Gardevoir (QC 0/2)

[Stratos]

i dont know too much about the bulky set so if someone could give me a good overview of how it works thatd be gr8, i'll go use it sometime soon so i can learn 4 myself

EDIT: WHAT THE FUCK I HAD THE WHOLE THING WRITTEN UP

Overview
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-Only fast Fairy-type
-Typically runs a scarf so it can be a powerful check to dragons in meta
-Overdose of support options can serve as good filler
-can switch in on special attackers once
-immune to dragon nigga

-v physically frail and thus weak to priority users
-has to run scarf so it cant switch moves q__q
-bad se coverage outside of m00nblast

Choice Scarf
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name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Moonblast
move 2: Psychic / Psyshock
move 3: Dazzling Gleam
move 4: Thunderbolt / Focus Blast
ability: Telepathy / Trace
item: Choice Scarf
evs: 140 Def / 140 SpA / 228 Spe
nature: Modest

Moves
========
-Moonblast is main stab bc fairy is jizz-tier and garde is basically only offensive fairy
-Garde doesnt have much to do with its other moves legit theyre all filler
-Psyshock provides decent neutral coverage against fires/poisons
-Thunderbolt hits charizard, focus blast hits steels but it's Focus Ass
-Spread gives me boners, even weak spread

Set Details
========
-OHKO Garchomp 100% of the time; outspeed noivern
-if you instead want more spe you can do timid 252 spa 172 spe 84 def but you will have like a 12% chance to get trolled by moonblast and nearly always die to talon bb
-couldnt always live talon BB even with full defensive investment so I just maximized mix bulk
-telepathy if u have an eq/boom, otherwise use trace its nifty but situational af

Usage Tips
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-try to avoid switching it in on anything but dargon moves and weak/middling neutral special hits
-use it to threaten and ko dragons/darks; mostly spam moonblast but use another move as the situation demands
-

Team options
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-intimidators are especially good bc then u live things like scizor bb (mence/scrafty/krook)
-pokemon that beat steel and fire types are nice (mence/scrafty/krook, fire types of your own)
-

Bulky Support
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set name: Bulky Support
move1: Moonblast
move2: Psychic / Protect
move3: Will-o-Wisp
move4: Ally Switch / Trick Room / Taunt
ability: Telepathy / Trace
item: Lum Berry / Sitrus Berry
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
nature: Bold

Moves
========
-Moonblast and psyshock as before offer good dual STAB coverage
-Will-o-wisp lets you handle dragons in a different way which is why you dont need the spa evs, and also handle most common garde switch-ins. also burning shit is great
-Last move depends on team; taunt for faster teams that dont like amoonguss / prankster para / prankswag, trick room for slow teams that like tr, ally switch if youre not particularly worried about either it's more or less follow me but at +1 prio

Set Details
========
-that is what garde looks like with optimized mix bulk, kinda sad yep
-abilities: see above
-lum if you are using taunt is good; otherwise i'd probably go sitrus
-safety goggles can also be used if you're a real huge fan of shitting on amoonguss

Usage Tips
========
-focuses less on trying to ohko things with moonblast—still a nice perk though—and more on supporting the team with its other two moves


Team Options
========
-

Other Options
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-wish (on set 2)
-thunder wave
-healing wish
-babiri
-mega set with hyper beam
-screens
-heal pulse
-destiny bond

Checks and Counters
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-Scizor (if kill is avoided, will risk a burn)
-Scizor (once wasnt enough)
-Talonflame (less likely to kill, less likely to get crippled)
-generally bulky pokemon, for the first set
-fake out, for either set really
-mega gar with protect
-aegis

 

[Laurel]

was this ever a WIP you're missing like counters and stuff, like Aegislash hard counters :(

 

[Stratos]

i had the whole thing written up and fsr only a little bit posted >:O

but its fixed now, at least mostly, i had to rewrite from scratch UGH

 

[Nightwalkr]

I'm very unsure about running a status move on a Choice set. It can very easily work against you, especially after both opposing Pokémon are burned and switching out is not possible. If anything I'd recommend changing it to
Move 3: Thunderbolt
Move 4: Focus Blast / Will-O-Wisp (or vice versa)
Also Choice Specs should also be considered, although judging by it's speed I'm unsure how useful it would be.

For the bulky set, from my experience Protect is extremely beneficial. I honestly didn't get much use from Psyshock when I used my bulky set last gen (Psyshock, Ally Switch, Will-O-Wisp, Protect) as it served more of a Taunted, chip damage, or fighting type counter option, all of which is covered by Moonblast. Really, the only thing you would be missing out on KOing is Gengar. I can understand why it would be labeled is important, but if you ask me Protect should be at least another option in the second move slot.

For the other options: Wish, and Healing Wish do not seem like too viable options, and Pixilate Hyper Beam and Hidden Power Fire are kind of pushing it. Heal Pulse, Hypnosis, Light Screen, Reflect, and Destiny Bond should be taken into consideration for other options as well.

 

[Sixonesix]

Dazzling Gleam should feature more prominently on the choice sets at least. From my experience the best choice Pokemon are ones that are capable of dealing damage to both Pokemon, so that despite being linear they don't get punished as hard for being linear. Things like Kyogre, Terrakion, Tyranitar, Landorus-T. Gardevoir is not a good scarf user like those four were in their respective VGC seasons but Dazzling Gleam at least lets it pretend to be.

If nothing else the ability to pick off two low health Pokemon at once (or a low health Pokemon and a Dragon-type at ~50%) is sometimes pretty crucial for Gardevoir and is useful more often than, say, Will-O-Wisp. You'll still likely want to use Moonblast more often than Dazzling Gleam but they each have their separate uses and Gardevoir is usually fine with both in its moveset.

