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Metagame Gen V Balanced Hackmons

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by verbatim, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. nyph

    nyph

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    It does not need to be all that threatening when nothing can touch it while it can still attack.

    Assist does not select the moves on the pokemon it is used on. No Guard should not hit on it either. Absolutely everything targetted on Giratina miss. Including self hit moves miss while under shadow force. So if you use assist then the next turn use swords dance it will miss(wtf). You can still use opponent targetted moves like attacks and curse(which is one of the only boosting moves that work).

    It works way more effectively than it should.
    Also kyurem-b with assist,flame charge, dragon tail, curse should be at least as good if not better than the Giratina set I posted.
  2. ForeverPerfectXI

    ForeverPerfectXI

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    No Guard hits through Shadow Force.
  3. R7Rules

    R7Rules

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    I think this will be quite a good Kyurem-B set:
    Kyurem-B@Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: Max in every Stat
    Nature: Adamant
    Moves:
    - Shift Gear
    - Icicle Crash
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Dragon Claw

    Why this set is good:
    1. Once the Toxic Orb has activated, Kyurem-B is immune to status and it gains 12.5% recovery every turn, increasing its length on the battlefield
    2. It has near perfect coverage in 3 moves (no-one uses Magnezone, Rotom-H or Rotom-F), as well as 3 solid moves to back them up with
    3. It has a move to set-up a sweep with, and it has no problem with Heart swap Groudon thanks to its STAB Icicle Crash and its whopping base 170 Attack.

    Edit: 1. Dragon Dance to Shift Gear (Forgot about that move)
    2. Bolt Strike to Hi Jump Kick
  4. jackm

    jackm

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    Dragon Dance is 100% outclassed by Shift Gear. Also, if your opponent is running Prankster Heart Swap Groudon (a personal favorite of yours truly) it could actually give you problems, assuming it doesn't come in on Icicle Crash. Also, you should replace Bolt Strike with Hi Jump Kick or Substitute. Bolt Strike only hits one common pokemon (Lugia) super effectively, and Icicle Crash 2HKOs anyways. Hi Jump Kick can 2HKO Slaking, which would otherwise be able to switch into this set and immediately threaten the rest of your team. It also just generally helps you combat any Steel-Type switchins. Substitute would be there for obvious reasons, to buffer revenge kills from Blissey as well as giving you breathing room for prediction.
  5. Hawkstar

    Hawkstar Ascend to holy air and breathe, transcend earthly boundaries
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    I'm loving this tier so far! It allows me a ton of creativity in teambuilding, but there's just so much to prepare for that it can be overwhelming sometimes. Here's one of my favorite sets to use so far:

    Giratina @ Leftovers
    Trait: Hydration
    EVs: Maxed
    Calm Nature
    - Rest
    - Shadow Ball
    - Toxic
    - Aura Sphere

    In tandem with a Drizzle user, Hydration Giratina is an awesome wall. It has perfect coverage in 2 moves, so I can just sit there and absorb hits while dishing out some damage as well. Toxic is for putting a timer on stuff, such as the Arceus formes, and of course Shedinja. Rest is perfect with Hydration, allowing me to heal back to full health with no downside. Also, all that Spore BS being flung around is ineffective, and in fact can benefit me by allowing a free turn for Leftovers recovery.
  6. DryBoo

    DryBoo

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    I figure I'll go ahead and post my team which got me to third on PS's broken ladder (doesn't mean that much but whatever) since I'm pretty much done with it. All the natures are Jolly.

    Show Hide
    Lvl 1 Swinub @ Focus Sash
    Snow Warning
    -Endeavor
    -Toxic Spikes
    -Magic Coat
    -Extremespeed

    Lvl 1 Swinub @ Focus Sash
    Prankster
    -Spore
    -Destiny Bond
    -Endeavor
    -Taunt

    Lvl 1 Swinub @ Focus Sash
    Scrappy
    -Endeavor
    -Magic Coat
    -Knock Off
    -Extremespeed

    Lvl 1 Swinub @ Focus Sash
    Magic Bounce
    -Endeavor
    -Extremespeed
    -Hail
    -U-turn

    Lvl 1 Swinub @ Shell Bell
    Sturdy
    -Endeavor
    -Extremespeed
    -Magic Coat
    -Forsight

    Deoxys-S @ Lum Berry
    Mold Breaker
    -Close Combat
    -U-turn
    -Magic Coat
    -Rapid Spin

