1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Go Sub Genosect! AN annoying team

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by YAYtears, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    After playing stall for so long, having moderate success with it, I got tired of it, so I wanted to try out Dream World based on sub sect. With Shandera being voted OU in PO, and to a lesser extent Smogon, many people were sayin genosect got nerfed. However, I found a way to get past that. Give it substitute!
    Team building Process
    Show Hide
    First, I wanted to use SUB sect because I was bored.
    [​IMG]
    Then, I wanted SR and spikes to secure the KOs of it, and genosect by itself forces many switches. I tested many for this spot, but deoxys-S worked for me.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Also, because my subsect doesn't carry flamethrower, I decided to have shandera to cover its gaps in its coverage.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Because Subsect was kinda slow, I decided to have para support. Dragonite joined my team, and it became my tank.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    To handle rain teams and sandstorm teams, I added CM birijiron too.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Because I absolutely hated Latios, I had to add CB ttar.This was my team for like, 2 days.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Later, I noticed that ttar wasn't doing much, so I replaced it with azumarill, who helped a lot against many sandstorm sweepers. This is my current team.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4Hp/252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    Deoxys is my hazard lead. It functions well against most other leads. I run shadow ball for other espeon. Deoxys prevents rocks from being on the field because my team has 2 SR weaknesses, and sets up rocks to scout for shed shell so Shandera can trap them. Tyranitar is a problem, as I'd have to choose between getting rocks up or preventing rocks from being on the field.
    [​IMG]
    Genosekuto @ Leftovers
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
    Sub sect is the star of the show. It needs no boost because of download,and rips teams apart. If I predict the shandera switchin, I can sub up and kill some random pokemon while the shandera switches back. I wonder if this set is underrated? I run enough speed to outspeed breloom and its coverage gaps are handled by Shandera. Even if I don't have shandera, nattorei isn't a problem because I can sub up. I chose this set over all other sets because it has bulk the rock polish boost is useless sometimes, requires less prediction, doesn't get owned by nattorei, and might defeat a poke with a sub intact with para support.
    [​IMG]
    Shandera (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Revenge killer shandera. It helps out with the coverage issues of Genosect and isn't worried by SR thanks to Deoxys. It can revenge politoed and kill lati@s too. The hp is kinda unnecessary because I don't have gliscor problems but its not like hp fighting would do that much to ttar.
    [​IMG]
    Birijion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justice Heart
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature(+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    This poke is the guy I'm the most unsure of. Its not as effective in a metagame with shandera but it counters sandstorm and rain. I can't think of anything else that counters both sandstorm and rain and isn't killed by shandera. The set allows it to get calm minds while the opponent ice beams it, (although most bulky waters care toxic, which I must be aware of) and recovers hp with giga drain and sweeps. I'm considering hp rock/water/dark to kill shandera on the switch. Other than shandera, it is countered by psychics, which ttar and shandera effotlessly trap.
    [​IMG]
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multi-Scale
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 SDef / 12 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    Dragonite is my t-wave supporter, mainly so that genosect can get subs easier. It t-waves while it takes a hit due to multi scale, then spams roost until it gets back to full health, then either subs or phases. Its a good poke against bulky waters because some might carry toxic over ice beam, and helps my bulky team.
    [​IMG]
    Azumarill (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Huge Power
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Aqua Jet
    - Superpower
    - Return
    Because even with Birijiron, I was a bit weak to sandstorm teams, so I added azurmarill on my team. Toxic isn't beneficial with para support, and ice punch is unneccessary, I have return as my 4th move. I usually play conservatively with it, so it won't get trapped by shandera. It synergizes well with para support too!
    Importable
    Show Hide
    Deoxys-S @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Taunt
    Shandera (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Shadow Tag
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Shadow Ball
    - Fire Blast
    - Energy Ball
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Birijion @ Leftovers
    Trait: Justice Heart
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Multi-Scale
    EVs: 244 HP / 252 SDef / 12 Spd
    Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Tail
    - Roost
    - Thunder Wave
    - Substitute
    Azumarill (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Huge Power
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Aqua Jet
    - Return
    - Waterfall
    - Superpower
    Genosekuto @ Leftovers
    Trait: Download
    EVs: 140 HP / 252 SAtk / 116 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Bug Buzz
    - Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt
  2. Eos

