Gengarite Tiering Discussion [read post #383]

[anubite]

Gengar is an important part of the OU metagame, removing gengarite will simply add more problems to keeping other MMons in check.

Gengar has plenty of counters. People who say he has no counters are being lunatics. He's not Sableye, or something, he's VERY weak to ATK-based Psychic, Ground, Ghost and Dark moves. Hell, want to hear a pokemon that has "no counters"? It's called Ferrothorn. You need a fire attack to put a dent in him, and most everybody using him has Drizzle or some pokemon which can easily take advantage of your attempts to attack him with fire. If they kill all your fire attackers, he can easily wall an entire team. He's basically unkillable if you rely too much on contact-damage and he puts up hazards/seeds/twave to weaken any attempts at offensive counter play.

Ferrothorn is more OP than Gengarite. In-fact, I see a Ferrothorn WAY way more often than I do a MGengar, let alone one with Perish Trap.

 

[AOPSUser]

Gengar is an important part of the OU metagame, removing gengarite will simply add more problems to keeping other MMons in check.

Gengar has plenty of counters. People who say he has no counters are being lunatics. He's not Sableye. Hell, want to hear a pokemon that has "no counters"? It's called Ferrothorn. You need a fire attack to put a dent in him, and most everybody using him has Drizzle or some pokemon which can easily take advantage of your attempts to attack him with fire. If they kill all your fire attackers, he can easily wall an entire team. He's basically unkillable if you rely too much on contact-damage and he puts up hazards/seeds/twave to weaken any attempts at offensive counter play.

Ferrothorn is more OP than Gengarite. In-fact, I see a Ferrothorn WAY way more often than I do a MGengar, let alone one with Perish Trap.

Go home, you're drunk.

Name something that can switch into Gengar 100% of the time. Oh wait, you can't.

Also Ferrothorn is absurdly easy to set up on, and easier to remove. With Talonflame around Ferrothorn has fallen out of usage.

If your team loses to one Ferrothorn you need to get a new team.

Also Sableye is a piece of shit and no one uses him in OU.

 

[anubite]

Why am I switching into Mega Gengar. You're being dumb. Would you switch into Mega Absol. Would you switch into Mega Pinsir? Oh right, switching into a swords dance mon sounds like a great idea, just as great as switching into a pokemon that will promptly perish song you.

You beat MGengar by out-predicting your opponent. You make the offensive play that kills him, be it baton passing a speed boost, or swords dancing someone with Shadow Sneak or Bullet Punch or Aerielate-Quickattack or something. Sheesh.

I see Sableeye in OU all the time, he's one of the best Pranksters.

 

[AOPSUser]

Why am I switching into Mega Gengar. You're being dumb. Would you switch into Mega Absol. Would you switch into Mega Pinsir? Oh right, switching into a swords dance mon sounds like a great idea, just as great as switching into a pokemon that will promptly perish song you.

You beat MGengar by out-predicting your opponent. You make the offensive play that kills him, be it baton passing a speed boost, or swords dancing someone with Shadow Sneak or Bullet Punch or Aerielate-Quickattack or something. Sheesh.

I see Sableeye in OU all the time, he's one of the best Pranksters.

A counter is something that can switch in 100% of the time and force out the mon in question.

Also if you make offensive plays I switch to my (insert defensive mon here).

Sableye is annoying. Klefki is more annoying. Without having to use Swagger.

The point is that you can't switch into Mega Gengar even if you wanted to. AV Goodra loves switching in (pre-Bank). It can't. Therefore, it can't counter Mega Gengar.

Have you not heard of SWITCHING YOUR MEGA GENGAR?

 

[Chazman]

Gengar is an important part of the OU metagame, removing gengarite will simply add more problems to keeping other MMons in check.

Gengar has plenty of counters. People who say he has no counters are being lunatics. He's not Sableye, or something, he's VERY weak to ATK-based Psychic, Ground, Ghost and Dark moves. Hell, want to hear a pokemon that has "no counters"? It's called Ferrothorn. You need a fire attack to put a dent in him, and most everybody using him has Drizzle or some pokemon which can easily take advantage of your attempts to attack him with fire. If they kill all your fire attackers, he can easily wall an entire team. He's basically unkillable if you rely too much on contact-damage and he puts up hazards/seeds/twave to weaken any attempts at offensive counter play.

Ferrothorn is more OP than Gengarite. In-fact, I see a Ferrothorn WAY way more often than I do a MGengar, let alone one with Perish Trap.

