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Glitched Weather in English Platinum [Part 2, Clearer Video] (Update March 18, 2009)
- Thread starter EeveeTrainer
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It certainly would (though, there would be opposition, so maybe "should" is the better word).
If it's a game breaking mechanic, there'll be measure to prevent it. In your case, rain dance would probably be banned (ubers would go to hell O_O). OHKO and Evasion are good examples; though not glitches, they're examples of mechanics in the game (that's the kicker) that harm competitive battling.
If it's a game breaking mechanic, there'll be measure to prevent it. In your case, rain dance would probably be banned (ubers would go to hell O_O). OHKO and Evasion are good examples; though not glitches, they're examples of mechanics in the game (that's the kicker) that harm competitive battling.
Wait, the original Japanese games had them being hurt by their ability. Was that only in 'acid sun' (since the only damaging abilities are Solar Charge and Dry Skin)?
No, that happened when all 4 weathers were going at once, which I believe was dubbed "Acid Hail".
Anybody speed through the US version and test this yet?
To include something that was not purposely intended into a simulator all the while restricting and/or banning things that WERE intended (Garchomp, Double Team, etc) is foolish. At some point a decision will have to be made: is this a site for competitive Pokémon or competitive Pokèmon?
And yes, accents change a word.
To include something that was not purposely intended into a simulator all the while restricting and/or banning things that WERE intended (Garchomp, Double Team, etc) is foolish. At some point a decision will have to be made: is this a site for competitive Pokémon or competitive Pokèmon?
And yes, accents change a word.
Plus hosted it, but both him and I were using the Platinum English ROM so I don't see how it could've been wrong.
Nj (or however your name is written), can you provide a video? Maybe it happened because both of the Pokemon were leads, or because you were fighting a Diamond player?
The glitch is CONFIRMED TO OCCUR in the USA version of Pokemon Platinum when the Pursuit user is hosting the battle. You can watch for yourself by downloading GTS battle recording # 54-24022-45289. This battle took place between two Pokemon Platinum USA carts and the Pursuit user WAS hosting the battle.
The glitch is CONFIRMED TO NOT OCCUR in the USA version of Pokemon Platinum when the Pursuit user is NOT hosting the battle. You can watch for yourself by downloading GTS battle recording # 34-16068-31271. This battle took place between two Pokemon Platinum USA carts and the Pursuit user WAS NOT hosting the battle.
So essentially, the Pursuit user needs to be hosting the battle in order for the glitch to occur.
The glitch is CONFIRMED TO NOT OCCUR in the USA version of Pokemon Platinum when the Pursuit user is NOT hosting the battle. You can watch for yourself by downloading GTS battle recording # 34-16068-31271. This battle took place between two Pokemon Platinum USA carts and the Pursuit user WAS NOT hosting the battle.
So essentially, the Pursuit user needs to be hosting the battle in order for the glitch to occur.
So, we don't have Rotom-App, Skymin and Giratina-O available on Wi-Fi, but we have a shitty weather bug that I can't even begin to imagine how the hell they managed to implement? Great.
The AR code that lets you use the new forms on Wifi is out for the US Platinum. Apparently, this new code has fixed the problem with Giratina-O so now it can also be used on Wifi. Unless of course, you're talking about not being able to use them without the code then nevermind.
McSpam and I tested this with my new American Platinum. I hosted the battle, set up Sandstorm, and set up the Acid Rain. We were curious to see if it acted like Rain or not, so we ran a couple tests.
Test 1: His Kingdra had a speed of 248, and my Jumpluff had a speed of 350. When in the Acid Rain, Kingdra outsped with Swift Swim, reaching 496 speed.
Test 2: McSpam sent out Magmar, 216 Special Defense, with 257 HP. After one turn of Acid Rain, it was left with 225 HP. I sent out a Chimchar with 146 Sp. Attack. In normal weather, Ember from Chimchar does 15-18 damage to Magmar. In Rain, the same attack does 7-9 damage to Magmar. In our test, the attack did 9 damage, falling under the Rain catagory.
From our test, it can be concluded that Acid Rain also enables Swift Swim and halves the power of Fire type moves. I assume it also boosts the power of Water type moves, but I have no proof for this.
Test 1: His Kingdra had a speed of 248, and my Jumpluff had a speed of 350. When in the Acid Rain, Kingdra outsped with Swift Swim, reaching 496 speed.
Test 2: McSpam sent out Magmar, 216 Special Defense, with 257 HP. After one turn of Acid Rain, it was left with 225 HP. I sent out a Chimchar with 146 Sp. Attack. In normal weather, Ember from Chimchar does 15-18 damage to Magmar. In Rain, the same attack does 7-9 damage to Magmar. In our test, the attack did 9 damage, falling under the Rain catagory.