    Eos Do It With A DON!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    741
    Hmm, how is Deoxys your anti-lead when it sets up both rocks and spikes? Instead of stealth rocks or spikes (depending on which one you've had the most success with) you should have dual screens. Light screen for one of the entry hazards and one for magic coat. Also, I don't think you need to run timid seeing as it has base 180. what good will it do (besides opposing deo-s')? I'd run a +def -att nature (bold).
    Geno should run flamethrower, or at least test it/slash it in. Against opposing geno's it is great, as well as anything else needed. Also, i'd run timid max speed and sp. att to maximize the sweeping capability.
    Finally someone who got the FB + timid nature shandera correct the first time. Good set, good job.
    Never ran a Birijion, but all of the sets i've seen are either that or with slight adjustments, and yes that set is effective in the metagame.
    For Nite, i suggest using a bulky DD set with dragon tail, EQ, roost, and obviously DD. This helps set itself up, as well as shuffle threw the opponents team. Also, since SubGeno is outclassed by full out attacking LO/Specs Geno, and if you make these changes on Geno, T-wave on nite isn't too good really unless it is supporting something.

    Scarf ttar is walled by quite a bit atm, so i suggest you switch to a scarf Terakion maybe. to get rid of the other darks that your team is quite weak to otherwise. The standard Ttar with Fire Blast and a dark move (crunch/pursuit/dark pulse) can put a big dent in this team. Just a thought though.

    Also, if you are playing with this team on PO, why are you coming to smogon to rate the team seeing as they have different rules, regulations, and to an extent, a different metagame. Anyways, this team probably will need some work.
    Try these changes, GL!
  3. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    793
    Hello there. If they get up SR, you are absolutely wrecked by RP Terak. It gets easy setup as well on stuff like choice-locked Shandy/Ttar. Terak can tank anything Geno throws at in the sand also. So that's about half your team as setup fodder... I think you need priority for it, unless you want to be weighted down with another defensive poke. Ttar is probably the weakest link, so perhaps CB Azu instead (keeping the fire resist). CB Azu still keeps strapped even outside of the rain, and it has the bulk to take a non-boosted CC from Terak. Para support works really with it too, so yeah its a good fit.

    Azumarill @ Choice Band
    Adamant | Huge Power
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Waterfall / Aqua Jet / Superpower / Return

    Return for the fourth move because you have Tag Shand to eliminate steels, Ice Punch doesnt really benefit your team, and Toxic has bad synergy with para support. Don't forget to max out happiness and gl with the team!
  4. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    @Eos, I run timid just in case there's a scarf chomp or something, and I'd rather keep sub geno and dd nite. Oh and the team raters at PO suck.
    @Badabing, Testing azumarill now.
    Updated a bit with importable.
  5. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    793
    Hey on a side note, that Azu set is abysmally walled by Burungeru. If you have problems with it, maybe Toxic>Return. Though I don't like the status synergy, you won't be t-waving it anyway.
  6. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
  7. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    I have noticed that I have no resistance to flying type attacks, so hurricane+drizzle could mess me up.
  8. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    I've also noticed that I'm weak to rain teams, especially bulky waters who toxic on the switch, unresisted hurricanes, and the water/ice coverage and power, not to mention the bulk and power of stuff like Zapdos.
  9. Eos

    Eos Do It With A DON!
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    741
    It really isn't good to do anything more than a triple post :/ :p
    Just advice, because it really isn't looked at as a good thing. Don't take offense to this YAY, but just to let you know for future events.
  10. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,505
    I think you often fall behind the curve because your Deoxys is sacrificed. I think you should use something that can prevent rocks but also attack. You might want a standard Azelf lead that can Taunt hazard leads and lay down rocks but can also attack with Psychic and Flamethrower. Or perhaps a Mew. Mew can be very bulky and has the benefit of being unpredictable. Your opponent won't know what to expect. I think you should also choose another pokemon that benefits from paralysis more. I think you should replace Shandera for a bulky tank like a Conkeldurr or Gliscor. Both benefit from paralysis and Conkeldurr can still revenge a lot of things with MAch Punch, otherwise get a free Bulk Up.
  11. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    Azelf can't do anything late game because it gets pursuited. Mew..I don't know, it's significantly slower than deoxys and deoxys can set up spikes quickily. Shandera is the source of my only fire and ghost type move, so I don't know about that. Knowing that I have something against nattorei is good already.
    EDIT: And for some reason I made it to 1300 rating on PO.
  12. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,505
    Azelf isn't guaranteed to get Pursuited, that move is actually becoming far less common. Band Scizor is starting to generate into the bulky SD variety sans Pursuit and most Tyranitar are actually mixed also without Pursuit. The main point I'm trying to make is I think a lead that can actually attack would serve you better. At the very least replace either Taunt or Magic Coat with something like Psycho Boost and change your HP EVs to SpA since HP is pointless with a Focus Sash.
  13. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    hp evs are useful, it helps you take a no atk ttar crunch! Testing psycho boost/shadow ball over magic mirror.
    EDIT:I'm too scared of losing. I'll only ladder 25 points at a time, so I'll only do 2 battles today. Now at 1325 rating, and until I get can counter rain (especially bulky waters) better, I should play really conservatively.
  14. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,505
    My point is when Focus Sash is your item, it doesn't matter, because nothing will OHKO you (minus Hippowdon, Tyranitar and Abomasnow).
  15. SmileZ

