Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

[Pikachu315111]

So we've got to figure that this Z version, if it goes like third versions past, has to have both Xerneas and Yveltal capturable in some way. I'm still wondering if the newly expanded plot is going to in some way involve the two fighting and Zygarde has to calm them down, a la Emerald. And then what happens with the Ultimate Weapon (since each game's cover legend powered it)?

And how do we know that? If they pull a B2W2 then they'll still be version exclusive.

Also if they do a traditional third version remake they'll probably just have Yveltal power the genocide part and Xerneas power the immortal giving part. Sure they can use one of them to power both parts, but why use one battery and spread it between two functions (with it probably powering-up one of those functions) when you can use two batteries both who probably power-up their respective functions.

Don't know where Zygarde would come into it. Maybe this time it did wake up when Flare captured the Legendaries, went to stop them, got blown up into bits, and now the player has to help it regather its pieces as there's no way the player would be able to take on both Xerneas and Yveltal. They can replace getting a Kanto Starter with getting Zygarde Core (and instead the Mega Stone you get is for the Kalos Starters).

If we go by the fact additions increase each gen, additions are expanded on, we may be looking at new Pokemon since there was so few last game, and even a new region plus Kalos given all the hints. At the least new megas are a certainty.

New Megas and alternate forms, yes. New Pokemon, no. If the started releasing completely new Pokemon then what's the point of generations? Why go to a new region when we can go to old regions and have new Pokemon appear there. By keeping the same amount of new Pokemon the same it keeps the generation feel contained and people looking forward to the next generation as we know that's when we'll get new Pokemon. However to keep things interesting the Pokemon we do have in that generation get alternate forms and now Mega Evolutions. They're still the same Pokemon but provide new ways to play with that Pokemon effectively making them a new Pokemon in proxy.

And we didn't have that many new Pokemon this gen is because with over 700 Pokemon now it may be a good idea to start slowing down a bit. Also Mega Evolutions probably were looked upon as a substitute.

 

[Master X]

Well this was the most anti-climactic release of Corocoro ever... Bacon Bird and greyscale Xerneas... Wooo?

@ The above few posts, borderline making shit up there Master X. We have no idea where GF is going to go with Z. IMO it'll be more like Emerald mixed with Crystal with the addition of the "other" Legendary to the story.

Either way, not a lot to discuss here so I'll probably lock this up at the weekend again until next month.

Making shit up and theorising are not the same thing. I'm not saying its true (theorising) basing it on GF slowly expanding what third versions allow. Expanded story. Check. Direct sequel story. Check. Expanded areas. Check. Totally new areas (like a third of a map). Check. New alt Pokemon forms. Check. New mass amounts of mega designs. Check. And each gen goes that step further. New mon and more new areas is the next logical step after the above expansions. Is it going to happen? Not saying it will just that IT COULD. Do you realy expect so little of GF that you believe it's essentially impossible to happen? Personally I don't expect much of anything, wouldn't surprise me if Zygarde alts and some Z Episode post-game were the sole additions (no way on Earth I'd buy it if that was all, though). BUT it's not THAT far out there to expect the Third version pattern of continual "more, bigger, better" to continue in obvious ways. We shall see.

As for new Mon (assuming true, again I reiterate I DON'T BELIEVE ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, simply discussing what ifs) and "what would be the point of new gens." Well...what if more new mon had been planned since XY? Given the lower than usual amount we got (not including megas). And they'd simply been saved, and this was now how they work their gens from now on? 70% new mon in first game, other 30% in third version (or some such thing). Why? Sales. It essentially gives a massive sales boost at a part of each gen when sales are sagging before next gen. All devs love more money for less effort.

 

[Codraroll]

Given the lower than usual amount we got (not including megas).

That's the thing, though. Each new generation has traditionally brought ~100 new Pokémon as well as a small handful of Formes, making the total number of new designs somewhere around 110-140. Gen VI has only 71 new Pokémon, but a whooping 51 new formes so far (48 Megas, plus alternate formes for Groudon, Kyogre and Hoopa). The number of entirely new designs is thus approximately the same as it was in previous generations.

