Other Good Cores

[Cingen]

If you're running defog and U-turn, it's a UtilityZor, with a set like this:

move 1: Bullet Punch
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Defog
move 4: Roost / Pursuit
ability: Technician
item: Leftovers
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SpD
(credit to Bribery, the OP of this set)

Since you're not running Superpower, you can't deal with either Terrakion, Lati@s, Garchomp, Mamoswine or Gyarados: CharX's 5 biggest threats. If you really want to run Scizor (shame it can't be MEVO, would help in this situation) make an odd amendment to this set and run:

move 1: Bullet Punch
move 2: U-turn
move 3: Defog
move 4: Superpower
ability: Technician
item: Life Orb
nature: Adamant
evs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 216 SpD

You can 1HKO Latios with U-turn, 1HKO Revenge Kill a CB Terrakion if needed after taking a Close Combat, though dying about half the time to life orb recoil:

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 44 Def Scizor: 280-330 (81.63 - 96.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It easily 1HKOs Mamoswine. However, there's still a slight weakness to Terrakion, and a large weakness to Garchomp and Gyarados. Throw in a bulky Rotom-W, the ultimate Gyarados threat, and Azumarill to revenge kill Garchomp and Terrakion. This gives you a fantastic bulky offense core.

Bulky Attacker Rotom-W:
move 1: Volt Switch
move 2: Hydro Pump
move 3: Will-O-Wisp
move 4: HP: Ice
ability: Levitate
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 232 HP / 56 SpA / 220 Spe

All-Out Attacker Azumarill:
move 1: Aqua Jet
move 2: Play Rough
move 3: Waterfall
move 4: Superpower
ability: Huge Power
item: Choice Band
nature: Adamant Nature
evs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 84 Spe

Then, to compensate for the lack of a pursuit trapper due to Superpower UtilityZor, i'd get one and perhaps throw in Galvantula for sticky web, helps with the revenge killing Terakkion and Garchomp. You could lead with either the typical Sash'd Galvantula to set up Sticky Web (check my previous post in this thread) or CharX to avoid taking damage from SR later in the game before Mega Evolving. Just brainstorming at this point without any real figures, but whatever suits you :)

Might come back to edit this, just wanted to post what I had! Hope this helps.

Wow thanks for the extensive anwer! The scizor isn't really a must have for me, but after the research I did he seemed to be a nice suplement that can make up for some of Mega Charizard X his weaknesses (mostly Stealth Rock, and I prefer Defog over Rapid spin, at least on paper.) .

Rotom seems like an interesting choice :)

In this thread I also read quite some mention of a Charizard X combined with Aegislash, but I fail to see the logic behind it. Most people say they do it because Aegislash is a Fairy killer, which is good for MOST dragons but.. Charizard isn't weak against fairies at all because of his Fire/Dragon typing so I fail to see the logic between that combo :/ Not saying it's bad since I am very interested in it myself, but it doesn't seem to be good for the reasons people give it.

 

[Chubbin]

One that recently came to mind (however I'm not sure if you'd call it a 'core') is Talonflame + Mamoswine.

It seems like Talonflame's main counters will be Garchomp, Landorus-T, Heatran and other bulky ground/steel types and Mamoswine can OHKO a lot of these with 4x super effective STABs.

 

[Jozan87]

I think I am going to settle for M-Blastoise - Aegislash - Hydreigon core. Nice offensive core that covers each other's weaknesses perfectly and gives access to spinning and spin blocking. Hydreigon even learns Flash Cannon via TM which is a nice counter to a fairy switch in.

Now I just need to figure out what to build around this core...

 

[Ballofire]

I don't see garchomp countering talon at all. Landorus T on the other hand..

 

[Fafnir]

Right now, I'm planning on running Assault vest TTar, sub Gliscor, and Mega Blastoise as a core. A lot of bulk in there, as well as some decent type coverage (although in game, being unable to get a TTar with superpower might be annoying).

Tyranitar - Sandstream
Assault Vest
Adamant
252 HP, 252 Sp.D, 4 Spe
Crunch
Pursuit
Stone Edge
Earthquake/coverage move (lack of move tutor makes superpower impossible, much to my disappointment and inconceivable rage)

Gliscor - Poison Heal
Toxic Orb
Impish
244 HP, 40 Def, 224 Spe
Substitute
Toxic
Protect
Earthquake

Mega Blastoise
Blastoisinite
Modest
252 HP, 252 Sp.A, 4 Spe
Scald
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse
Rapid Spin

 

[Colroyd]

I think I am going to settle for M-Blastoise - Aegislash - Hydreigon core. Nice offensive core that covers each other's weaknesses perfectly and gives access to spinning and spin blocking. Hydreigon even learns Flash Cannon via TM which is a nice counter to a fairy switch in.

