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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by Chameleon, Oct 1, 2010.

  1. Chameleon


    Jan 18, 2010
    Stats: 111 / 83 / 68 / 92 / 82 / 39

    Sticky Hold – This Pokemon’s item cannot be taken.
    Storm Drain – This Pokemon draws in all water-type moves, renders the move powerless, and raises this Pokémon’s special attack.
    Sand Strength (Dream World) – Raises the power of Rock-, Ground-, and Steel-type moves during a sandstorm.

    Gastrodon has always been a lesser used Pokemon overshadowed by its competition. Water/Ground was a useful but common type in Gen IV, with Swampert seizing the OU niche with its great stats and Stealth Rock, Quagsire taking NU, UU and Ubers thanks to Water Absorb, and Whiscash even setting itself apart with Dragon Dance in NU. And if you thought we had enough Water/Grounds already, Gamageroge has arrived with Swift Swim, Poison Hand, and decent bulk.

    Our favorite Sea Slug needed something to set it apart from the competition. And in Gen V, it received just what it needs. An updated Storm Drain, the addition of Sand Strength, and the move Boiling Water give it a new chance at success. It may have trouble with the new stat monsters that have emerged, but Gastrodon should find some new love this generation!

    Notable moves bolded, iffy ones underlined.
    Level Up Moves (open)
    Mud Sport
    Water Pulse
    Mud Bomb
    Hidden Power
    Rain Dance
    Body Slam
    Muddy Water

    Egg Moves (open)

    Mirror Coat
    Spit Up
    Trump Card
    Clear Smog - Special Poison, 50 BP, -- Acc. : Returns stat changes to their normal level

    TMs (open)

    TM06 - Toxic
    TM07 - Hail
    TM10 - Hidden Power
    TM13 - Ice Beam
    TM14 - Blizzard
    TM15 - Hyper Beam
    TM17 - Protect
    TM18 - Rain Dance
    TM21 - Frustration
    TM26 - Earthquake
    TM27 - Return
    TM28 - Dig
    TM32 - Double Team
    TM34 - Sludge Wave - Special Poison, 95 BP, 100 Acc. : 10% chance to poison
    TM36 - Sludge Bomb
    TM37 - Sandstorm
    TM39 - Rock Tomb
    TM42 - Facade
    TM44 - Rest
    TM45 - Attract
    TM48 - Sing A Round - Special Normal, 60 BP, 100 Acc. : Powers up when used with allies in succession
    TM55 - Boiling Water - Special Water, 80 BP, 100 Acc. : 30% chance to burn
    TM68 - Giga Impact
    TM70 - Flash
    TM71 - Stone Edge
    TM78 - Level Ground - Physical Ground, 60 BP, 100 Acc. : Lowers the speed of those nearby
    TM80 - Rock Slide
    TM87 - Swagger
    TM90 - Substitute
    TM94 - Rock Smash
    HM03 - Surf
    HM04 - Strength
    HM05 - Waterfall
    HM06 - Dive

    Some sets below. Changes or additions are welcome!

    1) Bulky Water
    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Storm Drain
    Bold, 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Sp.D
    - Boiling Water
    - Earth Power / Ice Beam
    - Toxic
    - Recover

    Your standard bulky set. The given EVs provide allow Gatrodon to check common rain sweepers that lack a grass move. Neither a +2 LO Kabutops nor a Specs Omastar can 2HKO you through leftovers, and Earth Power will always KO back after SR and one LO recoil (and sometimes without). Boiling water at +1 in rain does about the same, and even when unboosted keeps physical attackers at bay. More Sp.D EVs can be invested to capitalize on Gastrodon's better special bulk.

    2) Offensive
    Gastrodon @ Life Orb
    Storm Drain
    Modest, 152 HP / 252 Sp.A / 104 Def
    - Surf / Boiling Water
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power / HP Grass
    - Recover

    Switch in on a water attack, boosting your Special attack, further compounded by Life Orb. With some prediction, you can seriously debilitate your counters. For example,
    +1 LO Ice Beam vs. 0/0 Venusaur: 95% - 112.3%
    In doubles feel free to run Bulb as your item and Protect, and absorb your allies' surfs for a +2 Sp.A boost (presumably).

    3) Ubers (not that we know them yet)
    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Storm Drain
    Calm, 252 HP / 4 Sp.A / 252 Sp.D
    - Ice Beam
    - Earth Power
    - Toxic / Substitute
    - Recover
    Timid Choice Specs Kyogre Ice Beam: 32.9% - 39%. Discounting entry hazard damage (you resist SR too), Timid Kyogre can never defeat you without HP grass, Toxic, a critical hit, a freeze, or Calm Mind + Ice Beam. That's better than Palkia or Latias. If Kyogre is locked into the wrong move, you come in for free or get a boost, forcing it out and letting you poison or hit the switch-in hard.