And also, while ORAS showed that inter-generational compatibility isn't top priority any more, I really doubt they'd screw it over even more by making certain Pokémon completely incompatible with games of the same generation. I mean, locking out Megas and alternate formes is one thing (that's been around to some extent since Gen III), but making entire species of Pokémon exclusive to one game? Hardly. I already think they went too far by making new moves in ORAS that were incompatible with XY. I can't see them do the same with Pokémon species.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Yeah, I doubt they'll take it that far ever as to make a new Pokemon. As Codraroll pointed out, locking alternate forms has been around since Gen III and the Deoxys forms before establishing the current kind of trend with Gen IV and the Griesious Orb. Gen VI changed the formula with the exclusive moves but in all honesty is that really TOO much different than new forms? I mean the four exclusive moves were on Pokemon which had exclusive forms. And it's not like you couldn't delete the move to get it on the old games (just like you could have removed items in order to trade them). Putting new Pokemon in and refusing to allow trade would remove the point in having generations and would remove the point in Gamefreak making new regions and everything if they can just show that they aren't afraid to do that. At that point, Gamefreak stops making money because they already know that new generations in new regions sell the most money compared to these extra games in the same generation.

 

[JES]

I think a start is, what new did we get with Yellow? More story and more access to starters. Z will at least include more story and more starters (option to get all three, and extra Kalos starter megas).

What did Crystal add other than Yellow type stuff? Access to special event mon with story. Z will at least grant access to Volcanion, likely give another chance at Hoopa/Diancie...with mini stories to go with them.

Only Yellow gave the option of obtaining all three starters. And with Wonder Trade and the GTS, acquiring the other starters would be easy enough. Don't count on having access to Volcanion, Hoopa, and Diancie either, since the only mythical Pokémon they've given us access to is Deoxys, and that was only just for the last games.

Emerald other than previous added stuff? Bigger story, access to all three main legends and post game BF. Z's story will incorporate all three main legendaries with ability to capture Xerneas/Yveltal/Zygarde, all three will likely have alt versions, not just Zygarde. There will likely be post-game BF. Especially with ORAS hints.

This is a given. Ever since Crystal, the other legendaries have always been catchable in the third versions, except for maybe BW2 (I've never played either of them, so I wouldn't know)? The Battle Frontier is a strong possibility.

Platinum other than previous added stuff? Alt forms, new areas based on known stuff, more story. For Z we'll get expanded versions of already used areas, Terminus cave clearly being one, Geohenge (sp?) likely another. There's even a town where a path starts heading down but cuts off...to nothing, as if there should be an exit. LOTS of expanded areas.

Possibly.

BW2 other than previous added stuff? Direct sequel story-wise, completely new areas. There will 100% be totally new areas in Z. And I'd say guaranteed to be a direct sequel, or at least the story continues/expands past where XY left off.

I agree that there will be totally new areas, if BW2 is any indication. No guarantee if it will be a sequel, or another alternate timeline scenario however.

And that's based on minimum additions. If we go by the fact additions increase each gen, additions are expanded on, we may be looking at new Pokemon since there was so few last game, and even a new region plus Kalos given all the hints. At the least new megas are a certainty. Count in the fact they're taking longer to make it than usual. Signs point to this game having lots of new content, and essentially being gen 6.5. Unless GF just decide to say screw it and be lazy (it's possible!)

I wouldn't take the chance of betting against there being new Pokémon, but I suspect that the only reason that there were only a little over 60 new Pokémon this generation is because Game Freak made the (right IMO) that each new Pokémon should have some reason for being, other than just being there... I'd have to say that new Megas are a given, and I'd have to agree that the reason they are taking so long is indeed to make the next game(s) probably the best of the series so far.

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

Oh I remember like it was yesterday, people were 100% sure there would be no new Megas in ORAS or that they would never add new moves in the middle of a generation, but here we are. I mean yeah, it probably won't happen, but to think them adding new Pokemon in the middle of a generation is impossible will only get egg on your face. Gamefreak has been really unpredictable here lately, so who knows what happen...

 

[Karxrida]

There is no precedent for new mons mid-Gen, only new forms (which the Megas fall under). The new moves and abilities came out of left field, but that doesn't mean we can justify wishlisting for new mons just because GF threw one curveball.

