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Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by Aerrow, Sep 19, 2010.

  1. Aerrow

    Aerrow hunter
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Nov 24, 2009
    #297 Hariyama
    Typing: Fighting 
      Ability 01: Thick Fat
      Fire and Ice-type moves deal 50% damage.
      Ability 02: Guts
      Attack raises to 1.5 times when induced with a status (BURN, PARALYZE, SLEEP, POISON, FREEZE). BURN’s effect of lowering Attack is not applied.
      Ability 03: Encourage
      Attacks gain power, but lose their secondary effect.
      Base Stats:
      HP: 144
      Atk: 120
      Def: 60
      SpA: 40
      SpD: 60
      Spe: 50
      Level-Up Moves:
      Lv1: Brine, 
      Lv1: Tackle,
      Lv1: Focus Energy,
       Lv1: Sand-Attack, 
      Lv1: Arm Thrust, 
      Lv4: Sand-Attack, 
      Lv7: Arm Thrust, 
      Lv10: Vital Throw,
      Lv13: Fake Out, 
      Lv16: Whirlwind, 
      Lv19: Knock Off, 
      Lv22: SmellingSalt, 
      Lv27: Belly Drum,
      Lv32: Force Palm, 
      Lv37: Seismic Toss, 
      Lv42: Wake-Up Slap, 
      Lv47: Endure, 
      Lv52: Close Combat, 
      Lv57: Reversal, 
      Lv62: [M484]
    Egg Moves:
    Faint Attack
    Helping Hand
    Cross Chop
    Wake-Up Slap
    Bullet Punch
    [M469]Wide Guard
    Focus Punch
    [M498]Payment Plan
    Learnable TMs: ,
      TM06 - Toxic, 
      TM08 - Bulk Up, 
      TM10 - Hidden Power, 
      TM11 - Sunny Day, 
      TM15 - Hyper Beam, 
      TM17 - Protect, 
      TM18 - Rain Dance, 
      TM21 - Frustration, 
      TM23 - Strike Down,
      TM26 - Earthquake, 
      TM27 - Return, 
      TM28 - Dig, 
      TM31 - Brick Break, 
      TM32 - Double Team, 
      TM39 - Rock Tomb, 
      TM42 - Facade, 
      TM44 - Rest, 
      TM45 - Attract, 
      TM47 - Ankle Sweep, 
      TM48 - Troll, 
      TM52 - Focus Blast, 
      TM56 - Fling, 
      TM66 - Payback, 
      TM67 - Get Even, 
      TM68 - Giga Impact, 
      TM71 - Stone Edge, 
      TM78 - Smooth Over, 
      TM80 - Rock Slide, 
      TM83 - Cheer Up, 
      TM84 - Poison Jab, 
      TM87 - Swagger, 
      TM90 - Substitute, 
      TM94 - Rock Smash, 
      HM03 - Surf, 
      HM04 – Strength
    Without access to an attack boosting move such as Swords Dance which thee other members of its fighting brethren use, Hariyama had to resort to becoming a tank and supporter, its offensive capabilities suppressed. But now, generation 5 has given the sumo fighter a new trick; a new ability, Encourage which will automatically power up Hariyama’s attacks at the cost of its moves losing their secondary effect … but who said this was a bad thing? Now, with Encourage, Hariyama is free to use its strongest fighting type (Next to focus Punch) move, Close Combat without worrying about those nasty defense and special defense drops every time it uses Close Combat. Below is a set that might be able to fully exploit Encourage’s effect on Hariyama’s offensive capabilities.

