Metagame Gen V Balanced Hackmons

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by verbatim, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. Kyoril

    Kyoril

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    I think I'll give both a try. Thanks a bunch.
  2. ForeverPerfectXI

    ForeverPerfectXI

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    So I've faced this in Pure Hackmons repeatedly, and it should work in Balance Hackmons as well, but you'll have to watch out for Imposter Blissey who is more common in BH. It's not my set but I'm pretty sure this is it exactly.

    Deoxys-S @ Lum Berry/Leftovers
    Ability: Prankster
    Nature: Timid
    - Minimize
    - Tail Glow
    - Spore/Gastro Acid
    - Stored Power

    Now obviously this needs some team support. Imposter Blissey, every dark Pokemon, some Unaware users, and potentially taunt can all ruin this. The potential to absolutely destroy opposing teams though is incredible. Gastro Acid is for pure hackmons to break wonder guard and Lum Berry is to eat one spore if you just so happen to somehow get put to sleep.

    Some perks to this exact set:
    - Deoxy-S resists Aura Sphere, the only really common no-miss move.
    - Deoxy-S is the fastest pokemon in the game which means he can beat Heart Swap Groudon 1v1 and isn't threatened by other Prankster users.
    - It OHKOs Lugia after rocks and has a 25% chance to KO without them.
  3. verbatim

    verbatim Surprise when they find out that a warrior'l soon run wild
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    If you need to preface a set with "you need to take care of Imposter Blissey first", then you have a serious disadvantage. In addition, this set is not going to be "taking care of Prankster Groudon", you go to Spore, using up his Lum Berry, after which he uses Heart Swap, a move with perfect accuracy (i.e. Minimize will not stop it).

    In the set up department, there are much better choices that do not need nearly as much time to prepare (Contrary) and have desirable coverage (anything with 2+ attacking moves).
  4. Wobble

    Wobble

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    Do you do anything other than tell everyone else their sets are garbage? Every single post....
  5. verbatim

    verbatim Surprise when they find out that a warrior'l soon run wild
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    Constructive Criticism and insults are worlds apart. If you have an issue with someone then you are free to contact a moderator about it, but please do not derail this thread.
  6. bwburke94

    bwburke94

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    Kyurem-W @ Life Orb / Expert Belt / Wise Glasses
    Ability: No Guard
    Nature: Modest / Timid
    - Draco Meteor / Spacial Rend
    - Blizzard
    - Magma Storm / Blue Flare / Inferno
    - Zap Cannon / Thunder / Focus Blast

    I listed Spacial Rend as an option because of Draco Meteor's stat drops. Thunder and Focus Blast are situational upgrades over Zap Cannon.

    I know Wise Glasses are unconventional but it's an alternative to Expert Belt that I'm listing just in case.
  7. ShravanP

    ShravanP

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    Here are a couple of sets I've been running on a Sun team that have worked well for me so far:

    Heatran @ Lum Berry
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Drought
    Magic Coat
    Blue Flare
    Volt Switch
    Spacial Rend / Stealth Rock / Filler

    Works as a surprisingly good anti-lead. Blue flare in the sun hits like a truck, handily 2hko-ing all D-s variants, Kyurem-B, and a few others. Magic coat is extremely useful, and i almost always lead with it. Volt Switch for perish trappers, and the last move is filler. Spacial rend to catch dragons on the switch, or anything else flies, really. I rarely find myself using this last moveslot. Maybe some suggestions there would help. This guy's role is simply to set up the sun and hang around to sponge draco meteors that barely scratch him.


    Reshiram @ Lum Berry
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Flower Gift (+50% Atk & Sdef in sun)
    Shift Gear
    V-Create
    Outrage / Dragon Claw
    Dragon Claw / Sacred Fire / Substitute

    Sun-boosted Flower Gift V-Create is monstrously powerful. Enough said. The last two are toss ups. You can either go with Outrage for sheer power or Dragon Claw for versatility. Last slot is up to either Sacred Fire or Dragon Claw, whichever you feel like sweeping with. You could also run Sub. The other great thing about flower gift is that it gives Reshiram a fair deal of extra special bulk, allowing him to turn some 2hkos to 3hkos and so forth.


    This last one is more of a concept than a final package. Simple + Growth in the sun. In one turn, you're sitting at x3 atk and x3 satk. If you can successfully pull off a boost with something like Deoxys-A, you're going to be causing a lot of hurt.

