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Goodstuff is good stuff

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Jadeblade87, May 6, 2012.

  1. Jadeblade87


    May 6, 2012
    Hello smogon. This is a VGC 12 team that I have just created. Looking for some advice/ratings. Thank you.

    Gengar@Ghost Gem
    -Levitate timid 4HP/252SPA/252SPE
    Shadow Ball
    HP Water/Ice

    This is a slightly modified version of gengar. Its main purpose is to block trick room or whimsicott from setting up too much. It is a hard hitter and also does not get affected by common EQ. I am still deciding between water and ice, but I am leaning towards water to hit the common ground and rock and fire types.

    Terrakion@Choice Scarf
    -Justified Adamant 4HP/252ATT/252SPE
    Rock Slide
    Close Combat

    This is a completely standard Terrakion. It is tough to wall with its strong attack stat. All of its weaknesses are handled by Latios or Zapdos.

    -Intimidate adamant 252HP/252ATT/4SPE
    Fake Out
    Close Combat
    Sucker Punch

    Hitmontop is great for breaking sashes, killing multiscale, strong priority, and making a one turn one-on-one. I do feel like my team does get destroyed by a chlorophyll with sun up, so I was thinking of switching this Pokemon for a hippodown (makes 3 weak to ice type) or T-Tar. Also, I currently have a 3 Pokemon weakness to ice, (abomasnow blizzard problem).

    Zapdos@Fire Gem
    -Pressure modest 4HP/252SPA/252SPE
    Heat Wave

    Latios@Dragon Gem
    -Levitate timid 4HP/252SPA/252SPE
    Dragon Pulse
    Energy Ball

    Only problem with this set is the steel wall. It is possible to switch this for Hydreigon which has Fire Blast.

    Scizor@Focus Sash
    -Technician adamant 4HP/252ATT/252SPE
    Bug Bite
    Bullet Punch

    This is the main reason to get rid of hail. I have a serious weakness to it. The hail kills my focus sash.

    All suggestions are welcome. Again, thank you.
  2. pokemaster649


    Aug 15, 2011
    First of all, replace agility and focus sash to arcobatics (flying gem as an item) or night slash (with occa berry). Night slash will give some chans a little problem. Arcobatics + flying gem, this move can ko some pokemon.

    If latios doesn't work out for you, hydreigon with flamethrower would be better because of accuracy with fire blast.

    Here is a set for hydreigon:
    Hydreigon item: chople berry
    ability: levitate
    nature: timid
    evs: 4 hp, 252 sp. atk, 252 spd
    dragon pulse
    dark pulse

    If you are willing to keep latios, take out energy ball with sub or tailwind. Plus, you need draco meteor to ko most pokemon with dragon gem, try to replace it with something that is not useful for you in that move set.

    For your zap, I say replace fire gem with sitrus berry or electric gem. Try tailwind instead of roost, since I mention sitrus. Tailwind will give the advantage of speed. Try a much more bulky set.

    Try my set that I used:
    Zapdos item: sitrus berry
    ability: pressure
    nature: modest
    evs: 140 hp, 252 sp. atk, 116 spd
    heat wave

    If you are afraid of abomasnow using blizzard, try wide guard on top. I suggest try to replace protect.

    Hp ice would be better on gengar than hp water. Plus taunt doesn't guarantee that you will stop whim from setting tailwind for the first turn or something like that.

    As for your terrakion, in my opinion, choice scarf is not that great. Try sash on him. It works perfectly. Protect (replacing eq or x-scissors)would be consider to be one of the moves, if you using are sash terrakion. Try quick guard terra, it worked out for me. If not, thats fine.

    Plus, you need to add more descriptions.
  3. voodoo pimp

    voodoo pimp Apply directly to the forehead
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Oct 12, 2010
    Your descriptions are a little weak, try expanding them if you can. I suggest using Draco Meteor on Latios, it kills almost anything that isn't Steel-type or really specially bulky, which is great for taking out specific threats to the rest of your team. Zapdos might be better off with a bulkier spread, it doesn't gain too much with max Speed. Also, like pokemaster649 said, get rid of Agility on Scizor, it's not very useful.

    Technician doesn't work that way.
  4. pokemaster649


    Aug 15, 2011
    Ok, never mind on what I said about technician. Arco + flying gem, can ko some, not as much as STAB flight arcobatics.
  5. MavsObbession


    May 8, 2011
    Wow, so many new VGC players! Awesome! Welcome to Smogon, by the way! Now..... on to the rate! (Your descriptions are a little lacking, try expanding them.)


    Most weather teams will give you a difficult time, whether it be Rain, Sun or Hail teams. Rain Teams will run over your team with Swift Swim sweepers with Double Surf, while Hail Teams will constantly spam Blizzard to destroy you, as you have two Ice weaknesses on useful Pokémon on your team, Latios and Zapdos. Although Sun teams aren't as common, Chlorophyll sweepers will run over this team like Swift Swim sweepers do. Pokémon such as Ninetales and D use STAB Fire-type moves with a 50% boost to take apart your team. Solarbeam users will OHKO Terrakion, without having to wait two turns.


