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Gliscor (BW2 Revamp) [QC 3/3] [GP 2/2]

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by Halcyon., Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Gliscor


    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 3/3

    [​IMG]
    GP Approved 2/2​

    [Overview]

    <p>Since its release in the fourth generation, Gliscor has been one of OU's premier physical walls. Its stellar defensive typing gives it a useful resistance to Fighting-type moves and an immunity to Ground-type moves, making it a decent check to Pokemon like Terrakion, Breloom, Landorus-T, and Lucario. Though BW2 brought with it a whole host of new threats for Gliscor, such as Keldeo and Technician Breloom, as well as solid competition in the form of Landorus-T, it still manages to find a solid niche as one of the best physical walls in OU. Gliscor has a few advantages that set it apart from Landorus-T, such as its amazing ability, Poison Heal, which lets it recover 12.5% of its health at the end of every turn when poisoned. BW2 move tutors gave it Roost, which means Gliscor's defensive set can recover an enormous 62.5% in one turn with Poison Heal. It can also make use of Baton Pass to give its teammates Substitutes or Swords Dance and Agility boosts, or it can go offensive with an Acrobatics set.</p>

    <p>However, Gliscor does have plenty of problems as well. Its lackluster HP and Special Defense stats mean that even weak special attacks will be doing major damage to it. Its 4x weakness to Ice-type moves is also a hindrance. This means that some physical Pokemon, like Lucario, Mamoswine, and Conkeldurr, can use Ice-type coverage to break through Gliscor without much difficulty. Gliscor also faces major competition from Landorus-T, which, thanks to its ability Intimidate, is bulkier and which's offensive pivot set is better suited for the current metagame. Despite these flaws, Gliscor's SubToxic set still makes it a formidable opponent, and it deserves to be considered for any defensively oriented team.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubToxic
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Protect / Roost / Taunt
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set sits at the pinnacle of OU stall. By holding a Toxic Orb, Gliscor essentially gets two rounds of Leftovers recovery at the end of each turn. This means that Gliscor can recover all of the health lost from creating a Substitute in only two turns. Because of this, it can continually alternate between Substitute and Protect while Toxic slowly wears down the opposing Pokemon's HP. Protect also lets it stall out your opponent's PP, meaning Pokemon that rely on low PP moves to hit Gliscor like Rotom-W's Hydro Pump will not be able to take it down. This Gliscor set finds it easy to switch in on Choice-locked attacks such as Terrakion's Close Combat and Garchomp's Earthquake, which give it a free opportunity to set up a Substitute. Once Gliscor gets behind a Substitute, it becomes much harder to KO. Only multi-hit moves like Icicle Spear and Bullet Seed can break its Substitute while also doing actual damage to Gliscor itself. Earthquake gives Gliscor a STAB move to hit Pokemon that are immune to Toxic such as Heatran, Lucario, and Jirachi. Roost and Taunt are viable options to use over Protect. Roost lets Gliscor recover large amounts of health if it has been weakened though the course of the battle. This is especially useful in tandem with Poison Heal, as Gliscor can recover 2/3 of its health in one turn. Using Taunt means Gliscor won't be setup bait for entry hazard setters such as Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, and it can prevent slower Taunt users such as Jellicent from stopping its stall cold.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>Gliscor's EVs allow it to outspeed max Speed Landorus-T, as well as specially defensive Zapdos and Adamant Lucario. With this Speed, Gliscor can OHKO Lucario with Earthquake after Stealth Rock and can alternate between Substitute and Protect until Zapdos and Landorus-T run out of Hidden Power Ice and Stone Edge PP, respectively. The EVs also make Gliscor's HP reach a multiple of eight, which means it will gain the maximum amount of health possible from Poison Heal. The rest is put into Defense to maximize its physical bulk.</p>

    <p>Gliscor has a problem beating a lot of defensive Steel-types. While Forretress, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn pose no offensive threat to it, Gliscor can't do much to them either. In return, they can set up Spikes or Stealth Rock or phaze Gliscor with Whirlwind in Skarmory's case. Because of this, Gliscor appreciates a strong Fire-type to eliminate these threats before trying to stall. Magnezone is also a great partner, because it can trap and KO all of the Steel-types mentioned above. Rotom-W with Hidden Power Ice can also be a problem for Gliscor one on one, as it can only be hurt through Toxic damage, and those that carry Rest will be impossible to take down. Because of this, Celebi makes a great partner as well. It can tank many of the special attackers that threaten Gliscor, such as Starmie, Keldeo, Choice Scarf Politoed, Latios, and Thundurus-T. Heatran, Celebi, and Gliscor make an excellent defensive core, covering all of each other's weaknesses. Good teammates also include Tyranitar and Abomasnow, as Gliscor appreciates the added damage that sand and hail bring. Gliscor fits well into teams based around both of these weathers, with each having advantages over the other. In hail, Gliscor still gains 6.25% of its health back when poisoned, while most of its opponents will lose additional health. Sand allows Gliscor to recover the full 12.5%, but there are many more Pokemon immune to sand damage than hail damage. Sand damage, in addition to Toxic damage, will quickly rack up and can make Toxic stalling much easier for Gliscor. Tentacruel makes an excellent partner for Gliscor, as they have great synergy and Tentacruel can provide Toxic Spikes support, which means Gliscor won't have to waste a turn poisoning the opponent.</p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Taunt / Toxic
    move 3: Ice Fang / U-turn
    move 4: Roost / Protect
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 248 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With this set, Gliscor takes advantage of its fantastic defensive typing and above average bulk to put a stop to many of the physical attackers in of OU. For example, it is one of the few Pokemon in OU that can reliably switch into Choice Band Terrakion, having only a 6% chance of being 2HKOed by Stone Edge after Stealth Rock. At first glance, this set might seem to be outclassed by Landorus-T, but Gliscor still has one major advantage that sets it apart: reliable recovery. Not only does Gliscor get Poison Heal to recover 12.5% of its HP at the end of each turn, but it also has Roost, which lets it recover a monstrous 62.5%. This alone sets it apart from Landorus-T, which suffers from a lack of reliable recovery. In addition, Gliscor is immune to status, which means that it can safely wall Jirachi, and doesn't fear switching into Will-O-Wisp or Spore after Toxic Orb has been activated. Gliscor's access to Taunt also sets it apart, meaning slower defensive threats can't set up on it. Earthquake is the main STAB move, and it lets Gliscor hit the likes of Terrakion for super effective damage. Because Gliscor has decent Speed for a wall, Taunt is a good option for the second slot. It allows Gliscor to shut down most other common walls that rely on support moves and prevents things like Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn from setting up entry hazards against Gliscor and Swords Dance Scizor from boosting. Toxic is another option, which lets Gliscor wear down bulky Water-types such as Politoed, Rotom-W, and Jellicent, which love to switch in on Gliscor and can 1-2HKO with Hydro Pump or Scald. Ice Fang lets Gliscor do damage back to Pokemon like Choice Scarf Salamence and Garchomp after it tanks their Outrage. It also gives Gliscor a way of hitting Breloom, which otherwise can set up a Swords Dance and KO with Bullet Seed. However, U-turn is another option to make Gliscor a defensive pivot for your team and grab momentum from the physical attackers that will switch out when Gliscor comes in.</p>