I'd rather have egg on my face for being wrong about this instead of being disappointed for not having heightened and nearly baseless expectations delivered on.

 

[Master X]

There is no precedent for new mons mid-Gen, only new forms (which the Megas fall under). The new moves and abilities came out of left field, but that doesn't mean we can justify wishlisting for new mons just because GF threw one curveball.

I'd rather have egg on my face for being wrong about this instead of being disappointed for not having heightened and nearly baseless expectations delivered on.

There was no precident for alt legend forms until they happened. For expanded areas until it happened For totally new areas until it happened. I trust GF to keep expanding/growing third versions each gen "some way" even if it's not new Mons.

As for disappointment; I'm always disappointed even when I expect nothing. The lack of any challenge in ORAS bored me to tears. There may as well not even have been trainers/gym leaders. I couldn't believe how easy it was. The difficulty has been pathetic for a while now, but this was some serious new low.

As for megas being the reason for less Mon. It's likely. I just find them totally meh, though. And utterly pointless in the main game. One of the reasons being the above; when the game's THIS easy, is there really any need for more powerful versions...?

On the above. I'm not a kid/novice/starting player. I'm not a "needs game short and easy to get to the meta game ASAP because I'm an elite battler and only care about PvP battles" player. I'm a guy that wants a long, challenging single player, a guy who's played since the beginning, who gets put off more and more each gen as it gets easier and easier (and no, it's just because I know what I'm doing...that's just partly the reason). GF need to realise their majority of fans are those who've followed for many gens, and need to start making the game at least with these players partly in mind rather than just the former two. It's becoming mentally painful it being so easy.

 

[Pikachu315111]

On the above. I'm not a kid/novice/starting player. I'm not a "needs game short and easy to get to the meta game ASAP because I'm an elite battler and only care about PvP battles" player. I'm a guy that wants a long, challenging single player, a guy who's played since the beginning, who gets put off more and more each gen as it gets easier and easier (and no, it's just because I know what I'm doing...that's just partly the reason). GF need to realise their majority of fans are those who've followed for many gens, and need to start making the game at least with these players partly in mind rather than just the former two. It's becoming mentally painful it being so easy.

While it would be nice for them to add a difficult setting for older fan (something they sort of did in BW2 though messed it up by having it version exclusive and unlocked after completing the game (also I felt it didn't go far enough either)), I think GF is more focused on making the games accessible than targeting a specific audience. They want anyone who never played a Pokemon game be able to pick it up and play through.

Now they do have the Battle Facilities which are meant to really test the player. However those can only hold your interest for so long and for the first pair games its usually one facility while in the third version really adds to it (except in BW which decided to do the World Tournament instead).

So honestly difficulty setting and putting more thought in the extra Battle Facility (or providing other places a trainer can test their might) is I think key to appease that challenge older players want. At least for single player, you can always try connecting online to battle other players.

 

[Codraroll]

Oh I remember like it was yesterday, people were 100% sure there would be no new Megas in ORAS

Care to dig up a quote about this? I followed the discussion very closely (it's kind of my job on here), and I can't recall anybody ever stating with certainty that there would be no more Megas. I remember that we wondered why only Lati@s were coded into XY, but the consensus all along was that we'd get more Megas.

...new moves, though, kinda came out of left field...

 

[Pikachu315111]

Though let's remember something about the new Moves and Abilities: There was only 3 and all were Signature Moves/Abilities. Unless you were using Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza you'll not even notice. If anything you more notice the missing ORAS Mega Evolutions but that's simply because there's more of them and for many of the Pokemon who got Mega Evolution they'll probably only ever see use as a Mega. However Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza were already usable in their own right (if not for moves and stats than for their Abilities). Groudon, Kyogre, and Rayquaza pretty much got what was owed to them and that's all; a stronger version of their Ability to go with their power-up transformations and signature moves which nowadays most Legendary Pokemon that aren't part of a "BST 580 trio" have.

