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Hail No! (An OU Hail team)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by assassinfred, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. assassinfred

    assassinfred

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    692
    INTRODUCTION:

    Ever since Black and White came out, weather has been a centralizing force in the metagame. Through Dream World, Politoed and Ninetales got Drizzle and Drought respectively, starting the days of the Weather Wars and joining Tyranitar in the ranks of perma-weather in OU. And so, Sand, Sun, and Rain duked it out, running into the occasional weatherless team along the way. Black and White 2 only further increased the weather wars metagame, bringing the likes of Keldeo and the Therians and Genesect, all of whom can work wonders on weather teams.

    Then, however, there is the forgotten 4th weather condition. Hail. While Rain, Sun, and Sand all have great Pokemon to make use of it, Hail has a significant lack of them. Combine that with the fact that Ice is a horrible type defensively and the only type to not get hurt by Hail, it is often forgotten to the depths of OU.

    However, there is one saving grace of Hail. It is the weather nobody wants up against their team. No matter what team you face in OU, a severe lack of Ice types means that no team really likes having Hail up against it. Hail is the anti-weather in the weather dominated metagame that is BW2 OU, and combined with the fact that Abomasnow is a fantastic Pokemon in it's own right, being able to beat the other perma-weather starters if played right, Hail is an under-utilized threat in the metagame.

    So, without further ado, I give you, Hail No!.

    Team At A Glance:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Team Building Process:

    Show Hide
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    So, where do I start? Well, knowing I wanted a Hail team, Abomasnow was a must. The only Pokemon with Snow Warning and a fairly decent typing and movepool actually allows it to beat the other weather starters if played right. So, obviously, Abomasnow was my first choice.

    Next, I looked to other Ice types to fit the general theme of Hail. While StallRein and Kyurem tempted me, Mamoswine won out in the end, and for good reason. Arguably the best anti-meta Pokemon there is currently, Mamoswine has potential to utterly devastate opposing teams, and under Hail, it just becomes that much more threatening.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    With Abomasnow and Mamoswine out of the way, I turned my views to a great compliment to them that could effectively nullify some of Hail's brutal weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and Steel. As it turns out, Chandelure really doesn't care about any of those types. That Ghost- Fire- typing and Flash Fire makes Chandelure immune to the two most common move types that are going to be fired at Abomasnow and Mamoswine, and while Steel is much less common, Chandelure resists that as well.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, with Chandelure effectively covering up three of Hail's main banes, I realized I had one still incredibly potent weakness: Rock. As this is the point of any teambuilding that I begin looking towards more defensive options, it turned out to not be that difficult.

    Firstly, for my defensive core, I knew I needed a Steel type, otherwise Dragons could just walk all over me. After options such as Ferrothorn and Skarmory were considered, after a bit more digging I stumbled upon the lovely Water and Steel Empoleon. This gave me much needed resistance to Rock as well as a very useful Water type making it neutral to Fire, and an incredibly effective Specially Defensive beast. Fighting still was a problem, but hey, you can't win them all.

    Next up, I needed some Physical D. Once again, I looked at Steel options, but quickly disregarded them, realizing the last thing I needed was another Fire or Fighting weakness. This is how Donphan came to light. An effective defensive Pokemon with access to Stealth Rock and Rapid Spin, I realized that by adding him to my team I could effectively take hits and remove the pesky Stealth Rock hindering my poor Chandelure and Mamoswine, as well as setting up my own.

    V1:​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now, my sixth and final slot, was the toughest to fill. I already had some potent offensive threats as well as defensive ones, so, what was next? Did I want a phazer? A wallbreaker? A tank perhaps? In the end, I realized that there was a way to both severely reduce my Fighting weakness and make one more Pokemon immune to the Hail damage all in one Pokemon: Sigilyph. Magic Guard and that phenomenal defensive typing (at least in terms of a Hail team) made it a clear choice as a victor, and quickly found a spot on the team to add a valuable 4x resist to fighting, status spreading, and some incredible defensive (and, slightly less so, offensive) prowess. This was also my first version of this team.