    SmileZ

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    107
    I know you want to keep Dragonite but Can a suggest a Nasty Plot OR Thunderwave Thundurus. I would prefer Nasty Plot.

    Thunderus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Mischievous Heart
    Nature: Naive (+Spe,-SDef)
    EV's: 4 Atk / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
    -Nasty Plot/Thunderwave
    -Thunderbolt
    -Hidden Power [Ice]
    -Hammer Arm

    If you opt for Nasty Plot you have a very capable sweeper who can cause problems for Rain teams, espcially those lacking Azumarill. If you opt for Thunderwave instead you have the same support with extra offense.

    I can't see how you have a problem with Rain teams with that Birijion. I found it to be excellent once set up. It doesn't enjoy Hurricane though..

    Try that Thundurus and see what you think.
  16. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    Testing those SpA evs on Deoxys. About Voltlos, he doesn't have any staying power and dnite is overall a really good switch in to ulgramoth and blaziken.
    EDIT:Updated OP to include not so brief team building process and I'm now at #112 on PO lol.
  17. Dezza Laa

    Dezza Laa

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2010
    Messages:
    264
    Hi there,

    Got your VM. I'm guessing there is no changing SubSect (for obvious reasons) so lets look at a team that can work around it. It is a shame that Shadow Tag Shandera is back in the metagame, it really does wreck teams.

    Firstly I believe that Psycho Boost would work a lot better on Deoxy-S. A base 140 BP STAB move that is comaprable to Draco Meteor means that it is pretty lethal, especially with Deoxys-S good attack stat.

    Secondly I see that you don't really like Birjion with all the Shandera running around now. I also see that Azumarill is more of a backup helper than anything. It is that reason as to why I suggest 2 changes.

    First is from Birijion to Rotom-W. Rotom - W is a good Rain team counter is general.

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]

    Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 SAtk / 8 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

    - Trick
    - Pain Split / Volt Change
    - Thunder / Thunderbolt
    - Hydro Pump



    The second change is from Azumarill to Gliscor. Gliscor decimates just about every Sanndstorm abuser. The only one which it struggles against is HP Ice Randorosu.

    Show Hide


    [​IMG]

    Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Def / 20 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)

    - Protect / Taunt
    - Swords Dance
    - Facade
    - Earthquake



    You now have nothing to resist Rock moves though and have 2 weak to it, but I don't think that is much of a problem with the bulk Gliscor sports and the fact he has a very reliable form of recovery.

    Nothin much else to say. If you're looking for a Shandera counter look at Stealth Rocks, because really there is nothing stopping him from coming in on whatever Pokemon he pleases.

    GL
  18. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    The only reason I have shadow ball on deoxys is to beat espeon and Xatu. I don't really know about that. I'll attempt running that rotom set though it is SR and Sandstorm weak. Gliscor I'll also try with protect.
    Just noticed but I'm ttar weak.
  19. YAYtears

    YAYtears

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2010
    Messages:
    345
    Testing this set over deoxys to assure that I get some rocks and spikes, especially when ttar goes all over deoxys.
    Iwaparesu (M) @ Custap Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 196 HP / 252 Atk / 60 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor

    EDIT:/checks ranking...#36?1443 points on PO? WTF? This joke team of sub genos and birijiron who's 100% shandera bait actually leaderboarded? Oh wow this is so awesome!

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)