    <p>Protect is a decent option over Roost, as it lets Gliscor scout Choiced special attackers that can switch in on it such as Keldeo and Latios. It also helps to wear down opponents if they have been poisoned, though the SubToxic set is usually better at doing this. This set makes a great addition to any hail team, which commonly have problems with Terrakion and other Fighting-types. In addition, Gliscor has a pseudo-immunity to hail, as it still recovers 6.25% of its health at the end of every turn.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread lets Gliscor outrun Adamant max Speed Scizor to prevent it from setting up with Taunt. The HP investment makes its health a multiple of eight so it regains the maximum amount of HP from Poison Heal possible. The rest is put into its Defense. If your team desperately needs a Pokemon to set Stealth Rock, Gliscor can opt for that over Taunt, but it really appreciates the ability to shut down slower defensive Pokemon.</p>

    <p>Heatran and Celebi make great partners for Gliscor, as they all cover each other's weaknesses perfectly and Gliscor's physically defensive spread compliments their specially defensive ones well. Rotom-W can also make a good teammate, as it can form a VoltTurn core with Gliscor and tank all the rain-boosted Water-type attacks and 4x effective Ice-type attacks aimed at it. Tyranitar also makes a great partner for Gliscor, as Gliscor resists Tyranitar's 4x weakness to Fighting and Tyranitar can provide sand support to further wear down the opponents that Gliscor is walling. Tyranitar can also eliminate Latios and Latias, which can otherwise be troublesome for Gliscor.</p>

    [SET]
    name: AcroBat
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Swords Dance
    move 4: Substitute / Agility
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Hyper Cutter
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set is Gliscor's best attempt at an offensive set. While this, similarly to Gliscor's defensive sets, might seem outclassed by double booster Landorus-T, Gliscor still has a few advantages over it. One of this set's main selling points is Gliscor's access to STAB Acrobatics. When used with a Flying Gem and backed by STAB, Acrobatics becomes a 247 Base Power attack. At +2, a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics is going to hurt even Pokemon that resist it. While Landorus-T has trouble taking on Celebi, Latios, Breloom, and Hydreigon, Gliscor can OHKO all of them with a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics. Even Rotom-W, one of the best counters to Gliscor, takes a minimum of 75% from it. The other major reason to use this set over Landorus-T is that it's ability, Hyper Cutter, means that it can't be stopped by Intimidate users such as Landorus-T and Gyarados. The former is OHKOed by +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics, and the latter is OHKOed even without Flying Gem. Earthquake is this set's other main STAB and lets Gliscor hit things that resist Acrobatics like Jirachi and Heatran. Substitute lets Gliscor get a free shot in on something faster than it such as Keldeo or Latios. Agility is another option over Substitute, as Gliscor can sweep most sun teams at +2/+2, OHKOing many common sun threats such as Venusaur, something Landorus-T cannot do, as well as Volcarona, Darmanitan, and Victini.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs maximize Gliscor's Attack and Speed, giving it the best shot at sweeping. A Jolly nature is tempting to use on this set, as it lets Gliscor outspeed the standard Ninetales set and Neutral base 100 Pokemon such as Volcarona, but Gliscor really needs the power that Adamant provides, and Substitute protects Gliscor from Ninetales, Volcarona, Salamence, and Jirachi. Furthermore, Gliscor can do serious damage to them with Acrobatics or Earthquake from there. Fire Fang can be used over Earthquake, as it lets Gliscor beat things like Skarmory, which otherwise can set up on or Whirlwind out Gliscor, ending its sweep. But Fire Fang's coverage is generally not as useful as Earthquake's, the drop in power is definitely noticeable, and STAB Earthquake actually hits harder than a super effective Fire Fang. Poison Heal can be used instead of Hyper Cutter, as Gliscor can switch in on a predicted Toxic and recover most of the HP lost from Substitute, but Hyper Cutter is much more useful and Poison Heal is far too situational.</p>