 

[TheMantyke]

Going to back up Sixonesix's claims about Dazzling Gleam. I've had it on my scarf Gardevoir for a while not and it's been very useful. Yes, it's very weak compared to Moonblast, but the sheer usefulness of a spread attack that's basically Fairy-type Rock Slide (bar the flinch chance) is really nice. I would like to see the first set running it, and a moveset of something like Moonblast / Psychic / Dazzling Gleam / Thunderbolt or Focus Blast

Also, what do you folks think about Psychic vs Psyshock? In format's past, I know Psyshock was the go to attack to hit Hitmontop and specially defensive built Pokemonon on their lower Defense, but this format is really physical compared to how it's been. I'm leaning moreso towards letting Psychic get the primary slash on slot two.

 

[Nightwalkr]

Also, what do you folks think about Psychic vs Psyshock? In format's past, I know Psyshock was the go to attack to hit Hitmontop and specially defensive built Pokemonon on their lower Defense, but this format is really physical compared to how it's been. I'm leaning moreso towards letting Psychic get the primary slash on slot two.

I've been getting more success with Psychic, but only marginally. It really seems down to preference and team planning/balance at this point, definitely slash worthy.

 

[Stratos]

ive made the changes suggested. i thought that a non-item boosted rock slide with no flinch chance and no notable 4x weaks wouldn't be worth it (in doubles we use trick > razzle dazzle) but i could see its uses too, so yeah im ready for further checks n such

 

[tofucocoa]

what do the EVs on the scarf set live? and on the team options on scarf, mention chomper/charizard for a mini zapchomp combo. garde also threatens the more common zard checks (chomper/ttar). i'd also put trace over telepathy since trace is slightly more useful since not every team with garde has eq.

on the second set, team options needs to be filled in, probably with much of the same stuff but add in stuff like kanga that can take advantage of support or mence that draws in dragon moves for you to ally switch

 

[Stratos]

It doesnt live anything in particular but it upgrades you from "talon bb fucks you" to "talon bb only fucks you if lo and it gets a high roll"; you can put them in SPA if you want instead im not sure what to do there

 

[TheMantyke]

Talked on IRC about this with you, this is what I'd like to see as the EVs on the Choice Scarf set:

• I'd like 4 Def / 252 SpAtk / 252 Speed to be the default Ev spread and Modest as the primary nature. Timid slashed afterwords to outspeed Mega Gengar and Aerodactyl.
• Mention in set details that you can take some EVs out of Speed or Special Attack and invest then in bulk. Recommend investing in Defense first since HP barely helps defense or Special Defense.
• On that subject, I'd like to see a list of relevant SpAtk, Speed, and Defense investments here so people can choose what option fits their team the best.

Also, go ahead and condense the mention of Scizor and Aegislash into a mention of Fairy resistant Steel-types in general. Mega Mawile and Ferrothorn deserve mention here.

 

[Martin]

I'm amazed that Gardevoirite has yet to even be mentioned in this thread. It is, imo, the best item on the bulky set due to that impressive special defense stat, higher special attack and speed than un-scarfed variants without sacrificing any physical bulk either.
Also I'm very sceptical about running Focus Blast on such a frail pokemon where a miss on a single-target attack is often fatal.
I'd dash Dazzling Gleam with Moonblast on the bulky set for the reasons stated by Sixonesix and TheMantyke in an earlier post. The utility of a Fairy-type Rock Slide (minus flinch chance) is amazing.

 

[Jonater]

This is just a personal thing but you could slash shadow ball over Dazzling Gleam to hit opposing Gardevoirs and other psychic pokemon.

 

[bwebber]

I'm amazed that Gardevoirite has yet to even be mentioned in this thread. It is, imo, the best item on the bulky set due to that impressive special defense stat, higher special attack and speed than un-scarfed variants without sacrificing any physical bulk either.
Also I'm very sceptical about running Focus Blast on such a frail pokemon where a miss on a single-target attack is often fatal.
I'd dash Dazzling Gleam with Moonblast on the bulky set for the reasons stated by Sixonesix and TheMantyke in an earlier post. The utility of a Fairy-type Rock Slide (minus flinch chance) is amazing.

A bit of a waste of a mega slot. It doesn't allow you to outspeed most stuff since it lacks Scarf, or be hard hitting (or bulky) without Specs. Gardevoir also doesn't have a good matchup against things in its new speed tier.

 

[Jonater]

Since it does have a mega form, you should atleast add an analysis on it. Somebody is bound to want to use mega gard.

 

[Inspirited]

Zack Thornberg did an excellent job at analyzing Gardevoir on EggyEmporium. Take what ever you can from it but definitely take the spread for bulkyvoir since it is much better than the one posted right now.
http://www.eggyemporium.com/analyses/gardevoir/

 

[DJQuack8D]

I find the lack of a Ferrothorn mention in Checks/Counters a bit odd. It annihilates the Scarf set with Gyro Ball, resists both STABs and (if you run Ray Rizzo's set) laughs at Will-O-Wisp.

 

[Unowninator]

Is this strategy worth mentioning? E8GD-WWWW-WWW7-FXTN

I mean, it bypassed Tailwind and Quick Guard and it really got me by surprise.

 

[Stratos]

if anyone would like to take this, feel free

 

[Martin]

I'll drop Lanturn for now. I'd much rather do this, but its just a temporary drop of the analysis, so (unless its taken by someone else) I will come back to it when I finish Garde.