    This is precisely why you should have Tyranitar. T-Tar can check opposing weather teams with its ability, Sand Stream. If you have the advantage with weather, you'll probably win the match! You see, weather teams are frail without their own weather dominating. This is why Tyranitar is a good choice. Here's a set for T-Tar:

    Tyranitar (open)

    Tyranitar @ Chople Berry/Focus Sash | Sand Stream
    Brave (+Atk, -Spe) | 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD (0 Spe IV's)
    Crunch / Rock Slide / Low Kick / Protect

    I prefer Focus Sash on Tyranitar, but Terrakion should have it instead. Also, Tyranitar (w/ Focus Sash) > Terrakion, if you consider it. You have good Fighting-type coverage with Hitmontop and Tyranitar, and good Rock-type coverage with Tyranitar, also. Crunch 2HKO's Max HP Cresselia, while Rock Slide can take care of Fire-types, such as Ninetales. Low Kick OHKO's opposing Tyranitar, Weavile, etc. The 0 Speed IV's are there so Tyranitar can benefit from Trick Room.

    Additional Comments (EV's, Movesets, and Items)

    Like pokemaster649 said, Focus Sash > Choice Scarf on Terrakion. Even thought it's Scarfed, it still doesn't outspeed Timid Latios (which is very common in VGC), leading him to get OHKO'ed by the likes of Latios using Psyshock or Draco Meteor. That's my only concern; everything else on Terrakion looks fine.

    Fighting Gem > Leftovers on Hitmontop. Leftovers won't really help Hitmontop, just because threats such as Max SpA Latios can easily 2HKO or OHKO Hitmontop with Psyshock (89.2% - 107.0%: 38% chance to KO). Instead, give him a Fighting Gem, to OHKO threats such as Max HP Tyranitar with a Chople Berry (99.5% - 118.8%: 93% chance to KO, Terrakion (147.3% - 173.7%: 100% chance to KO), and other Pokémon that don't resist it. Yes, the Fighting Gem is a definetly the better item over Leftovers. Like pokemaster649 said, if you're worried about Blizzard, give Hitmontop Wide Guard over Protect. I think that's a much better choice.

    It's not worth having Fire Gem on Zapdos, just because Heat Wave isn't even STAB, making Fire Gem a waste of an item. Instead give Zapdos a Sitrus or Yache Berry > Fire Gem. If you're worried about Zapdos getting OHKO'ed by the likes of Blizzard, give him a Yache Berry to cut the damage in half. Sitrus Berry is also good; Zapdos doesn't get OHKO'ed by the likes of STAB Ice Beam, so you can easily restore your HP to fight back with Heat Wave. The only problem I see with Zapdos' moveset is Roost; Zapdos isn't really meant to stall, after all VGC is a very fast metagame. Instead give him Tailwind > Roost. That way, your Pokémon can outspeed its opposing mirrors, such as Latios vs. Latios. By the way, give Zapdos a bulkier EV spread, such as this one; 140 HP / 252 SpA / 116 Spe. With this EV spread, Zapdos can survive much longer to put him to good use.

    I suggest Draco Meteor > Dragon Pulse on Latios. Dragon Gem + Draco Meteor can OHKO anything in it's path that isn't specially defensive or resistant to this move. I prefer Psyshock over Psychic on him also, just because Psyshock does more damage in clear weather than Psychic does. I did the calcs, here's a comparison between Psyshock and Psychic against two potential threats, Terrakion and Amoonguss.

    Amoonguss (Max HP / Max SpD+)
    Psyshock: 81.7%-95.4%
    Psychic: 56.3%-67.5%

    Terrakion (in sand):
    Psyshock: 88.6%-104.9% (31% chance to KO)
    Psychic (in sand): 66.2%-78.0%
    Psychic (clear): 99.5%-117.6% (93% chance to KO)

    As you can see, Psyshock is more effective in Sandstorm, but Psychic is stronger when the weather is clear.

    I don't think 252 Speed EV's will benefit Scizor. He has a base 65 Speed stat, so even with 252 Speed EV's invested, it won't outspeed many Pokémon. Give him a bulkier spread with Max HP, such as this one: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe. Scizor rarely gets OHKO'ed, unless it gets hit by Heat Wave or Flamethrower. This exactly why you shouldn't give him a Focus Sash. I recommend an Occa Berry; damage from Fire-type attacks are halved, so Scizor won't get OHKO'ed. Agility isn't a good choice, +2 Scizor doesn't outspeed much either. Instead, give Scizor Superpower over Agility to OHKO threats, such as Tyranitar and Terrakion. Or, you could go for the Flying Gem + Acrobatics combo for more coverage against Grass and Bug-types.

    Good luck on VGC, hope I helped!
  6. pokemaster649


    Aug 15, 2011
    I was the one who mention focus sash on terrakion, Terrakion can outspeed latios with scarf. (176 x 1.5 = 264, latios's max speed is 178)

    Btw, I wouldn't recommend superpower on scizor, he can handle terra and ttar without it. Like I said, night slash would be a much better option against threats like the chans.
  7. MavsObbession


    May 8, 2011
    Superpower is an OK choice, as it can OHKO the likes of Terrakion and Tyranitar. But Flying Gem Acrobatics is also good, like I said. XD
  8. pokemaster649


    Aug 15, 2011
    I know, I also mention flying arcobatics on my first post.
  9. Ravix


    Feb 5, 2011
    I prefer bug gem on Scizor, with swords dance.

    It grabs a ohko on metagross after SD and bug gem bug bite will ohko any psychic type not named cresselia. SD bug bite will ohko. Scizor almost always has a way to set up.

    I'd also throw an electric gem onto Zapdos, just for some oomph. You aren't going to get ohko by anything (that's not stone edge) so you might as well get a kill.

    About Gengar however, I feel that he is a bit redundant.

    I would replace him with a Tornadus.


    Tornadus @ Flying Gem
    Ability: Prankster
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Defense
    Adamant Nature (+Attack/ -Special Attack)

    He provides a much more reliable trick room counter and has tailwind support. Flying gem Acrobatics ohko's just about anything that doesn't resist.

    Bulky is always better.

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