed make it hard enough to deal with, but it's the fact that he can swap in repeatedly and be one of the safest offensive pokemon in the game that makes me despise it. My Rotom is the only choice I have to take repeated abuse from him. Scizor only does about 2/3rds of his life, so hes only an option if tornadus has taken rocks damage + some life orb damage. But its k he can just run away and heal back up.

    [​IMG] - HP Ground is growing popular for these moths. If they do time to pray for crits.

    -After putting it out on paper I realize most of my problems may just be that I don't take good enough care of my Rotom. However, at the moment I have the most problem with these pokemon.

    General Threats
    Spikes - As I like to play slower pace games and don't have a rapid spinner, roar-happy teams can get the better of me.

    Heal Bell - Depending on the team running it they can pose a problem, forces my team out of its comfort zone if they can keep pressure up.

    Hyper Offense - My 'walls' cant take the repeated beating that they have to put out and is usually a losing matchup for me

    Hail Teams - Oddly enough they seem pretty prepared for Scizor / Heatran and the rest of my team doesn't have the answers to beat the well built ones.

    Baton Pass - Though I'm sure almost every team has trouble vs the properly built ones I felt the need to list it. Oddly enough this is what stopped my run back in the BW days. (Damn you Eredion I don't know if you're known or even still around but you made me quit this game!)

    Final Look
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    Conclusion
    -Although being weatherless, and using a FWG core does lessen my options quite a bit, it is a style I have grown used to and has worked for me. I have chosen to break away from the VoltTurn idea for the most part, as it never really fit my style of play anyways. As far as teambuilding goes, I can be a bit close minded at times when it comes to new things, but I am posting this RMT so I can open up to fresh ideas. I have really enjoyed building this team and it means alot to me. Thank you for taking the time to read, I hope you enjoyed it. Any advice will be very much welcomed and appreciated![​IMG]
  2. kimpy7

    kimpy7

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Bump, would really appreciate any comments, assistance you have to offer.
  3. ganj4lF

    ganj4lF Nobody is safe from the power of science!
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Messages:
    789
    Hi. Your team doesn't need many comments, since it's quite solid on its own.

    The only thing I'd like to say is that many of the threats you listed can be somewhat checked with a Choice Scarf user. Gengar, Volcarona, Heatran, Tornadus, non-scarf Thundurus, are all checked by Scarf Landorus-I. While I can see why you don't want to give up your Landorus-T, in my opinion it's a fair trade, since using Lando-I in its place, you don't lose the resistance to Fighting, and while no Intimidate means that CB Stone Edge actually has a shot at KOing you after SR, you can revenge it easily or gain momentum with U-Turn while fixing many other problems your team has. You also have Latios and Scizor as safety nets against possible Terrakion sweeps, so it shouldn't be too bad.

    Landorus (open)
    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Incarnate @ Choice Scarf | Sand Force
    Naive | 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge / Rock Slide
    - U-Turn
    - Hidden Power Ice


    Also, another thing that should help you to handle both Terrakion and RP Landorus is to switch to a Bulky SD Scizor set. It can take a LO Earth Power from Landorus and a CB Stone Edge from Terrakion and remain alive even after SR, and retaliate with an (albeit weakened) Bullet Punch. This set allows you to switch in as Lando RPs, Swords Dance taking anything it has in store for you, and take him down after very residual damage. Also, Terrakion can't OHKO with Stone Edge (the main problem for the previously suggested Scarf Lando-I) and even Close Combat is not assured to do so if SR aren't on the field. While reduced coverage is annoying, the added bulk lets you set up way easier, and absence of LO recoil makes you more resilient to eventual revenge killers. Heck even non-Specs Magnezone needs SR up to OHKO with HP Fire, and even with that it's only a 75% chance.

    Scizor (open)
    [​IMG]
    Scizor @ Metal Coat | Technician
    Adamant | 252 HP / 40 Atk / 216 SpD
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite / Superpower / U-Turn


    Hope it helped. Good luck for your team.
  4. kimpy7

    kimpy7

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2010
    Messages:
    4
    Thanks alot for the suggestions, I will definitely try them out. I've never even considered running that version of Landorus so it may work well with my team. I will admit lacking a scarfer did hurt quite a bit against offensive teams. And about the bulky scizor set, that is something I have used for years now so it'll be right at home with me, I'll admit that I didn't give it enough of a chance for this team so i'll try it again. Thanks again I'll come back with how those changes work out.

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