    <p>Starmie is a great partner for AcroBat Gliscor, as it can Rapid Spin the entry hazards that Pokemon such as Skarmory and Forretress might set up and can threaten Jellicent and Politoed with a Life Orb Thunderbolt. Technician Breloom with Focus Punch also deserves a mention, as it can beat Skarmory, Latios, and Latias with a Fighting Gem-boosted Focus Punch and Rotom-W and Jellicent with Bullet Seed. Mixed attackers such as mixed Salamence and mixed Jirachi can lure in common counters to Gliscor such as Hippowdon and Rotom-W and remove them, allowing it to sweep. Gothitelle can trap and KO all of the common counters to Acrobatics Gliscor, including Skarmory and Rotom-W, clearing the way for Gliscor. Thundurus-T is also a great partner, as it takes down bulky Water-type Pokemon and generally breaks holes in the opponent's team, which Gliscor can then take advantage of to clean up.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubPass
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Taunt / Swords Dance / Agility
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>While Gliscor is mainly used as a defensive Pokemon, this set can surprise the opponent by helping you grab momentum, a Substitute, and possibly a few boosts for teammates all with Baton Pass. The main objective of this Gliscor set is to set up a Substitute and then Baton Pass it to a teammate that can then use it to set up. Thanks to Gliscor's fantastic natural bulk, complemented by Poison Heal, and immunities to Electric, Ground, and status moves, it can find many opportunities to do so. Passing a Substitute can also be useful for getting frailer sweepers in without having to take a hit. Lucario, Breloom, Thundurus-T, and other defensively weak setup sweepers find a free switch-in very useful and can set up on common switch-ins to Gliscor such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, Rotom-W, Politoed, and Skarmory. Earthquake is the STAB option of choice, as Gliscor still has the bulk to set up on Choice Scarf Terrakion. The last option is the most important, and it really depends on what your team needs most. Taunt is the primary option, as it prevents Politoed from using Perish Song, Skarmory from using Whirlwind, and Jellicent from using Taunt itself. This will make it much easier for Gliscor to set up a Substitute and pass it along and finds the most use on dedicated Baton Pass teams. However, Swords Dance and Agility are also decent options depending on your team's needs. Swords Dance, when used in tandem with Substitute, can be useful for passing to strong physical attackers such as Breloom, Terrakion, and Lucario in addition to getting them in safely with Substitute. Agility is a more universal boost, as it can be passed to special and physical sweepers alike, including Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Choice Specs and Expert Belt Keldeo, Swords Dance Lucario, Terrakion, and Kyurem-B.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EVs let Gliscor outspeed max Speed Landorus-T, specially defensive Zapdos, and Adamant Lucario, increasing the number of Pokemon that Gliscor can set up a Substitute on. The HP EVs make Gliscor's health a multiple of eight to maximize the HP recovered from Poison Heal, and the rest is put into Defense. In terms of teammates, Gliscor makes an excellent member of any dedicated Baton Pass team, as it has decent Speed for a bulky Pokemon and can block attempts to phaze out your Baton Pass chain with Taunt. Good Baton Pass teammates include Ninjask; Mr. Mime, which can block Perish Song; Espeon, which can block Taunt; and Vaporeon, which resists the Ice-type attacks aimed at Gliscor and is immune to Water-type attacks. Scizor makes a good partner, as it can use either Swords Dance or Agility to complement the move chosen in Gliscor's last slot. On non-Baton Pass teams, Baton Pass Celebi makes a great partner with Gliscor, as it can absorb the Water attacks that Gliscor hates, and Gliscor can pass Substitutes and Agility boosts to Celebi, which can then pass Nasty Plot boosts to Pokemon such as Keldeo and Thundurus-T. Lucario, Terrakion, Breloom, and Salamence all appreciate being able to come in for free thanks to Substitute and appreciate an intact Substitute even more.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Gliscor has a few other useful options. A set using Fling and Acrobatics sounds tempting at first, as Gliscor can poison the opponent and then have a 110 Base Power Flying-type STAB for the remainder of the match, but this is usually inferior to the SubToxic set, as it can only Toxic one Pokemon, after which you have a useless move. Acrobatics should only be used on the AcroBat set, as it has the most damage output there. Facade is another powerful attacking option on some of Gliscor's defensive sets, but STAB Earthquake is usually better, and Gliscor is strapped for move slots anyway. Knock Off is a decent support option, as it can cripple many of the Pokemon that like to switch into Gliscor such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Gengar, Politoed, and Skarmory. But, like Facade, Gliscor has a hard time finding a slot that can be given up for Knock Off, and usually there are better uses for the move slot.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Gliscor is very susceptible to Taunt users, because it relies heavily on passive damage to take down foes. Skarmory is probably the best Gliscor counter, as it is immune to Toxic and Earthquake, resists Acrobatics, takes pitiful damage from Ice Fang, and can Whirlwind out Gliscor that are behind a Substitute. Taunt Gyarados can prevent Gliscor from setting up a Substitute and can proceed to Dragon Dance or Waterfall the switch-in. Sableye can Taunt Gliscor to prevent it from doing anything and Recover stall its Earthquake PP. It can even Will-O-Wisp Gliscor's AcroBat set, and its defensive sets before Toxic Orb has activated. Forretress and Ferrothorn, though unable to do much actual damage, can freely set up entry hazards on any Gliscor that lacks Taunt. Cloyster can OHKO any Gliscor set with Icicle Spear, though it must watch out for Toxic and Taunt. Mamoswine is in a similar boat, as it can do major damage with Icicle Spear as well, though it is not always a guaranteed OHKO because it might only hit twice.</p>