You do know what the definition of counter is in the Pokemon metagame right? A counter is something that can switch into a pokemon, and threaten a kill on the next turn. As Shadow Tag means you can't switch out of the MGengar, there is no way for any pokemon to counter it. Instead, it just has checks, which are pokemon that force it out. Of course, none of the checks can even come in until its all ready killed whatever you needed dead.

As for Ferrothorn, its steel/grass. Fire pretty much one shots it, it hates flying types with a passion, and fighting types ruin its day. People saying its un-counterable need to learn type advantage.

 

[anubite]

If we're going to be banning pokemon based on the "number of pokemon that can safely come in and OHKO another pokemon" then half of OU should be banned to Ubers.

The problem with your stupid analysis is switching into a Perish Song is always a bad idea. It doesn't matter who is doing the Perish Songing. Switch into Perish Song Politoed? He whirlpools you or he gets to set up something else. There's no way you'll OHKO him either.

MGengar cannot be easily killed by switching into him when he Perish Songs, this is like complaining that attacking Ferrothorn with Bulletpunch doesn't work. Fundamentally, how you fight MGengar is different, like any Perish Song user.

Go make a Perish Song based team. I just did. It's strong. Want me to link a replay? I don't even need MGGengar.

 

[Ajwf]

Why am I switching into Mega Gengar. You're being dumb. Would you switch into Mega Absol. Would you switch into Mega Pinsir? Oh right, switching into a swords dance mon sounds like a great idea, just as great as switching into a pokemon that will promptly perish song you.

You beat MGengar by out-predicting your opponent. You make the offensive play that kills him, be it baton passing a speed boost, or swords dancing someone with Shadow Sneak or Bullet Punch or Aerielate-Quickattack or something. Sheesh.

I see Sableeye in OU all the time, he's one of the best Pranksters.

Unfortunately, prediction is not grounds for an argument for or against. It cannot be, because prediction is not a tangible skill. Ergo, you are running theory on how to beat something in a perfect situation. This is not valid to the discussion of his own ability to function.

 

[Pombo]

Gengar is an important part of the OU metagame, removing gengarite will simply add more problems to keeping other MMons in check.

Gengar has plenty of counters. People who say he has no counters are being lunatics. He's not Sableye, or something, he's VERY weak to ATK-based Psychic, Ground, Ghost and Dark moves. Hell, want to hear a pokemon that has "no counters"? It's called Ferrothorn. You need a fire attack to put a dent in him, and most everybody using him has Drizzle or some pokemon which can easily take advantage of your attempts to attack him with fire. If they kill all your fire attackers, he can easily wall an entire team. He's basically unkillable if you rely too much on contact-damage and he puts up hazards/seeds/twave to weaken any attempts at offensive counter play.

Ferrothorn is more OP than Gengarite. In-fact, I see a Ferrothorn WAY way more often than I do a MGengar, let alone one with Perish Trap.

although i agree with you, i must be a prick and comment on this last line:
just because something is not used by many it doesnt mean its OP, and vice-versa.

Gengar is just like MKanga and other mons... you must play around it. Doesnt like not being able to 100% counter something? learn2play.
I dont think any living pokemon counters every Dragonite, Jirachi or Lucario set at the same time. Thats why you must guess (based on their team composition) or just scout. 1 U-turn against a perish trap gengar and you pretty much shouldnt get trapped again for the rest of the match.

 

[Selena Gomaz]

Please just ban the Gengarite. We have idiots voting "no" and still don't understand the basis of a counter and check. This is getting out of hand and a bit repetitive.

 

[AOPSUser]

If we're going to be banning pokemon based on the "number of pokemon that can safely come in and OHKO another pokemon" then half of OU should be banned to Ubers.

The problem with your stupid analysis is switching into a Perish Song is always a bad idea. It doesn't matter who is doing the Perish Songing. Switch into Perish Song Politoed? He whirlpools you or he gets to set up something else. There's no way you'll OHKO him either.

MGengar cannot be easily killed by switching into him when he Perish Songs, this is like complaining that attacking Ferrothorn with Bulletpunch doesn't work. Fundamentally, how you fight MGengar is different, like any Perish Song user.

Go make a Perish Song based team. I just did. It's strong. Want me to link a replay? I don't even need MGGengar.

How do you beat Mega Gengar? Mostly, how do you beat a smart user of Mega Gengar?