    Why substitute? Here are some calcs using the given spread at +1 Sp.A. All defensive natures are neutral.
    (NOTE: The Pokemon listed are not necessarily gen V ubers)
    Calcs (open)
    Earth Power vs. 120/0 Dialga: 73.3% - 87.3%
    Earth Power vs. 0/0 Zekrom: 79.8% - 95%
    Earth Power vs. 0/0 Reshiram: 68.6% - 80.9%
    Ice Beam vs. 32/0 Rayquaza: 115.9% - 137%
    Ice Beam vs. 0/0 Shaymin-S: 141.9% - 167.7%
    Ice Beam vs. 4/0 Groudon (with Kyogre, strange): 61.4% - 72.5%
    Ice beam vs. 4/0 Latios: 39.1% - 46.4%
    Ice beam vs. 0/0 Giratina-O: 43.5% - 51.2%
    Ice Beam vs. 4/0 Garchomp: 122.9% - 145.3%
    Ice Beam vs. 0/0 Salamence: 139% - 164.4%

    4) Curse
    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Sticky Hold / Storm Drain / Sand Strength
    Bold, 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Sp.D
    - Curse
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Recover

    Use curse to patch up your exposed defense stat and hit hard with a semi-STAB edgequake. Gastrodon's decent special bulk and lack of weaknesses supports it in this endeavor. Shandera, or even one if its prevos (one has 95 base Sp.A!), can trap and eliminate grass types that would otherwise hinder your set up. As for abilities, Sticky Hold makes you Trick-proof, Storm Drain eases setting up and walling, and Sand Strength boosts your attacks if you whip up a storm beforehand.

    Other options: A Stockpile set with Boiling Water or Surf / Stockpile / Toxic / Recover could work, but you are vulnerable to Taunt, Pseudo-hazing, and Toxic. I've used it to success in Gen IV NU, however. CounterCoat is also available, and Clear Smog is a useful variant of Haze. Memento is a useful support move, and you can predictably draw in grass types to be set up on. Mixed attacking sets with Storm Drain or Sand Strength could also be promising, but lack power. Yawn is always useful for status infliction and forcing switches and can pin down a Grass type that could harm Gastrodon later.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    And there we have it. Has Gen V been kind to Gastrodon, or given it enemies that it just cannot handle? Let's see what this slug can do, and if you have any ideas for it.
  2. M BLADE


    Jul 6, 2008
    Well, now i can finally say that Gastrodon is the better Water/Ground Curser now (with Storm Drain to pick the water immunity).

    Oh, and Body Slam can be useful when paired with Waterfall on the Curse set.

    Other than that: it seems Gastrodon is the most sucessuful Water/Ground special attacker after all. With Storm Drain and Sand Strenght (what moves are boosted by this anyway?).
    Shame it doesn't get Hydro Pump, but hey.

    As a bulky water: it's basically a more special oriented Quagsire. I guess.
  3. Wynought


    Sep 12, 2010
    Wow, loving the Storm Drain buff. Gastrodon, imo, was amazing in Gen IV and now it looks even better. I wouldn't use it as a Bulky Water myself, i'd opt for a LO or Choice Specs set just for the sheer power, already present bulk, and reliable recovery. But, in the lower tiers which is where I hope Gastrodon stays, the Bulky Water set is my favourite.
  4. BurningMan

    BurningMan fueled by beer

    Dec 21, 2009
    Yeah he finally can compete with Quagsire and i think he will be the better Kyogre Counter since he can actually do something with his respectable 92 SpA after he gets a boost and takes Special hits way better than quagsire.

    Can see him getting some use in UU with his water immunity, reliable recovery, usable attacking stats and Boiling water being great on him just like on every water poke.
  5. Green Mage

    Green Mage

    Apr 25, 2008
    M-Blade wtf @ your avatar.

    Sand Strength raises the power of ground, rock and steel type moves in a sandstorm. That's the last description I heard anyway.