    Lol and all that but I swear it works.
  7. verbatim

    verbatim This will be the day
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    Eh, FEAR is good at taking people by surprise, but like in every other tier, its the living incarnation of a one trick pony. If you see it, you know exactly what you are facing and how to react to it. While it does have an advantage on a good number of pokemon and can be very devastating, you run the risk of being nearly instantly defeated from the start if your opponent is equipped to deal with you.
  8. Varfor

    Varfor

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    Toxic Orb/Poison Heal/Recover Giratina works just as well, if not better, as it has 12.5% recovery per turn and can use Psycho Shift instead of Toxic to be able to poison Magic Bounce pokemon. With the 12.5% recovery per turn (which is effectively doubled if you run protect) and taking in to account Giratina's huge defenses, Recover is not much worse than Hydration Rest and also does not rely on Drizzle support.
  9. Dragonicwari

    Dragonicwari

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    With just about every offensive Pokemon seeming to run around with contrary, has anyone had any success with unaware? I have been considering something like this to counter Shedinja and contrary;

    Giratina @ leftovers
    Unaware
    Bold
    252 everything
    Dragon tail
    Will o wisp
    Recover
    Thunder wave
  10. Varfor

    Varfor

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    I would not suggest using Giratina to counter Contrary users as most contrary users know Draco Meteor, which puts a huge dent in Giratina with or without boosts. Lugia would probably be a better Unaware pokemon, as it still is very bulky, but is not weak to Draco Meteor, V-Create, Overheat or Superpower, which I have found are the more common moves used by Contrary users (If the Contrary user is Mewtwo or Deoxys-A, Psycho Boost would be likely used as well, which Lugia also resists).
    I have been using a Prankster Spore Registeel to deal with Contrary users, and it works very well. It can come in on Draco Meteor, put the contrary user to sleep and then phaze them with Dragon Tail.
  11. nyph

    nyph

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    A while ago I ran unaware heatran and that was a beast at countering contrary. Quiver dance/recover/lava plume/dragon pulse is the set I ran on it I think. Heatran resists draco meteor and psycho boost, and only takes neutral from overheat and v-create. Most contrary users can't 2hko with v-create. So the only move you have to watch out for is superpower, which is somewhat rare.
    Heatran is in my opinion way underused. It has absolutely amazing typing, decent bulk and great special attack. Another really good set that I used to run is:
    Heatran @ Leftovers
    Magic Bounce
    -Substitute
    -Leech seed
    -Quiver dance
    -Lava plume
    This thing if it gets a sub and a quiver dance off is really annoying, as you can subseed counters and burn stuff in general. Also if Heatran is on high HP he can pp stall Blissey with sub.
  12. Gerard

    Gerard

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    Unaware Chansey can also prove to be incredibly hard to kill, she isn't even OHKOed by superpower and with Cotton Guard can anything common switch ins throw at her, nothing Specially based will ever scratch her, I've found her a great partner to Metagross which then takes everything physical (she can even pass it so he can set up)
  13. verbatim

    verbatim This will be the day
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    For those of you who are interested, with the release of Smog Issue #21 comes the article, "Introduction to 'Balanced' Hackmons". This article is a fantastic way for newcomers to introduce themselves to the meta and for veterans of the Pure Power Slaking era to reacquaint themselves with the tier.
  14. DryBoo

    DryBoo

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    First of all I have a random set I came up with that works nice under hail (which I seriously think is underated in the metagame).

    Weavile @Toxic Orb
    Poison Heal
    Jolly
    -Protect
    -Substitute
    -Spore
    -Night Shade/Night Slash/Filler
    Basically Stallrein 2.0 Also I know I'm no expert on the games and I have no way to check this, but shouldn't there be some way to hack Giratina-O into the
    game without its orb, so therefore a way to use it like that in this metagame?
  15. Level 51

    Level 51 [17:37:18] boTTT: (Private to @Level 51) ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ
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    Just wondering, why Weavile? It's so... frail.
  16. ForeverPerfectXI

    ForeverPerfectXI

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    My thought too. Why not Kyurem B?
  17. Kyoril

    Kyoril

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    I just started after reading the Smog article, and this has been great fun so far.
    Quick question though; My Contrary Reshiram dies to almost any hit it takes. Any tips on keeping him alive (or a good replacement)? This is the set I'm running.