    V2:​

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    This is my second version of the team. I have replaced Empoleon and Sigilyph for Rotom-W and Skarmory respectively, as suggested by superpowerdude. I now feel that this team meshes incredibly well together and works incredibly well in the hail. I have also changed up Chandelure's move set in order to make way for these changes.


    In-Depth Look:

    [​IMG]

    Ice Man the Abomasnow (M)@Leftovers
    Grass/Ice
    Snow Warning
    208 HP/252 Atk/48 Sp. A
    Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
    -Wood Hammer
    -Ice Shard
    -Earthquake
    -Hidden Power (Fire)

    Here is the star of the show, Abomasnow. I opted for a physical attacking set in this case to hurt it's biggest rivals, Tyranitar, Politoed, and Ninetales, more effectively. Wood Hammer is a very powerful STAB attack that does good damage to Waters, Rocks, and Grounds that are common on opposing weather teams. Ice Shard gives me a valuable priority STAB attack that lets me effectively take on Dragons as well as nab a quick KO on already weakened threats. Earthquake provides decent coverage and allows me to actually do damage to Ninetales and other Fire types, who is Abomasnow's worst nightmare; Hidden Power Fire rounds out the coverage nicely, being effective at taking out those oh so common Ferrothorn and other Steel types that could otherwise ruin Abomasnow's fun.

    [​IMG]

    Mammoth the Mamoswine (M)@Choice Band
    Ice/Ground
    Snow Cloak
    4 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -Sp. A)
    -Ice Shard
    -Icicle Crash
    -Earthquake
    -Superpower

    The king of the anti-metagame. Choice Band Mamoswine gives me some incredible power and is extremely effective and dishing out the hurt. Ice Shard is your primary attack here, giving Mamoswine some STAB priority and an effective way of revenge killing and taking on Dragons. Icicle Crash was a god send of a move for Mamoswine, allowing it to dish out some incredibly powerful Ice STAB for when Ice Shard just won't cut it for taking out some much more defensive threats. Earthquake is the next STAB move of choice and when combined with Ice is just monstrous to behold, hitting the likes of Heatran hard. Superpower rounds out the coverage nicely, giving Mamoswine some nice T-Tar killing ability as well as hitting opposing Mamoswine hard.

    [​IMG]

    Candles the Chandelure (F)@Choice Scarf
    Ghost/Fire
    Flash Fire
    252 Sp. A/4 Sp. D/252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Calm Mind
    -Substitute
    -Fire Blast
    -Shadow Ball

    Chandelure, with it's highest non-legendary Special Attack stat in the game, makes it an incredibly potent threat, and, being immune to two of Hail's main weaknesses and resisting a third, is a god send to Hail teams. While originally going with a Choice Scarf set, with recent team changes I swapped it out for Sub+CM Chandelure, and to great success. Calm Mind is an excellent way of boosting Chandelure's already amazing Special Attack as well as Special Defense, and once it gets a few up can sweep relatively easily. Substitute is great for getting up a boost or two and scouting my opponent's moves, while at the same time allowing Chandelure to take a hit it otherwise couldn't once in a while. Fire Blast and Shadow Ball are both fantastic STAB moves that even without a Calm Mind boost is sure to cause damage. Fire Blast is great for taking out Ferrothorn, Skarmory, and anything not resisting while Shadow Ball rounds out the coverage nicely by hitting Gengar and Jellicent super effectively, as well as dealing good damage to Rotom-W.