From our test, it can be concluded that Acid Rain also enables Swift Swim and halves the power of Fire type moves. I assume it also boosts the power of Water type moves, but I have no proof for this.
And, the fact that it's kind of unlikely can be factored in, too. This can be prevented by making a rule that if you're using Pursuit, you can't host. (Only if you have a Tyranitar or something that sets up Sandstorm, too, of course)
I mean, it can be prevented. It's not like it's there all the time.
And, I still think that it's a version compatibility issue or something. I mean, I don't think it works in every combination of games. (As in, combination of Platinum/Jap Platinum/Platinum Rom/Jap Platinum Rom/English Patch Rom with either Diamond or Pearl)
And, we can rule out the English Patch because that probably has a bunch of glitches anyways.
I mean, it can be prevented. It's not like it's there all the time.
And, I still think that it's a version compatibility issue or something. I mean, I don't think it works in every combination of games. (As in, combination of Platinum/Jap Platinum/Platinum Rom/Jap Platinum Rom/English Patch Rom with either Diamond or Pearl)
And, we can rule out the English Patch because that probably has a bunch of glitches anyways.
it keeps changing forms never ending
i still stand by the camp of this souldn't be put in shoddy its just dumb to add a glitch that has been shown to be potentally broken and a major potenal negative impact on competive battling *only 100% way to avoid the acid weather damage is magic guard clefable line* its nothing like the all the battle mechanic bugs in RBY.
So a pedant's creative solutions to this problem. I have been thinking about this for awhile and thought it would be better to post here than on my blog.
1. Make Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (with tradebacks) or Pokémon Battle Revolution the "official simulated cartridge" of the 4th generation.
This would require a few changes, notably, Trick switching back to the way it was before, and the complete disappearance of Skymin and Rotom-A. The advantage of this would be that we're still simulating _a_ Pokémon game, Pursuit's still around, and Hypnosis is 70% accurate again! A further advantage to making PBR the "official simulated cartridge" of Gen 4: We can finally use "but it failed!" type clauses in ShoddyBattle and still simulate the game.
2. Ban Pursuit.
This solution is a lot lamer than the other one simply because most of our banlist was decided on this move and we might need to re-evaluate several Pokémon, but we get to keep Rotom-A and Skymin.
1. Make Pokémon Diamond and Pearl (with tradebacks) or Pokémon Battle Revolution the "official simulated cartridge" of the 4th generation.
This would require a few changes, notably, Trick switching back to the way it was before, and the complete disappearance of Skymin and Rotom-A. The advantage of this would be that we're still simulating _a_ Pokémon game, Pursuit's still around, and Hypnosis is 70% accurate again! A further advantage to making PBR the "official simulated cartridge" of Gen 4: We can finally use "but it failed!" type clauses in ShoddyBattle and still simulate the game.
2. Ban Pursuit.
This solution is a lot lamer than the other one simply because most of our banlist was decided on this move and we might need to re-evaluate several Pokémon, but we get to keep Rotom-A and Skymin.
And Giratina-O...
Perhaps, then, since no one "hosts" a battle on Shoddy (remember, both people usually click on Ladder and wait for a battle to simply start, meaning its "mutual" or "simultaneous"), then this glitch shouldn't occur on Shoddy.
The exception is when the odd player specifically challenges the opponent when, say they are waiting for the ladder to start a new battle, then I would assume the challenger would be the "host", (same for Netbattle Supremacy).
Either way, the 3rd solution, due to Shoddy's implemented Ladder feature, is to assume all battles will start through "Ladder", and therefore there is no "host", thus the weather, according to the cartridge rule of requiring a "host" being the only player able to start the glitched weather, will never occur.
Issue solved?
[In other words, bypass worries by making it on Shoddy where glitched weather only happens when a person chooses to "Challenge" a player on the members list who accepts, and that same person who has challenged someone else uses weather and a Pursuit user. To avoid this, players can simply decline any challenges and use the "Ladder" system. Players who feel more connected to staying "true to the cartridge" can choose to accept challenges from others with the risk of having glitched weather occur instead of using the Ladder system.]
Additionally there can be separate Modified servers which include this glitch into their servers, without affecting the program as a whole (or if its implemented in the program itself, have servers that are modified to not include this glitch).
Perhaps, then, since no one "hosts" a battle on Shoddy (remember, both people usually click on Ladder and wait for a battle to simply start, meaning its "mutual" or "simultaneous"), then this glitch shouldn't occur on Shoddy.
The exception is when the odd player specifically challenges the opponent when, say they are waiting for the ladder to start a new battle, then I would assume the challenger would be the "host", (same for Netbattle Supremacy).
Either way, the 3rd solution, due to Shoddy's implemented Ladder feature, is to assume all battles will start through "Ladder", and therefore there is no "host", thus the weather, according to the cartridge rule of requiring a "host" being the only player able to start the glitched weather, will never occur.