Now I just need to figure out what to build around this core...

Togekiss has the potential to completely wreck this core, while Azumarill and Latios will effortlessly destroy it.

Latios will sweep that entire core even without +1 DD. If Togekiss is running Dazzling Gleam instead of Aura Sphere it will take on Hydreigon after a Fire Blast and destroy your entire core even with few/no SpA EVs (Dazzling Gleam/Fire Blast/Air Slash/Roost set), 1HKO'ing Aegislash with Fire Blast and Roosting off anything M-Blastoise will do to it. Togekiss is getting more popular too, especially with the rise of Galvantula letting it Flinchax most of the meta and it's new unique typing. But the threat of Togekiss is nothing compared to what Azumarill would do to this team, choice scarf'd Hydreigon or not. How does 1HKO'ing Hydreigon with Play Rough while Flash Cannon does NOTHING sound?

252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 102-121 (25.24 - 29.95%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

You need to compensate for these fairies, especially the double-type fairies since they'll receive a boom in usage due to their new typing.

Flash Cannon will only > Fire Blast when it's a pure fairy type, and they happen to have ridiculous SpD stats (florges, sylveon) so good luck downing them. Azumarill can 2HKO Aegislash and tank Offensive Stance Aegislash's iron heads easily. M-Blastoise also can't do a thing to Azumarill with it being immune to its 135BP Dragon Pulses.

M-Blastoise is so good just because it can run a 120BP Dark Pulse and become an unblockable rapid spinner. But, with no weaknesses to SR in your core, Aegislash not minding Sticky Web, and Hydreigon not getting affected by it due to Levitate, he has no roll here. Sorry, but I don't think there's any real way to fix this core with such huge weaknesses to Latios (16% usage in previous gen and it hasn't gotten any weaker, esp with defog available for it) + two mons that undoubtedly increase several-fold in OU usage.

If you want to build a core around one of these pokemon, let me know and I'll have a go. :)

 

[Jozan87]

Togekiss has the potential to completely wreck this core, while Azumarill and Latios will effortlessly destroy it.

Latios will sweep that entire core even without +1 DD. If Togekiss is running Dazzling Gleam instead of Aura Sphere it will take on Hydreigon after a Fire Blast and destroy your entire core even with few/no SpA EVs (Dazzling Gleam/Fire Blast/Air Slash/Roost set), 1HKO'ing Aegislash with Fire Blast and Roosting off anything M-Blastoise will do to it. Togekiss is getting more popular too, especially with the rise of Galvantula letting it Flinchax most of the meta and it's new unique typing. But the threat of Togekiss is nothing compared to what Azumarill would do to this team, choice scarf'd Hydreigon or not. How does 1HKO'ing Hydreigon with Play Rough while Flash Cannon does NOTHING sound?

252 SpA Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 102-121 (25.24 - 29.95%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

You need to compensate for these fairies, especially the double-type fairies since they'll receive a boom in usage due to their new typing.

Flash Cannon will only > Fire Blast when it's a pure fairy type, and they happen to have ridiculous SpD stats (florges, sylveon) so good luck downing them. Azumarill can 2HKO Aegislash and tank Offensive Stance Aegislash's iron heads easily. M-Blastoise also can't do a thing to Azumarill with it being immune to its 135BP Dragon Pulses.

M-Blastoise is so good just because it can run a 120BP Dark Pulse and become an unblockable rapid spinner. But, with no weaknesses to SR in your core, Aegislash not minding Sticky Web, and Hydreigon not getting affected by it due to Levitate, he has no roll here. Sorry, but I don't think there's any real way to fix this core with such huge weaknesses to Latios (16% usage in previous gen and it hasn't gotten any weaker, esp with defog available for it) + two mons that undoubtedly increase several-fold in OU usage.

If you want to build a core around one of these pokemon, let me know and I'll have a go. :)

Thanks for the input :) I haven't done the math but I assumed an Expert Belted Flash Cannon from Hydrei would do good things(same with Draco Meteor against Latios?). Aegis is pretty good against Fairies too. Will give it some testing. Can't the other 3 slots also help cover these weaknesses? Hmm...

 

[Lord Jesseus]

Thanks for the input :) I haven't done the math but I assumed an Expert Belted Flash Cannon from Hydrei would do good things(same with Draco Meteor against Latios?). Aegis is pretty good against Fairies too. Will give it some testing. Can't the other 3 slots also help cover these weaknesses? Hmm...

