Fusion Evolution V2 (Submission Phase)

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G-Luke

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Also important to note: Rapid Spin is lower than base 60 power. That will suck. Maybe just have it auto-disable moves of low BP instead of remove them for the rest of the game?

I honestly kinda don't like the ability fusion aspect; I think this would be much better if you just picked one of the abilities of the parents. But, this metagame is way too advanced at this stage for that to change. Seriously though, everyone needs to tone down the abilities a bit. Bael's "Instantly and permanently removes item forever on switch in and there's nothing you can do about it" is a bit broken, I think. As is "Raises attack after each water move you use" from Krookurott. Game balance is a thing.

... I say despite submitting a thing with a ton of SpA and perfect accuracy with some of the strongest yet least accurate moves in the game as well as the ability to inflict three statuses at its leisure but my point is that there's quite a few seemingly OP things floating about that will very quickly carve out an Ubers tier for this metagame.
We already have fusions that invalidate items and abilities, fusions that put foes to sleep via Resting, fusions that spam 210 base power stabs with no drawbacks, fusions that turn Technician boosted moves into U-Turn and Fusions that can paralyze foes by simply switching. (all thanks to abilities).

That aside, I think it would be alot easier for coders and players alike if it was simply immune to moves 60 base power and below.
 

AquaticPanic

Intentional Femboy Penguin
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Also important to note: Rapid Spin is lower than base 60 power. That will suck. Maybe just have it auto-disable moves of low BP instead of remove them for the rest of the game?

I honestly kinda don't like the ability fusion aspect; I think this would be much better if you just picked one of the abilities of the parents. But, this metagame is way too advanced at this stage for that to change. Seriously though, everyone needs to tone down the abilities a bit. Bael's "Instantly and permanently removes item forever on switch in and there's nothing you can do about it" is a bit broken, I think. As is "Raises attack after each water move you use" from Krookurott. Game balance is a thing.

... I say despite submitting a thing with a ton of SpA and perfect accuracy with some of the strongest yet least accurate moves in the game as well as the ability to inflict three statuses at its leisure but my point is that there's quite a few seemingly OP things floating about that will very quickly carve out an Ubers tier for this metagame.
What about the one that raises you attack by 12 stages after loosing your item? That thing is really broken. (It's the Liepard-Tauros fusion)
Well, tomorow I'll think about nerfing the ability. It's 2am here, I need sleep.

Also, one question, when thin thing is out what will be used as sprite?
 

TMan87

We shall bow to neither master nor god
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Also important to note: Rapid Spin is lower than base 60 power. That will suck. Maybe just have it auto-disable moves of low BP instead of remove them for the rest of the game?

I honestly kinda don't like the ability fusion aspect; I think this would be much better if you just picked one of the abilities of the parents. But, this metagame is way too advanced at this stage for that to change. Seriously though, everyone needs to tone down the abilities a bit. Bael's "Instantly and permanently removes item forever on switch in and there's nothing you can do about it" is a bit broken, I think. As is "Raises attack after each water move you use" from Krookurott. Game balance is a thing.

... I say despite submitting a thing with a ton of SpA and perfect accuracy with some of the strongest yet least accurate moves in the game as well as the ability to inflict three statuses at its leisure but my point is that there's quite a few seemingly OP things floating about that will very quickly carve out an Ubers tier for this metagame.
Well imo the fusion Ability is the funniest aspect of this Pet Mod, since it's the only moment where we can get creative with names and effects.
 
+

Zoroark Fusion That Doesn't Use Disguises?
Parents: Zoroark + Porygon2
Shared egg group: DNA
Offspring name: Zorogon2
New type: Dark/Normal
New base stats: 72/112/75/112/75/102 (BST 548 +20ATK +20SPE)
New ability and desc: Recursion (Illusion + Trace)= This Pokemon copies the ability of the last member of it's party.
Notable moves: Agility, Calm Mind, Dark Pulse, Flamethrower, Focus Blast, Grass Knot, Hyper Voice, Ice Beam, Knock Off, Low Kick, Memento, Nasty Plot, Night Slash, Psychic, Psyshock, Pursuit, Return, Sludge Bomb, Sucker Punch, Swords Dance, Taunt, Thunderbolt, Tri Attack, Trick, U-Turn, Zen Headbutt
Role identification: The concept behind Zorogon2 is not an uncommon one, sort of similar to The Imitater in Plants Vs. Zombies, although I'm sure there are other examples. Zorogon2 forgoes the usually Illusion based ability of Zoroark fusions to grant it's team a powerful tool; cloned abilities. While FE has no ability clause per se, there is a species clause, and almost every fusion has it's own unique ability. Zorogon2 is good for mostly two things; utility and offense. Zorogon2's ability to clone utility abilities can be very useful to teams that rely on them. Zorogon2 also has pretty good offensive stats, even if it is somewhat slow, and can outright abuse some of the abilities often given to somewhat weaker Pokemon. Zorogon2 is a very complex, technical, and meta fusion to use properly but it's worth using if you can figure it out.
Huge Power, Pure Power, Speed Boost, Download, Oblivious Absorb, Dreaded Flames, Overwhelming Presence

The ability seems slightly op seeing as you can copy any of these overpowered abilities onto it.
 