    [​IMG]

    Elephantis the Donphan (M)@Leftovers
    Ground
    Sturdy
    252 HP/4 Atk/252 Def
    Impish Nature (+Def, - Sp. A)
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Rapid Spin
    -Ice Shard

    Donphan, the Don of the Elephant Mob (see what I did there?). With it's decent typing and great Defense, it works well at it's job: a physical wall, rocks setter, and Rapid Spinner. Stealth Rock is there as it's primary purpose: setting up Stealth Rock, and with Sturdy, if you can get him in without taking damage, you're guaranteed to get them. Earthquake is a fantastic STAB attack and even uninvested can hit the likes of Heatran or Volcarona decently hard. Rapid Spin is great at freeing my side from hazards, especially Stealth Rock which this team generally is not a fan of. Ice Shard is mostly there for filler and as a back up against Dragons should both Abomasnow and Mamoswine be out for the count, but honestly, I'm not entirely sure what to put in the last slot. Before Ice Shard it was Toxic, but I replaced it due to never really having any chances to Toxic. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    [​IMG]

    Spin Cycle the Rotom-Wash (N)@Choice Scarf
    Electric/Water
    Levitate
    252 Sp. A/4 Sp. D/252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    -Hydro Pump
    -Volt Switch
    -Hidden Power (Fire)
    -Trick

    The standard Scarf Rotom-W set makes it way on the team with style. Rotom-W rounded out my team's typing issues nicely along with Skarmory, and functions excellently as a revenge killer for the team giving me back a bit of momentum. Hydro Pump is an excellent STAB move and deals some good damage to trouble Pokemon like Heatran and especially Volcarona. Volt Switch is useful for scouting and regaining switch advantage and momentum in a game. Hidden Power Fire rounds out coverage nicely and giving Rotom-W something to hit Ferrothorn or Genesect with. Trick is always useful for crippling those walls or boosting sweepers that could otherwise cause massive problems.

    [​IMG]

    Starscream the Shiny Skarmory (M)@Leftovers
    Steel/Flying
    Sturdy
    252 HP/232 Def/24 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -Sp. A)
    -Brave Bird
    -Spikes
    -Roost
    -Whirlwind​

    Skarmory's sheer physical bulk and phazing ability as well as nice typing fit perfectly onto my team over Sigilyph. It covers up several holes in my common weaknesses as well as providing one very key defensive player. Brave Bird is basically there to hit any Fighting type stupid enough to stay in, and KO. Spikes is the main use of this set besides absorbing physical blows and works very well in conjunction with Donphan's Stealth Rock. Roost is perfect for those times when my opponent almost gets the KO and I need a little health boost, lasting even longer and continuing to phaze like nobody's business. Speaking of phazing, Whirlwind is here for just that purpose. Whether it be to stop a boosting sweeper cold or just racking up entry hazard damage, the phazing will always help out the team.


    In Memory...


    Show Hide
    [​IMG]

    Pingu the Shiny Empoleon (M)@Leftovers
    Water/Steel
    Torrent
    252 HP/252 Sp. D/4 Spe
    Calm Nature (+Sp. D, - Atk)
    -Scald
    -Grass Knot
    -Protect
    -Roar​

    Ah, Empoleon, how underrated you can be. You are often overlooked as a special wall for the pain in the ass known simply as Blissey, but I won't overlook you. Empoleon is a great Special Wall to have on Hail teams, and works well in it. Scald is the primary move of this set, and a decent STAB attack that works wonders for defensive Pokemon thanks to it's burn chance, which can help Empoleon's physical bulk a bit. Grass Knot is a good secondary move that can catch things like Gastrodon by surprise. Protect is a great move for scouting my enemy if I am unsure of what he is doing and deciding from there how to respond, or just giving Empoleon a bit of extra Leftovers recovery. Roar is good for shuffling teams around and getting some momentum on my side, and is especially useful if I'm in a bit of a jam to shake things up a bit and get me back in it.

    [​IMG]

    Psi the Sigilyph (F)@Flame Orb
    Psychic/Flying
    Magic Guard
    252 HP/200 Def/56 Spe
    Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
    -Cosmic Power
    -Psycho Shift
    -Roost
    -Stored Power

    Sigilyph is another one of those Pokemon that just works on a Hail team. A 4x Resistance to Fighting, access to Roost, and Magic Guard lets it survive a long time and stall with the best of them. Cosmic Power boosts Sigilyph's defenses, and after a few it gets to be near impossible to take it down. The more Cosmic Power boosts, the stronger Stored Power gets, too. Psycho Shift is the star of this set, and, when combined with the Flame Orb, is an incredibly effective way of passing around Burns and severely hampering the opposing team, especially since Sigilyph doesn't take damage from the Flame Orb. Roost is Roost, and lets it live even if it's health gets low and live to stall another day. Stored Power works great in conjunction with Cosmic Power as it increases in power for every boost it has.