 

[The Manifold Curiosity]

Am I the only one who finds the lack of CoroCoro information totally bizarre and slightly concerning? They have been teasing us with Zygarde Cell for months before finally releasing its true identity last month. This created a lot of hype (which was already building over those long months) in the Pokemon community who were expecting Pokemon Z to finally to be announced... but this months CoroCoro release has totally killed the momentum and IMO was a massive error on Nintendo/Gamefreak's part. If they drag out the release date much longer then people will start to forget about Zygarde and Ash-Ninja which commercially seems like a stupid move. In my eyes they have got to announce this game this month or at least reveal new and important game hinting information in the next CoroCoro issue otherwise they will be back to square one with regards to peoples interest. Hype is essential for getting games sold, especially when this is the third version from gen 6 and you can already complete the pokedex, so they have got to keep the fan-base engaged so that causal fans get interested as well and buy the next game.

Because of this CoroCoro release I'm now beginning to doubt if Pokemon Z actually exists or whether they are keeping the new forms etc for the amine only and in game they will appear later on in gen 7. Its still way too early for my personal doubt to be treated seriously, I'm still 95 % confident Pokemon Z will appear in 2016. But if they stall things for another month or two with next to no information then I and I suspect many others will be honestly questioning whether Pokemon Z exists. Meanwhile the causal fan-base will give up waiting for Z and stop paying attention. What on earth are Gamefreak thinking?

 

[Kurona]

Hey guys, guys
Here's an idea
Since one of OI's rules is to not talk about baseless speculation and thinking new Pokémon might be in the game falls under that, maybe we could talk about something else?

 

[Phione]

There's nothing really left to discuss seeing as CoroCoro told us absolutely nothing, might as well lock this thread.

 

[DHR-107]

Can you guys stop with the minimodding?

Next time it happens I'll warn/delete the posts. We (The mods) know whats happening in these threads, we don't need jabs/reminders in posts. I already said at the top of the page I will likely lock this again come the weekend as there was nothing to really go forward with.

 

[Yveltal]

Mega Latis were probably in XY for testing Soaring, and they probably didn't get completely written out. Or maybe they were left in XY in case they wanted to do a Lati mega stone giveaway to promote Soaring in ORAS, but decided to do the Eon Ticket thing later on.

If the former is true (which would be less likely, since the Eon Flute doesn't exist in XY's code), then it could have been an indicator to the extent of new features. Which could be taken to mean "no new methods of traveling/exploration/gameplay beyond Soaring were planned for Gen6".

Doesn't really affect the ability to have new Megas/attacks, but...hey.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Mega Latis were probably in XY for testing Soaring, and they probably didn't get completely written out. Or maybe they were left in XY in case they wanted to do a Lati mega stone giveaway to promote Soaring in ORAS, but decided to do the Eon Ticket thing later on.

If the former is true (which would be less likely, since the Eon Flute doesn't exist in XY's code), then it could have been an indicator to the extent of new features. Which could be taken to mean "no new methods of traveling/exploration/gameplay beyond Soaring were planned for Gen6".

Doesn't really affect the ability to have new Megas/attacks, but...hey.

Hmm, I don't think they had soaring planned for XY (but now talking about it I kind of hope they bring it to XY2/Z), but maybe they were planning a connecting event. Maybe they were planning on having you get one of them in XY and the other in ORAS but decided against that when they decided to give the player one of them in ORAS as their welfare Pokemon in that game. I don't see why they wouldn't do the Eon Ticket event, especially with how the idea for it would work even better now with WiFi being a thing.

Okay, I have a topic we can discuss which is on point and isn't moping about no CoroCoro News: What would you like to see get address/expanded upon that was talked about in XY? Here's a few obvious ones:

1. The Strange Souvenir. Now obviously I'm not expecting much to be revealed about it since it's suppose to be based on a Pokemon from a region we've never been before, but that doesn't mean they can't include an easter egg with it. Like if we transfer it over to XY2 we can show it to someone and they'll reveal what the next region's name will be (and maybe trade the Strange Souvenir for a Big Nugget or something).

2. Hex Maniac Ghost. So are we going to find out what her deal is or is she just going to be a running gag?

3. Anistar Sundial. It's such a stand out location that's linked with Mega Evolution but at most it just provides a "power-up" to your Mega Ring. What is this thing's connection with Mega Evolution?