To be honest I think a lot of people go overboard when making Pressure abilities.
I fully agree with your point though in my experience it's really hard to get creative with Pressure. Most of the time you'd either end up with a very situational ability or an overpowered one. Really sucks because a lot of promising Pokémon are stuck with Pressure as their sole non-hidden ability. Just my two cents here and I also agree that Base Power Crisis needs to be balanced out.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
I fully agree with your point though in my experience it's really hard to get creative with Pressure. Most of the time you'd either end up with a very situational ability or an overpowered one. Really sucks because a lot of promising Pokémon are stuck with Pressure as their sole non-hidden ability. Just my two cents here and I also agree that Base Power Crisis needs to be balanced out.
Pressure is an ability for PP-stalling, but it's the only ability that affects PP so people tend to use it with the general idea of PP in mind. Some use it for immediate PP-halving like Vespicor, Suirizion, Enterrak and Koulion, but those have situational restricting conditions. Some Pokemon PP-stall themselves as a drawback to much better effects, like Entari, Galvantulys or my Marx submission (be sure to vote for it!). There have also been anti-PP-stalling abilities in Moltie and Stundos, and immunity to moves with low PP in Gonzap. Some have used the "double PP usage" and transformed it into doubling other negative effects for the opponent like Zaggron, which is pretty creative IMO. Some abilities also give an effect to the opponent based on the idea that a Pokemon exerts it into the opponent (like Pressure), like Silents's Lopxys (Lopxys falls into the OP territory though). The overpowered Pressure abilities are what could be called "PP wallbreaking", but some are so overpowered that they become "ANY effect breaking". Overwhelming Presence immediately removes ability and item effects with no restriction whatsoever. G-Luke's Rampardeos-Attack submission makes the opponent's first move and ability nonfunctional with no restrictions whatsoever. Aquatic Panic's Ambivile Base-Power Crisis can shut down multiple moves, irreversably and limitlessly with no restriction whatsoever (except the fact it can only target half of the moves of the meta, not all of them). Those are the problem. Hopefully I've given enough examples to help your creative block, and to stop those overpowered abilities.

Huge Power, Pure Power, Speed Boost, Download, Oblivious Absorb, Dreaded Flames, Overwhelming Presence

The ability seems slightly op seeing as you can copy any of these overpowered abilities onto it.
That's the tip of the iceberg. Intimidating Fangs, Natural Guard, Clean Match, Magnetic Surge, Strike and Pass, Fusion Powered and even Error Macro, Barb Stance and Weather Caster. All of them could be used to cause havoc in the metagame, especially because most of them were given to Pokemon with lower stats. Take for instance Basculin-Basculin's 102/90 offensive stats and compare them to Zorogon2's 112/112. Or take Huge/Pure Power or Magnetic Surge, base 112 would reach offensive stats higher than MegaMawile's 105. Or take 72/212/1/212/1/102 Blade form into consideration. And that's not mentioning the niche abilities effects like Strike and Pass that would make it a great pivot. It's pretty stupid.
 
When did this meta start caring about balance? And come to think of it, where do you even gauge balance here? And why now all of a sudden do people care after nearly 40 pages?
 

TMan87

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Not all blatantly broken fusions get in. Harem's just a special snowflake.
Heh, "snowflake", got it ? Cause it's an Ice-type Pokémon ? No ? Okay.
But anyway, Pressure is pretty one-sided and doesn't mix well with other Abilities, so it's hard to create something original using it, and it generally either a) targets a specific type of moves (when mixed with Flash Fire/Levitate/etc.) or b) doubles the PP used but boosts power (when mixed with Sheer Force/Blaze/Overgrow/Torrent/etc.).
Quite a shame most legendary Pokémon get Pressure as a standard Ability, really.
 
