Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

[Pikachu315111]

Except not really, because Phione doesn't evolve into Manaphy. It can only be bred from Manaphy. Which raises the question of how Manaphy can even exist if it can't be bred from anything.

I think Manaphy Eggs are suppose to have been laid in warm ocean waters or something like that, Phione Eggs are a result from anywhere else.

Both Phione from Manaphy and Carbink into Diancie is due to a mutation not in control of the player. None of them are prevos.

 

[Sirya]

Except not really, because Phione doesn't evolve into Manaphy. It can only be bred from Manaphy. Which raises the question of how Manaphy can even exist if it can't be bred from anything.

EDIT: Oh, so I misread you, my bad. Well, to me, Phione has always been Manaphy's pre-evolution as it's the Pokémon who hatches from the egg when you breed it. I don't think about it like "if it can't evolve, it's not a pre-evo", but "if it can be breeded from this Pokémon, it's a pre-evo".

 

[Oddish.]

¿? Except not really what?

Phione is the only legendary pre-evolution, this is not an oppinion. I don't care about theories or innecesary reasoning, I'm talking about facts. At this time, September 17 2016, there's one, and only one legendary pre-evolution in the games or in any product the franchise has to offer, and that Pokémon is Manaphy. If you think otherwise, please give me evidence and show me who that legendary is, I want its name, dex number, everything.

I don't know what you're getting at?

I literally never said that there are other legendary pre evos. I just don't consider Phione a true one because it doesn't actually evolve into Manaphy. It's not unnecessary reasoning or a theory, it's a fact that Phione doesn't evolve into Manaphy. You can consider it a pre evo, I just don't.

 

[Sirya]

I don't know what you're getting at?

I literally never said that there are other legendary pre evos. I just don't consider Phione a true one because it doesn't actually evolve into Manaphy. It's not unnecessary reasoning or a theory, it's a fact that Phione doesn't evolve into Manaphy. You can consider it a pre evo, I just don't.

I just edited my message, I misread you, it's 4:14am here so sorry.

 

[JES]

Been gone for...I don't know how long, due to a bad hard drive, and I didn't want to use my phone to keep up. I've really, really fallen behind on posts on this site (and every other site I frequent). I'll probably just have to start over, rather than spending endless hours trying to play catch up. Maybe I'll go back and read the comments that have gotten 4 or more likes, because there has been some amazing speculation.

Anyways, it looks like while I ways away, we now have:

A Raticate that will hate Mach Punch even more than normal, while no longer getting STAB from Guts Facade (if it even gets Guts!). Psychic and Ghost immunities not withstanding.

I almost thought that Jangmo-o was an Ultra Beast due to the strange name. Hopefully he isn't, because he looks too ordinary compared to the nice alien theme that the Ultra Beasts have going.

Pokémon from another dimension/planet/not Pokémon at all?! And here I was looking forward to catching UB-02 Expansion in Sun, only to find out I probably can't? This is getting weird. But the designs are among the best we've seen thus far IMO.
UB-01 is definitely otherworldly. When in doubt, go with a jellyfish as inspiration.
Beauty is definitely otherworldly as well, as far as humanoids can look. I dare say if they wanted it to be sexy, they didn't fail.
Expansion is one buffed up looking bug.
I wonder if theses even have types per se. Like I said, I really like what they have going on with these things, and I hope there are many more to look forward to.

And I have to wonder what the deal is with Type: Null. He looks like a hybrid of some sort, making me wonder if he is a genetically engineered Pokémon like Mewtwo, perhaps an attempt to create an artificial Ultra Beast that is easy to control? Type: Null is not a normal Pokémon name, and I'm wondering if he will even be usable without hacking.

Rockruff's evolutions: Day looks sleek, while Night looks as crazy as a fox. Too bad the designers didn't take full advantage of being a Rock type. Guess that was so they are more plausibly huggable? Which is hard enough if your dog has claws made out of keratin. Maybe there is a reason they didn't add spines made out of rock like I would have done. Then again, looks like they added spikes to the Day mane, and along the ribcage area for Night. Guess they didn't want to go overboard.

And really, Ash is going to school? Whatever happened to him wanting to be a Pokémon Master. Going to school won't help him with that goal. Maybe he should catch one of the legendaries he keeps encountering, instead of blowing every chance he gets. I can tell that the anime is probably going to go the way this year's presidential election has been.