    Overall, I think Sun is an excellent option for this metagame that should be explored more in depth.
  8. verbatim

    verbatim Surprise when they find out that a warrior'l soon run wild
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    If you switch into Reshiram to take the Draco Meteor, he's not going to continue to spam it, he's going to switch to V-Create. Luckily Heatran can actually survive this combination (you'll be taking 76.93% max from the two), so that means the best use of the last slot would revolve around what to do after you survive the V-Create. If you want to be able to kill him back (you need to, or else he'll just start boosting up again), you're have to dedicate two moves to the cause, as the only real way Heatran can score said kill is with Heart Swap plus a super effective move with a base power of 84 or higher. Personally, to accommodate this choice, I'd drop Blue Flare (you don't need to kill Deoxys-S if you have Magic Coat) but Shadow Tag spam teams are sufficiently rare enough that you could drop Volt Switch.
  9. papita

    papita

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    Exactly why should i use this when there are other physical fires and dragons and honestly purely physical Reshiram seems like such a waste
  10. VaporeonIce

    VaporeonIce

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    All other physical Fire-types are either more frail than Reshiram (Darmanitan), weaker (...Arcanine? IDK what else you were thinking of), or they're Ho-Oh. Ho-Oh can run the same set, but it lacks the secondary Dragon STAB and has a significantly greater weakness to Stealth Rock. It's possible the set could benefit from using special attacks as well, but when you have an ability that boosts your attack by 50%, your special attack is your weaker stat. This is especially true when your STAB move has 180 BP.

    That said, in any metagame, how a Pokemon responds to top threats in that metagame is a big part of determining how viable it is. By that criterion, I'd think this Reshiram would struggle. With V-Create lowering its Defense, it will get hit hard by ExtremeSpeed from Slaking and other powerhouses. Blissey turns your own strategy against you unless you have Sub, but good luck finding a time to set up a Sub in Balanced Hackmons; this is a tier where Pokemon can boost their special attack WHILE smacking you with Draco Meteor. Shedinja makes this set cry. Prankster Groudon is your worst nightmare, since its priority Nature Power (Earthquake) can slaughter you, especially if you've used V-Create; in that sense, Ho-Oh actually has an advantage over Reshiram.

    That said, I do think this could work; V-Create's damage output is insane (at +1, it 2HKOs neutral-natured Reshiram without Stealth Rock...), and team support can do a long way against other threats. But requiring a turn of set-up to patch up its speed seems like a huge problem; Tailwind support may be able to help, and it would give you an easy out against Blissey. That said, Blissey won't be OHKO'd by Outrage unless you're at +1.
  11. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
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    I finally got good at BH again! And although I'm STILL running Sand, I've been running a few interesting choices this time around, so I thought I might as well share them. Yes, I'm aware that this means sharing a good portion of my team, but I don't really care. No Unaware Tyranitar this time around, though...
    Arceus-Grass (open)
    Arceus @ Meadow Plate
    Trait: Multitype
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Ice Beam
    - Substitute
    I really wanted to try Multitype Arceus out in Balanced Hackmons since there are several types (Grass, Bug, Fighting, etc) that are rarely seen in the tier. I settled on Grass because I love Grass-types and went with a simple Quiver Dance set. The only Fire-types common in BH are neutral to Ice and Steels not named Dialga are almost nonexistant, so Grass+Ice works coverage wise. Since this has no recovery, I chose Giga Drain over Judgement/Seed Flare, and it has some nice power. My only qualm is that Ice Beam doesn't OHKO Giratina at +2...

    Regirock (open)
    Regirock @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Recover
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat
    - U-turn
    Yeah, it's kind of standard, but meh. With U-Turn, Regirock can escape Perish Trappers, who otherwise destroy it.

    Kyurem-B (open)
    Kyurem-Black @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Outrage
    - Icicle Crash
    - U-turn
    - Close Combat
    Also rather standard. This set is fun as hell to use, and U-Turn is just wonderful. Dragon+Fighting gets perfect coverage on everything but Wonder Guard Shedinja (illegal in BH!) and Icicle Crash is for STAB without a bad side effect.

    Shuckle (open)
    Shuckle @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Unaware
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
    Careful Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 SAtk / 0 Spd
    - Foul Play
    - Leech Seed
    - Stealth Rock
    - Recover
    Shit, this thing is bulky. It has problems taking Draco Meteors but that's where the problems end, as practically nothing actually runs Rock moves in BH and Leech Seed helps alleviate SR damage. Foul Play does ridiculous amounts of damage to the many physically-oriented Pokemon in the tier, particularly Dragon Tail Giratina - one of the Pokemon that can't be hit by Super Fang, which might seem better.

    Also,
    I use this strategy on all of my teams.
  12. Level 51

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    So even Wonder Guard Shedinja is illegal in BH? Damn.
  13. The Reptile

    The Reptile Greninja Confirm for Smash
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    Yes it is, however, Sturdy Shedinja is pretty much exactly the same as Wonder Guard Shedinja except better in every way. In fact, it's kind of (or at least was back when I played) a top-tier pokemon.
  14. Level 51

    Level 51 TUVTUy9XSVRIL1RIRS9CRVNUL0RJRS9MSUtFL1RIRS9SRVNU
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    Conversion Shedinja = :O
  15. Chaoswalker

    Chaoswalker

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    I've been using a speedboost Metagross with swords dance, protect, Ironhead, and Zenheadbutt. Apparently it can take un-boosted v-create, so I think it's a keeper.