Issue solved?
[In other words, bypass worries by making it on Shoddy where glitched weather only happens when a person chooses to "Challenge" a player on the members list who accepts, and that same person who has challenged someone else uses weather and a Pursuit user. To avoid this, players can simply decline any challenges and use the "Ladder" system. Players who feel more connected to staying "true to the cartridge" can choose to accept challenges from others with the risk of having glitched weather occur instead of using the Ladder system.]
Additionally there can be separate Modified servers which include this glitch into their servers, without affecting the program as a whole (or if its implemented in the program itself, have servers that are modified to not include this glitch).
Taking out the host feature is in no way simulating the game. You're tring to change mechanics by doing that. The only "3rd party" (which I'm guessing you're suggesting with the Ladder) is PBR, which excludes Platinum forms.
Just a humorous side note: If Latios makes OU (don't turn this into a Latios chat) and Pursuit is banned, simply lol
Just a humorous side note: If Latios makes OU (don't turn this into a Latios chat) and Pursuit is banned, simply lol
Bubble Kingdra FTW lol.
Something I'd like to point out is that if Shoddy's meant to be true to the cartridges, why are the other forms of stuff usable? Surely I'm not the only one to see a problem with having to use a code to use a specific Pokemon.
Also, if simulators are meant to replicate cartridges so much, how come I've never heard of Missingno in RBY simulators? I don't want to see any "Missingno is harmful" answers, I've caught many of those things and they never killed any files. The worst I've seen happen is freezing from fighting glitchy trainers. I've even used a Kangaskhan that evolved from 'M as a HM slave.
Shoddy isn't designed like the cartridges in the sense that it already implements a different kind of challenge system through its Ladder. So, if one were to find a way around this issue one could argue "In Ladder battles, there is no host, so there is no need to implement this into Shoddy due to the fact that both battlers are mutually and simultaneously agreeing to battle because the server itself is the host".
Or "Since hosting doesn't occur during ladder matches, the weather glitch should only occur on NB Supremacy where the battles require someone to Challenge another player, or in Shoddy where people challenge opponents individually instead of using Ladder. Then the challenger would be the 'host', and only then would the glitch be plausible, for after all, there must be a host for the glitch to occur, while other players could still avoid the glitch on Shoddy 'Ladder' based on the technicality that ladder matches do no have a 'host'..."
Either way, this would mean players are still staying true to the cartridges, while at the same time not forcing everyone to have to deal with the weather glitch (one could avoid the weather altogether without going against the cartridges by using the Ladder system on Shoddy, since there is no designated "host" for Ladder battles, and therefore the weather wouldn't need to occur in the first place).
Anyways, how would one implement weather glitches into Shoddy Ladder matches, since by the rules of cartridges (and this thread is discussing how to stay true to the cartridge game play), the weather can only occur when Pursuit+Weather is done by the "host", (who is the host in ladder matches, and would Ladder matches allow either player to start the weather?)
I am not so much as arguing anyone's point, I am simply pointing at a very obvious, yet forgotten loophole (ladder matches don't have hosts, so they should be 'immune' to the glitch) that would allow this question of staying true to the cartridge to be fairly examined and answered.
Or "Since hosting doesn't occur during ladder matches, the weather glitch should only occur on NB Supremacy where the battles require someone to Challenge another player, or in Shoddy where people challenge opponents individually instead of using Ladder. Then the challenger would be the 'host', and only then would the glitch be plausible, for after all, there must be a host for the glitch to occur, while other players could still avoid the glitch on Shoddy 'Ladder' based on the technicality that ladder matches do no have a 'host'..."
Either way, this would mean players are still staying true to the cartridges, while at the same time not forcing everyone to have to deal with the weather glitch (one could avoid the weather altogether without going against the cartridges by using the Ladder system on Shoddy, since there is no designated "host" for Ladder battles, and therefore the weather wouldn't need to occur in the first place).
Anyways, how would one implement weather glitches into Shoddy Ladder matches, since by the rules of cartridges (and this thread is discussing how to stay true to the cartridge game play), the weather can only occur when Pursuit+Weather is done by the "host", (who is the host in ladder matches, and would Ladder matches allow either player to start the weather?)
I am not so much as arguing anyone's point, I am simply pointing at a very obvious, yet forgotten loophole (ladder matches don't have hosts, so they should be 'immune' to the glitch) that would allow this question of staying true to the cartridge to be fairly examined and answered.
The only solution if people do decide to implement the glitch (which violates every shred of common sense I possess) is to ban Pursuit, because the ladder in its current form cannot choose a host without making battle conditions unequal between the two players, which is fundamentally uncompetitive. Which is probably going to require a re-working of the OU tier, at least as far as Lati@s are concerned.
However, if people are really clamoring to support this, then I think Smogon's fundamental competitive philosophy needs to seriously be re-examined.
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