    I'm glad that Gastrodon learned these things, but it was always so outclassed by derp Quagsire in UU. Gastrodon just looks so much cooler, and now it has a water immunity...it isn't quite water absorb, but still useful enough. I'm not sure how useful Sand Power will be. This thing isn't very offensive; the SPA boost from storm drain is just a nice little bonus compared to the immunity. The good news is that it learns earth power.
  6. GtM


    Jun 3, 2009
    Wow, eat your heart out, Quagsire. You have been made redundant by a sea slug. D:

    In all seriousness, the buff given to Storm Drain, and Gastrodon's excellent supporting movepool (CounterCoat, Recover, a whole mess of bulk-up moves, Boiling Water, even /Memento/ for Pete's sake) really makes him a good contender for UU this generation, maybe even BL or OU. If he learned Stealth Rock, he'd almost make Swampert redudant too. :D That said, a little more physical bulk would have been nice.
  7. Thee


    Apr 22, 2009
    It is a shame that Gastrodon does not learn Stealth Rock, as considering its decent bulk, immunity to water, and instant reliable recovery, he has a nice edge over swampert. The immunity to water is particularly helpful if rain is going to be ubiquitous as it is predicted to be. As stated before numerous times, it makes no sense that pokemon like Blissey or Azelf get SR but pokemon like Gastrodon don't.
  8. gamer_reloaded


    Oct 17, 2007
    Then again, since SR is a 4th gen TM that won't be usable in all modes, The only reason to use Swampert over Gastrodon then becomes Roar, and Gastrodon can now mimic that (using it's new Hazeclone) as well, without the shuffling of course.

    Long live the Sea Slug!
  9. Thee


    Apr 22, 2009
    Why can't Swampert use SR? Male Swampert from D/P can have it and could pass it on to DW swamperts through breeding (If the information I have heard is correct).

    Even if damp was not compatible with SR, people would use Swampert anyway.

    Gastrodon's defenses are also lower than Swampert's, especially physically. This means it is harder to use him as effectively as a counter pokemon Swampert usually checks.
  10. Chameleon


    Jan 18, 2010
    Swampert does have the edge in stats, I'll admit. If rain becomes popular in its tier due to Drizzle Politoed, however, Gastrodon might rise to the challenge better than Swampert. I doubt Swampert will be replaced by Gastrodon, but at least it should thrive a tier below it. Darn Stealth Rock deprivation for Ground types (and Flygon, too)!

    Quagsire looks like it will head more towards the set-up counter with the Unaware ability. Gastrodon's physical defense is actually nearly as good as Quagsire's thanks to its higher base HP.
    That's good, I'll edit that into the OP. I wonder how much the boost is, because it could really help the Curse set.
  11. Bombkirby


    Apr 2, 2009
    I've been using this thing. Its gotten REALLY good. With the abundance of Boil Over, I've had many chances to abuse storm drain. One such occasion gave it just enough fire power to sweep the last 3 pokes on my opponent's team! Very useful! Try him out guys! His recover is amazing too.
  12. Limewire

    Limewire PRESS R TO WIN
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    May 2, 2010
    Buffed-up ability, new pHazing move, CounterCoat, and 50% recovery (which Swampert lacks)? Yes please. Too bad it can't learn SR, but regardless, I can't wait to try this thing out.

    Boiling Water's 30% burn rate should be able to help Gastrodon out.
  13. the voice of reason

    the voice of reason

    Feb 1, 2007
    Gastrodon has 88.9% as much physical defense, when fully EV'd and natured to defend, as Swampert. That same Gastrodon has about 97.5% as much special defense. That's awfully close. I mean, I wouldn't use him in quite the same way, but his (slightly) higher special attack is tempting as well... With 5 or 10 more base HP, I would drool at the possibility of using Gastrodon. With 5 or 10 more base defense, Gastrodon would be moderate to high OU. But that 88.9% becomes an issue when countering Tyranitar and the like. Personally, I think recover makes up for it. Whether other people will think so remains to be seen. I have not run into a single Gastrodon on PO so far, so I can't really say. And I'm not sure how exactly to fit him on a team, for that matter. The lack of stealth rock means he has to rely on tanking, rather than supporting.
  14. AlphaSpade


    Jun 27, 2006
    I've been giving Gastrodon a spin in Ubers, and I must say he does a good job holding his weight, being able to counter non-CMResTalk Kyogre and most Palkia (Physically based variants will give it trouble). It doesn't die that easily since it's lone weakness is fairly rare.
  15. Green Mage

    Green Mage

    Apr 25, 2008
    I've been using this on my sand team in the interest of testing and I have been very, very impressed. I actually prefer it to be specially defensive, that way it takes care of fires more easily and boil over is burning stuff anyway.