    Stopped by Prankster spore... like most things.
  16. Le Quack

    Le Quack

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    because dont have a question thread, i gonna ask it here
    CAPmons and CAPabilities can be used normally in the tier?
  17. Arcticblast

    Arcticblast improsin + bapongbas gg,,,,,,
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    Anything exclusive to the CAP metagame is not allowed in Balanced Hackmons. This includes all of the CAP Pokemon, their special moves (I think Shadowstrike is the only one) and their special abilities (Mountaineer, Persistent, and Rebound).
  18. Zarco

    Zarco

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    This tier is really cool... Any tips for a newbie in getting past threats like Giratina, Blissey, Deoxys s, etc?

    And personally I see drizzle as a really powerful force, given that I haven't seen a ton of weather and you can abuse the force that is Swift Swim Palkia.
  19. Varfor

    Varfor

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    While Swift Swim Palkia may seem to be a huge threat due to its blistering speed and great STAB Water Spout/Hydro Pump, it is countered fairly easily by Prankster Spore, Sturdy Shedinja and Imposter Blissey; all of whom are quite common in the tier. The speed boost from Swift Swim is not as significant as you might think due to how common priority is in BH (which is also why Speed Boost is fairly rare), and Swift Swim is less useful than abilities such as Magic Bounce and Contrary.

    To get past Giratina, you really just need strong super-effective moves. Due to the prominence of Prankster + Copycat + Whirlwind, Magic Bounce is also recommended to deal with such variants, as well as variants that use spore. (Verbatim posted a Latias set earlier in the thread which would work quite well, though Latios takes a lot of damage from Dragon Tail.)
    Latios (open)

    To deal with Imposter Blissey, you just need to make sure that all of your sweepers can be countered by another pokemon on your team. Sturdy Shedinja is an easy way of doing this, as it walls any sweeper without Mold Breaker or a status move. Shedinja also has nothing to fear from Blissey, as Blissey does not copy Shedinja's unique HP stat.

    Giving your lead Magic Coat will help in dealing with Deoxys-S, as it will prevent it from setting up hazards or putting your lead to sleep (Magic Bounce also works, but it is negated by variants that have Mold Breaker).

    If you have not already, I recommend reading the Introduction to "Balanced" Hackmons article in the Smog. It gives some information on the tier's threats, as well as how to counter them.
  20. Zarco

    Zarco

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    I've looked at it, maybe I'm just bad at teambuilding in here... anyway, thanks!
  21. V4Victini

    V4Victini [22:30] <~Nexus> (≖ᴗ≖✿)
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    No it isnt. Anythng that gets Wonder Guard naturally can use the ability. Thing is no Pokemon but Shedinja are in that category and he like Sturdy better anyway.
  22. rayquazamaster776

    rayquazamaster776

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    I've been using this team with very mixed success; thoughts?

    Show Hide
    Deoxys-Speed @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Spore
    - Stealth Rock
    - Magic Coat
    - Rapid Spin

    Blissey (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Imposter
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Spikes
    - Final Gambit
    - Toxic Spikes

    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - V-create
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psycho Boost

    Slaking @ Flame Orb
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Facade
    - ExtremeSpeed
    - Earthquake
    - Crunch

    Giratina @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Calm Nature
    - Copycat
    - Whirlwind
    - Recover
    - Toxic (for Shedinja if SR isn't up)

    Reshiram @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Contrary
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spd
    Hasty Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Overheat
    - V-create
    - Leaf Storm

  23. verbatim

    verbatim Surprise when they find out that a warrior'l soon run wild
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    The core of your team is almost identical to mine (Soul Dew Latios, Deo-S, Copyphaze Giratina, Blissey) and I've been doing fairly well. The two biggest threats to this team core, namely, Prankster Groundon and Imposter Blissey. You can cover opposing Blissey by changing up your Latios set and running Escavelier in the space where your Reshiram currently is,

    Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Quiver Dance
    - Spacial Rend
    - Stored Power
    - Aura Sphere


    Escavalier (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 SDef / 0 Spe
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Copycat
    - Gyro Ball
    - Destiny Bond
    - Rapid Spin

    With this combination, Latios is still capable of wrecking after one turn of set up, but once he dies to Blissey (which may not even happen, as Soul Dew Latios will win against Blissey if there both at +1 Spa / +1 SpD / + 1 Spe) you will have a sure fire counter to Blissey, as Escavelier will take miniscule damage so long as you make sure not to overboost Latios before killing Blissey. Escavlier can also make great bait for Contrary V-Create users with Prankster Destiny Bond.
  24. Level 51

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    Uhh verbatim, why does your Escavalier run 252 Speed EVs?
  25. verbatim

    verbatim Surprise when they find out that a warrior'l soon run wild
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    Mistake on my part, changed

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