Finally, it looks like the hope is up that Zygarde can at least be used in the campaign part of the game, if not play a part against Team Skull or the Ultra Beasts. Perhaps you get Complete Form due to the threat these unknown creatures pose, and when that isn't enough, you get Solgaleo/Lunaala to deal with them too (because one Legendary isn't enough, that is how powerful they are).

 

[Ungoliath]

A Raticate that will hate Mach Punch even more than normal, while no longer getting STAB from Guts Facade (if it even gets Guts!). Psychic and Ghost immunities not withstanding.

Facade still counts as STAB. So it's 70 * 1.5 = 105. and 210 BP after Hustle, reduce Accuracy to 80%. 420 BP when inflicted with Status. Since it will hit normal all the time, with an already 81 (Not assuming increase in this stat) is not as bad when we think it also gets a STAB for Sucker Punch.

 

[Taistelu]

Phione would be proud.

Not a pre-evo.

EDIT: Sniped apparently.

 

[EJ190]

Facade still counts as STAB. So it's 70 * 1.5 = 105. and 210 BP after Hustle, reduce Accuracy to 80%. 420 BP when inflicted with Status. Since it will hit normal all the time, with an already 81 (Not assuming increase in this stat) is not as bad when we think it also gets a STAB for Sucker Punch.

I thought Hustle gave a 50% boost?

 

[Upstart]

Interestingly after watching the Pokemon generation short, red is confronted by zygarde complete in the giant crater in the kalos region. It's hard to believe this wasn't intended for a z installment. I really wanted to see kalos in its full glory after its rather scant story.

But I guess with the NX supposedly on the way, they decided to maximize use of the ds's graphics engine for what's rumored to be compatibility. Although I'm hyped for twists of this convoluted story, I can not get over how beautiful the rendering of the environment in a Pokemon game looks. Sun & moon may not be the games we wanted, but their the games we needed to bridge Pokemon into the future.

Mobile gaming has decimated handheld gaming market. Pokemon and fire emblem are the legendaries keeping the ds and industry afloat. Sun & moon doesn't look to be pulling punches. All aboard hype train moving at Haman overdrive. #wakemeupwhenoctoberends

 

[Sirya]

Raticate-A counters Lunala, that's all about it.

PD: If Lunala don't get focus blast e.e

 

[Nelson Tangela]

Raticate-A counters Lunala, that's all about it.

PD: If Lunala don't get focus blast e.e

...or Moonblast.

 

[Darvin]

Raticate-A counters Lunala, that's all about it.

PD: If Lunala don't get focus blast e.e

...or Moonblast.

Doesn't matter what moves Lunala runs; anything with STAB Sucker Punch just murders it. Using Mewtwo as a stand-in for Lunala and adjusting typing/abilities accordingly:

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Raticate Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Mewtwo: 406-478 (115 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of all the x4 weaknesses to have, Dark is one of the nastiest...

 

[Bice]

Raticate-A counters Lunala, that's all about it.

PD: If Lunala don't get focus blast e.e

Except for the fact that Alolan Raticate will most likely have mediocre stats and will probably be unusable in Ubers.

 

[Pyritie]

Doesn't matter what moves Lunala runs; anything with STAB Sucker Punch just murders it. Using Mewtwo as a stand-in for Lunala and adjusting typing/abilities accordingly:

252 Atk Life Orb Hustle Raticate Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Mewtwo: 406-478 (115 - 135.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Of all the x4 weaknesses to have, Dark is one of the nastiest...

pair it with yveltal then, as it resists both dark and ghost

 

[Ungoliath]

I was noticing that the new art of the anime is the same as the leak with Mallow in it months ago. I know, it's irrelevant...But I guess we could have predicted a change in art-style back in July.

 

[deluge]

About Alolan Raticate losing Guts, keep in mind that we don't know hidden abilities yet. So far all Alolan Raticate's abilities are also learned by Kanto Raticate but the Hidden ability, Hustle, is a normal ability for the Alolan form. The HA could be anything, including Run Awway (:trollface) but there's also a chance for something good.

 

[Maou]

Meowth-A has an evolution? I mean, we know Rattata has an Alolan form, and his evolution too, but I never heard the same for Meowth-A... Persian has an Alolan form or this new Meowth does not have evolution?

 

[Pikachu315111]

Meowth-A has an evolution? I mean, we know Rattata has an Alolan form, and his evolution too, but I never heard the same for Meowth-A... Persian has an Alolan form or this new Meowth does not have evolution?

