1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!


Discussion in 'Global Battle Union' started by Sprocket, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Jul 10, 2010
    Ghost / Poison
    Ability: Levitate
    HP: 60
    Attack: 65
    Defense: 60
    Sp.Attack: 130
    Sp.Defense: 75
    Speed: 110

    Everyone's favorite Gen I Ghost is back for more action! Due to Gengar's blazing fast Speed, hard hitting Special Attack, and large movepool, Gengar remains one of the most powerful, and most unpredictable Pokemon around. This is even moreso on GBU since unpredictability is the name of the game.

    Because Gengar is so unpredictable in practice, there really is no "one" standard set, although there are plenty of great sets for Gengar to use. I'm going to try to list some of the best ones.

    Gen V Level-up Moves
    Show Hide
    Start Hypnosis
    Start Lick
    Start Spite
    5 Spite
    8 Mean Look
    12 Curse
    15 Night Shade
    19 Confuse Ray
    22 Sucker Punch
    25 Shadow Punch
    28 Payback
    33 Shadow Ball
    39 Dream Eater
    44 Dark Pulse
    50 Destiny Bond
    55 Hex
    61 Nightmare

    Gen V TM Moves
    Show Hide
    TM06 Toxic
    TM09 Venoshock
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM19 Telekinesis
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM29 Psychic
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM31 Brick Break
    TM32 Double Team
    TM36 Sludge Bomb
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM52 Focus Blast
    TM53 Energy Ball
    TM56 Fling
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM63 Embargo
    TM64 Explosion
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM66 Payback
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM84 Poison Jab
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM90 Substitute
    TM92 Trick Room
    TM94 Rock Smash
    HM04 Strength

    Gen V Egg Moves
    Gen V Egg Moves (open)
    Clear Smog
    Fire Punch
    Ice Punch
    Perish Song
    Scary Face

    Dream World Moves
    Show Hide
    -Hypnosis (level-up)
    -Disable (HGSS egg move)
    -Sludge Wave (Dream World Exclusive)

    Previous Generation Moves
    Show Hide
    Gen III TM Moves - Gen V Duplicates omitted
    TM01 Focus Punch
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM48 Skill Swap
    TM49 Snatch
    Gen III Move Tutor Moves
    Body Slam - FrLgEXd
    Counter - FrLgE
    Double-Edge - FrLgEXd
    DynamicPunch - E
    Endure - E
    Fire Punch - E
    Ice Punch - E
    Mega Kick - FrLgE
    Mega Punch - FrLgE
    Metronome - FrLgE
    Psych Up - E
    Seismic Toss - FrLgEXd
    Selfdestruct - Xd
    Sleep Talk - E
    Snore - E
    ThunderPunch - E
    Gen IV TM Moves - Gen V Duplicates omitted
    TM01 Focus Punch
    TM19 Giga Drain
    TM43 Secret Power
    TM48 Skill Swap
    TM49 Snatch
    TM58 Endure
    TM60 Drain Punch
    TM78 Captivate
    TM79 Dark Pulse
    TM82 Sleep Talk
    TM83 Natural Gift
    Gen IV Move Tutor
    Fire Punch - PtHGSS
    Headbutt - HGSS
    Ice Punch - HGSS
    Icy Wind - PtHGSS
    Knock Off - PtHGSS
    Ominous Wind - PtHGSS
    Pain Split - HGSS
    Skill Swap - HGSS
    Snore - PtHGSS
    Spite - PtHGSS
    Sucker Punch - PtHGSS
    ThunderPunch - PtHGSS
    Trick - PtHGSS
    Uproar - PtHGSS


    Gengar @ item of choice
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Disable / Pain Split / Protect / attack of choice / other

    Gengar's standard set on in Smogon is also quite useful in GBU for the same reasons. Substitute is used to block status (namely Thunder Wave) and scout your opponent's move, Shadow Ball and Focus Blast for nearly perfect coverage, and a fourth move to do ... well, whatever you want with it.

    Once you have Substitute up, you're basically free to do anything as long as you aren't ganged up on by priority users or anything faster like Jolteon. Just beware Prankster Taunt users like Thundurus or Whimsicott who can stop you from putting up a Substitute at all.

    Additional Comments:
    Gengar has a fairly wide range of options available to it outside of the listed moves. Some of them include Clear Smog, Confuse Ray, Energy Ball, Explosion, Hex, Psychic, Hidden Power, Icy Wind, Thunder, Sludge Wave through the Dream World, and even Trick Room.