Okay let me be more clear about my opinion on abilities. I'm don't really mind them being OP, I like to sort of stay away from that personally but I'll admit I've come up with a few OP ability ideas. My problem is with a lot of the Pressure abilities is the same problem some game developers have with the implementing mana drain or something similar. It's more limiting than just using Taunt or Encore or whatever Move-blocking move. Heck, I accidentally created an ImprisonTransform Mon but even that prevents you from doing anything, but even that just requires you to switch out. However PP affects that Pokemon permanently as opposed to temporarily, and can leave a Pokemon useless for the rest of the match.There isn't much counterplay possible when it comes to PP stalling, unless we start carrying around Leppa berries (which even then would be iffy considering all the item negators/destroyers). Consider that Pressure only makes Pokemon lose 2PP a turn only if they're targeting that Pokemon, which isn't that bad considering it takes a long time for the effect to add up. The only other ways to reduce PP is Spite, which reduces 4 but takes up a moveslot to do so and Grudge, which requires you to take up a moveslot AND faint a pokemon to fully remove one move's PP. In other words, you need to give up your own moveslot to affect other Pokemon's moveslots significantly. On the other hand, many of these abilities have much more extreme PP draining effects than Pressure at the cost of being "more conditional". I put more conditional in quotes because you can often expect or predict these moves coming, and counter by sending out your Pressure-esque ability mon. Perhaps that's the whole point of these abilities then, to act as a deterrent; it's not too different then being able to just send in a Pokemon with an immunity to that move, but I think the punishment for the former scenario is pretty high. Maybe I'm just paranoid and these abilities are actually fine, I actually kinda convinced myself a little there weren't as bad as I originally thought while writing this, but I still think PP drain effects should be kept reasonable.

And I'm glad this discussion was brought up, it's interesting.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
When did this meta start caring about balance? And come to think of it, where do you even gauge balance here? And why now all of a sudden do people care after nearly 40 pages?
The overpowered fusion(s) will probably be banned in the future if anyone here wants a playable, fun experience. So what's the point of making overpowered fusions? Using the three or so of them in Ubers? Might as well make that a sister pet mod and allow +660 BST fusions.
Seems like a waste of votes if people are choosing the ones that they know will get banned.
 

G-Luke

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I can definately understand if Pressurizer is WAAAY too broken. I tried to balance a broke ability and offensive stats with paper thin defences and a meh offensive typing. But I will change it to dampening abilities only.
 
I can definately understand if Pressurizer is WAAAY too broken. I tried to balance a broke ability and offensive stats with paper thin defences and a meh offensive typing. But I will change it to dampening abilities only.
I also realized Black Hole was pretty broken, so I toned it down to not having any PP decrease
 

TMan87

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Will this slate be closed only once the whole Pressure discussion comes to an end ?
 

Parents: Lumineon + Alomomola
Shared egg group: Water 2
Offspring name: Luminimola
New type: Water
New base stats: 127/82/88/65/76/88 (BST: 526)
New ability and desc: Aqua-therapy (Storm Drain + Hydration) - When hit with a Water-type attack, this Pokemon's status ailments are healed. Its Special Attack will also go up by 1. Water immunity
Notable moves: Defog, Scald, U-Turn, Healing Wish, Wish, Toxic, Ice Beam, Knock Off, Mirror Coat, Tailwind, Refresh, Icy Wind, Protect
Role identification: This combo of the often forgotten Lumineon and the terror of RU, Alomomola, makes for a great Defogger, and bulky pivot. With good overall bulk and no weakness to Stealth Rock unlike most Defoggers, Luminimola can Defog quite effectively. Another selling point of Luminimola is the combo of U-Turn, Wish, and Healing Wish. A large of amount of HP makes Luminimola a good Wish user itself, but now it can throw off slow U-Turns to bring in Wish receivers safely. Healing Wish Also keeps up the momentum and completely heals an ally.

Side note: Compared to regular Alomomola, it's offensive stats are certainly better, so maybe Scald can do more than like 10% to most things.



Parents: Dugtrio + Weavile
Shared egg group: Field
Offspring name: Vile Trap
New type: Ground/Ice
New base stats: 63/110/68/58/88/133 (BST: 520)
New ability and desc: Pressure Plate (Arena Trap + Pressure) - Any Pokemon that isn't a Ghost-type, Flying-type, or Pokemon with a trapping ability cannot switch. Any Pokemon that switches against this Pokemon loses 4 PP on their last move used.
Notable moves: Earthquake, Icicle Crash, Ice Shard, Poison Jab, Stone Edge, Swords Dance, Knock Off, Low Kick, Sucker Punch, Surf (lol), Reversal, Stealth Rock, Taunt
Role identification: It's the ultimate revenge killer, because it is, indeed, a Vile Trap. Trap the opponent with Pressure Plate, kill them with it's amazing offensive typing and movepool, then switch when they bring in the counter. It's also ludicrously fast, so not much will avoid getting hit by a strong STAB move.
 