    <p>When not behind a Substitute, Gliscor is much easier to deal with. Because Gliscor has such abysmal Special Defense, any powerful special attacker can do major damage to it. Gengar is one of the better counters to the defensive and SubToxic sets, as Gliscor can only hit Gengar with Ice Fang and Gengar can hit it hard with Shadow Ball or even the occasional Hidden Power Ice. Rotom-W with Hidden Power Ice is immune to Earthquake, resists Acrobatics, and can OHKO all Gliscor sets, though it does have to watch out for Toxic, because it can easily be worn down once poisoned. Air Balloon Heatran is "immune" to Earthquake and Toxic and can OHKO and 2HKO with Hidden Power Ice and Fire Blast, respectively. Thundurus-T can set up on Gliscor that lack Substitute and OHKO with Hidden Power Ice, fearing only Toxic and Ice Fang. Latios and Latias are decent checks, as they are immune to Earthquake, giving them a free switch-in opportunity, and can OHKO with Surf.</p>
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2013
  2. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, I'm done with the basic skeleton. This is ready for QC to look at.
  3. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    QC Approved 1/3

    Do note that your skeleton isn't amazing atm, so ill relook this when its recieved its 2nd QC check so we can see your writing.
  4. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    QC APPROVED (2/3)

    Not sure if the Acrobat set is viable, will get back to you after I test it.
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2013
  5. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, I'll start writing this up and fix any issues you have with the content.
  6. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    72 Spe EVs let you outrun Jolly max Speed Ttar, unlike what you mention. Also why does Gliscor need to outrun those threats anyway? Jirachi is walled if it is SpD anyway, Celebi walls Gliscor and can't really hurt it back anyway and most Tentacruel use a Timid nature anyway from my experience and finally Jolly Ttar is rare. I think that in the last Gliscor thread (SDS's thread) we had agreed to put just enough Speed to outrun Adamant max Speed Scizor and the rest into Defense: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe with an Impish nature. With this bulk CB Terrakion's Stone Edge only 2HKOes 10.16% of the time after SR without counting accuracy and +2 Rock Gem Stone Edge OHKOes only 6.25% of the time.

    Also, the defensive set appreciates Roost much more than Protect as it wants to heal immediately big amounts of damage fast. Definitely slash Roost before Protect. Toxic doesn't need such a heavy emphasis on this set. One slash after Taunt is enough. On the third slot Ice Fang should be the main slash and U-turn should be slashed after it as Gliscor makes for a fantastic pivot.
  7. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, I'll make those changes.
  8. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    I just want to note that with Agility on the AcroBat Glicsor set, you give yourself one of the best win-condition against sun teams available, outspeeding Venusaur and getting free setup fodder on Dugtrio, and Magma Trapper tran etc. gets hit super-effectively by Earthquake, unlike much Dragons
  9. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    True, although double dance Lando-T is miles better as a double dancer and can fuck up sun teams the same way, provided Lando-T holds Soft Sand or LO:
    • 252+ Atk Soft Sand Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 271-321 (84.95 - 100.62%) -- 81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    • 252+ Atk Life Orb Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Venusaur: 294-347 (92.16 - 108.77%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    But yeah, it's an important thing to add when talking about Agility's usefulness.
  10. ogasian

    ogasian

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    Is Gliscor really meant to wall? I think that stall would be a better term, as weakness to water and ice are not that conducive to walling.
  11. Halcyon.

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    Yes? Gliscor is one of the few Pokémon that can put a full stop to Terrakion most of the time. MostWater/Ice attacks are special, so Gliscor shouldn't be taking those hits anyway. It's very capable at stalling (which is why the SubToxic set is the first one), but it is also a solid defensive wall.
  12. ogasian

    ogasian

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    But it only really walls Terrakion, even Banded Breloom can on average 3HKO (I think). Dragonite does a fuck ton with Outrage, can boost up on it if it has Lum, Gyrados completely wrecks it, almost every physical attacker has some method of dealing with it- most Conkeldurr I run into use Ice Punch anyway.
  13. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    It's one of the best counters to Terrakion which is very appreciated on stall teams. It is also a good check to many physical attackers (Lucario, Lando-T, Toxicroak, Garchomp, Scarf Mence and Kyu-B, and Breloom), a good pivot with U-turn and prevents any kind of setup from slower Pokemon with Taunt, something that is very useful for stall teams. I agree that it's not the best defensive Pokemon out there but it does have its uses.
  14. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, sorry it took me this long, but I finished writing up the analysis. This is ready for its final QC check.
  15. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    O.k, this is the type of line I want to cut down on. Its true for instance, that Heatran will scare away Skarmory, but this doesn't stop Skarmory from getting a free switch time and time again on Gliscor, and getting a free layer down, which in turn hampers Heatran and around and around it goes. If I want to eliminate bulky steel types, then ill use powerful resisted moves to force those steel types in, and then force them to take truckloads from my attack. Think like, Specs Latios, Tornadus-I with Hurricane etc etc. I might be alone here, but I just want to cut down on sentences that say words to the effect of "use fires to beat steels lolol" because in an actual battle, this just doesn't happen. Don't take this comment personally btw since its something PKGaming and I have discussed, and it something we want to look at for analysis in future (Hopefully he doesn't mind me name dropping him :/ )
  16. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, I can look at other, more practical Pokémon to help get rid of Skarmory and co. I thought about including Magnezone, but I wasn't sure if having a Pokémon with such a specific niche was a good idea to help a defensive Pokémon. Thanks for the criticism. I'll be sure to make the appropriate changes.
  17. Halcyon.

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    Made the change. I took out Heatran and fire types and added Starmie, Breloom, Gothitelle, and Specs Latios to the teammates section of the AcroBat set. I assume the other times I mention Heatran is ok, since I talk about it from a defensive standpoint, but if not, let me know.
  18. tehy

    tehy

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    Pokemon to lure and beat down Skarmory are great, and I agree with a lot of Ginga's sentiment-too often do we say "x deals with x", except the former switches out and comes back in later and infinite cycle, but I do have to say this.