Perish Song isn't even his best set IMO, it's best is Taunt+3 Attacks or Sub+3 Attacks.

You can switch to Talonflame when your opponent has a Ferrothorn out. You can't switch to Tyranitar when Mega Gengar is out until he eliminates your <insert sweeper here> counter, and then you get clean swept.

Perish Song Politoed is gay and hard to set up. A shitton of stuff OHKOes him. Most notably, if you can predict the Protect, and you are faster, you can set up on the Protect and nail him while he tries to Sub. Mega Gengar is pretty fast, but I don't like Perish Song because you have to take that one hit.

Also we don't ban based on counters. Otherwise, Hydreigon would be Uber and Kyogre would be OU. We ban on how well it does its job despite all its difficulties. Kyogre can't touch Shedinja, but it's not revelant since it OHKOes 80% of OU and no one in their right mind uses Shedinja anyways.

You're just making yourself look extra stupid here.

 

[Thorhammer]

Go home, you're drunk.

Name something that can switch into Gengar 100% of the time. Oh wait, you can't.

Also Ferrothorn is absurdly easy to set up on, and easier to remove. With Talonflame around Ferrothorn has fallen out of usage.

If your team loses to one Ferrothorn you need to get a new team.

Also Sableye is a piece of shit and no one uses him in OU.

Sableye and Ferrothorn are very manageable for any decent player, but your core argument is one that's been disproved time and time again. (Funny, isn't that exactly what the pro-ban people keep saying about the anti-ban arguments?) Many good Pokemon are not easy to switch into 100% of the time; things are not remotely expected to have counters in order to not be banned. After all, if they were, all Pokemon with trapping abilities would be banned.

Also, while it's manageable like other Pokemon, Sableye is most certainly a worthwhile Pokemon in OU and if you haven't been seeing him you haven't been paying enough attention.

Can we just stop saying the word "counter" in this thread ever?

 

[anubite]

I am proficient at pokemon, even if I'm not proficient at the exact nitpicky terminology. A counter to me is not something which necessarily can "switch in" in any given situation. Moltres might "counter" Ferrothorn, but it doesn't if he has SR up.

I've played 'competitively' in every gen since Gen3, I think that entitles me to a vote. Ban MGengar all you want after a true test, like every other pokemon is normally subjected to. A quick ban is stupid, because I have never been soundly beaten by a Perish Trap set.

 

[AOPSUser]

Sableye and Ferrothorn are very manageable for any decent player, but your core argument is one that's been disproved time and time again. (Funny, isn't that exactly what the pro-ban people keep saying about the anti-ban arguments?) Many good Pokemon are not easy to switch into 100% of the time; things are not remotely expected to have counters in order to not be banned. After all, if they were, all Pokemon with trapping abilities would be banned.

Also, while it's manageable like other Pokemon, Sableye is most certainly a worthwhile Pokemon in OU and if you haven't been seeing him you haven't been paying enough attention.

Can we just stop saying the word "counter" in this thread ever?

I have like 70 battles so far in Pre-bank OU, no Sableye. But anyways,

I didn't even list any of the arguments for banning Gengarite. Other than the "you can't switch in part". I only used that example to refute that particular argument.

I am proficient at pokemon, even if I'm not proficient at the exact nitpicky terminology. A counter to me is not something which necessarily can "switch in" in any given situation. Moltres might "counter" Ferrothorn, but it doesn't if he has SR up.

I've played 'competitively' in every gen since Gen3, I think that entitles me to a vote. Ban MGengar all you want after a true test, like every other pokemon is normally subjected to. A quick ban is stupid, because I have never been soundly beaten by a Perish Trap set.

Mega Gengar is not supposed to soundly beat you. It soundly beats your counters to <insert sweeper here>, provided that your opponent is not an idiot. People tend to ignore Mega Gengar's role in their getting swept by SD Talonflame/Lucario. Also if you don't care about a ban after a test, then why bother doing the test and wasting that much time on it.

I don't see that many correctly-played Mega Gengar on the lower ladder (~1800). But on higher-level play when it's used correctly it can be very instrumental in setting up wins.

Also Moltres does counter Ferrothorn regardless of SR.

 

[anubite]

Moltres comes in on SR and takes 50% of its life. Ferrothorn uses Twave when it switches in and can switch out freely. If your definition of counter is 'forced a switch' then fine, but my definition is 'forced a switch without incurring significant loss'. That Moltres is pretty much unusable at that point, anything can come in and kill it and Ferrothorn took no damage. In a worst case scenario, you eat an Air Slash or a Fire Blast from it but can probably set up whatever you want against it. If you seeded it instead on a switch in, even better.