    Reshiram @ Leftovers
    Contrary
    Modest
    252 all EV's
    -Draco Meteor
    -Overheat
    -Sleep Talk
    -Rest

    Sleep talk is for when I get spored, and Rest was for recovery and status removal, but it doesn't really help against its common OHKO's. Draco Meteor and Overheat are for STAB. Modest was for extra power, and leftovers were just slapped on at the end for extra recovery.
  18. verbatim

    verbatim This will be the day
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    Resttalk is not effective in BH. With all the high powered set up pokemon running around you absolutely cannot afford to risk wasting a turn picking rest. If you absolutely want to keep using Reshiram (Soul Dew Lati@s are better, but would still have the aforementioned sleep issues if you want to use Contrary) I would change Leftovers to Lum, Modest to Timid (the majority of viable Balanced Hackmons are very close in speed stats, making speed plus natures significantly more important than in other tiers), and replacing Sleep Talk and Rest with V-Create and a filler move of your choice.
  19. Varfor

    Varfor

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    You might want to try replacing Restalk with Substitute + Recover. Substitute, when in place, will allow Reshiram to survive at least one hit as well as blocking status and preventing Imposter Blissey from revenge killing Reshiram. You could also replace overheat with V-Create, as it will boost your defenses and speed, while still hitting very hard (While you will not be able to boost it, V-Create will be super effective against almost anything that resists Draco Meteor). You should also consider using a Naive nature, as it is necessary to speed tie with other max speed base 90s and to outspeed base 90s with a neutral nature. While you would lose a small amount of special defense, it would also enable you to often boost your defenses with V-Create before they attack.

    Alternately, if you want more speed and more power for Draco Meteor at the cost of less defense and no STAB on V-Create/Overheat, you could instead use Latios with the same moveset and nature, but Soul Dew instead of Leftovers. Latios would allow you to outspeed most other pokemon and hit even harder than Reshiram with Soul Dew boosted Draco Meteors. Unfortunately, V-Create will only do a decent amount of damage against pokemon weak to it, so you would find it harder to boost Latios' defenses and speed.
  20. Kyoril

    Kyoril

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    I was mostly worried about Reshiram's frailty, so are either of the Lati's any bulkier?

    If not, would something like this work?

    Reshiram @ Lum Berry
    Contrary
    Timid
    -Draco Meteor
    -V-Create
    -Substitute
    -Recover

    I decided on Timid because it doesn't sacrifice any bulk while still boosting speed. Draco Meteor and V-Create are there for STAB, sub for status and Blissey. Recover is for recovery. Lum berry seems kind of redundant, but it'd allow me to set up a sub on a spore, so I think I'll keep it.
  21. DryBoo

    DryBoo

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    Weavile is the fastest ice typeb in the game and, unlike Kyruem outspeeds almost all commonly used pokemon in the tier. That and Dark typing comes in handy when dealing with everything that for some reason runs Stored power as their only attacking move.
  22. Varfor

    Varfor

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    Both Latios and Latias have more special bulk then Reshiram, however they have less Physical bulk. The lack of physical bulk can be a problem because of Slaking and Regigigas, who do 62.91 - 74.45% to Latios with a Guts Boosted Extremespeed (58.51 - 69.23% to Latias), while Reshiram only takes 49.25 - 58.16%. Reshiram's other problem is its weakness to Stealth Rock, which makes it only slightly more physically bulky than Latias if you take into account the extra 12.5% damage it takes upon switching in.

    If you want more bulk, I would suggest Latias, as she has more defense than Latios, while still having more special attack than Reshiram and much more special defense. Unfortunately, you would be unable to hold a Lum berry, as not using Soul Dew would negate the usefulness of Latias over Reshiram, and you would have a much harder time against Prankster Spore Pokemon.
  23. Kyoril

    Kyoril

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    So somehing along the lines of;

    Latias @ Soul Dew
    Naive
    Contrary
    -Draco Meteor
    -V-Create
    -Substitute
    -Recover

    I can still block status with sub, but Prankster Spore is problematic. Naive so as not to take power from V-Create, which will hopefully boost my lesser Special Defense.
  24. Varfor

    Varfor

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    That looks fine. If you want to be able to deal with Prankster Spore users, you could always try using Magic Coat instead of Recover. It would allow you to put their spore user to sleep and would give you time to get substitute set up. The downside would be that you would have no recovery whatsoever, however it would probably not be expected by your opponent, and if you predict correctly it could be quite helpful (but potentially disastrous if you predict incorrectly).
  25. verbatim

    verbatim This will be the day
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    W/ regards to Lati@s, I personally use,

    Latios @ Soul Dew
    Timid
    Magic Bounce
    -Quiver Dance
    -Spacial Rend
    -Stored Power
    -Aura Sphere

    While this set requires slightly more set up than Contrary to use (it's worth noting that Soul Dew Latios can already hit incredibly hard off the bat if need be), it does alleviate status concerns as well as offering access to both of Latios's STABs. While it is relatively minor, one should not forget that Aura Sphere backed by Soul Dew allows Latios to take care of Moody pokemon in the event that your Blissey is out of commision/being saved for latter.

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