    I'm probably going to continue using this over swampert. Recover and Storm Drain is just better, and I don't feel like swampert was taking hits better anyway.
  16. JojoX3


    Oct 10, 2009
    I ran into two Gastrodons(Stockpile set) so far and I can say that this thing gives me way more trouble than Swampert ever did. It might have a little less defense and special defense, but it has a better ability than Swampert(Damp doesn´t help much after Explosion´s nerf) and recovery, which makes it arguably better than Pert. With a good Grass resist, this thing is a defensive beast.
  17. Bombkirby


    Apr 2, 2009
    Agreed. This thing is far more troublesome than Swampy ever was for me. I paired mine with Morobareru (grass poison) which easily resists grass attacks and regenerates when u switch it out. And it can spore.
  18. blasphemy1


    Aug 1, 2007
    I've been using the same combination, haha. It's wonderful, really. Although the big Pokeball mushroom doesn't lure many Water-type attacks, Fire-types do. Heatran pairs wonderfully with the two, especially Gastrodon. Gastrodon absorbs Water-type moves, while Heatran tanks Grass-type moves like a champ. Gastrodon absolutely destroys most of them with either Toxic or Curse. Taunt Gyarados will eventually be burned by Boiling Water, and it can't do a whole lot anyway (still not a great match up, but you can at least get a nice pivot into the Waterfall).
  19. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Jul 24, 2010
    Those two seem like an excellent pair. What set are you running on each? I assume you can slash Toxic on Gastro (if that's what you're using anyway), give it to Moro, and free up a moveslot on Gastro. I'd like to try a tanking Moro with Spore/Giga Drain/Toxic/Stun Spore or Leech Seed with a Gastrodon as follows:

    @ Leftovers
    oh god i am not good with ev (I know I'd want good defenses with a little SpAtk investment, but for the life of me I can't crunch the numbers)
    Storm Drain
    – Stockpile
    – Boiling Water
    – Earth Power
    – Recover

    @ Blasphemy1: Do you find Curse works better than Stockpile for more attacking power? Or have you not tried Stockpile? And what ability are you using?
  20. Bombkirby


    Apr 2, 2009
    I try and lure water attacks with Fire Moth.

    The BEST part of Storm Drain is that 50% of pokemon players dont know it even has it. XD They assume its essentially Swampert and wanna deal stab neutral damage to it with their water types. But to their dismay it absorbs the attack and becomes super powerful.

    Also this thing is a BEAST in triples. Saves the entire team from surf and gets stronger while doing so.
  21. Bombkirby


    Apr 2, 2009
    I try not to use toxic because it can screw with spore. And Moro usually needs that to get into it's sub.

    Thats the general Gastrodon set I see on other people's sets. Works very well.

    Mine has that move set except for one tiny difference; I gave it ice beam. Theres lots of dragons running around and grass switch ins that I can predict. ice beam has been very useful. Plus I'm trying to avoid using stat boosters thanks to ditto running around. Don't wanna max my defenses just to have ditto steal the show.
  22. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Jul 24, 2010
    I see. Yeah, no point in using Toxic if you're already running another status move in Spore.

    I can't wait to try this guy out. I think I'll play around with the set I wrote up, then a set like yours with Ice Beam for Stockpile. Glory to the sea slug!

    Also, how would Hihidaruma work as a fire in a Fire/Water/Grass core like Blasphemy1 mentioned? Moro is defensive, Gastro works as a bulky offense, and Hihi does well at just tearing shit apart. Heatran does the same job, but I feel like trying Hihi out because he's much faster (and the trio's pretty slow without him) and can still deal tons of damage after Moro and Gastro have dealt with his counters.
  23. Murkglow


    Sep 21, 2010
    With Sleep clause you can only Spore one guy. Having Toxic isn't wasted as there are five other poke just dieing for a status effect. Of course if you're running Boiling Water then Toxic conflicts with your chance of Burn but you can't be sure you'll get a burn while Toxic is much more reliable and potentially the better status depending on what you're facing...
  24. Celest


    Feb 6, 2010
    Wow. Storm Drain Gastro has been working wonders for me! I've been running this set, and pretty much destroying with TS and SR support.

    Ability: Storm Drain
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Def/8 SpDef
    ~Boiling Water
    ~Earth Power

    If you switch in on a water type move, and Stockpile on the switch(which happens surprisingly often), you'll be left at 330 SpAtk to hurt with, and 425/352/333 defenses to work with. If you can get off two stockpiles, you're a pain to take down. Three? You're pretty much set. I run this with all entry hazards, so I rarely have trouble taking down enemies, and I live basically forever. If the enemy puts up Sandstorm, they usually suffer more than I do.
  25. PokéMontage


    Nov 23, 2010
    Swampert may have to watch out. It seems like Gastrodon is the first Water/Ground type that may be able to truly compete for a team slot with the mud fish. I would say that they're actually on par with each other defensively. Swampert has a lot more Defense but Gastrodon counteracts this with Recover and an extra immunity.

    Really, it all comes down to Stealth Rock.

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