    Perish Song Trapper

    Gengar @ Black Sludge / Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    -Perish Song
    -Mean Look
    -Substitute / Protect /
    -Taunt / Pain Split / Role Play or Skill Swap

    Gengar can use Mean Look + Perish Song to take out extremely annoying Pokemon like Chansey or Cradily that have accumulated an extreme amount of defensive and evasion boosts. The given EV spreads and nature are to give Gengar as much physical bulk as possible. You can shift the nature and EVs to your liking. The main reason to use this over Prankster Murkrow (which can accomplish the same job, only better) is the surprise factor, since Murkrow's existence will telegraph that it's probably going to utilize Prankster in some fashion. Murkrow also doesn't have access Pain Split.

    Additional Comments:
    The core moves in the set are Mean Look + Perish Song, with the other two moves acting as filler moves, however the choice of the second two moves determines what Gengar can do once it's primary objective has been accomplished. Substitute is to help block status and give Gengar a defensive buffer against attacks. Black Sludge and Sitrus Berry are to keep Gengar alive as long as possible, while Mental Herb is to counter the effects of Taunt.

    Excellent doubles and triples partners for this set are Whimsicott and Thundurus, whom Gengar can use Role Play on to copy Prankster while they proceed to do their business. Alternatively Skill Swap can be used on rival Whimsicotts, but you must beware Taunt. Skill Swap can hit non-adjacent targets in triples, unlike Role Play which can only hit adjacent targets.

    Note that Gengar can only learn Pain Split and Role Play in HGSS Move Tutor, and Skill Swap through a Gen III or Gen IV TM.

    Hypnosis is an option to further trap with Perish Song, but it's accuracy is shaky at best.

    Choice Scarf
    Gengar @ Choice Scarf
    100 HP / 252 SpA / 156 Spe
    -Shadow Ball
    -Focus Blast
    -Psychic / Thunderbolt / Sludge Ball / Sludge Wave
    -Dark Pulse / HP Fire or HP Ice / Trick

    With a Choice Scarf equipped and the given EV spread, Gengar reaches 247 speed which outspeeds Choice Scarf Haxorus while maintaining a little bit of bulk. With max speed investment Gengar can outspeed +1 Terrakion, and with no speed investment Gengar outspeeds just about everything that lacks a Choice Scarf and no speed investment.

    Shadow Ball and Focus Blast provide near perfect neutral coverage and are the main two moves on this set, leaving the second two moves to user preference. For the third move, Psychic provides perfect neutral coverage, Thunderbolt can take down water types like Gyarados, while Sludge Ball / Sludge Wave provide a secondary STAB attack that actually hits harder than Shadow Ball, but has poor offensive coverage. For the final move, Dark Pulse is ideal for Triples since it can hit the entire field regardless of position (which Shadow Ball cannot do); HP Fire can take down Ferrothorn, Scizor, Escavalier, and other pesky Steels more reliably than Focus Blast; HP Ice can OHKO most Dragons outside of Latios and Hydreigon, and hit flying types and grass types like Thundurus harder than other attacks. Gengar has several other attacking options

    Trick is also an option for the final slot, since Gengar is one of the very fastest Trick users in the game. Although it's been nerfed this generation, Explosion can provide a nasty surprise.

    Trick Room + Explosion
    Gengar @ Focus Sash / Macho brace
    IVs: 0 Speed
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
    -Shadow Ball
    -Trick Room
    -Protect / Focus Blast

    With no speed investment and a Quiet nature, Gengar reaches a mere 103 speed (51 with a Macho Brace equipped), which makes it perform significantly better under Trick Room conditions than most teams are prepared for. Equipped with a Focus Sash, Gengar is virtually guaranteed to get Trick Room up as long as it's not Taunted. After the Trick Room is up, Gengar can either go on the offensive with Shadow Ball, or go out with an Explosion.

    Additional Comments:
    This set's main two moves are Trick Room and Explosion. Gengar is an unlikely candidate for using Trick Room and catches unprepared teams off guard. Despite it's nerf in Gen V, Explosion can still do significant damage, inflicting approximately 44-52% damage to even physically defensive Blissey in singles (33-39% in doubles or triples). The main item is Focus Sash, but Macho Brace will greatly "improve" Gengar's speed under Trick Room. Shadow Ball is the main STAB attack, with the fourth move being largely filler; this Gengar won't last long even under the best conditions.

    In doubles and triples, an ideal partner for this set is a Telepathy Helping Hand user, namely Gardevoir or Musharna. Telepathy allows the partner to not take damage from Explosion, while Helping Hand raises Explosion's offensive power enough to dent even the strongest physical walls.

    Other Options:
    Gengar literally has a gigantic movepool. If you want it, Gengar can often use it.

    Gengar is one of the few Pokemon with access to Clear Smog, which not only has perfect accuracy, it will remove all accumulated stat boosts, however it's useless on Steel types. Despite it's poor Attack stat, Gengar can use a fairly effective physical set to catch Specially Defensive opponents off guard, utilizing Substitute + Focus Punch, the Elemental Punches, Shadow Punch, Sucker Punch, and so on.