 

[Arcticblast]

If we're going to be banning pokemon based on the "number of pokemon that can safely come in and OHKO another pokemon" then half of OU should be banned to Ubers.

The problem with your stupid analysis is switching into a Perish Song is always a bad idea. It doesn't matter who is doing the Perish Songing. Switch into Perish Song Politoed? He whirlpools you or he gets to set up something else. There's no way you'll OHKO him either.

MGengar cannot be easily killed by switching into him when he Perish Songs, this is like complaining that attacking Ferrothorn with Bulletpunch doesn't work. Fundamentally, how you fight MGengar is different, like any Perish Song user.

Go make a Perish Song based team. I just did. It's strong. Want me to link a replay? I don't even need MGGengar.

not sure if you figured this out or not but it's literally impossible to switch into a Perish Song from Mega Gengar because it has Shadow Tag which (unless you have Shed Shell [lol] or are a Ghost [Gengar won't come in on you]) prevents you from choosing to switch

don't say "but mega evolution!" because that's a dumb argument that really shouldn't be thrown around like it already is in this thread

 

[AOPSUser]

Moltres comes in on SR and takes 50% of its life. Ferrothorn uses Twave when it switches in and can switch out freely. If your definition of counter is 'forced a switch' then fine, but my definition is 'forced a switch without incurring significant loss'. That Moltres is pretty much unusable at that point, anything can come in and kill it and Ferrothorn took no damage. In a worst case scenario, you eat an Air Slash or a Fire Blast from it.

We're not talking about Moltres here, but let's say I make a Gastrodon->Moltres switch. Are you going to T-Wave? I didn't think so.

Also you should tell me if you could avoid being swept by a good team based around a Mega Gengar and a good user of it.

don't say "but mega evolution!" because that's a dumb argument that really shouldn't be thrown around like it already is in this thread

For PerishTrap Gengar that first turn is really nice, since you can trap whatever your opponent's Mega Gengar counter was, like AV Tyranitar, on the switch. Later you don't have that luxury of forcing the switch, and you have to take a hit from whatever you have to kill to set up Perish Song. That's assuming you play it right.

 

[Yellow Tokiwa]

Pombo "you must play around it" This implies that it really centralizes the metagame, as you must carry 2+ counter to them. That is the reason a pokémon is banished to ubers.
anubite gengar is not supposed to take any SE hits or perish song the entire metagame... gees, you have 6 pokémon for a reason. Gengar takes out what is neccesary, not everything. AS for politoed, have you seen how many rotom washes there are. the threat of volt switch just makes this non viable. Also, majority of the meta can hit poli as it is SLOW, unlike mengar

For all of the players that say Mega gengar is underwhelming, it is because you have a low elo and that will speak for the posts you are posting, As AOPSuser said that Mengar users only get good around 1800... AS for ferrothorn, there are celebi, tangrowth and any others. If you see a Ferrothorn in preview, you WILL keep your fire type alive to check it. ANyone who throws away their ferrothorn counter when the rest of the team is ferro weak really does not deserve to post here.

I would like to remind all users that this is a suspect test for MGengar, NOT FERROTHORN.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Playing around MGengar is neutering your team because the only way to play around it is to give everyone that isn't a Ghost type U-Turn, Volt Switch, Parting Shot, or Baton Pass and those moves don't have the best distribution. After that the only option is Shed Shell, and you give up whatever item you have to run that. This puts pressure on offensive Pokemon and it makes defensive/stalling Pokemon need one of the moves to have Leftovers/Assault Vest.

 

[Jukain]

I am proficient at pokemon, even if I'm not proficient at the exact nitpicky terminology. A counter to me is not something which necessarily can "switch in" in any given situation. Moltres might "counter" Ferrothorn, but it doesn't if he has SR up.

I've played 'competitively' in every gen since Gen3, I think that entitles me to a vote. Ban MGengar all you want after a true test, like every other pokemon is normally subjected to. A quick ban is stupid, because I have never been soundly beaten by a Perish Trap set.

