Metagame Gen V PU - NU in NU

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Finally, someone says something in this thread again. I woulda said something, but tbh I have nothing to say most of the time :x

You pose an interesting question, however, so I'm sure I can find a way to build on it.

As far as Pokemon who have gotten better due to the recent rises, I'd first and foremost have to say Rotom-Frost and Vigoroth.

Rotom-F lost its best check, Camerupt, to NU at the last shift. While the fridge was already known for its great combination of speed, power, and bulk on its Scarf set, it was always much easier to deal with if you had a Camerupt. There wasn't much reason not to use Camerupt, due to it's great ability in Solid Rock, it's unique typing for its role of an SR setter, and good offensive presence. Camerupt, at one point, was probably on the majority of Bulky Offensive teams. With Camerupt leaving, Rotom-F's list of checks decreases. Not much can safely switch into it bar Munchlax (but watch out for Trick!) and other dedicated special walls without predicting around it every time it hits the field. Of course, Rotom-F also has its old problems, such as its overall inability to get past Throh most of the time and its weakness to Stealth Rock, but imo it's gotten even better since Camel left.

On Vigoroth, I always felt it had to compete with Golbat as a fast, bulky Taunter with good offensive presence. Golbat and Vigoroth share many common qualities: their good support movepools, good defenses, great speed for walls, and the ability to hit what they were walling hard made both of them very capable team supporters. But, from what I've gathered, most people tended to use Golbat over the sloth due to it's immunities to Ground- and Poison-, as well as its great resistances to Bug-, Fighting-, and Grass-. Access to U-turn also allowed it to keep momentum, something Vigoroth could not do. But now, Vigoroth faces much less (if any) competition in its role as a very fast, offensively capable Taunter who can take plenty of hits. It's ability in Vital Spirit grants a lot of utility against Vileplume, Jumpluff, and the like, Slack Off allows it to stay healthy throughout the entire match, allowing it to support its team, and access to Bulk Up and good physical bulk makes late game sweeping a much possibility with a set of Bulk Up / Taunt / Slack Off / Body Slam [or] Return. Overall, I really do think Vigoroth, while he as still a fantastic Pokemon in the previous stage, had gotten the best of the rises in this stage.
 

WhiteDMist

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Really, I will have to try out Vigoroth myself. As for Rotom-F, I agree that is does work a lot better without Camerupt around. But do you feel that Zebstrika rivals it as a revenge killer? Rotom-F has Trick and Ice STAB, but Zebstrika does has and immunity to Electric moves and Overheat. Scarf sets can afford to run Modest as it is faster than any other Scarfer in the tier (correct me if I'm wrong, though I don't think I am), while it can even use a LO set while still being faster than any unboosted mon. Or does Rotom-F's BoltBeam coverage and access to an abundance of support and disruptive moves overwhelm the competition?
 
I think Zebstrika definitely gives Fridge competition as a revenge-killer, for multiple reasons.

For one, you are correct that Zebstrika can run Modest on the Scarf set and still outspeed all other relevant Scarf users, which is invaluable, since the extra power is very much needed on it, even if its just revenge killing. One problem I see with Zebstrika is that most of its coverage moves leave it in a very sticky situation once it revenge kills. The standard set that I have seen on Scarf Zeb, that being Thunderbolt / Volt Switch / Overheat / Hidden Power [Grass] [or] Hidden Power [Ice], makes you very weak to common setup sweepers once you use a coverage move. For instance, Overheat allows Zebstrika to nuke Grass-Types and Steel-Types, but it leaves it at -2 Special Attack, which means that Fraxure, Arrbok, and Golduck come in for free if they don't see LO recoil (and in the former two's case, even if you are LO) and set up all over your face. Hidden Power [Ice] has good coverage with TBolt, but it's fairly weak without a boost, and Golduck still sets up on you. While this shouldn't be an issue for a revenge killer, Zebstrika just doesn't have a ton of power behind it, even with Tbolt, to threaten something that it hits neutrally when it switches in after the kill. With such a setup-heavy metagame, I find Rotom-F to be a much better Scarf user due to its access to Trick, much higher attacking stats, better bulk to eat up priority, and STAB on Hidden Power [Ice] or Blizzard. Rotom-F still hits hard on neutral opponents and setup sweepers due to its great STABs coming off of an strong Special Attack stat, so I see it as much more valuable, regardless of being slower than Zebstrika.

Zebstrika's Life Orb set, however, is very potent in the current PU metagame due to its ridiculous Speed, which allows it to outspeed all non-boosted threats in the meta. For reference, it outspeeds and beats up on Golduck, Beheeyem, Fraxure (with Hidden Power Ice), Torterra (with Overheat or Hidden Power Ice), Articuno, offensive Vileplume, and Swanna, all the while being able to keep momentum with Volt Switch. This is Zebstrika's niche, imo, as it has the amount of power a boosting item provides that Zeb loves, and it's alright coverage allows it to smoke a lot of the tier. This, in conjunction with its speed tier, allows it to be a formidable late-game cleaner.

This isn't to say that Rotom-F is outclassed as a LO user, however. Rotom-F's SubSplit set is better than ever, especially since most people expect the Scarf set. STAB BoltBeam coverage is ludicrous in PU, hitting most things bar Marshtomp/ Whiscash for neutral damage (this is exactly why I run Volt Switch / Blizzard / Hidden Power Grass / Trick [or] Thunderbolt on my Scarf Fridge). It's access to annoying moves such as Thunder Wave, Will-O-Wisp, Trick, and Confuse Ray allow it to support its team on the LO set, making it that much more of a factor. There aren't many better feelings in the world than burning a physical attacker attempting to come in on Rotom-F (I'm looking at you, Stoutland), only to get burned by Will-O-Wisp. In fact, I've been using this set a lot to good effect:

Rotom-Frost @ Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 SpDef
Modest Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp
- Blizzard
- Hidden Power Grass

So I don't really think Zeb's LO set outclasses Rotom-F's, per se, but I think the LO set is definitely Zebstrika's best and most effective one, at the moment.
 
Hi guys! I've started playing PU Tier today, and I've been having great success.

My secret? CURSE LAPRAS.

I've been incredibly successful with her. So few people use Lapras, and even fewer use Curse on her. Curse is pretty tough to use in other metagames, but it's been working here.

THE MIGHTY LORELEI
Leftovers
252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 SpD (Adamant Nature)
-Curse
-Aqua Tail
-Avalanche
-Drill Run/Aqua Jet

Avalanche effectively becomes a base 120 STAB move since you most often attack last. Aqua Tail is a solid STAB move and the main move of the set. Drill Run is there for neutral coverage against opposing waters. Aqua Jet is also an option.

For support, I like to set up screens with Meowstic-M. That makes Lapras bulky to start with, so she can more easily use Curse. I also have a Wish-Heal Bell Wigglytuff as a cleric.

You'd be surprised by a) how bulky Lapras is and can be after a Curse or two, and b) how strong Lapras is after a Curse or two.
 
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