    Hariyama @ Life Orb/ Leftovers
    252 Atk / 128 Def / 128 SpD
    Encourage Ability/ Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Payback
    - Ice Punch

    Both a Life Orb and Leftovers can be used on this set; if you want the extra power, go with a Life Orb but if you to prolong Hariyama’s life, use Leftovers. Since it doesn’t make much sense investing in Hariyama’s mediocre base 50 speed, the EVs have been spread over attack and its defensive stats for bulk; also an Adamant nature is used for the maximum damage output. The Moveset Is quite simple; Close Combat for a reliable STAB move, Stone Edge for Flying types that resist Hariyama’s STAB fighting type attack, Payback for ghosts, etc and Ice Punch is there for decent coverage with the rest of Hariyama’s moves.
    ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■ ■
    Feel free to post comments, suggestion and anything else concerning how you feel about Hariyama’s role in the generation5 metagame. Will it be a decent attacker or will it stay to be a tanking Pokemon in the depths in UU? Let me know what you think!
  2. maniac200


    Jan 26, 2010
    Encourage only makes secondary effecs with A CHANCE of doing things go away.
  3. Ferdie


    May 27, 2007
    Hariyama is cool but there is too much competition. All the new fighting types make it hard for Hariyama to finds his spot.

    Gaining 1.5x powered Force Palm, Ice Punch and Rock Slide is pretty neat but won't help Hariyama too much. I'd rather use Thick Fat 'cause where Hariyama really shine is as defending fighting type.
  4. Deck Knight

    Deck Knight PillowmaGod
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    May 27, 2005
    Not sure where the notion Hariyama can't boost its Attack came from. Like every Fighting type, it has access to Bulk Up.

    Incidentelly, Hariyama has the perfect moves to use with Encourage, Cross Chop and Stone Edge. It's at the cost of their higher crit chance, but 150 BP Cross Crop and Stone Edge are no laughing matter.

    This of course relies on Encourage actually boosting these moves with high crit chances and just stuff like Rock Slide and elemental punches. Honestly, the entire ability really needs more research.
  5. asiano


    Aug 18, 2010
    Hariyama will probably be more useful with max HP
  6. Garganator


    Jul 27, 2008
    Unfortunately when you want to use Encourage, then Roopushin outclass it with higher attack and their bulk is really similar, so Hariyama looses advantage also here. I think the only thing which makes Hariyama NOT outclassed is his Thick Fat ability. I think in this Gen with so many Bug and Fire types Hariyama may find a good niche in countering some dangerous threats like Hihidaruma, Urugamosu (resisting both of his STAB attacks) and still checking other stuff like Tyranitar, Shubaroga, etc. Also if Hail new effects are true (boosting 1,5x power on Ice attacks and physical defense on Ice pokemon), then Hariyama fins another good niche here. In Gen 4 Hariyama was also mainly defensive Tank and I don't think it'll change this Gen.
  7. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    I believe those were tested and found to be false.
  8. kalamadude


    May 19, 2010
    Hariyama has no stat up moves? My UU team built around Bulk Up Hariyama begs to differ. He is a BEAST after a few bulk ups. Taking paltry damage even from super effective physical attacks. So much so that Thick Fat is even unnecessary. Often the first instinct against a bulk up-ing Hariyama is Will-o-wisp or (even better) Thunder Wave. BAD MOVE.
  9. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 3, 2007
    I think that set doesn't entirely get the potential of Encourage on Hariyama. It actually augments Hariyama's defense as well by giving it STAB Close Combat to hit stuff with without worrying about losing its ability to tank hits. It's still a tossup over Thick Fat but it gives Hariyama a lot more offense so that its free to invest EVs in its defensive stats.

    Haryiama @ Leftovers
    Ability: Encourage
    80 HP / 252 Atk / 172 Def / 4 Spe, Adamant OR
    80 HP / 172 Atk / 252 Def / 4 Spe, Impish
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    The first spread has a ton of power in both attacks. Close Combat 2HKOs Skarmory with the first spread, for example.

    The second spread lets it tank hits all day while still packing perfectly reasonable power, 2HKOing Sdef Skarm and company. Rest and Sleep Talk actually are mostly there to keep the PP of both moves full, since with Sleep Talk you'll not burn though that 8 PP so fast. The spread switches into any Tyranitar with complete impunity while scaring the crap out of anything that comes in, since not much likes to take Close Combats from even 300 x 1.5 Attack.