Let me just put something out there: no one on these forums, and I repeat no one is entitled to a vote on anything. The fact that we have a council system is to streamline the process, and yes, this does take some powers outside the hands of the users, but the fact that we can ban a Pokemon so easily without wasting our time on a suspect test is the entire point of a quick ban. A suspect test requires resources, including the council's time and the player's time. If the outcome is inevitable, then there is no point in a suspect test, especially in such an early stage of the metagame.

Furthermore, not every Pokemon is suspected to a suspect test. The initial banlist -- in both this generation and last generation -- has had no suspect testing involved. Last generation, we saw Kyurem-B and Kyurem-W banned at the beginning of BW2 -- with no debate. This generation we saw Blaziken and Deoxys-N banned with, again, no debate. It's lucky that we even get the chance to voice our opinions, as the council could just utilize its powers and make a decision.

Also, a quick ban is not stupid simply because your experiences on the ladder have made it appear less than amazing. There are too many variables to take into account here -- your opponent's skill, your skill, the Pokemon you have, etc. Perish Trap Gengar is made to trap certain Pokemon that it just can't otherwise. And, according to popular belief, it's not even the best set! The primary set of contention is Destiny Bond + 3 attacks, which is better in many an aspect.

Let's move onto the definition of a counter. A counter, loosely defined, is a Pokemon that can handle all or most common variants of a given Pokemon with relative ease. There are also counters to parts of Pokemon -- these can handle a given variant or subset of sets. Mega Gengar cannot be countered, as it gets to pick and choose what it faces, for the most part. The issue of being uncounterable is not major, though, but being able to choose your battles and thus eliminate the threat of possible checks/counters (at least temporarily) is.

This point has been reiterated throughout the thread; Mega Gengar is not a sweeper. It is the ultimate form of support, however, for any sweeper. The buffs it provides to this metagame's sweepers are simply too much to handle.

 

[SpinningB]

I originally came in this thread to preach about how m-gengar is not broken but after reading some posts and talking on ps i have changed my mind. That being said while i personally think that m-gengar is broken i don't think we can accurately judge this till after real pokebank comes out because for all we know 100 new pokemon get pursuit via breeding or there special defence raised or are changed to dark type. We just cant accurately show what will happen or how it will play out till we know all the facts. Because if we ban it now and a month later when pokebank comes out and its not broken well what then. And if it is broken well its one month we can wait it out as it deserves in my opinion a suspect later but not a quickban because we just don't know whats gonna happen.

 

[Thorhammer]

I originally came in this thread to preach about how m-gengar is not broken but after reading some posts and talking on ps i have changed my mind. That being said while i personally think that m-gengar is broken i don't think we can accurately judge this till after real pokebank comes out because for all we know 100 new pokemon get pursuit via breeding or there special defence raised or are changed to dark type. We just cant accurately show what will happen or how it will play out till we know all the facts. Because if we ban it now and a month later when pokebank comes out and its not broken well what then. And if it is broken well its one month we can wait it out as it deserves in my opinion a suspect later but not a quickban because we just don't know whats gonna happen.

We can know. Most Pokemon are already available, and for the others, checking types is a simple matter. A few things getting +10 SpD won't change whether or not Mega Gengar is broken.

 

[Yellow Tokiwa]

I originally came in this thread to preach about how m-gengar is not broken but after reading some posts and talking on ps i have changed my mind. That being said while i personally think that m-gengar is broken i don't think we can accurately judge this till after real pokebank comes out because for all we know 100 new pokemon get pursuit via breeding or there special defence raised or are changed to dark type. We just cant accurately show what will happen or how it will play out till we know all the facts. Because if we ban it now and a month later when pokebank comes out and its not broken well what then. And if it is broken well its one month we can wait it out as it deserves in my opinion a suspect later but not a quickban because we just don't know whats gonna happen.

I play Pokébank OU, and with a team of Pikachu- CB Dragonite - Tangrowth - Jellicent - Chansey - Porygon2 that wins me 5 - 0s and 6-0s the majority of the time, MeGengar has effectively taken out my Chansey and Porygon2 allowing their volcorona and other special attackers to wreck havoc on my team.

Many people who played seriously against this team had at first thought it was a joke but ended up swearing at me in the end and calling me a bad girl.