    When you have a X (Gliscor), you give Y (Skarmory) a free switch-in. Therefore, it's imperative that you have something capable of beating it 1v1, because if all you have for it is lures capable of 2HKOing as it comes in or boosting and punching a hole, you're going to have serious problems with Skarmory. There does need to be a greater focus on luring, yes, but don't just throw out stuff like Heatran because it'll switch out-sometimes, that's the very effect you wish to create.

    By the way, the two kind of go hand in hand-X fire type forces out skarmory, X lure forces it in and trashes it. But if there's no force-out, this plan fails a bit

    I personally don't like Latios for a Skarmory lure, because it's just not something I would switch my Skarmory into unless something has gone very, very wrong. (Especially with a spikesbait gliscor), but i guess it can lure in SpD skarmory.

    Maybe mention SD fight gem Haxorus? That's a brutal skarmory/other steels lure, and it kind of breaks apart physical walls as well, which Gliscor must appreciate, if only marginally.
  19. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, I can replace Latios with something else. I'm hesitant about SD Fighting Gem Haxorus, though. Is that set really relevant? I'm not saying it's bad, or that I won't include it if OC thinks I should, I've just never seen it, so I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning. What about MixMence? It can lure and KO all sorts of Gliscor counters like Skarmory and Forretress with Fire Blast and a Dragon Gem can bluff the Scarf so that you can lure in Rotom-W after you Fire Blast or Earthquake and then KO with Draco Meteor. I didn't include it because having both on one team makes you really weak to Ice, especially Mamoswine, Keldeo, and Starmie. But it does lure in Gliscor's counters well.
  20. dadoux

    dadoux

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    Mixed / SuperCM Jirachi is actually a really solid teammate to the Acrobat one, wrecking Hippowdown, Jellicent with Grass knot and Skarmory with thunderbolt, should me mentionned, great job btw !
  21. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Ok, I'll add in Mixed Jirachi to the list of teammates. Are there any other suggestions/problems QC has with the writeup?
  22. alexwolf

    alexwolf Fear the D
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    Mention some of those threats.

    Also, in the overview you left out Gliscor's main niche over Lando-T, the SubToxic set so mention this first when talking about Gliscor's qualities.

    I also don't like the wording of the second paragraph in the overview. For example:

    Those are two sentences that say exactly the same thing. Why not explain how its Ice-type weakness hinders it by making it unable to deal with major physical threats (Mamoswine, Lucario, Conkeldurr) and various special attackers?

    The main reason why Landorus-T is better as an offensive pivot is that Intimidate helps the whole team and that very little things can setup on Landorus-T, while Gliscor is huge setup bait it doesn't have Taunt. Add those information. Finally, mention Gliscor's flagship set in the closing sentence, SubToxic, arguably the biggest reason to use Gliscor in the first place.

    Gliscor can just OHKO Lucario with EQ after SR.

    You obviously meant that they pose no offensive threat to Gliscor.

    I don't see how it is more of a problem than other types as you can easily Toxic stall it provided it switches into you. If you meant that Gliscor had a harder time against it 1-on-1 then explain why.

    You didn't mention that sand helps Gliscor by adding residual damage to many Pokemon, in top of the Toxic damage.

    Add Magnezone in the AC of the first set to deal with Steel-types. Also when talking about Celebi mention how it doesn't only help against Rotom-W but the various faster special attackers that threaten Gliscor such as Scarf Politoed, Keldeo, Thundurus-T, and Starmie.

    On the defensive set i told you to slash Roost before Protect so please do that. Also when talking about things that set apart Gliscor from Landorus-T mention Taunt and immunity to Jirachi's Body Slam too, which are both very important traits.

    On the Acrobatics set, in order to better illustrate why to use Gliscor over Landorus-T just mention some Pokemon that Gliscor can get past that Landorus-T struggles, such as Breloom, Celebi, Latios, and Hydreigon. Also, Gliscor can OHKO Venusaur while Landorus-T cannot, making it a major threat for many sun teams after their Forretress / Lando-T / Cresselia has been weakened, provided Gliscor has Agility.

    That's it for now, if i missed anything i will come back to you. Good job!

    [​IMG]
    QC Approved 3/3
  23. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Thanks so much alexwolf! And my bad about the Roost / Protect thing. I thought I had already fixed it. Anyway, I implemented all the changes, so this is ready for GP to look at it!
  24. melvni

    melvni
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    I'm not working on checking this now, but before you implement any GP checks that you get, please copypaste this. It's what you have now with the curly apostrophes changed to straight ones. For the future, the OP of this thread explains how to stop this from happening in Word if that's what you're using.
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    [Overview]

    <p> Since its release in the fourth generation, Gliscor has been one of OU's premier physical walls. It's stellar defensive typing gives it a useful resistance to Fighting-type moves and an immunity to Ground-type moves, making it a decent check to Pokemon like Terrakion, Breloom, Landorus-T, and Lucario. Though BW2 brought with it a whole host of new threats for Gliscor, such as Keldeo and Technician Breloom, as well as solid competition in the form of Landorus-T, it still manages to find a solid niche as one of the best physical walls in OU. Gliscor has a few advantages that set it aside from Landorus-T, such as its amazing ability, Poison Heal, which lets it recover 12.5% of its health at the end of every turn when poisoned. BW2 move tutors gave it Roost, which means its defensive set can recover an enormous 62.5% in one turn with Poison Heal. It can also make use of Baton Pass to give its teammates Substitutes or Swords Dance and Agility boosts, or it can go offensive with an Acrobatics set. </p>