4. Reflection Cave's shining spot, Chamber of Emptiness, & Kalos Power Plant's locked rooms. Obviously places relating to Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion, are we going to have maybe a small event in them if we bring those Pokemon to these locations?

5. Lost Hotel. It feels like such a random location. And it's been taken over a rollerblading gang? What is this places history (I especially want to know since its anime episode was SO stupid and felt like a waste of an opportunity)?

And that's not even mentioning the story elements (mainly since we don't know whether if it's going to be a third version remake or (a) sequel game(s)).

 

[Kurona]

I'd kind of like the Lost Hotel and Ghost to stay mysteries, to be honest. I kind of prefer it when we're given little information to go by on a non-main plot related element so we can theorize and interpret; I feel just explaining them even if it was a good explanation would ruin that - especially when exploration and discovery are some of Pokémon's main themes. Lost Hotel makes a nice set piece and doesn't really need an explanation.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I'd kind of like the Lost Hotel and Ghost to stay mysteries, to be honest. I kind of prefer it when we're given little information to go by on a non-main plot related element so we can theorize and interpret; I feel just explaining them even if it was a good explanation would ruin that - especially when exploration and discovery are some of Pokémon's main themes. Lost Hotel makes a nice set piece and doesn't really need an explanation.

I'm not asking for everything to be explained, but I wouldn't mind finding things like old paper clippings about the hotel vaguely telling us a bit about its history, how it was like working in the hotel, or about the guests opinions. They don't have to go as indepth as they did with Sea Mauville, but some more info about it I don't think would hurt.

 

[Forrester]

Am I the only one who finds the lack of CoroCoro information totally bizarre and slightly concerning? They have been teasing us with Zygarde Cell for months before finally releasing its true identity last month. This created a lot of hype (which was already building over those long months) in the Pokemon community who were expecting Pokemon Z to finally to be announced... but this months CoroCoro release has totally killed the momentum and IMO was a massive error on Nintendo/Gamefreak's part. If they drag out the release date much longer then people will start to forget about Zygarde and Ash-Ninja which commercially seems like a stupid move. In my eyes they have got to announce this game this month or at least reveal new and important game hinting information in the next CoroCoro issue otherwise they will be back to square one with regards to peoples interest. Hype is essential for getting games sold, especially when this is the third version from gen 6 and you can already complete the pokedex, so they have got to keep the fan-base engaged so that causal fans get interested as well and buy the next game.

Because of this CoroCoro release I'm now beginning to doubt if Pokemon Z actually exists or whether they are keeping the new forms etc for the amine only and in game they will appear later on in gen 7. Its still way too early for my personal doubt to be treated seriously, I'm still 95 % confident Pokemon Z will appear in 2016. But if they stall things for another month or two with next to no information then I and I suspect many others will be honestly questioning whether Pokemon Z exists. Meanwhile the causal fan-base will give up waiting for Z and stop paying attention. What on earth are Gamefreak thinking?

I'm not really concerned as much as I am just frustrated. Like the way they built up the hype revealing the green blob, you would think there would be an announcement of some sort by now. Also find it really weird how they release anime info before anything relating to a new game. Don't really know what theyre waiting on to be honest. I could care less when it's released, I just want something, an announcement just to build the hype up, because if they do have a game planned for next year, which I think they do, they've done a terrible job hyping it up so far, or at least teasing it.

 

[Phione]

Can you guys stop with the minimodding?

Next time it happens I'll warn/delete the posts. We (The mods) know whats happening in these threads, we don't need jabs/reminders in posts. I already said at the top of the page I will likely lock this again come the weekend as there was nothing to really go forward with.

*facepalm*
Sorry, I didn't mean to jab the mods to lock it, that was more just a sort of expression of defeat because I really didn't know what to say or think there was anything worth saying.

 

[Every1XplodeNOW]

There is no precedent for new mons mid-Gen, only new forms (which the Megas fall under). The new moves and abilities came out of left field, but that doesn't mean we can justify wishlisting for new mons just because GF threw one curveball.

I'd rather have egg on my face for being wrong about this instead of being disappointed for not having heightened and nearly baseless expectations delivered on.