I would find it very odd for them to give Meowth an Alolan form but not Persian, because what would be the point then? So Meowth has a new form to play with in Little Cup (because it's not going to be used in any other format) while Persian stays where it's at?

To me it's not a question of if but when and how. When will they reveal Alolan Persian (if they even do, would be interesting to see them hold out on that for you to discover in the games) and how will it be different (will it be as subtle as Meowth or will it be more drastic in some way).

 

[Taistelu]

This thread stopped giving me alerts :[

Persian-A will be a thing. They will not have an Alolan form evolve into a regular form.

 

[EJ190]

About Alolan Raticate losing Guts, keep in mind that we don't know hidden abilities yet. So far all Alolan Raticate's abilities are also learned by Kanto Raticate but the Hidden ability, Hustle, is a normal ability for the Alolan form. The HA could be anything, including Run Awway (:trollface) but there's also a chance for something good.

Strong jaw would be pretty cool tbh. It's no guts but 50% boost to both crunch and hyper fang is no joke. Although, guts Facade and sucker punch would be stronger...


And, on an unrelated note, is there anything special about the Aether foundation logo?

Edit: I just remembered we get news in 2 days! Hyped!

 

[Cutefluffysheep]

Hello! Longtime Orange Islands viewer but new member.

Anyway, I have a theory. Not sure if this has been brought up already but... What if ultra beasts are actually sychro evolutions(like Ash-Greninja)?

UB-01 might be a combination of Lillie and possibly Jellicent/Tentacruel/ other jellyfish Pokemon
UB-02 Absorption could be some human (it really doesn't look like any human revealed so far) and Cutiefly(or its evos)
UB-02 Beauty looks a lot like Lusamine, and if you look closely, quite similar to Wimpod, so it could be a combo of those two.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Hello! Longtime Orange Islands viewer but new member.

Anyway, I have a theory. Not sure if this has been brought up already but... What if ultra beasts are actually sychro evolutions(like Ash-Greninja)?

UB-01 might be a combination of Lillie and possibly Jellicent/Tentacruel/ other jellyfish Pokemon
UB-02 Absorption could be some human (it really doesn't look like any human revealed so far) and Cutiefly(or its evos)
UB-02 Beauty looks a lot like Lusamine, and if you look closely, quite similar to Wimpod, so it could be a combo of those two.

I don't think so. For one thing they look nothing like those Pokemon, if you'll notice with Ash-Greninja that Greninja still looks like a Greninja except with some traits of Ash. Second they're building up the Ultra Beasts as something completely different, something alien, which come from another dimension. It would be a major let down for them just to be a human who fused themselves with a Pokemon. In my opinion it wouldn't be a plot twist but more a plot misstep. Finally, I sort of feel that would be too "obvious". We're suppose to think of Lillie and Lumasine upon looking at UB-01 and UB-02 Beauty, we're assumed the two are connected somehow, and the most obvious connection would be they're one and the same. I want to think there's something more at play here, something which means they're not the same character and their relation to one another has plot relevance to unfolding what happened in the story and not exactly character.

 

[Axelsaurus]

Hello! Longtime Orange Islands viewer but new member.

Anyway, I have a theory. Not sure if this has been brought up already but... What if ultra beasts are actually sychro evolutions(like Ash-Greninja)?

UB-01 might be a combination of Lillie and possibly Jellicent/Tentacruel/ other jellyfish Pokemon
UB-02 Absorption could be some human (it really doesn't look like any human revealed so far) and Cutiefly(or its evos)
UB-02 Beauty looks a lot like Lusamine, and if you look closely, quite similar to Wimpod, so it could be a combo of those two.

I highly doubt UBs are fusions between humans and random pokémons. Also, "fusion" pokémons do exist (although not with humans EDIT: I forgot Ash-Greninja... Ok, it's not a real fusion, but makes it clear on how GF sees "fusions" in Pokémon), and they actually do look as different beings fused together: Black and White Kyurems and Type: Null. UBs don't look at all like fusions, and I would find it really weird to use random 'mons to eventually create these beasts... I could see it with legendaries, but not with random wimpod or cutiefly (the similarity with the UBs and these 'mons are loosely at best too).

 

[Rudoku]

Until they actually give any info, I'm just gonna assume that the UB family are just like Digimon: Cyber Sleuth's "Eaters". Non-pokemon enemies to made to slap broken abilities on.

 

[Drake Wolf]

Or similar to the D-Reaper. That thing was creepy.

On topic: I don't expect new information in two days. I think they will only reveal Lugarugan. I hope I'm wrong about this one...