From playing in the Mengarless PO environment, i can say that i do not have to take uneccesary precautions to preserve my walls makes stall viable again. A pokémon that makes a style of play unviable is too centralizing, and therefore deserves to be banned. For those who think that Pikachu is a joke and Life Orb Gengar is better than Mengar watch: http://pastebin.com/tk2wFTy6. Chansey can stall LO recoil on LO gengar, while Mengar KOs chansey in 3 turns

Think of the trip to Ubers as an honour...~

 

[Devious]

Pursuit trappers are a true counter to Mega-Gengar. I can't send out my gengar to mega-evolve it until their pursuit trappers are taken out because even with perish-trapping them, I still have to switch out on the last turn or die to the perish song. That means that, even though the pursuiter dies, just like gengar, it has served its purpose. Not only that but you now have to consider the fact that things like any non-mega tyranitar and pursuit scizor aren't even megas which leaves you at a disadvantage if they carry their own mega.

Gengar has always been amazingly diverse, and the mega evolution only adds a couple new sets to that mix, which are its only viable ones since normal gengar is arguably better it the standard sub-disable/pain split, and 3 attacks + support move sets. Once it mega-evolves, you can be pretty sure it is running either 2 attacks + taunt + destiny bond, or perish + protect + sub + other. Those are powerful sets, but both can be worked around due to gengar's frailty. Perish trappers also have little offensive presence since they have to invest in HP to make the most of their meager defenses. If you don't have a pursuit user on your team, then switching to a counter while he mega-evolves and then just remembering that he has a meg-gengar in the wings, you can often double switch your defensive pokemon that are vulnerable to mega-gengar and wear him down. I see this done with ferrothorn against opposing magnezone often, and it gives you a huge advantage in terms of momentum.

Really, Mega-Gengar with perish trap feels a lot like a powerful Magnezone in the sense that it takes out specific pokemon (weak, slower, non-priority pokemon that lack earthquake or ghost moves, without sound/infiltrator, or are immune to trapping/sound). That is actually not as many pokemon as you think, and gengars frailty is actually very important here, because even with HP investment, most super-effective or priority attacks will bring you below 75%, which is all you need to do. Gengar will always take at least one hit (unless you switch as he mega-evolves but that happens only once). Yes shadow tag will 100% trap them if this does happen, but if being able to guarantee a kill against certain pokemon is ban-able, then magnezone should be banned too.

I see a lot of posts saying "how do you taunt a speed 130 gengar?" Some of the best taunters are prankster users like thundurus and sableye. Sableye doesn't even get trapped, allowing you to switch to a counter, after you switched sableye in as he mega-evolved.

 

[Yellow Tokiwa]

Pursuit trappers are a true counter to Mega-Gengar. I can't send out my gengar to mega-evolve it until their pursuit trappers are taken out because even with perish-trapping them, I still have to switch out on the last turn or die to the perish song. That means that, even though the pursuiter dies, just like gengar, it has served its purpose. Not only that but you now have to consider the fact that things like any non-mega tyranitar and pursuit scizor aren't even megas which leaves you at a disadvantage if they carry their own mega.

I see a lot of posts saying "how do you taunt a speed 130 gengar?" Some of the best taunters are prankster users like thundurus and sableye. Sableye doesn't even get trapped, allowing you to switch to a counter, after you switched sableye in as he mega-evolved.

I am tired of seeing this argument. It is totally absurd, and it getting old to even be funny.

No Mengar user who is not drunk and under the influence of team rocket, team snagem, team skull, team dim sun, team meanies, Cipher, Phobos Battalion, Pokémon Pinchers, team galactic, team plasma, team flare, team aqua, team magma, Mylie Cyrus, Brittany Speares, and Justin Bieber would switch Mengar into a pursuit user.

Your pursuit trapper cannot switch in. therefore gengar has already trapped whatever it needs to open up a sweep.. for examples mega gengar takes out your gliscor, you teams only counter to lucario (to play more mindgames as for whom you want to mega). You can pursuit it with your tyranitar as much you like, but lucario is still sweeping the rest of your team. Gengar takes you your major counter to open up a sweep. Mengar is a utility pokemon, meaning that after it does it's job of removing your counter, it has no further use anymore. Whether or not you pursuited it does not matter: you're still getting swept by lucario.

Gengar chooses what it traps. After that, it's pretty much gg. mega left or not, you still lose.

Also, no half-intelligent person would try to perish trap a prankster user. It simply does not make sense. If you still wish to argue on, please read the last 10 pages and realize how broken your argument is, like mega gengar.

 

[MagicMissingno]

Someone should make a video of this thread, that way we could take a drink every time an argument is repeated.

(Ironic that my avatar is never sober in her games and I'm suggesting a drinking game.)