    <p> However, Gliscor does have plenty of problems as well. Its lackluster HP and special defense stats mean that even weak special attacks will be doing major damage to Gliscor. Its four times weakness to Ice-type moves is also a hinderance. This means that some physical Pokemon, like Lucario, Mamoswine, and Conkeldurr, can use Ice-type coverage to break through Gliscor without much difficulty. Gliscor also faces major competition from Landorus-T, which, thanks to its Ability Intimidate, is bulkier, and it's offensive pivot set is better suited for the current metagame. Despite these flaws, Gliscor's SubToxic set still makes it a formidable opponent, and it deserves to be considered on any defensively oriented team. </p>

    [SET]
    name: SubToxic
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Toxic
    move 3: Protect / Roost / Taunt
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> This set sits at the pinnacle of OU stall. By holding a Toxic Orb, Gliscor essentially gets two rounds of Leftovers recovery at the end of each turn. This means that Gliscor can recover all of the health lost from creating a Substitute in only two turns. Combined with Protect, it can continually alternate between Substitute and Protect while Toxic slowly wears down the opposing Pokémon's HP. Protect also lets it stall out your opponent's PP, meaning Pokemon that rely on low PP moves to hit Gliscor like Rotom-W's Hydro Pump will not be able to take you down. This Gliscor set finds it easy to switch in on Choice-locked Pokemon like Terrakion locked into Close Combat and Garchomp locked into Earthquake, giving it a free opportunity to set up a Substitute. Once Gliscor gets behind a Substitute, it becomes much harder to KO. Only multi-hit moves like Icicle Spear or Bullet Seed can break its Sub while also doing actual damage to Gliscor itself. Earthquake gives Gliscor a STAB move to hit Pokemon that are immune to Toxic such as Heatran, Lucario, and Jirachi. Roost and Taunt are viable options to use over Protect. Roost lets you recover large amounts of health if Gliscor has been weakened though the course of the battle. This is especially useful in tandem with Poison Heal, since you can recover 2/3 of your health in one turn. Using Taunt means you won't be setup bait for hazards setters like Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn, and can prevent slower Taunt users such as Jellicent from stopping your stall cold. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> Gliscor's EVs allow it to outspeed max speed Landorus-T, as well as Specially Defensive Zapdos, and Adamant Lucario. With this Speed, Gliscor can OHKO Lucario with Earthquake after Stealth Rock, and can alternate between Substitute and Protect until Zapdos and Landorus-T run out of Hidden Power Ice and Stone Edge PP, respectively. The EVs also make Gliscor's HP reach a multiple of 8, which means it will gain the maximum amount of health possible from Poison Heal. The rest is put into Defense to maximize its physical bulk. </p>

    <p> Gliscor has a problem beating a lot of defensive Steel-types. While, Forretress, Skarmory, and Ferrothorn pose no offensive threat to it, Gliscor can't do much to them either. In return, they can set up Spikes, Stealth Rock, or Whirlwind in Skarmory's case. Because of this, Gliscor appreciates a strong Fire-type to eliminate these threats before trying to stall. Magnezone is also a great partner, since it can trap and KO all of the Steel-types mentioned above. Rotom-W with HP Ice can also be a problem for Gliscor 1 on 1, since it can only be hurt through Toxic damage, and those that carry Rest will be impossible to take down. Because of this, Celebi can make a great partner as well. It can tank many of the special attackers that threaten Gliscor, such as Starmie, Keldeo, Scarf Politoed, Latios, and Thundurus-T. Heatran, Celebi, and Gliscor make an excellent defensive core, covering all of each other's weaknesses. Good teammates also include Tyranitar and Abomasnow, since Gliscor appreciates the added damage that sand and hail bring. Gliscor fits well into both of these weathers, with each having advantages over the other. In hail, Gliscor still gains 6% of its health back when poisoned, while most of its opponents will lose additional health. Sand allows you to recover your full 12.5%, but there are many more Pokémon immune to sand damage than hail damage. Sand damage, in addition to Toxic damage, will quickly rack up, and can make Toxic stalling much easier for Gliscor. Tentacruel makes an excellent partner for Gliscor, since they have great synergy and Tentacruel can provide Toxic Spikes support, which means Gliscor won't have to waste a turn poisoning the opponent. </p>

    [SET]
    name: Defensive
    move 1: Earthquake
    move 2: Taunt / Toxic
    move 3: Ice Fang / U-turn
    move 4: Roost / Protect
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 236 Def / 16 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> With this set, Gliscor takes advantage of its fantastic defensive typing and above average bulk to put a stop to many of the physical attacker of OU. For example, it is one of the few Pokémon in OU that can reliably switch into Choice Band Terrakion, having only a 6% chance of being 2HKO'd by Stone Edge after Strealth Rock. At first glance, this set may seem to be outclassed by Landorus-T, but Gliscor still has one major advantage that sets it apart from it: reliable recovery. Not only does Gliscor get Poison Heal to recover 12.5% of its HP at the end of each turn, but it also has Roost, which lets it recover a monstrous 62.5%. This alone sets it apart from Landorus-T, which suffers from a lack of reliable recovery. In addition, Gliscor is immune to Status, which means that it can safely wall Jirachi, and doesn't fear switching into Will-O-Wisp or Spore. Its access to Taunt also sets it appart, meaning slower defensive threats can't set up on it. Earthquake is your main STAB move, and it lets you hit the likes of Terrakion for super-effective damage. Because Gliscor has decent speed for a wall, Taunt is a good option for the second slot. It allows you to shut down most other common walls that rely on support moves, and prevents things like Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn from setting up hazards on you, and Swords Dance Scizor from boosting. Toxic is another option, which lets Gliscor wear down bulky Water types such as Politoed, Rotom-W, and Jellicent, which love to switch in on Gliscor and can O-2HKO you with Hydro Pump or Scald. Ice Fang lets you do damage back to things like Scarf Salamence and Garchomp after you tank their Outrage. It also gives you a way of hitting Breloom, which otherwise can set up a Swords Dance and KO you with Bullet Seed. However, U-turn is another option to make Gliscor a defensive pivot for your team, grabbing momentum from the physical attackers that will switch out when you come in. Protect is a decent option over Roost, since it lets you scout Choice-locked special attackers that can switch in on Gliscor such as Keldeo and Latios. It also helps to wear down the opponent if they have been poisoned, though the Sub Toxic set is usually better at doing this. This set makes a great addition to any hail team, which commonly have problems with Terrakion and other Fighting-types. In addition, Gliscor has a pseudo-immunity to hail, as it still recovers 6% of its health at the end of every turn. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> The given EV spread lets you outrun Adamant max Speed Scizor to prevent it from setting up with Taunt. The HP investment makes your health a multiple of 8 so you regain the maximum amount of HP from Poison Heal possible. The rest is put into its Defense. If your team desperately needs a Pokémon to set Stealth Rock, Gliscor can opt for that over Taunt, but it really appreciates the ability to shut down slower defensive Pokémon. </p>