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Parents: Torterra + Whimsicott
Shared egg group: Grass
Offspring name: Terracotta
New type: Fairy + Ground
New base stats: 87/98/105/86/90/96
New ability and desc: Bamboo (Overgrow + Prankster) - This Pokemon's Grass-type moves have their priority increased by 1.
Notable moves: Cotton Guard, Earth Power, Earthquake, Energy Ball, Giga Drain, Knock Off, Moonblast, Seed Bomb, Stealth Rock, Synthesis, U-Turn
Role identification: Sadly has no Physical Fairy move but otherwise Fairy/Ground is pretty decent coverage, which frees up moves for recovery and hazards, or even priority Cotton Guard, if you're expecting a Physical attack.
 
Parents: Beedrill + Heracross
Shared egg group: Bug
Offspring name: Herambee(I'm adding m bc I'M naming it. No complaining)
New type: Poison + Fighting
New base stats: 82 / 117 / 67 / 52 / 97 / 90
New ability and desc: Power Stinger (Guts + Swarm) - Attack x1.5 when HP drops below 50% OR getting statused. Makes you immune to status.
Notable moves: Swords Dance, U-turn, Roost, Close Combat, Poison Jab, Knock Off, Rock Blast, Drill Run
Role identification: If you want a wallbreaker that hates status, this mon is for you. 117 may not be much compared to many behemoths in this meta, but it will pack a punch once you Substitute twice or switch into any moves that inflict status. It also has Roost to recover itself. So Scald users, beware of this thing.
 
Double post, but I just realized that there's this statement in the OP. I'm answering this.

So get out there and get creating! Try some new combinations! Maybe you'll make something to rival the destructive power of Mega Hazard X.

Well, here's your brother.

Parents: Charizard + Hoopa-C
Shared egg group: DNA
Offspring name: Hozard, brother of Hazard
New type: Ghost / Fire
New base stats: 79 / 97 / 69 / 149 / 107 / 105 (+20 SpA, +20 Spe)
New ability and desc: Magic Blaze (Blaze + Magician) - Removes opponent's item when opponent's health below 30%. Doesn't remove Mega Stones or unremovable Items.
Notable moves: Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Roost, Will-o-wisp, Solar Beam, Nasty Plot, Knock Off, Energy Ball
Role identification: A powerful wallbreaker... with a pretty useless Ability. It's Physically frail, but decently fast. Ghost / Fire is a decently good coverage. Tbh, this is a pale comparison because the MVP is here.



Parents: Charizard + Hoopa-C
Shared egg group: DNA
Offspring name: (Charizardite Y)
New type: Ghost / Fire
New base stats: 79 / 117 / 69 / 199 / 137 / 105
New ability and desc: Drought
Notable moves: Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Shadow Ball, Roost, Will-o-wisp, Solar Beam, Nasty Plot, Knock Off, Energy Ball
Role identification: His brother, Hazard, got a Mega X evolution with Tough Claws Flare Blitz from 171 Attack. This thing has a SUN BOOSTED FIRE BLAST FROM 199 SPECIAL ATTACK!!! His brother, Hazard, is a sweeper with a Dragon Dance in it's boosting arsenal. This has Nasty Plot to break walls (as if it doesn't hit hard enough already). This is probably the most powerful fusion you'll ever find without using a broken Ability.

Don't bother with the mega X. His brother (Hazard) outclasses it.
 

Cookie Butter

formerly the someone
http://imgur.com/JIqTFQ0
Here's the illustrated list of Pokemon that are and aren't part of Fusion Evolution.
Red means it has a fusion, Yellow means it's a pre-evo of a Pokemon who has a fusion, and Blue means it's banned.

Some of those are pretty surprising honestly. I may have possibly missed one or two but... No Abomasnow, Noivern, Gengar, Forretress or Smeargle? No Celebi, Latias, Tornadus, Melloetta or any Deoxys form besides Speed? And yet we have 5 Haxorus fusions, 4 Charizard ones and a Klang one (Yes, someone decided not to use Klinkang, but Klang the completely inferior version instead). Weird.
 
http://imgur.com/JIqTFQ0
Here's the illustrated list of Pokemon that are and aren't part of Fusion Evolution.
Red means it has a fusion, Yellow means it's a pre-evo of a Pokemon who has a fusion, and Blue means it's banned.

Some of those are pretty surprising honestly. I may have possibly missed one or two but... No Abomasnow, Noivern, Gengar, Forretress or Smeargle? No Celebi, Latias, Tornadus, Melloetta or any Deoxys form besides Speed? And yet we have 5 Haxorus fusions, 4 Charizard ones and a Klang one (Yes, someone decided not to use Klinkang, but Klang the completely inferior version instead). Weird.
Fusions to do List:
Torkoal
Swoobat
Dusknoir
Persian
etc.

I'm gonna like this thread down the line :toast:
 
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