    The main thing to remember is that this ability makes Payback much less effective. Its primary move against Ghosts is completely gone. Stone Edge's boost in power makes up for it, though.
  10. Thorhammer


    Jun 18, 2008
    That doesn't appear to be the case.
  11. cim

    cim happiness is such hard work
    is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 3, 2007
    It doesn't augment defense by upping stats, it augments defense by making Close Combat a viable move on tank sets. Before, Hariyama had difficulty competing with Machamp who had a 100 BP STAB move that hit 100% of the time, while Hariyama had to choose between Cross Chop, Close Combat, or Force Palm, which all had drawbacks. Now Hariyama can play "tank" in the truest sense of the word very well.

    Hariyama is one of the few Pokemon that gets more mileage from boosting Defense and Special Defense than HP, thanks to the large disparity between the respective base stats.
  12. cmurph


    Jun 11, 2009
    Encourage doesn't work for close combat dude. The whole point is that you exchange a positive secondary effect for a boost in power. It wouldn't get rid of a negative secondary effect and boost power. That would just be absurd
  13. Noble Cactus

    Noble Cactus

    Jul 24, 2010
    As far as a tank Hariyama goes, how would Whirlwind (or that new Fighting-type throw, if he learns it) work to switch something out if you feel you can't handle it?
  14. Panthera


    Mar 9, 2009
    I don't see offensive Hariyama being worth hyping up outside of maybe some weird Bulk Up sets. It's still going to be best as a tank, probably staying quite similar to how it was in 4th gen - nothing amazing, but capable of checking some very nasty specific opponents. With some bug and fire types being added who look pretty scary, it might find some extra mileage if its bulk is sufficient to let it absorb their hits and figure out a way to take them out in return (not too hard given its access to Whirlwind and unusually high attack for a defensive Pokemon).
  15. LouisCyphre

    LouisCyphre heralds disaster.

    May 10, 2010
    No love for Belly Drum and Makuhita's new egg move, Bullet Punch?

    Belly Drummer
    Encourage @ Life Orb / Leftovers
    Thick Fat @ Leftovers

    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe

    ~Belly Drum
    ~Bullet Punch
    ~Close Combat / Brick Break / Force Palm

    Either use Wish support or get him in on a resist - Thick Fat helps here - and Drum on the switch. Hit faster threats with +6 Bullet Punch; slower threats eat +6 Close Combat or Payback. Fighting / Dark will mangle anything that survives +6 Bullet Punch, such as Steelix, Forretress and Skarmory. Instant 160 power priority is not to be overlooked. These moves, however, don't have the best synergy - Hariyama really wants Drain Punch to go with this.
  16. Flareon


    Jan 16, 2010
    Hariyama's low speed and special defence are what hold him back
  17. The Pokemon Pimp

    The Pokemon Pimp

    Jun 14, 2009
    Bullet Punch is interesting, hopefully that could be a staple on some of the more...offensive sets of Hariyama.

    Unfortunately, Roopushin was introduced this generation and takes a defensive role as well with better priority and a significantly higher base attack.
  18. leingodf8


    Oct 1, 2010
    Meh, hariyama should stay a tank i think. Thick fat lets him beat most of the biggest and baddest fire types in the game, resisting both stabs from urgamoth, as well as easily beating heatran and shandera. But encourage is his newest tool that's actually decent, he will hit damn hard with it provided critical boosting moves get a boon from encourage. Another problem with the wall is that nageki got added, and he gets overhead throw and mountain storm to abuse

    O and btw, never max out hariyama's HP. Its pointless, you gain a whole lot more survivability by pumping it into his much lower defenses. Why do you think blissey goes 252 Def before bothering with HP.