    <p> As always, Heatran and Celebi make great partners for Gliscor, as they all cover each other's weaknesses perfectly and Gliscor's physically defensive spread compliments their specially defensive ones well. Rotom-W can also make a good teammate, since it can form a VoltTurn core with Gliscor, and tanks all the rain-boosted Water-type attacks and x4 effective Ice-type attacks aimed at Gliscor. Tyranitar also makes a great partner for Gliscor, since Gliscor resists Tyranitar's x4 weakness to Fighting, and Tyranitar can provide sand support to further wear down the opponents that Gliscor is walling. Tyranitar can also eliminate Latios and Latias, which can otherwise be troublesome for Gliscor. </p>

    [SET]
    name: AcroBat
    move 1: Acrobatics
    move 2: Earthquake
    move 3: Swords Dance
    move 4: Substitute / Agility
    item: Flying Gem
    ability: Hyper Cutter
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> This set is Gliscor's best attempt at an offensive set. While this, like Gliscor's defensive sets, might seem outclassed by Double Booster Landorus-T, Gliscor still has a few advantages over the Therian. One of this set's main selling points is Gliscor's access to STAB Acrobatics. When used with a Flying Gem and STAB, Acrobatics becomes a 247 base power attack. At +2, a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics is going to hurt even Pokémon that resist it. While Landorus-T has trouble taking on Celebi, Latios, Breloom, and Hydreigon, Gliscor can OHKO all of them with a Flying Gem-boosted Acrobatics. Even Rotom-W, one of the best counters to Gliscor takes a minimum of 75% from it. The other major reason to use this set over Landorus-T is that it's ability, Hyper Cutter, means that it can't be stopped by Intimidate users like Landorus-T and Gyarados. The former is OHKO'd by +2 Flying Gem Acrobatics, and the latter is OHKO'd even without Flying Gem. Earthquake is your other main STAB, and lets you hit things that resist Acrobatics like Jirachi and Heatran. Substitute lets Gliscor get a free shot in on something faster than it like Keldeo or Latios. Agility is another option over Substitute, since Gliscor can sweep most sun teams at +2/+2, OHKOing many common sun threats like Venusaur, something Landorus-T cannot do, as well as Volcarona, Darmanitan, and Victini. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> The EVs maximize Gliscor's attack and speed, giving you the best shot at sweeping. A Jolly nature is tempting to use on this set, since it lets you out-speed the standard Ninetales set and Neutral base 100 Pokémon like Volcarona, but Gliscor really needs the power that Adamant provides, and Substitute protects you from Ninetales, Volcarona, Salamence, and Jirachi, and you can do serious damage to them with Acrobatics/Earthquake from there. Fire Fang can be used over Earthquake, since it lets you beat things like Skarmory, which otherwise can set up on Whirlwind out Gliscor, ending your sweep. But Fire Fang's coverage is generally not as useful as Earthquakes, and the drop in power is definitely noticeable, and STAB Earthquake actually hits harder than a super-effective Fire Fang. Poison Heal can be used instead of Hyper Cutter, since it can switch in on a predicted Toxic and recover most of the HP lost from Substitute, but Hyper Cutter is much more useful and Poison Heal his far too situational.</p>

    <p>Starmie is a great partner for AcroBat, since it can Rapid Spin the hazards that Skarmory or Forretress might set up on Gliscor, and can threaten Jellicent and Politoed with a Life Orb Thunderbolt. Technician Breloom with Focus Punch also deserves a mention, since it can beat Skarmory, Latios, and Latias with a Fighting Gem-boosted Focus Punch, and Rotom-W and Jellicent with Bullet Seed. Mixed attackers like Mixed Salamence and Mixed Jirachi can lure in common counters to Gliscor such as Hippowdon and Rotom-W and remove them, allowing Gliscor to sweep. Gothitelle can trap and KO all of the common counters to Acrobatics Gliscor such as Skarmory and Rotom-W, clearing the way for Gliscor. Thundurus-T can also be a great partner, since it takes down bulky Water-type Pokémon, and generally breaks holes in the opponent's team, which Gliscor can then take advantage of to clean up. </p>