    Importable:

    Show Hide

    Ice Man (Abomasnow) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Snow Warning
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 SAtk
    Brave Nature
    - Wood Hammer
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Hidden Power [Fire]

    Mammoth (Mamoswine) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Snow Cloak
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Icicle Crash
    - Earthquake
    - Superpower

    Candles (Chandelure) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 30 Spd
    - Calm Mind
    - Substitute
    - Fire Blast
    - Shadow Ball

    Elephantis (Donphan) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Impish Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rapid Spin
    - Ice Shard

    Spin Cycle (Rotom-Wash) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick

    Starscream (Skarmory) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Brave Bird
    - Spikes
    - Roost
    - Whirlwind​


    And so, there you have it. A Hail team that has had some decent success on the Ladder of Pokemon Showdown. However, it is far from perfect, and once hammered out a bit more, could be even more effective than it already is. I appreciate you taking the time to look at this team, and any comments and criticisms are appreciated.
  2. TheStriker

    TheStriker

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2012
    Messages:
    117
    This is a very interesting team and makes perfect use of weaknesses and resistances, however their is one problem that you whole team faces, Volcarona. Volcarona just laughs at your team once it gets a Quiver Dance up sweeping you whole team at +2 which is easy to grab with Fiery Dance. Even at +1 it is nearly impossible to stop which is bad because the +1 Speed from Volcarona is faster than Choice Scarf Chandelure. Chandelure is OHKOed by Volcarona's common Hidden Power Rock and Ground. Ice Shard is your only priority move which Volcarona resists. Empoleon is OHKOed if it runs HP Ground beforeit can Roar it away. +1 almost always OHKOs it because it takes nuetral damage to Fire-Type Moves. I recommend Snorlax. Snorlax is amazing, walling Volcarona completely by breaking its flamethrower. Snorlax can even phaze using whirlwind like Empoleon and is much better because it not blocked by Soundproof. Thick Fat evn cushions your fire-type weakness giving your self an alternative once Chandelure is gone. It can paralyze using Body Slam which is like ParaScald and gets STAB. Reuniclus could be an alternative than Sigilyph because it has Magic Guard, and is one of the fastest(with trick room)! Calm Mind can be used to buff special defense while have excellent HP makes Reuniclus pretty powerful. So, here are the sets. Otherwise this is a great team! Next time, can you make an import/export because it was annoying building this for testing.

    Reuniclus @ Life Orb
    Trait: Magic Guard
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpAtk
    Nature: Quiet
    -Trick Room
    -Calm Mind
    -Psychic
    -Focus Blast

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpDef
    Nature: Adamant
    -Body Slam
    -Whirlwind
    -Pursuit
    -Toxic

    Can you fix this? Some mistakes such as when it said Sigilyph has a x4 weakness to rock needs to be fixed.
  3. assassinfred

    assassinfred

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    692
    I appreciate the rate! Yeah, Volcarona can be a big problem to the team, so Snorlax might be worth a shot over Empoleon. On the Sigilyph I meant 4x resist to Fighting, I don't know why I put Rock but I fixed it either way. Thanks for catching it!

    Reuniclus might also be worth a try over Sigilyph, but I do like the way Sigilyph can work. I'll playtest with Reuniclus and see if I like it, though.