    Doubles / Triples Partners:
    Dual Screen support is greatly appreciated considering Gengar's abysmal defenses. Follow Me and Rage Powder users can help to set up a Substitute or other support move. Partnered with a Smeargle that knows Dark Void or another Pokemon that can reliably induce Sleep (such as Amoonguss), Gengar is a fearsome user of Dream Eater, Nightmare, and Hex as long as your opponent doesn't switch out. Though unreliable Gengar can utilize Hypnosis. If using Sludge Wave, Steel partners are greatly appreciated since they are immune to it.

    Faster Psychics, faster Ghosts, and faster Darks can usually OHKO with a SE attack. Anything with Mold Breaker and Earthquake will ignore Levitate and hit for SE damage. Anything with a strong STAB can likely OHKO, and usually 2HKO, due to Gengar's abysmal defenses. Anything with Sucker Punch when Substitute isn't up is a check. Anything that can survive an attack and attack back. Prankster Taunt users stop Gengar from setting up, but they must beware an attacking Gengar. Though rare in GBU, Gengar must watch for Pursuit, as it will almost always OHKO.
  2. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Jul 10, 2010
    I'm a bit slashy with Gengar's sets, but it's only because each set has one or two main moves, and the rest are filler.
  3. Solace

    Solace cheap thrills
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Nov 4, 2009
    I've been seeing a ton of Japanese players using a cool bulky TR Gengar. Obviously it would seem less than ideal with Gengar's high speed, but it's worked fairly well in the time that I've seen it used against me.
  4. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Jul 10, 2010
    I've seen one of those TR Gengar, and it's surprisingly effective. I was thinking about using a TR Gengar with Iron Ball, despite it negating Levitate (alternatively I could use a Power Item to achieve the same thing).
  5. Solace

    Solace cheap thrills
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Super Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Nov 4, 2009
    I'm not sure what item or EV spread is used, but I'm guessing Power Items or Macho Brace would be used if we're avoiding losing Levitate with Iron Ball.
  6. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Jul 10, 2010
    Iron Ball does have one niche: annoy the hell out of trick users, but other than that yeah Macho Brace / Power Items are generally superior.
  7. NoJohns


    Sep 11, 2010
    No Hypnosis on Perish Trap? Or is that banned?
  8. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Jul 10, 2010
    Added, but it's pretty shaky accuracy after all.
  9. ~Golden Emp

    ~Golden Emp

    Mar 31, 2009
    Awww Good ol' Gengar :3

    Gengar @Focus Sash
    EV's: 252 spatk, 252 atk, 6 filler
    -Shadow Ball

    I LOVE THIS SET. 'Nuff said. (it was better in 4th without the explosion nerf, though...)
  10. Sprocket

    Sprocket P(n) = 1 - (1 - P(1))^n

    Jul 10, 2010
    Musharna or Gardevoir w/ Telepathy + Helping Hand, or a Ghost partner + Helping Hand ftw.
  11. Alchemist Fullmetal

    Alchemist Fullmetal

    Aug 8, 2011
    I've been using the gen 4 anti lead Gengar set and it does pretty well in this metagame without stealth rock. Although it hates sand.

    Nature: Hasty
    @Focus Sash
    0 Defense IV
    -Icy Wind/Taunt
    -Shadow Ball
    -Destiny Bond

    As long as the sash is intact, it does well for taking down physical attackers. Icy Wind is usefull for dealing with Dragon Dancers, letting them only get +1 attack, and usefull for breaking Dnite's multiscale and the next Icy Wind Ko'ing. Shadow ball for coverage and Destiny Bond to take something else done once you used up your sash or cant use it. Taunt is an option to prevent boosting moves and recovery.
  12. R12Multi


    Oct 9, 2012
    Trick Room Gengar is well... intresting ._. i honestly want to try a speedy varient with explosion in 4th gen
  13. hathater


    Feb 7, 2013
    with explosion, i found normal gem to be quite interesting
  14. voidzone


    Dec 20, 2011
    I've been running Gengar (timid 252/252) with Protect/Shadow Ball/Icy Wind/Taunt in my IC Marchteam, which did have its moments. It has especially nice synergy with Chomp, since it does not only ignore EQ, but also opens (faster) Dragons (Lati@s, opposing Chomp etc.) to a deadly Dragon Claw hit with the help of Icy Wind.
  15. Scron


    Nov 19, 2012
    I usually use Gengar as a late game sweeper to clean up the stragglers. He certainly has nice synergy with tanky support pokemon that wittle down the opponent's team. This is because his defenses are so frail, and he faints if sneezed on. If you can ensure there are no more pokemon with focus sashes or with the ability sturdy, you can either finish off or take a big chunk out of the opponent's team.
  16. tlyee61


    Sep 25, 2010


    (in all seriousness, you might want to try the VGC 2013 revamp forums for future insight)

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)