    [SET]
    name: SubPass
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Baton Pass
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Taunt / Swords Dance / Agility
    item: Toxic Orb
    ability: Poison Heal
    nature: Impish
    evs: 244 HP / 40 Def / 224 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p> While Gliscor is mainly used as a defensive Pokémon, this set can surprise the opponent by helping you grab momentum, a Substitute, and possibly a few boosts for teammates all with Baton Pass. The main objective of this Gliscor set is to set up a Substitute and the Baton Pass it to a teammate who can then use it to set up. And thanks to Gliscor's fantastic natural bulk, complemented by Poison Heal, and immunities to Electric, Ground, and status moves, Gliscor can find many opportunities to do so. Passing a Substitute can also be useful for getting frailer sweepers in without having to take a hit. Lucario, Breloom, Thundurus-T, and other defensively-weak setup sweepers find a free switch-in very useful, and can set up on common switch-ins to Gliscor such as Ferrothorn, Forretress, Rotom-W, Politoed, and Skarmory. Earthquake is the STAB option of choice, since you still have the bulk to set up on Scarf Terrakion. The last option is the most important, and it really depends on what your team needs most. Taunt is the primary option, since it prevents Politoed from using Perish Song, Skarmory from using Whirlwind, and Jellicent from using Taunt itself. This will make it much easier for you to set up a Substitute and pass it along, and finds the most use on dedicated Baton Pass teams. However, Swords Dance and Agility are also decent options depending on your team's needs. Swords Dance, when used in tandem with Substitute, can be useful for passing to strong physical attackers like Breloom, Terrakion, and Lucario in addition to getting them in safely with Substitute. Agility is a more universal boost, as it can be passed to special and physical sweepers alike, including Nasty Plot Thundurus-T, Specs or Expert Belt Keldeo, Swords Dance Lucario, Terrakion, and Kyurem-B. </p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p> The given EVs let Gliscor out-speed max speed Landorus-T, Specially Defensive Zapdos, and Adamant Lucario, increasing the number of Pokémon that Gliscor can set up a Substitute. The HP EVs give your health a multiple of 8 to maximize the HP recovered from Poison Heal, and the rest is put into Defense. In terms of teammates, Gliscor makes an excellent member of any dedicated Baton Pass team, since it has decent Speed for a bulky Pokémon, and can block attempts to phaze out your Baton Pass chain with Taunt. Good Baton Pass teammates include Ninjask; Mr. Mime, which can block Perish Song; Espeon, which can block Taunt; Vaporeon, which resists the Ice-type attacks aimed at Gliscor, and is immune to Water-type attacks. Scizor makes a good partner, since it can use either Swords Dance or Agility to complement the move chosen in the last slot. On non-Baton Pass teams, Baton Pass Celebi makes a great partner with Gliscor, since it can absorb the Water attacks that Gliscor hates, and Gliscor can pass Substitutes and Agility boosts to Celebi, who can then pass Nasty Plot boosts to Pokémon like Keldeo and Thudurus-T. Lucario, Terrakion, Breloom, and Salamence all appreciate being able to come in for free thanks to Substitute, and appreciate an intact Substitute even more. </p>

    [Other Options]

    <p> Gliscor has a few other useful options. A set using Fling and Acrobatics sounds tempting at first, since you can poison the opponent and then have a base 110 Flying type STAB for the remainder of the match, but this is usually inferior to the SubToxic set, since you can only poison one Pokémon, after which you have a useless move. Acrobatics should only be used on the AcroBat set, since it has the most damage output. Facade is another powerful attacking option on some of Gliscor's defensive sets, but STAB Earthquake is usually better, and Gliscor is strapped for move slots anyway. It really doesn't have room for Facade. Knock Off is a decent support option, since it can cripple man of the Pokémon that like to switch into Gliscor such as Rotom-W, Jellicent, Gengar, Politoed, and Skarmory. But, like Facade, Gliscor has a hard time finding a slot that can be given up for Knock Off, and usually there are better uses of the move slot. </p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p> Gliscor is very susceptible to Taunt users, because it relies heavily on passive damage to take down foes. Skarmory is probably the best Gliscor counter, as it is immune to Toxic and Earthquake, resists Acrobatics, takes pitiful damage from Ice Fang, and can Whirlwind out Gliscor that are behind a Substitute. Taunt Gyarados can prevent Gliscor from setting up a Substitute and can proceed to Dragon Dance or Waterfall the switch-in. Sableye can Taunt Gliscor to prevent it from doing anything and Recover stall its Earthquake PP. It can even Will-O-Wisp Gliscor's AcroBat set, or its defensive sets before Toxic Orb has activated. Forretress and Ferrothorn, though unable to do much actual damage to Gliscor, can freely set up hazards on any Gliscor that lacks Taunt. Cloyster can OHKO any Gliscor set with Icicle Spear, though it must watch out for Toxic or Taunt. Mamoswine is in a similar boat, as it can do major damage with Icicle Spear as well, though it is not always a guaranteed OHKO since it might only hit twice.</p>

    <p> When not behind a Substitute, Gliscor is much easier to deal with. Because Glicor has such abysmal special defense, any powerful special attacker can do major damage to Gliscor. Gengar is one of the better counters to the Defensive and SubToxic sets, since Gliscor can only hit Gengar with Ice Fang, and Gengar can hit it hard with Shadow Ball, or even the occasional Hidden Power Ice. Rotom-W with Hidden Power Ice is immune to Earthquake, resists Acrobatics, and can OHKO all Gliscor sets, though it does have to watch out for Toxic, because it can easily be worn down once poisoned. Air Balloon Heatran is "immune" to Earthquake and Toxic and can OHKO or 2HKO with Hidden Power Ice or Fire Blast, respectively. Thundurus-T can set up on Gliscor that lack Substitute, and OHKO with Hidden Power Ice, fearing only Toxic and Ice Fang. Latios and Latias are decent checks, as they are immune to Earthquake, giving them a free switch-in opportunity, and can OHKO with Surf.</p>

  25. Halcyon.

    Halcyon. Come on, she's not burned; she's just gone.
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    Thanks melvni. I made the change, and I'll remember that for future analyses.

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