It doesn't matter whether you can hit the latis hard, they outspeed hydreigon and kill him first. Idk about Togekiss, but Kiss is pretty bulky and Flash Cannon is pretty weak. I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[Colroyd]

Thanks for the input :) I haven't done the math but I assumed an Expert Belted Flash Cannon from Hydrei would do good things(same with Draco Meteor against Latios?). Aegis is pretty good against Fairies too. Will give it some testing. Can't the other 3 slots also help cover these weaknesses? Hmm...

Latios is going to outspeed Hydreigeon every time if you're not using a Scarf, and will 100% 1HKO it. Well let's see what Aegislash Offensive Form 252 Atk EVs Iron Heads do to togekiss/azumarill:

252- Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 106-125 (26.23 - 30.94%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252- Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 182-216 (51.26 - 60.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And if we look at the flip side...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 414-487 (158.01 - 185.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72 SpA Life Orb Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash: 165-195 (62.97 - 74.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Considering this is your offensive core, you want as much viable coverage as you can get. I can understand if the Offensive Core is walled by 1 pokemon, but with such common mons walling AND 1HKO/2HKO'ing all your core in return it just isn't going to work.

It doesn't matter whether you can hit the latis hard, they outspeed hydreigon and kill him first. Idk about Togekiss, but Kiss is pretty bulky and Flash Cannon is pretty weak. I wouldn't bet on it.

Yep.

252+ SpA Life Orb Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Togekiss: 216-255 (60.84 - 71.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So unless Togekiss is switching in, it could just turn around and 1HKO with Dazzling Gleam.

And Azumarill screws it even more than that :D

 

[Jozan87]

Latios is going to outspeed Hydreigeon every time if you're not using a Scarf, and will 100% 1HKO it. Well let's see what Aegislash Offensive Form 252 Atk EVs Iron Heads do to togekiss/azumarill:

252- Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 106-125 (26.23 - 30.94%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252- Atk Gengar Iron Head vs. 176 HP / 0 Def Togekiss: 182-216 (51.26 - 60.84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And if we look at the flip side...

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 414-487 (158.01 - 185.87%) -- guaranteed OHKO
72 SpA Life Orb Togekiss Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Aegislash: 165-195 (62.97 - 74.42%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Considering this is your offensive core, you want as much viable coverage as you can get. I can understand if the Offensive Core is walled by 1 pokemon, but with such common mons walling AND 1HKO/2HKO'ing all your core in return it just isn't going to work.

Sorry if I am being dumb, but how did Gengar come into this?

 

[Colroyd]

Sorry if I am being dumb, but how did Gengar come into this?

Sorry I was using a Gengar and redoing it's stats blablabla when modeling Aegislash. It's meant to say Aegislash :D

Edit: fixed it

 

[Jozan87]

Sorry I was using a Gengar and redoing it's stats blablabla when modeling Aegislash. It's meant to say Aegislash :D

Edit: fixed it

Ah, that makes sense. Yes, Azumarill is pretty strong. I do run 252Hp Aegislash. This also doesn't take into account King's Shielding any of Azu's moves, lowering it's attack.
Would you say DD Dragonite is a better choice than Hydreigon? Appreciates the spinning more and after a dance it can outspeed more threats?

 

[Reikai]

So I was looking at the new Type chart and thought about this. An immunity core.

The types: Fairy / Steel / Dark / Ghost / Flying / Ground / Normal are all immune to at least one typing.

As such, I was thinking of something like this.

A Variant could be:

I was thinking of building these guys as a bulky-offense core as they can easily cover each other's weaknesses quite well, and can get rather easy switch in on various types of attacks.

Key weaknesses to this core that I can see off hand would be Fire and Water attacks, as at the very worst they will do neutral damage to it. As such, I think perhaps a bulky water? And/or maybe even something like Rotom-W with its unique typing would fit well into this combination.

Of the other 2 pokemon, one should be an entry-hazard setter, and ideally be able to bait some attacks that this core can be immune to.

I'd like to hear all your opinions regarding a setup like this, and why it could or could not work.

 

[Colroyd]

Ah, that makes sense. Yes, Azumarill is pretty strong. I do run 252Hp Aegislash. This also doesn't take into account King's Shielding any of Azu's moves, lowering it's attack.
Would you say DD Dragonite is a better choice than Hydreigon? Appreciates the spinning more and after a dance it can outspeed more threats?