    Don't give me this low SpD crap, his SpD is just as solid as his Def. Here's a quick point for ya, 160/252 Careful hariyama will never die to Alakazam's timid life orbed psychic. A 252/252 careful Machamp can barely pull this off, and 252/252 Careful roopushin will only just survive about 60% of the time. Hariyama is one of the best mixed walls available to fighting types, only having real competition with nageki. As an attacker, hes outclassed mind you
  19. R_N

    is a Forum Moderator Alumnus

    Feb 21, 2010
    Doesn't Machamp have 25 more special defense?
    I suppose Hariyama has more HP, though.
  20. Khan!!!


    Jun 20, 2009
    Haryiama @ Leftovers
    Ability: Thick Fat
    252 hp / 252 def
    - knock off/force palm/seismic toss
    - whirlwind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    a sturdy phaser when you have entry hazards up, knock off to further cripple, force palm for some dmg and chance of para, or seismic for damage.

    Haryiama @ Leftovers/Life orb
    Ability: Guts
    252 atk / 252 hp
    - Sleep talk
    - Stone edge/Rest
    - Close Combat
    - Payback/Earthquake

    come in on a sleep inducer and use sleep talk +3 attacks, or use rest +2 attacks if you want something more reliable. you can also use a more defensive spread if you want to survive longer.

    Guts+rest talk seems pretty nice on hari
  21. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed Please leave.
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Jun 12, 2009
    Is there any defensive sets that Hariyama can run in an open tier environment? I feel as if Hariyama's not fit enough to warrant walling in pre-Ubers because of all the hard-hitting attacks going around and his apparent lack of recovery besides Rest.

    One of the sets he can run effectively in an open environment is his Anti-Lead set. Fake Out + Guts + Status Orb prevents sleep, and with the Guts boost, you have the ability to 2HKO almost any lead you see (Hippowdon, Swampert, and friends being the exceptions). I've been running his lead set in success:

    Item: Toxic Orb / Flame Orb
    EVs: 252 Atk /178 SpD / 80 Spe (80 Spe to outrun Machamp and Tyranitar)
    Nature: Adamant
    ~Fake Out
    ~Close Combat
    ~Ice Punch / Stone Edge
  22. Chozo


    Apr 3, 2007
    Hariyama got Bullet Punch in 4th gen, just FYI.

    I tried running a similar set in 4th gen and it's...not very good in practice. Bullet Punch with +6 attack behind it sounds great, but that's only roughly as powerful as Garchomp's Earthquake or Scizor's Bullet Punch after a Swords Dance: nothing to sneeze at, but not really the level of payoff you want for sacrificing half the health of a slow Pokemon that relies heavily on its HP to take hits.
  23. The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

    The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

    Jul 4, 2008
    Try this:

    Held Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
    EVs: 252 Atk, 128 Def, 128 SpD
    Ability: Encourage
    Nature: Adamant
    ~ Brick Break
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ Payback
    ~ Ice Punch

    Brick Break and Ice Punch are going to dent a lot of stuff, especially with the Encourage and Life Orb boost. Wish support wouldn't be a bad idea since he can keep punching holes in the opponent. Problematic opponents include Slowbro/Slowking and Spiritomb if you use this set, although nothing resists all 4 moves here. Houndoom is a good offensive partner for being able to rip through Slowbro/Slowking with STAB Dark Pulse and get a Flash Fire boost from Will-o-Wisp from Spiritomb before roasting him with a Fire Blast.
  24. Darkamber8828


    Dec 28, 2009
    Doesn't Force Palm hit harder with Encourage than Brick Break?
  25. The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

    The 1 and Only Lady Gaga

    Jul 4, 2008
    In case you didn't notice, Brick Break also has a side effect of breaking screens, which is nullified with Encourage but boosted by 30%. Brick Break has 75 base power while Force Palm has only 60, meaning to say Brick Break hits harder.

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