There wasn't a precedent for direct sequels either, but that happen. I'm not wishlisting, all I'm saying it's a possibility. I really don't care if they add them or not, hell, I even said they probably won't. I was merely stating a thought.

Jeez, some of y'all take these discussions way too seriously.

Care to dig up a quote about this? I followed the discussion very closely (it's kind of my job on here), and I can't recall anybody ever stating with certainty that there would be no more Megas. I remember that we wondered why only Lati@s were coded into XY, but the consensus all along was that we'd get more Megas.

...new moves, though, kinda came out of left field...

Uh I'm not about to that because I'm a lazy bastard so sorry, but I also followed it pretty closely, and I'm pretty sure there were some people suggesting there wouldn't be any new megas because the Lati@s megas were in XY and that it would cause compatibility issues(lol). If you don't believe me or if I'm wrong, that's cool, it's not like I was trying to prove anything anyway.

 

[stage7_4]

Burden of proof in these cases falls on the new information, since it's proof by observation. Non-observation doesn't disprove something, but it doesn't prove it either. It's just empty words.

Bottom line, any argument of "well anything could happen" or "it's a possibility" isn't actually an argument or an opinion. Just empty space. So let's stop with the Illuminati confirmed! here, okay?

Plus a trip through the Mystery thread's archives will tell you all about the times Gamefreak has dropped a secret, plotline, or event just because they went in another direction or failed to export. Despite being a ton of hints or even being coded into the game. Short examples are the Azure Flute, the Locked Capsule, Mega Lati@s in XY, the "God stone" of B2W2, Striaton Trio and the Shadow Triad, the weird silent church in Hearthome, the true purpose of the milk man...

 

[Master X]

Am I the only one who finds the lack of CoroCoro information totally bizarre and slightly concerning? They have been teasing us with Zygarde Cell for months before finally releasing its true identity last month. This created a lot of hype (which was already building over those long months) in the Pokemon community who were expecting Pokemon Z to finally to be announced... but this months CoroCoro release has totally killed the momentum and IMO was a massive error on Nintendo/Gamefreak's part. If they drag out the release date much longer then people will start to forget about Zygarde and Ash-Ninja which commercially seems like a stupid move. In my eyes they have got to announce this game this month or at least reveal new and important game hinting information in the next CoroCoro issue otherwise they will be back to square one with regards to peoples interest. Hype is essential for getting games sold, especially when this is the third version from gen 6 and you can already complete the pokedex, so they have got to keep the fan-base engaged so that causal fans get interested as well and buy the next game.

Because of this CoroCoro release I'm now beginning to doubt if Pokemon Z actually exists or whether they are keeping the new forms etc for the amine only and in game they will appear later on in gen 7. Its still way too early for my personal doubt to be treated seriously, I'm still 95 % confident Pokemon Z will appear in 2016. But if they stall things for another month or two with next to no information then I and I suspect many others will be honestly questioning whether Pokemon Z exists. Meanwhile the causal fan-base will give up waiting for Z and stop paying attention. What on earth are Gamefreak thinking?

I feel your frustrations. The lack of information is actually an important topic about Z (it really is because...) One, it's unprecidented. Two, they essentially revealed the main legendary/alts, which should have been a third game reveal...but for the anime instead. What does that really leave for third game reveals if it's the plain, by the numbers third version some seem to be expecting? XD Which really only leaves two options. First, there's so much new content they can afford to drop what would usually be the most important details of the third game (its mascot legend) ahead of time as an anime reveal instead of a game blowout. Two, the third version is actually small. Maybe so small they're foregoing a physical release, and the third version is essentially a DLC expansion with the third legend/sub quests. BECAUSE they wanted to move straight onto a brand new gen 7 for the 20th anniversary. Now, that last one is ikely completely bullflop I agree, but given the anniversary, it woldn't suprise if they wanted a totally new game ready for it, and working on two full main games would have been too much.

 

[Karxrida]

DLC is not happening. They said it wasn't happening. If it was happening then they would have made the ORAS Megas downloadables for X and Y.

I'm getting tried of hearing it when Game Freak has been explicit about their thoughts on the topic.