    Also, sorry I didn't add this the first time, but I added an Importable for you guys. This should make it much easier for you to test and give feedback.
  4. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude based wooper #dealwithit
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    1,212
    Hey assasinfred nice hail team you have here!

    looking at your team it doesn't seem to like fighting-type pokemon that much with 4 weakness's to fighting and only two resists. Not to mention that Bulk Up Conkeldurr and despite how rare it is now Bulk Up Scrafty can come in on Donphan, Abomasnow and in Conkeldurrs case Mamoswine and start setting up after each of these pokemon have accumilated a few boosts they are impossible for this team to take down. Not even Sigilyph is safe because Conkeldurrs and Scrafty's almost always have a coverage move that can hit him super effectivly e.g Crunch, Payback, Stone Edge, Ice Punch while Psycho Shift won't be useful with their Shed Skin and Guts abilities. Infernape and Terrakion also look troublesome because the scarf varaints usually both carry Stone Edge which this team hates because of their 3 rock weaknesses, while they both also carry strong Fighting-Type stabs as well.

    To help remedy this problem i suggest Skarmory>Sigilyph Skarmory gives your team a good physical wall that can wall these fighting-types all day aside from Infernape. He also gives you a more reliable sponge then Empoleon to take on dragon-type attacks. Because Empoleon lacks any real method of recovery while Skarmory has Roost. Skarmory also provides your team with its second phazer which is good to stop set up sweepers and spread hazard damage. Brave Bird is the stab of choice coming from 120 base power you will smash any fighting-type foolish enough to stay in. Skarmory's greatest asset however is his ability to set up Spikes in conjunction with Donphans Stealth Rock to really wear dowon your opponent. Sure losing Sigilyph can be a pain but Mamoswine and Chandelure are still capable of cleaning teams up with their powerful moves.

    If you do decide to go with Skarmory you get much better utility then Sigilyph and also the ability to wall fighting and dragon-types but it leaves you a little open to fire-types. Infernape is still a powerful threat and Volcarona also looks a bit threatening to help against these problems i suggest Choice Scarf Rotom-W>Empoleon Rotom-W makes an excellent revenge killer and is also a good pokemon to use against rain teams should they get their weather up some time in the match. He can beat Infernape and Volcarona by using Hydro Pump and even has Trick to cripple Volcarona, Blissey and the no.1 most annoying pokemon for stall teams to face Reuniclus. With no Stealth Rock weakness and an immunity to Spikes and Toxic Spikes Rotom-W is a more effective revenge killer then Chandelure despite having less special attack. He also gets the infamous Volt Switch so you can switch out whilst simultaneously dealing damage. The loss of Empoleon isn't really to bad since Skarmory preforms a similar role of a bulky steel with a phazing move.

    Now that you have got Rotom-W scarfed Chandelures role is a bit redundant. Seeing as you don't have Sigilyph your team also has no set up sweeper. This issue can be easily fixed by using Calm Mind Chandelure>Choice Scarf Chandelure This effectivly gives your team a late game sweeper and a powerful special attacker as well. The idea of this set is to come out late game set up a few Calm Minds and sweep. Thiers a few different options for moves on this set but i think Calm Mind/Fire Blast/Shadow Ball/Substitute is the best move set for this team letting Chandelure use its daul stabs which also have great coverage in OU.

    Good luck with the team i hope i helped!

    Sets
    Show Hide

    [​IMG]
    Skarmory @ Leftovers | Sturdy
    Impish | 252 Hp / 232 Def / 24 Spe
    Brave Bird | Spikes | Roost | Whirlwind
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Choice Scarf | Levitate
    Timid | 252 SpA / 4 Sp Def / 252 Spe
    Hydro Pump | Volt Switch | Hidden Power [Fire] | Trick
    [​IMG]
    Chandelure @ Leftovers | Flash Fire
    Timid | 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Calm Mind | Substitute | Fire Blast | Shadow Ball

    Tl;dr
    Show Hide


    Skarmory--->Sigilyph

    Rotom-W--->Empoleon

    Chandelure
    .Calm Mind Set--->Choice Scarf Set



    ~Superpowerdude
  5. assassinfred

    assassinfred

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    692
    Thanks for the rate superpowerdude! I'll definitely give those suggestions a try and see how things work out! You are right about Conkeldurr being a massive thorn in my side so Skarmory just might be worth it.

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