If it's a 252Hp Aegislash, I assume that's with 252 Atk/SpA w/ Leftovers. In which case: 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 414-487 (127.77 - 150.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Still a OHKO.

If you're running Life Orb, you can 2HKO him with Shadow Claw. However that isn't much use since Azumarill is still going to outspeed and 1HKO even if you catch him switching in, as long as it's running this set the staple set from Sidakarya with 84 Spe EVs. I suggest Leftovers anyway.

Also, King's Shield is regarded by most over on the Aegislash thread as a rather lack luster ability and very few sets use it, though if you do assume a Defence Stance Aegislash:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 168-198 (51.85 - 61.11%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 84-100 (20.79 - 24.75%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

King's Shield doesn't do anything for it, really.

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Dragonite is a better choice, but still has its problems in that it becomes far too reliant on having DD up. It still gets outsped w/o DD up by Latios, and when both have DD up obviously Dragonite gets outsped again. Azumarill is still going to 1HKO Dragonite, while Dragonite can't really touch Azumarill at all unless it's running Choice Band:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 332-392 (102.78 - 121.36%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Azumarill's best check in this core would be Rotom-W, which simultaneously 1HKO's Togekiss. I think you could certainly make a strong offensive core out of Dragonite + Rotom-W + M-Blastoise. If you want, I could help you make an Offensive Core out of that? Haven't done all the numbers yet but with just brainstorming it seems to work with a few additions.

 

[El Coqui]

In terms of defensive cores:

Dragalge and Bronzong will probably be the best new UU defensive core since they cover each other's butts so perfectly. Plus whenever Adaptability is released Dragalge can bite back even in a defensive spread.

Carbink and Chestnaught would do AMAZING in RU. Rock/Fairy and Grass/Fighting they each cover each other's weaknesses and have many options on what to do as a pivot. 252 def and spdef allows Carbink to even take an EQ from MegaDactyl (also gets dial-screen and rocks). Chestnaught as a defensive brick, mixing spikey shield and leech seed, can severe frusterate unprepared foes

 

[Jozan87]

If it's a 252Hp Aegislash, I assume that's with 252 Atk/SpA w/ Leftovers. In which case: 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 414-487 (127.77 - 150.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Still a OHKO.

If you're running Life Orb, you can 2HKO him with Shadow Claw. However that isn't much use since Azumarill is still going to 1HKO even if you catch him switching in, as long as it's running this set the staple set from Sidakarya with 84 Spe EVs. I suggest Leftovers anyway.

Also, King's Shield is regarded by most over on the Aegislash thread as a rather lack luster ability and very few sets use it, though if you do assume a Defence Stance Aegislash:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 168-198 (51.85 - 61.11%) -- 94.14% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Aegislash Shadow Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 84-100 (20.79 - 24.75%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

King's Shield doesn't do anything for it, really.

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Dragonite is a better choice, but still has its problems in that it becomes far too reliant on having DD up. It still gets outsped w/o DD up by Latios, and when both have DD up obviously Dragonite gets outsped again. Azumarill is still going to 1HKO Dragonite, while Dragonite 2HKO's Azumarill unless it's already got +1:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragonite: 332-392 (102.78 - 121.36%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 265-313 (65.59 - 77.47%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Azumarill's best check in this core would be Rotom-W, which simultaneously 1HKO's Togekiss. I think you could certainly make a strong offensive core out of Dragonite + Rotom-W + M-Blastoise. If you want, I could help you make an Offensive Core out of that? Haven't done all the numbers yet but with just brainstorming it seems to work with a few additions.

Thanks for all your responses, they are great! Did you take Multiscale into account for the Dragonite math? Not sure if it is a typo or w/e but it says Dragon Claw using Azu? Obviously I would want to switch out Dragonite out if it is facing Azu without having previously set up a DD.

Help would be appreciated. I do however HATE Rotom in all it's forms and it's stupid face :P Would like to keep Aegis & M-Blastoise in a core if poss.

 

[Colroyd]

Thanks for all your responses, they are great! Did you take Multiscale into account for the Dragonite math? Not sure if it is a typo or w/e but it says Dragon Claw using Azu? Obviously I would want to switch out Dragonite out if it is facing Azu without having previously set up a DD.

Help would be appreciated. I do however HATE Rotom in all it's forms and it's stupid face :P Would like to keep Aegis & M-Blastoise in a core if poss.

Yep I was using Dragon Claw and redoing it like I did with gengar to model Play Rough xD Edited it again, anyway. I'll see what can be done with Aegis+M-Blastoise but designing cores around pokemon just because you have some sort of attachment to them doesn't tend to be the best way of going about it, so there will be limitations. Making a core for another guy atm too so I'll get back to you with that core (or I might come back and say I can't make one) as soon as I can!

 

[Golem Rising]

Other new cores!

I have been having great success with Aegislash+MegaGyarados. Gyarados in normal form dodges earthquakes and tanks fire moves (the most common attacks leveled at Aegislash) and threatens to set up and go mega, where it resists ghost and dark type attacks. Aegis on the other hand laughs at the rock type moves and tanks the somewhat rare electric type moves fairly well. What makes this core work, however, the the severe threat of a setup. People will always try and switch into them, making it simple to wear an opposing team down.

 

[BlackSIlk90]

Now that you mentioned Dracoslash, I was toying around with the idea of LO Kyurem-B/Bulky Aegislash on paper. Having sticky web support means Kyu-B doesn't have to run a Scarf, so a(n) mixed LO set with Fusion Bolt, Ice Beam, and Outrage with Roost for recovery would be devastating. Kyu-B can now spam Outrage even more especially against less skilled trainers who immediately switch in a fairy which immediately allows me to bypass being locked into the move & switch into Aegislash to force them out and score a hit on something incoming. My main concern thus far has been weather to add them into a rain team or just use weatherless. As of this moment I am looking at Lead Galvantula, Kyurem-B, Bulky Aegislash, Weather starter, Terrakion/Kabutops, Rotom-W

 

[Beanman1000]

I was thinking of abusing mega gengar, and paired him up with garchomp. Gengar would have a special sweep move list, while garchomp would have physical, but should ny third be breloom, chesnaught, or togakiss?

 

[The Great Gastly]

Previously I had posted a core of Noivern+Greninja+Galvantula... and I made a little addition to it. :]

..........

Mega-Mawile!

It's basically an oversized VoltTurn core.

Defensively: Each of their individual weaknesses are covered by at least 1 other member of the core.
Offensively: It combines speed, power, and coverage. Not to mention, Mega-Mawile is the ultimate pivot & wall-breaker.

Overall, it utilizes the benefits of VoltTurn and Wish Support (from a 5th pokemon) to take full advantage of Mawile’s fabulous typing, bulk, and power.
It also exercises speed control via the presence of an early Sticky Web, as well as Tailwinds being set throughout the match. Thoughts?

 

[nikovan]

Latios will sweep that entire core even without +1 DD.

Physical Latios? How viable is that?

 

[avsimone]

I'm relatively new to competitive Pokemon, so forgive me if these questions are obvious, but...

Two questions:

1. Couldn't Dragonite replace Hydreigon in this situation, and actually be a better choice considering he has fewer type weaknesses?

2. Galvantula Lead with Sticky Web seems to be all the rage. Are there any other Leads you can think of that will stand up in this new meta? Or even more specifically, what other Leads could synergize well with this combo (Hydreigon/Dragonite + Aegislash)?

Thanks!

Edit -- Thought about my first question more, and came to two possible conclusions: The fact that Hydreigon has a higher base Speed, and so can out-speed more threats than Dragonite, or the fact that Hydreigon is a special sweeper, which compliments Aegislash's role as a physical sweeper better than having a second physical sweeper (Dragonite). Let me know if either of my conclusions were correct!

Dragonite does have less weaknesses than Hydreigon, HOWEVER hydreigon resists all of the types that Aegislash is weak to and vice versa. Also depending on the sets they can counter each other's checks as well. I've been using a Hasty-Hydreigon/KS SS Aegislash in the Battle maison and it's been amazing. Aegislash uses king's shield agains a physical attacker, and it usually drops the defense covering up hydreigon's poor defence from Hasty, Hydreigon can U-turn to Aegislash for all those pokes that hydreigon just can't beat (though there have been a few problems I've run into like bad accuracy from fire blast) though I haven't tried it with sticky web, in the past I've found that entry hazard support in a 3v3 match not to be worth it.

On a side note, sticky web will work REALLY well with mega-Ttar and Scizor (if you use them as a core/consider them a core). because their speeds are only ok. They out speed walls but get out sped by common sweepers. now they've got a fighting chance to out speed stuff!

 

[FurryGah]

I noticed a few pages back people were talking about a Mega Mawile / Salamence core. Is that still a viable option?

 

[Mystearica Aura]

Don't u think Dragon/Fairy/Steel/Fire cores will become pretty popular? They cover each other weaknesses quite well.

If it does, I can see more people running things like Intimidate Arcanine or Torkoal (taking into account SE won't be as dominating as it was with Defog's buff)